what were the warriors thinking(Udoh over Monroe)
Everyone thought they should have picked Monroe with that 6 pick, he was the best choice for them and best avilable player.I knew right away Udoh was a dumb pick.Now Monroe is killing it, and Udoh still sucks.
I guess they will have to try and make up for that lousy pick by going for Kanter in the draft.
Basketball is more than highlights, yet there are so many people who don't grasp that notion. It stunned me the way people thought Monroe wasn't athletic enough to play in the NBA. The idea that a layup is somehow inferior to a rimrocking dunk never seemed to make sense, but then again I have seen the Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and Pistons win titles not the Clippers, Warriors, and Wizards. That is on me, I missed all those Finals games featuring Tyrus Thomas and Birdman. I need to get the dvd of those ones, but I just can't find them. It still baffles my mind how for part of the 2010 year how people had him rated. ESPN and DX had Monroe rated behind not only Udoh, but Alabi, Aminu, Larry Sanders, Jerome Jordan, Stanley Robinson, and Quincy Pondexter. Heck, Givony had him behind Charles Garcia for a while. This site had him behind Hassan Whiteside. It makes me cringe.
Because he was more athletic than Monroe. They tend to take that over sill alot of times and think if you are more athletic you have more potential. Scouts and peopel on here still think that actually and will continue to think that no matter how many times a player more skilled out performs a player who is more athletic. You see how people are still on the Deandre Jordan and Javell McGee badwagon over more skilled bigs like Lopez and Hibbert
Udoh has been developing slowly and I feel was taken to be a more defensive option that Monroe. Greg has been given more playing time than Udoh so far and is certainly a better scorer but hindsight is always easy with any draft.
Udoh reminds me of Bo Outlaw. He won't give you gaudy stats but he should be a good defensive anchor.
Not a bad pick, but they have to utilize him effectively. With Monta, Steph, David Lee, and Dorrell Wright, they needed more defense, not offense. Right now, I think they hav a nice core with an explosive backcourt, a very good rebounding power forward in David Lee, a shooter in Wright, and a couple of solid role players in Udoh and Amundson. They should take the best player available this year. Especially if Biedrins can get healthy again, they already have a pretty good starting lineup.
I am happy for Greg Monroe. He's a good player who can do a lot of things. But his ideal position is power forward (just like David Lee).
Hopefully last year's draft worked out well for both teams.
And every team still struggles to matchup with Pau, Odom, and Bynum. Tim Duncan with one good knee and a frontcourt cast of an old McDyess, Blair, Bonner, and Steve Novak have the #1 seed. Rebuilding teams must be using those championship blueprints from teams that never won them.
They took udoh for defense and he was also injured for most of the season. But Monroe is more skilled on offense but udoh is a better defender
:p look at the results http://therookiewall.com/blog/2010/06/21/2010-nba-draft-who-ya-got-ekpe-...
If Udoh's 55 games qualified for stats, his 6.8 fouls per 48 would be in the top ten in the NBA. He commits fouls at the same rate at DeMarcus Cousins. He does block shots, but the value of a blocked shot can be misleading. The Wizards, Knicks, Pacers, Timberwolves, Warriors, and Clippers are among the top 13 teams in blocked shots. It does not make them good defensively. Boston is 29th and Atlanta 28th in blocked shots, both are excellent defensively. Think about it, a blocked shot does not necessarily result in a stop. Taking a charge or drawing an offensive foul does.
Monroe has been a pretty good defender even though he doesn't block as many shots. Hindsite only aplies for thouse who thought Mornroe should have gone after this kid. Ive always said that potential and athletic ability is overrated as far as how good a player is or will be.
Lets remember these guys are only rookies as well and they are't the players that they will end p being in there prime
for defensive purposes.
While Monroe is a young highly skilled bigman, the Warriors needed toughness and defense in their frontcourt. And Udoh brings just that. The Warriors are a high scoring team, and we really didn't need another offensive minded player. I think at his prime Udoh can be PJ Brown type of player with a much higher shotblocking rate, and I think the Warriors would gladly take that.
Don't forget Udoh missed the first month and a half due to injury. It takes a rookie a little time to hit his stride and Monroe has 21 more games under his belt. I'm not taking anything away from Monroe, he's played very well lately, but he started off pretty slow too ( 5 points and 5 rbs per for the first 2 months of the season).
Udoh has had some solid games as of late (12pts 6 rbs 3 blks and 2 steals against OKC) and people have mentioned his shot blocking. It's too early to call GS stupid for not picking Monroe, Udoh could still develop into a good player.
"Udoh has had some solid games as of late (12pts 6 rbs 3 blks and 2 steals against OKC) and people have mentioned his shot blocking. It's too early to call GS stupid for not picking Monroe, Udoh could still develop into a good player."
Last 5 games for Udoh- 23.8 minutes, 3.8 points, 4.0 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 1.2 blocks, 0.4 steals, 3.8 fouls, 1.0 turnovers, and 31.8 FG%
Post All-Star Break for Udoh- 24 games, 21.7 minutes, 5.2 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 1.9 blocks, 0.4 steals, 3.2 fouls, 1.0 turnovers, and 41.5 FG%
Last 5 games for Monroe- 36.0 minutes, 14.6 points, 9.4 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 0.8 blocks, 2.2 steals, 3.4 fouls, 1.4 turnovers, and 61.9 FG%
Post All-Star Break for Monroe- 21 games, 33.7 minutes, 14.3 points, 10.0 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.8 blocks, 1.9 steals, 2.6 fouls, 1.3 turnovers, and 58.6 FG%
I stand by my statement, I never said Udoh was better or more productive, but mearly that Monroe has 21 more games under his belt and that you can't judge a career by the end of a rookie season.
Damn Monroe is like Artest already
Yeah, it seems that these days scouts place so much importance on athleticism..Guys like Boozer & Hibbert dropped in the draft becuz scouts said they werent athletic enuff...
I had Monroe rated as the 4th best prospect in 2011 behind Wall,Cousins & Turner and ahead of Favors, becuz Monroe has a Higher Basketball IQ than Favors...I felt Udoh was a mid to late 1st rounder..
You always have to be careful when drafting guys like Udoh & Jordan Hill that blossom overnight
Monroe will def be a good, starter caliber player. Don't know if udoh will ever become more than defensive sub, 7th man, off bench
Udoh was a better defensive player then Monroe coming out, which made him the pick there
"I stand by my statement, I never said Udoh was better or more productive, but mearly that Monroe has 21 more games under his belt and that you can't judge a career by the end of a rookie season."
My reason for posting that is you can't simply pick out game of late and imply that is a sign. If the occasional good game signifies a meaningful turn, then Anthony Randolph is a roundabout.
It is not fair to place too much on a rookie year. Where a player is as a rookie is not where he should be next year or down the road. Udoh could turn into a decent player, but Monroe is already a good player. Monroe is younger, a hard worker, and really bright. Udoh is playing catch up to that guy, and the Warriors should have known that when choosing between the two.
I think it's fair to say at this point Monroe has been better then Udoh, and should be better throughout his career.
Yeah, I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. I think when analyzing a rookie it's a little bit different than an underachiever who got traded to one of the worst teams in basketball.
To be honest I was kinda shocked GS reached for him at #6 too, but apparently it had a lot to do with him showing up in a suit and being very professional and it was a done deal a week before the draft. I had Monroe as the 5th best prospect in that draft and Udoh around 10.
I just get tired of people saying people are busts and terrible players less than 100 games in their careers. The same way I get tired of people thinking guys like Randolph are on their way to 25 11 5 and 2 when they have a good game in a meaningless loss. Sometimes guys just never adjust and are out of the league when their 3 year rookie contract expires, but sometimes guys are vastly different in their 2nd or 3rd years.
Udoh's contributions don't show up necessarily in the box score, but if you look at +/- and adjusted +/-, you'll see that the team seems to play better both offensively and defensively when he's on the floor. He doesn't just block shots, he alters shots, he plays good position and help defense, and he tips rebounds out to other players.
Monroe is also a good player, he's putting up better stats and he has more upside than Udoh does, but Monroe's just not very good defensively.
To be fair, I'll admit I wanted Monroe over Udoh, and wasn't very pleased with Riley when he passed over Monroe, if for no other reason than the fact that Monroe is much younger than Udoh, and thus a better piece of trade bait. Nobody's chomping at the bit to trade for ol' Ekpe, but the comparison of Monroe to David Lee is not too far off; would you want your team's frontcourt to be a Lee-Monroe tandem? That'd be Charmin' soft in the interior.
GSW were raving about Udoh after they had worked him out, I like the idea of showing up in a suit to get drafted higher but they did love his athleticism apparently.
I agree that Udoh did miss a chunk of the season and has only in more recent weeks cracked the core rotation. To label anyone a bust yet is ridiculous but next season will be a key one for him as he'll need to progress. Hopefully if there isn't a lockout, he can get a full pre-season in which could help him hugely.
Monroe has been the one good point in Detroit's season and could actually strengthen Joe Dumars position if he points out that he has drafted a good prospect and can rebuild around him. With the Head Coach there seeming to have lost the locker room almost on a weekly basis and the line up always changing then Monroe has done well in such a stressful situation. I expect that Big Ben has been a good mentor for him and if he cannot learn defence from him then he cannot learn it from anyone.
It will be interesting to see what Detroit do draftwise this summer, Irving seems the logical guy for them to target if they happened to come up lucky in the lottery as other choices are probably SF's or SG's where they are loaded. If they don't get a PG and maybe move Stuckley to SG as seems to be their desire then targeting a C could be the best option and thus Monroe goes fulltime to PF which I agree is his best position. If that works out then the frontcourt could be sorted and they can build from there.
I think you guys are writing him off too early. He is an excellent overall defender and brings a lot of energy. Monroe will probably be more productive and put up better stats, but Udoh could be more valuable due to his defense. Udoh seems to be a player whose ceiling is a worse rebounding Joakim Noah, which isn't bad. I am not saying he will be as good as Noah, but he could provide energy and value to the Warriors.
It's another case of the team looking to fill a need instead of taking the best player available. They took Udoh in hopes he can become great defensive player. He might be the better player on the defensive end between he and Monroe, but no where close to the player. Some might even say now that they could and should have taken Ed Davis aswell.
of his mpg and is 1 of the best shot blockers per minute in the NBA. His defense is really really good. That being said Monroe's offense is REALLY FN GOOD. But its not what we need. Udoh is like a bigger Chuck Hayes/Poor mans Ben Wallace with better offense
You have to look at it and take yourself back to last years Baylor basketball elite 8 run. That's all you heard was how Udoh was a very talented defensive presence. The tourney run really surged him to being a top 6 pick. While on the other hand Greg Monroe and Georgetown I believed got bounced in the first round. With that said Golden States really wanted to shore up the defensive front with Udoh, it basically came down to need over talent. I compared this to when Tyrus Thomas led LSU to the Final 4 and he was the hot commodity of the 2006 draft. The Bulls who I still don't know why traded one of the best players in the draft in LaMarcus Aldridge, a more consistent talent for a guy who just peaked in the tournament in Thomas, who by the way beat Aldridge and Texas in the Elite 8. In conclusion Monroe still got drafted high, but yeah Golden State should of never had a tournament crush on Udoh, and should of looked more closely on the body of work that Greg Monroe put in.
While I can live with Udoh being drafted over Monroe due to the "need" approach, I would have preferred Larry Sanders or Ed Davis. I was never a huge fan of Udoh during the draft. But he has provided the defense the Warriors were searching for, I just wish it would have been Sanders or Davis if they were going to make such a reach in the draft.
Just to clarify, we had Monroe rated 5th and Udoh rated 17th. We had Monroe rated too low initially but not when it counted ;) Terrible pick by the Warriors. Udoh is older than Brandon Wright.
burningflood and nateoak, Keith Smart has spoken quite a bit this season about wanting to protect Udoh from better and more experienced big men this season. It is well chronicled, and up until very recently has been the way in which Smart handled him. The Biedrins injury changed things, and that has resulted in this most recent dip in performance.
This is where the advanced metrics of basketball are very much misleading. The Bulls perform well when Derrick Rose is off the court, but Rose is never off the court when the opposing team has all its starters on the floor. In the most important minutes of the game, Rose is always on the floor. The way in which the Bulls construct their rotation (most notably Keith Bogans starting all 77 games and Kurt Thomas starting 37 games despite neither being among the top players on the Bulls) is a response to the way in which Rose’s abilities put his teammates in a position to succeed. With a creator like him, Bogans and Thomas are golden if they just play good positional defense and hit a wide open jumper when it comes their way. It is not because the Bulls are better with him off the court. I have mentioned this with Jonas Valanciunas and Bismack Biyombo with their European clubs. Their coaches are aware of their limitations and only use them in selective spots to maximize what they do well and hide their weaknesses. You are asking an 18-year old with Valanciunas’ frame or Biyombo’s level of experience to fail if you put them out there against proven players with more bulk and skills. This is what good coaches do. They work with what they have and try to figure out how to piece it together to maximize their players. It isn't just Udoh, this has been the case in Chicago with Asik, Milwaukee with Sanders, and Utah with Favors. It also is why people have to be really careful when looking at per-40 stat lines. Not all minutes are made equal.
Greg Monroe has progressed to where there is limited protection. He starts, and has guarded the likes of Amare Stoudemire and Dwight Howard. Now, the Pistons have been an incredibly dysfunctional team this year. They have talent, but it is hard to figure out which guys other than Monroe want to be there. They had the practice boycott, players refusing to go into games, and there is just an overall feeling of disinterest for most of the veterans. You see it in how the defense has turned Warrior-esque over the past month or so. It is not fair to pin it on Monroe. He is not Dwight Howard, but he is not a bum on that end.
Guys like Boozer and Brand many times
He doesnt show up in the box score other then +/- which can be misleading but not when it is very consistent . Hes a great defender
I thought they should have picked Monroe but Udoh will be pretty solid by next year. Injuries hurt your production a lot.
Never pass on a talented Georgetown big man
there is a reason why it is BigManU
I also think it helped having Big Ben as his mentor. Better situation for Monroe learning from the veterans...
"I also think it helped having Big Ben as his mentor. Better situation for Monroe learning from the veterans..."
I agree. I think Monroe being around Ben and even T-Mac has helped quite a bit.
well im glad the pistons got monroe...
im just glad my pistons finally picked a valuable draft pick
i knew monroe was gnna start off slow, then build up slowly... he has shown a lot of promise
as for udoh, people need to give him time, yeah i know 4ppg and 3rpg is not very good... but the warriors needed his defense not his offense, and thats what there gettin, and he missed alot of games to
he works hard to, he has room to grow
GSW had the 6th pick in the lottery. They should have taken the BPA which was obviously Monroe.
Monroe has been very good the last 3-4 months and especially since the All-Star break, like "BothTeamsPlayedHard" said.
"Post All-Star Break for Monroe- 21 games, 33.7 minutes, 14.3 points, 10.0 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.8 blocks, 1.9 steals, 2.6 fouls, 1.3 turnovers, and 58.6 FG%"
I'd say thats pretty damn good.
when David Stern announced the sixth pick:
"With the sixth pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, the Golden State Warriors select....
Fizer's mind was saying: Monroe, Monroe, Monroe...
....Ekpe Udoh from Baylor."
I was like... "Im sorry... WHAT?! Who????"
Haven't the Warriors learned anything about selecting the defensive shot blocking monster that was; Adonal Foyle in 1997? (Tracy McGrady was the next pick right after).
Kanter is a top 10 pick and GSW has the 11th and a 90% chance of landing it... Kanter most likely wont go past 8... they need a miracle?
To all those saying they picked Udoh because of defense and athletisism okay fine, they still passed up on Sanders and Davis who are both better in those regards (maybe not Sanders but definitely Davis).