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This is where I cross the line.

razorSHARPE
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This is where I cross the line.

Earlier today, I'm at my school gym, sitting on the sidelines chatting it up with other people as we all await for a pickup game to finish. Of course, the usually discussions of Lebron, Durant, "Who has the best hops", the best conference, etc came up. All which lead up to the discussion of Kyrie Irving. One of the dudes tried to convince me that Kyrie is a candidate for "MVP". Now, I know there are many fans of Uncle Drew (myself included) on this site, and the kid was entitled to his opinion, but GIVE ME A BREAK.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1970039_o.gif

The Cleveland Cavaliers are currently 14-34 (.292) in the Eastern Conference. I can never recall a player ever hoist the MVP trophy on a lottery-bound team, let alone not even make the playoffs. This not to slander Kyrie Irving. The kid is doing his damn thing and will be the Cavs will be a force to be reckoned with (as long as they build around him correctly), but he is in no way, shape or form MVP candidate....yet.


razorSHARPE
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Another question for all of

Another question for all of you. What do you feel are the proper requirements to be in the MVP race/talks?

bloodshy
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Yea...

I agree. But this is almost too obvious to post about.

The MVP is between LBJ and KD. Anyone else is an irrational thought. It's that simple.

*My opinions on MVP criteria are that it should go to the best player. I've never bought into "the best player on the best team" idea. I just don't like that. It causes you to give MVPs to great players like Malone and Barkley when they were clearly not as good as MJ. Similarly, LBJ was the best two years ago, but it went to Rose instead. I like a meritocracy. If the best player is the best player for five years in a row, so be it. Let the awards reflect that.

Generally, being the best player ensures your team is elite, but the best player is frequently not on the team with the overall best record. If a player has great stats on a bad team, he's never the MVP. In a star-based league like the NBA, being the best always is closely connected to wins, even if the rest of your team is terrible.

Ny2daDeathOFme
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carmelo anthony

You don't consider melo a MVP candidate? Or tony Parker?

Chilbert arenas
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You should have not even

You should have not even entertained the conversation, but do you get as upset as me when people chant "MVP''' for Kobe when he's at the free throw line? I mean they're still 3 games under .500.

Lebron's Hairline
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Chris Paul? The way the clips

Chris Paul? The way the clips look without him is showing his true value, Tony Parker is a dark horse IMO.

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I certainly agree with your

I certainly agree with your point but missing games never helped anybodies cause when it comes to winning MVP. His value is showing now for sure..but it shows more on the court than off.

bloodshy
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I must disagree.

I love Paul and Parker and both are having great years. But LBJ and KD are better and are each having career years. Reasonable minds can disagree, but I think this is a clear two-man race. Here are the stats:

Paul: 16.6ppg, 9.7apg, 3.5rpg, 2.6spg, .1bpg, 26.15PER (Team: 34-16)

Parker: 20.1ppg, 7.6apg, 3.0rpg, .9spg, .1bpg, 23.52PER (Team: 38-11)

KD: 29.4ppg, 4.4apg, 7.5rpg, 1.6spg, 1.2bpg, 29.15PER (Team 36-12)

LBJ: 26.7ppg, 7.0apg, 8.6rpg, 1.7spg, .8bpg, 30.61PER (Team 31-14)

Lebron's Hairline
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It's not all about stats, if

It's not all about stats, if that was the case than DRose shouldn't have won an MVP; Parker and Paul can make this race interesting as CP3 has the clips relevant and they were #1 in the west until he hurt his knee, Parker has been balling despite the nagging injuries the spurs are having.

bloodshy
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Who said it was all about stats?

Above on this thread I mentioned my preferred criteria when choosing an MVP and I didn't even mention stats. However, stats are important if they are meaningful. Here, the stats of each of these elite players is meaningful. None of them play selfish basketball and each has led his team to a similar position at this point in the season. However, stats tell us that the individual performances of KD and LBJ are superior to everyone else, since most of the other data is similar, equal or uncertain.

Moreover, you are right about DRose. He shouldn't have won the MVP. He won it because LBJ made "the decision." DRose had a great year, but he was an inferior player to LBJ during the season and during the playoffs. He had a better record during the season, though not by much. Otherwise, LBJ was thoroughly his superior that year.

I think the MVP should be awarded based on merit. If the best player in the NBA remains the best for 10 straight years, give it to him because he deserves it. MJ lost three MVPs to Malone(x2) and Barkley during years when MJ was the better player. I was a fan of Malone so it made me happy. However, in retrospect, MJ should have won the MVP almost every year he played. He was simply the best player and the stats back that up. Now we have KD/LBJ who are clearly the best players, which again is backed up by stats. I'm not a fan of giving it to someone else simply to add variety to the process.

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I agree 100% but I will tell

I agree 100% but I will tell you now, Durant will win it this year for the exact reasons you listed about MJ, mark my words.

bloodshy
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I'll buy what you're selling.

I think you're exactly right on this one. I think KD's gonna get it this time, though LBJ is the best again this year. However, this is the closest someone has come to legitimately (through pure individual merit) unseating LBJ as the best player in the NBA in several years.

razorSHARPE
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I "entertained the idea"

I "entertained the idea" because the pickup game was taking too long and I needed to occupy time.

Chilbert arenas
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Oh I understand that I would

Oh I understand that I would have just said "you're out of your mind, next topic''

@Lebron Hairline, yes CP3 is certainly in the discussion,but it's a two horse race at this point and the way he's been playing Lebron is starting to close that gap but doubt he wins it since it's getting old

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I don't get how CP3 should be

I don't get how CP3 should be in the conversation when he is missing a lot games again this year.

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Perhaps the kid was a noob

Perhaps the kid was a noob amd didn't know you have to be on a winning team to get the MVP. If I'm not mistaken, nobody has gotten the MVP while being in a team below the 5th seed.
He was probably trying to say Kyrie has been one of the best players in the NBA this season, and I would agree with him.

razorSHARPE
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No...He clearly stated that

No...He clearly stated that Kyrie Irving is an MVP candidate.

ballaj334
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Carmelo has to be in the

Carmelo has to be in the conversation as well

BigChamp12
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MVP Kd or Bron

Melo, Parker, and Chris Paul can be in the discussions

But the race is really only between Lebron and Kevin Durant...

Chris Paul is important to his team succeeding as we have witnessed lately, but not the MVP of the league.

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The CP3 thing shouldn't have

The CP3 thing shouldn't have to be on the floor playing to be MVP ?

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Lebron James should be MVP.

Lebron James should be MVP. Period.

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LeBron won't win it, he

LeBron won't win it, he deserves to but it is Kevin Durants turn to win one, the voters will have "voter fatigue" and not vote for LeBron even though it should be his.

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not even close - LEBRON ALL THE WAY

No question its Lebron - Kyrie is not even close. Put Lebron on the Cavs and the Cavs are instantly a top team and a threat to go all the way. He did it in 2007 with perhaps the absolute worst supporting cast in the history of all sports. He carried a dismal cavs on his back all the way to the finals and eventually lost to the spurs. Kyrie is good, but he is nowhere near LEBRON. I'd say Durant is a close second for MVP, but Lebron is just a beast.

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i dont think the mvp should

i dont think the mvp should be looked for a guy on 1 of the best elite teams. this is the case in many situations tho cause ussually the best player is going to make that team pretty damn good. But i think that the mvp could be someone on a 4 or 5th placed team. For example if somebody averaged like 30 10 5 for the bobcats and they made the playoffs barely in an 8th seed then i think that guy should get the mvp cause theres no way the bobcats should even be in the discussion to make the playoffs. of if the pacers somehow get a 2 seed in one of the years to come(not this year) paul george could wind up winning it someday(too early in his career tho) just my opinion...I think that as long as the heat finish 1st place and lebron dosnt slow down its gonna be hard for any1 else to DESERVE it over him...even durant or paul

BasketballJunkie224
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PERFECT example is the year

PERFECT example is the year derrick rose won it....he wasnt the BEST player in the nba but the bulls should've neverrr gotten a 1st place seed..rose carried them all the way to the #1 seed...so basically it dosnt have to be the best player, it could be the player with the biggest effect. I think that it just so happens that lebron(the BEST player) keeps winning it...deservingley so

ItsVictorOladipo
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In 1962 Oscar Robertson

In 1962 Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double for the entire season (30.8 PPG, 11.4 APG, 12.5 RPG), his team finished with a 43-37 record

Also in 1962 Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50.4 PPG and 25.7 RPG and his team went 49-31 (11 games behind the 1st place Celtics)

IN 1963 Wilt averaged 44.8 PPG and 24.3 RPG, his team finished 31-49

In 1973 Nate Archibald led the league in scoring and assists (34 PPG, 11.4 APG), team record 36-46

In 1985 Isiah Thomas put up 21.2 PPG, 13.9 APG and 2.2 SPG for a Pistons team that finished 46-36 (17 games behind the first place Celtics)

In 1987, Michael Jordan averaged 37.1 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 4.6 APG, 2.9 SPG and 1.5 BPG, the Bulls went 40-42

In 2003, Tracy McGrady averaged 32.1 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 5.5 APG and 1.7 SPG, the Magic were 42-40

In 2006 Kobe Bryant led the league in scoring at 35.4 PPG and also had 5.3 RPG, 4.5 APG, the Lakers went 45-37

In 2009 Dwyane Wade averaged 30.2 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5 RPG and 2.2 SPG and 1.3 BPG (more PPG, APG, SPG, BPG and with a slightly higher FG% than LBJ), and his Heat went 43-39

If none of the above players won MVP with much better performances on much better teams than Irving, why would Irving be a candidate?

He probably will be a MVP candidate one day, but not this year

Entropy
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I think if the spurs are seed

I think if the spurs are seed #1 then Parker can win it. I don't think it would be the right decision but i could see it happening like d-rose' MVP season.

THe main reason people did give lebron the MVP is becuase they thought he got too much help from wade and bosh. Which is fair enough, but they need to keep things consistent. I think that is the main thing, CONSISTENCY.

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The MVP is almost always a

The MVP is almost always a player who not only dominated individually, but also who's team dominated and was very successful. That is why Lebron and KD are the unanimous front runners, with Tony Parker and Melo lurking, and Time Duncan, CP3, and Kobe as long shots.(I'm not saying Kobe is atop the MVP race, but he's in the top 10 if we were to make a list regardless of how pathetic his team has been, that's all I'm trying to say.)

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ItsDwightHoward

you brought realism with that post...and may I add, without checking, Moses Malone is the only player I can recall who has won MVP with a losing record. 40-42.

I am sure that there is someone else who done it back in the old days...but lets just use Moses as example. He was the best player in the league at the time he won.

That year he:

led the league in offensive, rpg and total rebounds
was 2nd in points scored and PPG
was 5th in FGs made
was 2nd in min played
1st in FT attempts
2nd in FT made

also its highly unlikely that the Cavs win 40 games this year.

if your post didnt put it in perspective...then this one should.

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