share

What should the Jazz do with their depleting options at PG?

The UnderKanter
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 2641
Points: 404
Offline
What should the Jazz do with their depleting options at PG?

Yesterday's game against the Hornets was completely distasteful and unacceptable. There is no excuse for a loosing to a team like the Hornets, but this has happened in many games for the Jazz this year, and I am getting tired of it. This is probably why the Jazz will not make the playoffs this year. They need to play like they did against Memphis every night, not just some nights. The main reason why I feel they play this way sometimes is because of the point guard for the starters, Devin Harris and his play.

I have voiced my opinion several times on this matter; I may sound a bit redundant because of that but I truly feel that the Jazz need to do something with him by the trade deadline. (in about a month from now!) Yesterday the Jazz almost came back and won the game with Harris on the bench and Watson in his place. Several times this has happened for the Jazz. Most recently when the Jazz played the Pacers last week. Jazz were down by as many as 21 points in that game and in the end only lost by 3 because of the inspired play of Watson, and his play led to better play of every one else around him. In that game the Jazz actually retook the lead only to lose it again down the stretch. In yesterday's game, the Jazz never did retake the lead but they did get within 3 before having to foul. My point is the Jazz did their rallying with Harris on the bench.

The Jazz have repeatedly done this like I've said. Sucked with Harris in the lineup and then all of a sudden turn on the pressure once Watson comes in. This is the main reason why Watson is getting more minutes than Harris is even though he (Watson) comes off the bench. He is one of the most valuable players for the Jazz this year (same with last year as well). The problem the Jazz can't keep doing this for the entire season. They can't keep themselves a whole with Harris in there and then expect the claw themselves out once Watson comes in. That has been shown time and time again this season. If the Jazz want to make the playoffs this year, then they cannot do this and they need to find someway to fix it before the playoffs become impossible to make (which is already starting to happen, luckily it is early enough in the season that they can fix this before it is too late, but time is fading fast, meaning the sooner they get this fixed the better)

I hope that after yesterday's game a Harris trade is imminent and will happen by the allstar break, in the meantime though what should the Jazz do? Should they continue to start Harris inorder to showcase his trade value? (which isn't very much IMO, because he not doing very well even when he does start) Or should they start Watson and have Harris back him up. Doing the first suggestion might result in the Jazz loosing more games than they probably should, but it also might help bring in a better trade for the Jazz in the end (might being the key word.) Doing the second one, would undoubtedly get the Jazz more wins. Do you sacrifice wins for losses in order to up someone's trade value? (especially when Utah is already doing so poorly that doing so might cause them to do just as bad they did in 2005, when they got Dwill.)


razorSHARPE
razorSHARPE's picture
Registered User
Joined: 01/27/2011
Posts: 1630
Points: 6400
Offline
For now, start Watson.

For now, start Watson. Harris' trade value must be pretty low right now considering his play, so start Watson and see if Harris can provide quality minutes off the bench. I also cannot currently think of any team that needs/wants Harris.

F_DA_PO
F_DA_PO's picture
Registered User
Joined: 12/14/2011
Posts: 364
Points: 336
Offline
I think the Jazz are gonna

I think the Jazz are gonna cool off a lot. It's a shame because they will be in contention until the trade deadline. They should just try to trade Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. They need to stop blocking Favors and give him full playing time. If they hold onto Al Jefferson and Milsap next year they must really not trust Favors.

r377
r377's picture
Registered User
Joined: 12/28/2010
Posts: 1660
Points: 4667
Offline
There was a thread about the

There was a thread about the suns possibly wanting to trade steve nash. not sure what the jazz would have to give up in return, after all steve prob only has a season or two left before he retires

Mr. 19134
Mr. 19134's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/20/2010
Posts: 3451
Points: 3412
Offline
The Sixers did that a ton

The Sixers did that a ton last year with Lou Williams, who would come off the bench almost every game and bring the team back. This year even with their grear record the Sixers have gotten off to extremely slow starts and just bidded their time until Lou came in and then would go on their run.

I actually wanted to make a post about the Jazz but I couldn't figure out how to explain my thoughts on them because they're a mess. I don't like they way they are set up. Most of this problem is what you alluded too, in that they need a good PG to tie this team together. Until they get that they are going to be a middling team. I just don't understand trading for Favors and drafting Kanter, yet keeping Jefferson and Milsap. One of them should of been traded by now. I'm not a believer in players developing without playing time, that rarely works out. I'm insanely frustrated with Doug Collins for the same reason because Turner needs more minutes to develop if not it could ruin his career.

But the Jazz have two of my most favorite big men prospects in recent years with Kanter and Favors who are both just brimming with potential and simmering on the bench. I've been impressed with both of them this year especially Kanter. From what I've saw Kanter is living up to the expectations I've put on him. I had Kanter as the 2nd best player in last years draft. He is super strong, really mobile for his size, has great hands, and carves out spaced underneath. But with that said I thought the Jazz should of selected Brandon Knight due to their PG situation and Favors. I also believe Favors ultimately would see his most success playing Center because his body is filling out nice and he has the size and girth to be a great C.

With the Jazz roster the way it is now I don't see how they can progress without trading Al Jefferson. They aren't going to get a good PG in return for Harris, they could get one with a 1st round pick, but that would be counterproductive in my eyes. Trading Jefferson for a PG maximizes this rosters potential by allowing Milsap to continue to flourish at PF and letting Kanter and Favors duel it our for minutes at C.

One idea for the future is trading Jefferson to Cleveland. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=78ot3wl The Jazz would get Sessions and Jamison's expiring contract in return, and get a PG and also nearly 20 million in cap space in the offseason which they could use to sign Deron Williams back....Joking although that would be amazing.

Another idea: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7j9nwt5 Jefferson to Golden State for Steph Curry and Biendrins. This gives Golden State their C and a playoff team, and it gives the Jazz their PG of the future is he can keep his ankles together.

One more is: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ttaaep Jefferson to Charlotte for DJ Augustine and Boris Diaw. This gives the Jazz a combination of cap relief and a steady PG for move the team forward.

They are just a few ideas, Jefferson should have no shortage of suiters if they decided to trade him. And although trading him may make the team take a step back in the present it improves their future outlook.

The Scare Crow ...
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 3185
Points: 1005
Offline
Why cant they trade Favors or Kanter for a very solid PG?

I don't get why they are keeping so many good bigs(I Know that sounded weird) but they to add a great Pg if they want to become a very good team, I'd love Harris in a 6th man role...In my opinion they should try to trade one of the young bigs and get a PG...I don't know many teams with Young PG's, maybe The Bucks trade Jennings with his wanting to play in a larger market coming to light, could DJ Augustine be an option at this point, might not even have to trade 1 of the young bigs for DJ Augie...I think Bayless in Toronto makes some sense as they do need some scoring still, Bledsoe could be less available since Billups went down...Maybe a Veteran in Utah makes more sense, I'd love to see Nash or even Andre Miller for rest of this season at least, one post season run for Nash in Utah sounds sweet, Calderon makes some sense too for some odd reason...I always think draft first as that way you don't have to trade away players but the Utah Draft picks are up in the air and the PG class is thin at this point in the Scouting process...

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
ideas

What about trading for Nash? Helluva short term solution.

What about reaquiring D-Will if the relationship isn't too bad between the two and he will resign? That would be wild.

Idk just how available he is but the C's seem to always be shopping Rondo. Maybe hit them up and see what they think about some of the Jazz's young big men and the very average Devin Harris.

3-6 Mafia
Registered User
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 2576
Points: -2206
Offline
i gotta agree with every

i gotta agree with every comment right now. its crazy how they keep such a deep front court with holes in their back...

Weavvv
Weavvv's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2011
Posts: 83
Points: 111
Offline
What you guys have to understand..

This is a team built for the future. Trading for a PG right now (which is obviously their only IMMEDIATE option) destroys the foundation of this team. Yes, they have a log jam at the 4 & 5 positions between Jefferson, Millsap, Kanter & Favors, but that was the point when they drafted Kanter and held onto the other 3.

Their best trade piece is Millsap, who, of the 4, presents the best opportunity to continue to play with this team. He was the Jazz only liable all-star candidate this year. Jefferson would be the other piece, but with his $14 mil salary, he would be difficult to move. The trade propositions by Mr 19134 ^^ are all fundamentally flawed. While they all make sense financially, break them down independently..

Jefferson to Cleveland. While Cleveland would normally be happy to move Sessions, they're probably not so quick to do so now, with Kyrie's sudden concussion problem. On top of that, they're not going to want to move Jamison's expiring contract for a F/C who should be entering his prime (27 y/o) but probably has already peaked.

Jefferson to GS. Hands down, no chance that Golden State trades away Curry (it's real Franchise cornerstone, right now) for another decent F/C who kind of rebounds, and doesn't play defense. (David Lee, anybody?)

And finally Jefferson to Charlotte. Charlotte might actually be smart for making this move.. allowing Walker to take the full reigns at PG, and dishing off Diaw, but Utah will be hasty in making this move. Augustine isn't much of an improvement at PG than Harris, except potentially a better shooter. This team needs more of a distributor.

Even as addressed, Jefferson 'should' have no shortage of suitors, but in reality, he does. Boston attempted to move him, and finally was able to, with half of their roster, for KG. Minnesota kept trying to unload him, and finally did, to Utah, who thought they'd be receiving a missing link in their "pick & roll" with D-Will. Obviously Sloan and D-Will are gone. And while Jefferson isn't the problem this team is having, most oustiders believe he could be the key to fixing the problem they do have.

What Utah should be doing, is staying on course. Sticking with their plan, building through Free Agency, and the Draft.

Look at Utah's future (contracts/picks):
Next year they have Miles & Howard coming off the books, for almost $5mil, with a team option for Tinsley.
ALSO, Harris, Jefferson, Bell AND Millsap will all be on expiring contracts next season, making them MUCH more valuable trade bait next season.

While I agree that playing time for the young guys (Favors, Kanter, Burks, Hayward) is important, it's even more important to build for the future, and not make any risky mistakes or quick thinking moves in desperation.

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
Warriors pick

According to the mock, the Jazz have the Warriors (top 7 protected) pick so they could look to do something with that. How would you Jazz fans feel about Austin Rivers? (only PG worth a top ten pick if he comes out)

Weavvv
Weavvv's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2011
Posts: 83
Points: 111
Offline
Warriors Pick

It's hard to say what the Jazz would do with that pick. It's Top 7 protected this year, and next, and they give up their own pick in the first round, as well. So, there's even a chance they won't have a 1st round pick, this year.
But if it stays in the 8-10 range, this draft is pretty weak on PG prospects (just read the on-going PG Prospects thread). Marshall could be a pick, which might actually be a decent fit for him, as well as Wroten, etc.
Their best opportunity would be to possibly package that pick, and perhaps Jefferson for an up and coming PG, but even looking through team rosters, I'm having a hard time coming up with a decent name that would be on the trading block.

Taylor Gang Mike
Taylor Gang Mike's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/07/2011
Posts: 1318
Points: 1552
Offline
Marquis Teague

Marquis Teague

Weavvv
Weavvv's picture
Registered User
Joined: 10/15/2011
Posts: 83
Points: 111
Offline
The biggest problem with Teague..

Especially in the Jazz' offense, is his learning curve in a half court offense. He still has a lot of growing to do, in that department. With all the weapons around him at UK, he still has trouble being a facilitator. The situation in Utah will not be much different, as he'll be looked upon to fill that role (as Harris has failed to do, and struggled) with the licks of Burks, Hayward, Millsap, Jefferson, Kanter and Favors looked to be the focus on offense.

The Scare Crow ...
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 3185
Points: 1005
Offline
Just came up with a Wild Philly/Utah trade idea

Philly Trades Holiday, Hawes and Nocioni for Harris and Kanter

Sixers still keep a Big Pg in Harris and add a potential Starting C in Kanter, having Lou Williams as a backup is a very good option to have if you move Holiday for the older Harris(Who was an All Star level Pg at one point while playing in The Atlantic Division) Kanter gives the Sixers the future C or a Great Sign and Trade asset when we Amnesty Elton Brand in July(Freeing Up room for a run at Dwight Howard)...

Jazz get a Starter at Pg from day 1 and a very good one to boot, Holiday's favorite player at Pg is deron williams and maybe Jrue could come in and play a bigger role offensively in Utah much like is NBA Idol, having Hawes included in the deal gives Utah a deep big man rotation, Hawes actually stretches the floor and creates space for Favors,Millsap and Favors as opposed to Kanter right now, Holiday would thrive in Utah as lead dog IMHO...

Line Ups after my trade idea...

Sixers

Harris-Turner(really WTF is Collins waiting for)Iguadola-Brand-Kanter-Williams-Meeks-Young-Allen-Vucevic-Brackins-Battie...They maintain a big backcourt with the flexibility to Amnesty Brand and trade Harris in July freeing up the cap and Roster space to bring In Deron Williams and Dwight Howard(both would have to take slightly less the Max, similar to Lebron) again this is a long shot but at the least the Sixers add Kanter to the core or Turner/Iguadola/Williams and Young, if Harris could regain his form from his All Star season it's a steal really...

Jazz

Holiday-Burks(really WTF is Corbin waiting for,lol)Hayward-Millsap-Jefferson-Watson-Bell-Miles-Favors-Hawes-Evans-Tinsley...The keep the core together and add a very young and promising Pg in Holiday, and a good rotation Big man from BYU who could play well with all 3 other bigs in Utah's lineup...Nocioni gives them some cap space to resign Hawes and Holiday longterm...They need a playmaker and Philly could afford to lose one if it brings them back a rock solid Starting C...

Let me know what you guys think...I came up with this trade Idea while rolling a dewbie, so I want some feedback as to how crazy or sane it sounds...

RichieRebel
Registered User
Joined: 05/04/2011
Posts: 488
Points: 677
Offline
Scarecrow

I love that Idea, both teams add positions they really need.

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
Scare Crow

Are you serious? I thought you were a Sixers fan and watched the Sixers. Why would we trade Holiday, an incredible talent at age 21 until June and one of our best draft picks from 1997-2008 (look it up), our only NBA Starter-material Center, and ....well nocioni can go haha for a PG who has proven to not be anywhere near Jrue Holiday's stratosphere and a very very unproven Center?

This might be the worst Sixers-involved trade I have ever seen, read, or heard. Sorry for rippin' ya but dude.

The Scare Crow ...
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 3185
Points: 1005
Offline
Thanks RichieRebel

I Love Jrue Holiday and I'm one of the top 5 Philly fans on this site, Mr.19134/delfam/Apb/Microwave/Mdymes and others being in that same club of die hards...I would find it hard to part with Jrue as he is a very good Pg with lots of potential, we think he could be a Gary Payton or Deron Williams if he maxes out that Potential, that said we have 2 other great passer in Turner and Iguadola, and Harris wouldn't be a terrible Starting Pg in Collins system, hell he might flip that switch again and be amazing, Lou Williams being a great 6th man is what would make me confrotable trading a young Holiday for a slightly more experience player in Harris, but the Sixers real goal would be getting a great young Center prospect, at worst he could even play Pf if we Amnesty Brand to clear space for Howard...If both teams pulled off a trade like this they would both be getting great Young Players at Positions of Need, players with great potential in The NBA...

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
gotta disagree

I think the Sixers would be trading away one potentialy amazing young player and one great young player for one boarderline starting player and one great but unproven prospect.

Born Ready
Registered User
Joined: 05/19/2011
Posts: 59
Points: 17
Offline
brandon knight?

With the jazz having plenty of big men do you think they should of took brandon knight instead of kanter? and shouldnt they deal AL Jefferson for a wing or pg?

The Scare Crow ...
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 3185
Points: 1005
Offline
Apb, my hometown brother...

I just stated that I would hate to part ways with Holiday as a Sixers fan, but I'm also a very down to earth and level headed person who can take things for what they are...

The facts are Jrue is 21 and Harris is 26 I believe, Holiday is cheaper at the moment but will need to be extended very soon, Harris has a short term contract(2 years left I believe)...Holiday at his peak thus far as been a very good albeit young and unproven PG in The NBA, Harris at his peak was an ALL STAR, yes that was a few years back but Harris is in fact more of a proven player at This point in their carrers, as The # 1 Fan in Jrue Holiday's fan club I can admit this...Kanter is a far better prospect than Hawes who just recently began to show up(In a contract year too, shocking) I think Hawes fits in better in Utah than the banger Enes Kanter, like I said he spaces the floor for the other players like Big Al, Paul Millsap and Favors...

I repeat, I would hate to lose Holiday but is he untouchable, NO...If we could move him and land a impact player in the paint I'm open to debate it...

Thinking bigger, trading for Kanter and showcasing him the last half of the season could boast his stock...If the Magic hold onto Howard past the deadline then They will likely work out a Sign and Trade to get back something...Who would you rather take if you were Orlando??? Kanter on year 2 of a Rookie Deal or Lopez coming off an Injury and needing an extension???

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
okay

I can see what you are saying. I respect that view. We just a have different views on Jrue and Harris; this will happen when you talk sports.

CodySLC
CodySLC's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/12/2010
Posts: 1032
Points: 3302
Offline
I think we need to let Favors

I think we need to let Favors and Kanter devolpe by trading one if not both Millsap and Jefferson. Kanter at 19yrs old leads all rookies in rebounds in 15 minutes per game. We have a solid core of young players in Favors, Kanter, Hayward, and Burkes, that all deserve more pt. And will benifit the team in the long run.

I'd also like to see us try and draft Kendall Marshell. Not sure whats going to happen but i wouldnt be surprised to see some moves made at the deadline.

PulseGlazer
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2011
Posts: 1281
Points: 1906
Offline
They could really put

They could really put together some killer packages if they wanted to. Favors and Hayward or Burks has to be enough to at least get GS to listen on Curry, for example. Jefferson and Burks for Lowry would be interesting, as well. With their talent, they can be in on anyone they wish.

apb540
apb540's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/08/2009
Posts: 2343
Points: 1846
Offline
idea

I have no clue if they do, and that's important to keep in mind lol, but if the Jazz had the balls to trade one of their prime assets for Evan Turner, would that be something to consider? Everyone likes to compare him to Penny so let's find out if he can run a team and play PG. Just throwin' it out there.

The Scare Crow ...
Registered User
Joined: 04/17/2010
Posts: 3185
Points: 1005
Offline
I would like to Keep Turner in Philly though Apb...

more so than Holiday at this point with Dwight Howard and Deron Williams out there so to speak...

I think moving Holiday and Hawes for Harris and Kanter makes and ton of Sense...And If we traded Holiday, Turner would likely play PG ala Penny APB, Pair him with Howard and we've got something...

come to think about It Turner could be The starter at Pg if we see him as a better fit than Harris in starting lineup...Meeks or a shooter like him can start off Turner at Sg...surround Howard with Turner and Iguadola in the starting lineup with anybody and thats a top 3 team in the East...

PulseGlazer
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2011
Posts: 1281
Points: 1906
Offline
Penny was an elite athlete.

Penny was an elite athlete. Turner is not. Just stop.

The UnderKanter
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 2641
Points: 404
Offline
Jazz are not trading one of their youngsters & my trade idea

Let's get one thing straight scarecrow, the Jazz ARE NOT trading one of their young players. They drafted Kanter for a reason. They wanted him. He is playing great, even though he is coming off the bench. Why would the Jazz trade him when he is doing so well in just his rookie season? Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not going to happen. The only players that should be on the trading block are Jefferson, Millsap, Harris, and Miles. Not one of the youngsters because they are all playing excellent. The Jazz got them all for a reason. They wanted them. None of them are doing horrible so none of them should go.

With that being said I have thought about a possible 3 team trade with the Sixers and Cavs (as well as the Jazz of course) Cavs receive Harris and the Jazz's draft pick from the Warriors. Jazz receive Sessions, and Iggy, and the 76ers receive Jefferson.

Jazz get a point guard who is a very good distributor, should be a starter in this league. They do end up giving up one of their draft picks, but its looking like the Jazz will get two picks this year. (The Jazz will likely not make the playoffs which means they keep their first rounder that would have gone to the Wolves had they made the playoffs) The Jazz really only need 1 player to add to their young mix. Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Burks, all they really need is a PG who can distribute the ball to them and they are set. So they really don't need one of their picks. The pick from the Warriors is likely to be higher, because the Jazz will probably just miss the playoffs and get like the 13th or 14th pick as result, while the pick from the Warriors should be in the top 10. So chances are the Cavs would want the higher pick (the one from the Warriors.) Sessions would also be a great mentor for whomever they get with the 13th or 14th pick (Hopefully Marshall or Machado)

Cavs get a mentor who can help teach Irving. Some may argue that Harris might not teach Irving anything, but remember Harris was an allstar 3 years ago in Jersey. Maybe he can do better on a different team, one that isn't so dependant on a pure point guard. (I believe that is the only reason why Harris is struggling. He's playing in a system that is dependant on a pure point guard which he is not. So he is trying to be one, but it just isn't working for him because that's not who he is) They also get another draft pick. I truly believe that the asking price for Sessions is a draft pick and a proven player. Cavs get that. Now they can draft Beal and Ross or Rivers and Ross who would both work wonderfully with Irving.

Sixers get a big man that they have been wanting forever. Some may consider Jefferson more of a PF than a Center. However Brand should get amnestied next year, and then the Sixers could put Jefferson at the 4 and just sign a Center in free agency. (Probably not Dwight, but I'm sure there is another good Center that will be on the market next year that the Sixers can compensate with) Also they get rid of Iggy, which they have been looking to do in order to free up playing time for Turner.

The trade works financially. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6mvcv7f All teams get what they want, what do you guys think?

JNixon
JNixon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/14/2009
Posts: 12962
Points: 11537
Offline
I think Kendall Marshall

I think Kendall Marshall would be an excellent fit for the Jazz. I don't know if they'll be THAT patient and not go after a PG in season, but I do think Kendall Marshall fits as good as any PG prospect for the Jazz if they do choose to select a young floor general

RSS: Syndicate content