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Where is THE CENTER?

nthegoodlife
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Where is THE CENTER?

As a fan of real post play, are their any centers in the next few classes that have the potential to bring back "Real Post Play"? I'm just curious, cause personally I'm sick and tired of hearing from idiots who talk of how dominant DHoward is. Thanks


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No. Center is an overlooked

No. Center is an overlooked and underplayed postion at the college and highschool level. Maybe the kids from UNC and the Lopez twins will help the center crop rise.

D Hamp
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Here's the real truth. There

Here's the real truth. There aren't any real centers anymore. As college and professional basketball has evolved, the game has fundamentally change. 20 years ago, Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Zach Randolph, Tim Duncan would have been centers. However, they've become power forwards who now spend more time away from the basket than posting up and positioning themselves in the paint. So the center has become a lost position. A space to plug anyone 7 feet tall to grab a few rebounds and alter shots. Just an astute observation on my behalf.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

sheltwon3
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Lol Dhamp you are so Modest.

Lol Dhamp you are so Modest.

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The game is getting so fast

The game is getting so fast and players so versatile, most player don't want to be in the post as much. I mean there are still some nice players that do but it is not a big deal as it once was. A center nowaday is needed on the Defensive end and for catching lobs.

nthegoodlife
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Eddie Curry...

Eddie Curry should've been dominant though and he's only 27 now. To bad he never did anything though. So what the consensus guys, is Oden our last hope?

mjayb77
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DeJuan Blair

The closest thing there is to that classic dominant post player in college basketball is DeJuan Blair. Unfortunately Blair is only (maybe) 6'7" so he will have to translate as a Power Forward at the next level. He may be able to keep his post presence by going to a team like Chicago where Joakim Noah is used more as a 4, but has the length of a Center.

ch15r36is
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I'd like to get some clarity

I'd like to get some clarity on the question. I'm just not sure what you are looking for in "Real Post Play."
If Dwight Howard and his 21-14-3 and his Defensive Player of the Year award doesn't satisfy your need for "Real Post Play" then it's hard for me to tell what you are looking for.
David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Hakeem all spent significant time playing a face-up game away from the basket much like Yao, Duncan and Pau have in this generation.
How about guys like Al Jefferson and Brook Lopez? They seem to rely on more pure post-up games, rather than relying more on brute force like Shaq and Dwight.

D Hamp
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First of all, Howard isn't a

First of all, Howard isn't a center. He doesn't have one post move. He dunks and that's all. So I can care less about his inflated stats. He blocks three shots a game...... all from 5 feet 10 guards. He never blocks a shot from someone his own size.

Secondly, he shouldn't have won the defensive player of the year. That's a joke. Chuncey Billups perhaps for all he's done for Denver. Um, Artest and Kobe (who should be the MVP) also deserves consideration.

Meanwhile, there aren't any more centers. The game is no longer played through the paint so it isn't necessary. Howard is a power forward.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

Hale
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DHAMP

DHAMP...the biggest idiot the world has ever seen...except for skip "I hate Lebron" bayless. Howard never blocks anyones shot other then a 5 10 guy? Hahaha yeah right. Chauncey, kobe for defensive player? You really are stupid. Kobe win MVP? Better surrounding cast, wosre record, worse numbers then LeBron. Says it all right there. Again DHAMP the biggest idiot the world has ever seen.

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I have to disagree with you

I have to disagree with you Damp because most of the top of all time centers did not have a lot of post moves. Most of the players that we say well good in the post were power forwards. Centers for the most part of long tall strong and need maybe one to two post moves and some counter moves. Dwight Howard is still learning and he is learning from Ewing and has shown so moves. Does he still need to work on some more yes but he does have a decent post game. Oden will get there. We all knew it would take a minute. It took Howard a few years to be this dominate. Everyone knows it takes a while for a big man to develop. Also since Oden is not the focal point of the offense his numbers looks worse than past center prospects.

D Hamp
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Attack me names all you

Attack me all you want yupyup!

1. Kobe made all defensive first-team a few days ago, so am I really that far off!!! He shuts people down.

2. Kobe should've won the MVP. The Cavs did have the best record in the league; but only over the Lakers by one game and the Cavs play in the East... the Junior Varisty team!! Also, when the Lakers played Cleveland, they won 2-0!!!

3. Steve Nash (whose never played defense) won back to back MVPs and Kobe had way better numbers, but critics said Kobe shot the ball too much. So, now that Kobe passes the ball and isn't selfish, you say he doesn't have the numbers. YOU'RE A CLOWN.

4. What post up move does Howard have. He dunks. HELLO! And most of his block comes from guards.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE ON THE WORLD'S GREATEST BASKETBALL PUNDIT, KNOW YOU STUFF!!!

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

D Hamp
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Sheltwon, I'm not going to

Sheltwon, I'm not going to come after you. Just read my first post. Most power forwards today would have been centers 20 years ago, but the game evolved.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

bron42
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dhamp needs to stick to doin the ricky bobby

dwight howard never blocks people his own size? are you kidding? all of lebrons blocks r from behind on small people but dwight blocks anyone tall or small. Not to mention, howard is still young, and working on post moves. Hes got alil runnin hook shot with both hands. so thats a start, and until people can stop him from dunking, who cares.. Even the greats (outside of maybe duncan and the dream) didn't come in right away with top notch post moves and they went to college. And chauncy didn't deserve any DYOP and neither did kobe. Check dwights numbers, teams score almost 15 points less when hes on the court and outside of yao, other centers/forwards rarely abuse him. billups helped spark the nuggets but hes not lockin anyone up. hell he doesn't even guard the other pg, Dahntay jones does since billups can't keep up with them at this point. and kobe for dpoy this year is just crazy. Both deserve mvp votes but not DPOY. Artest deserved more credit, ur right there though. Alonzo mourning wasn't known for his post moves but he was still a dominant center. shaq just dunked everything too. The fact that dwight averages a double double for his career with as you say NO POST moves just shows how dominant he is and can be. If i can only dribble wit my right and you still can't stop me from goin to my right, then thats more your fault than mine. same goes for dwight and his dunking.

I'm not really gonna smash dhamp cuz he has a point but its kinda misled. Ya, most centers suck now for a few reasons.

a) AAU and &$#%#&@! like that hypes guys up who are just bigger than their comp and really suck. So they never develop game outside of just bullying people.those would be your eddy curry/kendrick perkins/derek character types

b) everyone thinks their a pg now. You have 7'0 high school kids tryin to bring the ball up, etc...back in the day if you were over 6'8, coaches didn't let you touch the ball outside the paint. These are your ryan andersens/yi jians/ etc..

c) guards get all the glory. If you've ever done a basketball camp, their ALL guard dominant for the most part. Guards wanna show off for coaches and big men are just left gettin the rebounds. So the easy way to fix that is for your big man to start trainin like a guard. it helps him but waters down the center position.

d) alot of "centers" aren't built like that anymore. Skinny guys like KGs bodies can't really handle all the banging of a center spot. not to mention euro guys

ch15r36is
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Kobe

"So, now that Kobe passes the ball and isn't selfish, you say he doesn't have the numbers."

Kobe had his lowest assist total since 99-00 this year, I believe. He only shot 21 times a game this year, though.

D Hamp
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Bron42. I see you with the

Bron42. I see you with the Derrick Character shoutout. I like that one. Also, I started to mention how guards get the glory, ESPN highlights etc, but I didn't want to be long winded.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

bron42
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P.S

We all know nash and dirk didn't deserve those mvps.

Kobe didn't get it this year cuz his overall numbers were down (dwade had the best numbers of the 3 overall) and his team is stacked more than lebron and wade. Plus come on, everyones gonna ride lebron so he was winnin it no matter what the reasoning.

joecheck88
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yea dwight howard dunks all

yea dwight howard dunks all the time. he catches lobs and thats all he does. so when he pins his man and gets the pass all he has to do is dunk. pinning your man is a post move, drop stepping to a dunk is a post move. if nobody can stop you from dunking why have post moves. when he spins off his man for lobs, that is a post move. howard is a developing big man but to say all he can do is dunk is ridiculous. as far as the shot blocking goes, ok he only blocks guards but he still led the league. why didnt anyone else block 5 foot ten guards and lead the league in blocks. i think d howard is doing something right.

bdoody42
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D Hamp seems narrow minded

D Hamp.

I hope you don't mind me talking in here. LOL.
First off why do you hate on Dwight Howard? He just became the 5th player ever to lead the NBA in rebounding and blocks in the same year.

There are also a few other centers who maybe just need sometime to develop into what you guys consider a traditional center.

Yao Ming, Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, and Shaquille O'neal.
These players are big men who have back to the basket moves.
The game is changing and people have to learn to accept it.

Don't worry all I won't call myself the best basketball ball since Hubie Brown lol.

D Hamp
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1. I don't have anything

1. I don't have anything against Dwight Howard. The topic is what happened to the NBA center. So, if I didn't do a good enough job explaining to the world, then please enlighten me. I think I hit on most of the reasons why centers are gone, and if I didn't others have. The game used to be played through the center. It isn't any longer.

2. Howard is really a power forward (and please read my other posts). He's OK. He's just BIGGER than everyone else. I'm not mad. Shaq was bigger than everyone else. They are just bull dozers.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

Hale
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DHAMP

I never voted for Nash, anyone who plays in the D'Antoni system puts up inflated numbers (chris duhon). Junior varsity my ass. They had 3 of the top 4 teams record wise. KNOW YOUR STUFF...retard. Yes you are off, Kobe doesn't go all out of defense cuz he saves some up for his offense why should he get an award he only puts half his effort in? That blocking guard statement is absolutely ridiculous. You might be the dumbest person on the planet for thinking that. Do you think LeBron only dunks on guards too? hahahahaha Your welcome. I never said Dwight has post moves either. So basically everyone of your arguments has sucked. And call me a clown but I still won this argument, meaning you lost to one. Sucks for you.

D Hamp
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You've said one bright thing

You've said one bright thing all day, that D' Antoni systems gives false impressions. Congrats on passing to the fourth grade. Ha ha ha!!! Now, you mean to tell me the Eastern Conference isn't the JV squad. Ok, so the Lakers have wanted to play the Denver Nuggets instead of the Charlorlette Bobcats four times? Come on now, I taught you better. You can almost win 50 games in the West and not make the playoffs. You could win 35 games in the East and make the playoffs. Step your game up bro. And I if did a bad job explaining what happened to the center postion, then tell me, because I think I did a pretty good job. HA HA HA HA.

P.S. You started this with the name calling. I was nothing but respectful to everyone. I respect everyone's opinions. But you attack, you better know what you're talking about.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

alphamale310
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dhamp

let me get this straight...you think Kobe should have been MVP? Kobe and Chauncey should have won DPOY over Howard? And Eric Devendorf can contribute in the NBA?

Hubie Brown would slap you across the face!

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dhamp

you say the east is the JV? Look at what happened to some of the teams in the west this year.

Houston: Major Injuries (T-Mac, Artest missed time)
San Antonio: Dealt with injury all year (Duncan, Ginobili)
Golden State: Complete facelift
Phoenix: We all know what happened to them (Amare, Steve Kerr!)
New Orleans: No Chandler
Utah: Missed Boozer most of year

the west isnt the murderers row from a few years ago anymore. even Portland didn't have the center they envisioned. meanwhile, as was stated, the East is very strong at the top.

ezmoney707
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I have to agree with Dhamp,

I have to agree with Dhamp, even though he makes him self sound arrogant, Dwight is not that great of a center as most people perceive him to be. When this man can string together some post moves and be able to man up on his own man holla at me. How do you have center on your team that you can't rely on to get you easy buckets. The difference between Dwight and the other bigs of the past is that they could score anytime they wanted and in the 4th quarter when you can't double team they would make you pay. I have seen Jared Jeffries lock Dwight down for 3 straight quarters during one game this year. That's crazy. If you watch dwight, and see him make his move to the basket he goes no where if he is not directly under the basket. He can fix this over time, but people that say he is a great center right now and i don't see that. Watch Yao. That guy is the best center in the league and he gets no credit for it.

alphamale310
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ezmoey707

i agree 100%. Yao is a stud. Best center in the game. He's automatic at the line, and def reliable in the 4th quarter. anyone who ever accused him of being soft in the past is dead wrong. He's one of my fave players and i appreciate him a little more everytime i see him play or do an interview. I'm sure the Chinese, his fam, and the city of Houston are extremely proud, and rightfully so. Hopefully he can learn to avoid foul trouble!

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I have to agree with dhamp

I have to agree with dhamp with the reasons for why the center is lost right now. and for all the arguing about Howard blocking guards i have to say every shot blocker in the league gets most of there blocks on guards on the ball shot blocking is a lost art at all levels. Also Howard does need to work on his post moves but he does work on them a lot he is trying to develop a consistent jump hook as well as a turn around jumper, but all that being said not to many guys put up his numbers at 22 years of age or had a polished game.

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DHamp, I said I agreed with

DHamp, I said I agreed with some of the stuff you said but to knock a young Howard who is playing well at a young age and deserved his award is wrong. I was right about the fact that most bigs that we call great did not have that many post moves. Howard is on his way to being on that level. Orlando does not even use him that well/ He does need to polish his post moves obviously but so did Shaq at that age. he also need to work on his passing. Defensively he is on point though and blocking guards that are driving to the basket is something a big should do. He is protecting the paint and he is also strong enough to limit the bigs he guards. Kobe has played better defensively this year because he doesnt have to worry about Offense as much. I still think Howard deserved the award though. I do know that Kobe has been robbed of awards a lot.

ryan27
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Actually, the East was

Actually, the East was better than the West last year. Head to head, the East won. And I think the Lakers would rather play the Nuggets than the Bobcats because they seem to lose every time they play. Lebron was easily the MVP this year- More points, assists, rebounds, fg% and wins (in a stronger conference).

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The Bobcats thing is a match

The Bobcats thing is a match up problem. You can look at the playoffs and see that outside of 2 or 3 teams the East is weaker than the west top 10 teams and climbing. The West does have the worst team in it but most of them are a few pieces from being pretty good. Team in the East are not put together well/

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Historically great centers

Historically great centers have always been hard to come by, so I dont get how the Center are lost (they where never really there in the first place). Dwight Howard is a center and a very good center, the dude is only 23 years old. How many centers have put up an avg. of 17 and 13 for their first 5 years, who cares if he has NO POST MOVES he is getting the JOB DONE!!!! BTW Yao Ming is the best center in the league....

Hale
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DHAMP

everyone agrees with me so we all know who is right. Nuff said.

nthegoodlife
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EZMONEY

I agree 100% about Howard. He doesn't have the moves of the other all time greats, thats why he's not A GO TO GUY in the 4th. How many of you think 5 years from now, we'll be talking about how much Dwight has evolved his post moves? So far he's shown little to no improvement. Stat wise he doesn't need it, but to establish himself as a "Go To Guy", he will need to.

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Original post

I'm with you on the content of the ORIGINAL post...before it deginerated into name calling and who should have been the MVP. I am also a fan of good post play and while D Howard is the ALPHA of all post players in the league right now, his offensive post play does not conjur up the good old days of Kareem trying to get his hook off against the Dream and Ralph Sampson or Ewing and Ric Smits going at each other and putting up 30+ apiece. Going a little further back Jack Sikma with the reverse pivot (does anyone even try that move anymore) and Joe Barry Carrol with that funky turnaround J. You just dont see that stuff anymore in the NBA and I miss it (I still love the game though).

edoom06
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speaking of post play

speaking of post play...what ever happened to the small forwards that used to score in the post. Benard King (personal fav), Adrian Dantley, Mark Aquirre, James Worthy and a host of others. That used to be a prerequisite for small forwards coming into the league....now its a rarity.

bdoody42
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Eastern Conference is JV?

I have a question if they eastern conference is the Jv, why did they have the better record when the east and west teams played each other last season? Now that comment is obviously incorrect.

Some people seem think they know everything, when they don't really know much at all.
Dwight Howard is starting to develop a couple of low post moves. A couple, not nearly enough by the way.
He has developed a right hand mini hook shot. He also can swim baseline rather well when player overplays him the that right hand. Thats about all he has, but if he went to college for 4 years wouldn't he now just be a rookie?

bdoody42
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Typo, sorry.

I typed swim inside of spin sorry.

D Hamp
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Some of you guys kill me.

Some of you guys kill me. How many wins does it take to make the playoffs in the Easten Conference. OK, now what about the West. Nuff said! Ha ha ha ha ha.

And for you YupYup, you said you won and nobody agrees with me! You should really reread some of these posts. They're are people who agree with me!

And about Eric Devendorf. That's another conversation. If you wish to talk about his more, than start a new post. I would be more than happy to talk about his clutch shooting and good point guard skills.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

D Hamp
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I just looked this up on

I just looked this up on NBA.com.

The Detroit Pistons made the playoffs in the East with a 39-43 losing record.

The Utah Jazz barely made the playoffs in the West with a winning record of 48-34.

Tell me, which is the better conference? And last year, the Golden State Warriors didn't make the playoffs with 50 WINS.

And Dwight Howard is overated.

DHAMP....... I MAY BE CLOSE TO PASSING Hubie Brown anyway.

nthegoodlife
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DHAMP...

I like that comment, "How many wins does it take to win the EAST." Thats actually funny and a good point at the same time.

NYK2010
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KOBE for MVP yeah right.

If Kobe was the MVP he wouldn't have lost to the Bobcats late in the season that cost the Lakers the best record in the NBA. Last year he beat out Paul for the award because of the best record. Just to let you know the West Conf. is very overrated teams like the Jazz, Hornets, Suns, Mavs play no D. Not to mention 5 of the 6 worst records in the league are from West Teams.

DHAMP....... the most intelligent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown. Thanks I needed a good laugh, don't insult Hubie by putting your name anywhere near him.

alphamale310
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dhamp

so you're going to base conference strength solely on the record of the 8 seed? Hubie would never do that. He thinks much more analytically than that. Hubie is a voice of reason. Hubie doesnt base his arguments around which players he likes or which teams are his faves. Hubie is humble. I'm offended that you would even compare yourself to total basketball genius...

nthegoodlife
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NYK2010

Those teams you named are teams with amazing records even though many of them were plagued with major injuries to important players. The CAVS may get to the finals in only 12 games, yeah the East is just incredible. BTW the Lakers swept the Cavs.

D Hamp
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If we compiled a pro team

If we compiled a pro team from this Web site, we'd make the playoffs in the East. HA HA HA.

I'm sure we could come up with 35 WINS.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

NYK2010
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nthegoodlife

3 of the top 4 records in the league are from the East. The West teams had great records becaz they beat up on the bad teams as well u forgot to mention that. I never said the East is incredible its been a weak conference for many years, but the West is overrated. The Lakers sweeping the Cavs means what you actually think the Lakers would sweep the Cavs in the Finals if they met. The Knicks swept the Hornets what does that mean. BTW Cavs went 26-4 against the West, the Lakers went 21-9 against the East. Someone stated on this website the East was better than the West Head to Head, you do the math.

alphamale310
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dhamp

i'll play for your team as long as i get my 30 shots and have the ball the majority of the time. I gotta get mine!

DHAMP......the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

D Hamp
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Since you're stuck on

Since you're stuck on Devendorf, I just started a new post for him. Leave this post to what happened to the NBA center.

DHAMP....... the most intellegent basketball thinker in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

nthegoodlife
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NYK2010

The Lakers sweeping the Cavs means what it means. Both games were great and both teams played to WIN those games. Thats the difference, both PLAYED TO WIN. Remember the Bobcats swept the Lakers, who cares though. I'm not saying the Lakers will sweep the Cavs, but I will say it will be a GREAT series.

alphamale310
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nthegoodlife

i dont want to read too much into regular season matchups (after all the Patriots did beat the Giants in the reg. season) but weren't the Cavs 6-0 in the previous 6 meetings? all i'm saying is none of it means anything this time of year.

DHAMP....the guy who thinks Eric Devendorf is an NBA player.

bron42
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wrong

dhamp makes one good point and then talks crazy the rest of the time lol.....and as much as you guys knock dwight, and say yao is a stud...yao is ineffective on defensive. So just as much of a liability as you try to make dwight on offense (even though he averages like 20 a game so obviously he knows what hes doing) guys go right at yao and bully him. What good is a 7'6 center who is money at the line and can shoot yadda yadda if he can't get stops when the game counts? hes like a taller dirk. Just think how many times yao has been dunked on compared to dwight. I'd rather have a center who shuts down on D but doesn't score that much than a scoring center who can't get stops. AND dwight gets you points. Sure he doesn't have the dream shake or anything but like i said, he still gets you 20 points. And he went straight from high school is another thing people overlook. Yao has been a pro since he was like 15 lol And at the same age dwight is, yao SUCKED...so dwight has plenty of time to develop post moves and hes still already dominantes both ends of the floor better than yao right now. I don't want my center pullin fadeaways.

Secondly, overall the east is better..the top teams in the west are more dominant but the east as a whole is better. I mean look at the east. From top to bottom all the records are close. In the west, outside the top teams, teams like the wizards were about 20 games behind them. meanwhile the bobcats didn't even make the playoffs and they were what, 5 games behind the heat? how far were the clippers behind the jazz? Not to mention, outside of the spurs, who in the west ahs won rings recently? pistons, boston, heat.

luvnbball
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Joined: 05/09/2009
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you guys are carzy!!!

basketball has changed...we have scoring pgs, 3 point shooting centers and power forwards...dwight howard is definitely a center...he coulda been a center in da 70s 80s 90s...thats like saying alonzo mourning wasnt a center...dwight howard is a beast and dominants the paint...he deserved defensive player of the year...you guys act like he is not suppose to block guard shots...he led the league in blocks and rebounds for a reaso...i dont see how you cant call him a center...and i like lebron kobe and dwade but this year lebron had a better year...team had a better record and his stats were great...yea dwade had better stats but his team suck...when lebron team sucked a couple years ago he average 31 points 7 assist and 7 rebs and went to da championship...dwade will win a mvp eventually and kobe is going to win at least another one before he is done...i guess the kobe fans are mad when nash and dirk got mvp those years and kobe shouldve got it those years but this is totally different...and yea lakers beat the cavs twice this year but last year they lost twice and kobe got mvp so that really dont mean anything...people have off days and matchups are key...its going to be a lakers cavs championship anyway so we get to see who had the best year entirely including the playoffs...everyone has there own opinions but try not to be so bias...i can tell who is everyone favorite player and team from the comments...everyone knows it was lebron year to get mvp...from the beginning of the year everyone was saying he was going to get mvp and he played like a mvp...

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