I dont see Kyrie Irving as the Clear cut number 1 overall guy like some do. I think since Kanter measured near 7 feet in shoes, he jumps back up into the elite category with Irving and Williams. The 3 of them are about equal in my eyes, pretty safe bets to be good players and each has a little bit of star potential. The Cavs need 2 solid starters out of these picks.
Of the 3 of those players, I see Irving as the most replacable. I'm not so sure Brandon Knight won't be the better player down the road. So what I would do is Draft whoever you like more out of Kanter or Williams. Given the Cavs need at SF, I'd probably go with Williams who is a safer pick than Kanter and ready to contribute right away. Minnesota would surprise alot of people if they took Irving, so Id guess that they would take Kanter. Utah Would take Irving, but I've heard that they love Brandon Knight at 3 so you never know. That way, Cleveland is pretty much guaranteed to get a starting calibur point guard, either Knight or Irving, at 4.
If the Cavs take Irving 1, Its very possible that Derrick Williams and Kanter come off the board 2 and 3. Then, there isn't a clearcut guy at a position of need because they already drafted a PG. So you would have to either trade the pick (although who would want it?) or reach for a wing or big man. Vesely, Leonard, Valunicias, Burks, those are the kinds of guys that make sense in that slot and I think 4 would be a pretty big reach for all of them.
Derrick Williams is probably the safest pick and fits their biggest need, but I gotta be honest, Im not so sure that I wouldnt roll the dice and take Kanter number 1, which would guarantee that I can get one of Williams, Irving, or Knight at 4.
I agree. I think the Cavs also need to look at getting Kanter at 1 and then getting one of the point guards at 4.
Yeah, point guards are really important in this league. Ok, Magic has 5 rings, but so does Derek Fisher. Isiah Thomas has 2 rings but so does Kenny Smith. If the Cavs really want to get a point guard who most fits a championship profile then they should take an unathletic white point guard who is a good shooter but not a real creative passer who went to Notre Dame and who has an older brother in the NBA (Ben Hansbrough).
Irving and Knight are both good, but big guys (especially legit centers who can score and rebound, and long, athletic wing players who can drive, play above the rim, and shoot the 3) are arguably more important. If the Cavs take Williams or Kanter at 1, they can still get a point guard at 4. Or, if they take Williams first, and both Irving and Knight are gone, then they take Kanter at 4 to form a great front line (along with JJ Hickson). Then they can get a long-term point guard in next year's draft, or they draft a point guard that falls with their early 2nd round pick.
That would be stupid, because they lose out on the two best prospects(Irving and Williams) there not going to take that risk.
I love the post Canesboy, and I think that has to be a realistic option for the Cavs. I hear a lot of people put guys in tiers. Well if (and that's a big if) your first tier is Kanter, Williams, and Irving, and you think they all have similar upside AND you think Brandon Knight has a good chance of being very good, or close to as good as Irving, then the smart thing to do is take either Kanter or Williams, because one of those PG's is going to be left at 4 (Knight).
Alternatively, you could trade the #1 to Minnesota (who, by Kahn's reaction seems to like Irving). Then you get Williams or Kanter, Brandon Knight, and whatever else the TWolves have to give up to get #1.
"Minnesota would surprise alot of people if they took Irving, so Id guess that they would take Kanter."
I'm pretty sure that every single pre-lottery mock draft had the T'Wolves taking Irving. Also, Utah LOVES Brandon Knight, and they have no reason to take a big because they already have Milsap, Jefferson, Okur, Kirlenko. So, I see either Williams or Kanter slipping to #4, so there really is no point to take either of them over Irving who, in only 7 games in college, completely dominated. In addition to this, you can't forget that the Cavs still have JJ Hickson who was almost a 15 pts,10 reb player in his first year as a starter. Irving is a lock to go first in my eyes, his pass first mentality will make his teammates better, and with the fourth pick i would go with whoever is left between Williams and Kanter (although I don't believe Williams will fit in on the Cavs) or maybe even Vesely.
Under your scenario canesboy, the Cavs could potentially make away with the two top players in the draft.
Only if you assume Minnesota doesn't trade their pick and they pick Kanter and Utah would pick Brandon Knight.
I was just going to post an thread saying this. Ive been saying all year Cleveland would be better off taking Williams and hoping for Knight or Walker to slip to 8th. Now its a given, no matter what if they select Williams they will have two of these guys left on the board to select with the 4th pick; Kanter, Knight, and Walker. If they select Irving I think Minnesota would take Kanter and Utah would take Williams which leasves them choosing from Leonard, vesely, Motiejunas, Valanciunas and the other average picks.
In other words the only way for Cleveland to get two top prospects is by selecting Kanter or Williams 1st.
Utah likes Knight so if you don't take Irving you might lose both Irving and Knight. I'd take Irving one and if Kanter isn't there I'd go Kawhi Leonard #4.
Defense wins championship and Leonard seems like a legit defender of mulitple positions and seems like a hard worker and glue type guy. Him and Irving would give them a bright future.
You raised some interesting points. I'd say that this draft will be extremely succesful if you can get Irving plus one of Williams/Kanter. This remains unlikely, and Utah certainly isn't a lock to pick a PG at 3, so you never know. If they pick Williams 1, even if Minny suprises with Irving, then Utah probably selects Knight, then you could get Kanter. That's a formidable front line for the future: Kanter/Hickson/Williams. However, the prospects of getting a likely legit franchise PG in Irving could be too much to gamble on. This draft could shake out funny, and even if they select Irving 1, maybe Kanter or Williams trickle down.
Now, on to the crazy dreamin part of my post. In Cleveland's mock Thunder dreams:
Jazz trade #3/piece for Rubio
Minnesota sends 2/3 to Cleveland for #4 and 2012 1st round, plus a 2nd rounder.
Cleveland selects, Irving, Williams, and Kanter. 3 years from now and your opponentsare going up against a Kanter/Hickson/Williams front line with Irving at PG. That could be very good.
I'd be amazed if something like happened, but this won't happen, only throwing out ideas to discuss.
Utah doesn't love Knight they have never said a thing about him. I haven't even heard of a workout scheduled for him. I have heard they have a workout with Kanter and are really high on him.
I also agree with what you guys are saying, but if you're the Cavs you got to cheat a little bit, and look a head to next year. Do you really think Williams is going to be better then Barnes, Ghilchrist, Jones, and all the other forwards in the 2012 class? If you do, draft him, but if not then you might find yourself in a tough spot come next draft when the best players available all play the same position as your #1 pick from the year before.
There aren't many centers coming out next year that are worth looking at in the lottery, so Kanter wouldn't be that bad of a pick if they can get one of the point guards (Kemba, Knight, Irving maybe), and they draft one of the much covenant SF next year. Because lets face it, the cavs are staying in the lottery for a couple of years.
I think trying to get Knight and Williams would be the best possible scenario, and I just thought of a way it could work out.
Say the Cavs put out some feelers with the T'Wolves, who we'll assume wanted Irving (seems likely), the Cavaliers draft Irving, so they have a PG sorted, but then the Timberwolves draft Derrick Williams. If Brandon Knight is still available at the 4 then the Cavaliers take him and trade Irving to the T'Wolves for Derrick Williams in a pre-arranged deal. If he's unavailable they can get an Enes Kanter or Valanciunas. This way they get a high upside PG in Irving or Knight either way, and worst case scenario have Irving and Kanter, best case Williams and Knight. This way they end up with a PG either way (something that wouldn't happen if they drafted Williams first overall, as both Knight and Irving could be taken before the #4 pick), and either a SF or PF/C.
If they are real lucky they might convince Kahn to package Martell Webster with the #2 selection and they'll have a SG, plus Minny clears up their logjam at the 2/3 spot, whilst giving them an alternative to Rubio if he decides to screw them over.
Of course it depends on how serious these rumours of the Jazz selecting the Knight are.
Cavs should take Williams at 1 Kanter if avaliable at 4 Norris Cole in 2nd Round and a SG in the 2nd round. If Kanter is not avalible then I think that the Cavs would have the opportunity to take Brandon Knight. This scenario would work best because once Williams is off the board the Cavs like you said would be able to take a PG or Kanter at 4.
Can't pass up on either Irving or Williams.
Derrick Williams is not a safer pick than Kyrie....There is obviously more risk with Williams than with Irving
If I'm CLE, I really take the time to evaluate how much better you think Irving is than the other PGs in this draft. If you think he is monumentally better then take him 1st overall. If the diversity is not as grand as others seem to make it, then go Williams #1 and possibly attack PG with the 4th overall pick.
IMO though, this is the optimal solution (given IMO Irving is not leaps and bounds greater than the rest of the PGs in the draft)...
1st- Derrick Williams
4th- Whoever you like between...Kanter/Valanciunas/Knight/Walker
32- Look to move up a bit or select a PG here if Knight/Walker is not selected at 4. Possibly Shumpert/Morris/Smith/Lee/Cole/Selby/Jackson/Joseph/Mack. If PG has been addressed, then go BPA outside of the PG position.
54- Add a big-time athlete/defender (such as Chris Wright), another big body, or an international prospect to keep overseas and develop.