IMHO, his best fit is Duke especially with the pieces coming back next year (Henderson (maybe), Williams, Singler). He'll have more weapons at his disposal. Coach K will spread the ball out by putting all his wing players on the perimeter thus allowing Wall to attack the rim...it's really a match made in heaven IMHO. When K had playmakers at the point position (Avery, Williams, Duhon) in the late 90's/early 00's, Duke was averaging 90+ points a game. I've heard too he's an excellent defensive point guard...Coach K loves hard-nosed defense players. It's a no-brainer.
That offense won't really help Wall get ready for the NBA though.
It's either UNC's "In-and-Out" offense or Calipari's Dribble Drive. As good as Duke is, I just don't think Wall would have good chemistry with the rest of the team.
I don't see John going to Duke because it's just not a good mix there..........I think he would go to UK if Patterson and Meeks comes back if not then I see him going to UNC for that title.
The statement that Duke's offense won't get Wall ready for the NBA is ridiculous. Roy Williams offense hasn't turned out any stud pro PG's. All it does it create pg's who have no clue how to run the half-court offense. How can you say that his offense helped prepare Jacque Vaughn or Raymond Felton for the NBA? Neither of these guys are great PG's, and neither is Kirk Hinrich. Felton and Hinrich are good players, but they are not going to be the starting PG on any team that is among the top of the NBA. Ty Lawson is a good player, but I seriously doubt if he becomes any better than Felton or Hinrich.
Calipari's dribble drive offense isn't any better. I seriously doubt he helped prepare Derrick Rose for the NBA any better than anybody else could have. Derrick Rose is a physical beast, and unless he had played for some team like Michigan or Wisconsin then he would still probably have been the #1 pick overall and Rookie of the Year.
Coach K's offense has produced PG's Jay Williams and Bobby Hurley. Both of these guards were much better than any PG that ol' Roy has turned out. It's just unfortunate that injuries cut their careers short.
D7H7N...Jason Williams was the number two overall pick!!! What are you talking about? He'll have Henderson and Williams...LOLOLOL! Wall, Henderson, Williams would be on ESPN top 10 plays every night...LOLOL!
BTW...Coach K has been talking to Clifton and Wall all year.
if you read the article John says he will have it down to 3 or 4 schools sometime next week more than likely its UK, Duke, NC State and Baylor being the long shot he said UNC is not really on his list hopefully he picks Duke and Henderson comes back to win Coach K is 4th title
Henderson is not gonna be back aio. Wall would be playing wtih 2 other potential top 5 picks in Henson and Davis if he went to UNC. I fail to see how Duke is much better with their weapons of attacks.
Anyway this seems like a moot point with all the info that is coming out.
The reason Wall is better off with Duke is because their players are veterans who have actually proven that they are good. Singler and Scheyer have already proven that they can be 15 plus ppg scorers in the ACC. That is not mentioning the small chance that Henderson returns. If he returned then you have 3 all-acc caliber players.
Yes, UNC has two "potential top-5" picks, but you forget that at one point in time Josh McRoberts was a potential top-5 pick as well. Ed Davis and John Henson haven't proved crapped so far. Ed Davis was a great role player on a great UNC team, guess what? McRoberts played the same role on Duke's team with Redick and Shelden. Next season we may all find out that Ed Davis can't carry a team. Nobody really knows. That is why he should have taken the cash and left like Marvin Williams did. If Marvin had stayed he never would have went any higher than he did by leaving after the championship.
Also, John Henson is all of 200 lbs, and while talented it's no guarantee that his body will keep developing to allow him to truly meet his immense potential. Henson thinks he can play SF, but he has the game of a PF. Unless, he develops that strength then you can forget top-5 down the road.
So in a nutshell, Duke is better because they have proven commodities and if Wall goes there then with or without Henderson they are a favorite, with Kansas, to win the National title next year.
ncballer....Can I get a link on Henderson going pro or is that one of your sources again...
UNC loses their top 4 scorers this year. When was the last time a team contended after losing their top 4 players....it's NEVER happened before.
With Ryan Kelly and Pumlee coming IN, Wall should look at that and join Duke!!
Were 1 PG away from a Final 4
aio, no sources just a guess if you are top 10 IMHO you should go.
Matrix very good points indeed. Although I disagree about Lawson IMHO he will be much better than Felton. I have no doubt that Wall will be awesome wherever he goes, but IMHO at UNC is where is he would be awesome. Roy Williams wouldn't necessarily have to develop him seeing as he has never had a PG with his ability before.
Qhaynes, Kelly is an awesome player you guys will love him at Duke he is a less polished Singler right now, but he has the potential to get there. I was p!ssed when I saw you guys got him. Plumlee has all the tools to be elite, but IMHO he hasn't put them all together yet. I wouldn't expect him right away to be Duke's answer down low, but over time should develop into a star. If Duke gets Wall (which looks like a possibility) and Henderson returns (he would be crazy not to go in the draft though) Duke should be a final four team.
Matrix, you can't really speak about how mediocre some of Roy William's PGs have been in the NBA if you're gonna try to point out Bobby Hurley or Jay Williams.
Any why is that?
Jay Williams and Bobby Hurley were both much better college PG's than any that Roy has had. They were both injured within their first year in the NBA so you cannot say that they were mediocre. Tragic circumstances cut short what was probably going to be certain all-star careers for both players especially Williams.
NCballer, I can see your point about Lawson being better than Felton. That probably will happen, but I still don't think he will ever be an upper-echelon PG in the league, or an all-star for that matter.
As college point guards, Jay Williams was probably one of the best. Although I think Hurley was probably one of the best in his era. Match up Lawson or Vaughn (In his prime) against Hurley 1 on 1, it's safe to say which person would win.
You can't really criticize Felton or Vaughn as NBA players. Both Jay and Bobby had their careers cut short rather early, but that's where it stops. Would either of them continue on to be successful or become busts in the NBA? Even after rehab, Jay Williams tried out for different teams and he didn't even make it into the third string.
I'm not so sure it's safe to say that Lawson or Vaughn would beat Hurley one on one. I seriously doubt that Vaughn would come close to beating Hurley at all. People always forget about how quick Hurley was, plus he was extremely tough and tenacious. He also probably shot better than Vaughn.
Lawson would be a tougher matchup, but basketball isn't one on one. Hurley would definitely take either in 5 on 5. He's not the all-time NCAA assists leader for nothing. Hurley was a much, much better passer than either Lawson or Vaughn could ever hope to be.
I don't see why you say I cannot criticize Felton or Vaughn. Neither has lived up to their billing. Vaughn was a first-round pick, but has never even been a quality starter in the NBA. He never really developed into a good backup until late in his career. Felton is a decent player, but the fact is he was a top 5 pick. In no way, shape, or form does Felton play like somebody picked in the top 5. The Bobcats screwed themselves when they didn't use both their picks that year to trade up and get Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Anytime, your team has to pick another PG in the lottery while you are still on the team then you are very open for criticism.
You bring up a good point about whether either Jay or Bobby would have been successful or busts. It's hard to say, but you cannot say anything about them post rehab. Your comment about Jay not even being third string after rehab is ridiculous. The man almost had to have his leg amputated. Both players almost died in their crashes, so their play after "rehab" cannot be part of either's evaluation. Those accidents robbed both of them of their quickness and most of their athleticism.
Matrix, Hurley sure did take it to King Rice everytime in 5 on 5. :)
Just playing around, but I hate debates like these because we will never know. I do think it is safe to say Jay-Will would still be in the league had it not been for his injuries.
Felton is one of the fastest players in the league who handles in the open court with the best of them.
But it doesn't matter because the Bobcats play at a snail pace and ask Felton to run the point with no back up for three years AND pull time at shooting guard. He's another case of a good player being stuck in a bad situation.
1st - John Wall would be dynamite in UNC's system and he knows it. You pair him with D. Strickland, J.Henson, L.Drew, M.Ginyard, and L.McDonald next year and with D.Thompson, E.Davis and the Wear Twins.....this roster looks deep and talented again. I'm not saying we are going to compete for a National Championship but we will be quite competetive and exciting to watch. I saw Wall play in the Jordan Classic. He has the second gear that the elite players have and he would be a great replacement for Ty Lawson (who would be insane not to leave now, if he stays I would be elated and surprised).
2nd - Roy does put out solid point guards. They may not be superstars at the next level but they are solid contributors. Now in defense of Duke, Jay Williams was one of the most dominant players I ever say at the college level. I hated having to watch him shred UNC on a yearly basis. But I think Roy has produced more quality point guards that have produced at both levels. Hinrich and Vaughn may not be stars but they are going to have long careers. Felton is just on the wrong team right now. I'd love to see him in Golden State, Phoenix....man he would be awesome with the Knicks too. I don't care what anyone says about Lawson he is going to play in the NBA and be a better pro then Felton. Not to discount Duke, but Roy does produce solid point guards.
3rd - Henderson is as good as gone. I don't think Duke will be able to win a National Championship next year. Wake will be better, Michigan State will be solid, UNC will be tough to beat as well, Kentucky will be better, Kansas is going to be scary with Collins and Aldrich as well as Xavier Henry possbily comign to Lawrence, and Texas is going to dynamite. I don't think Henderson's stock is going to get any higher and that makes that team less likely to compete next year.
I still thinik Wall may end up choosing UK but you can't discount the fact that he put UNC back on the list now, despite the fact of Clifton. Clifton may have beef, but Wall knows what system would be best for him to showcase his talent for the next level and he also knows that he would be able to star on the perimete for UNC next year. I would say before it's all over, he will choose from UNC and UK.
You make some good points throughout your post, but my main sticking point is that you think UNC could compete for the National title next year. Even with Wall, when is the last time you have heard of a team made up predominately of freshmen and sophomores competing for a national title?...That should take you a while to answer. Ohio State competed a few years ago but they had Greg Oden. Nobody on UNC's team is even close to Greg Oden's talent, not even Wall if by the small chance he happened to go there. Then you have the Michigan Fab Five. Once again, I see no Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Juwon Howard on the Tar Heels. Seriously, the Tar Heels will be good next year and probably a sweet 16 team, but even if they get Wall they are not competing for a national title. Don't be delusional.
Thompson is an average player. I would say Dwayne Collins, Jeff Allen, and Trevor Booker are all much better than the big softy Thompson. Ginyard is a good player, but he's not a scorer at all. Larry Drew did not impress me at all this season. I doubt if he is ever any better than a backup in the NBA if even that. Finally, Strickland, McDonald, Henson, and the Wear twins are all unknown commodities. Henson is obviously a good player, but he still has to develop a lot of his game and body. Strickland and the Wear twins have not impressed me at all. Finally, Ed Davis is also a question mark as well because nobody knows if he can carry the load. So that to me is a team full of questions not one that is one piece away from the national title.
Duke can certainly compete for the National title next year. If they land Wall then they will compete for the title, with or without Henderson. All of their players are proven commodities with Scheyer and Singler being All-ACC caliber players. Wall can be the main answer at Duke. He'll be surrounded by great shooters and a surplus of big guys. They may not have a reliable inside presence yet, but they do have 7'1" Zoubek, 6'11" Mason Plumlee, 6'10" Miles Plumlee, 6'10" Ryan Kelly, 6'9" Singler, 6'8" L. Thomas, and 6'8" Olek Czyz. That is a huge team that should be very physical and good at rebounding. Then you have the fact that Singler, Nolan Smith, and Elliot Williams are all likely to improve their games over the summer and there you have a team that is definitely one piece away from the title. Duke will win the ACC next year. UNC will not challenge them, and unless Wake gets back Johnson and Teague then they won't challenge either.
matrix, I completely agree with you. Teams that repeat normally have their entire lineups come back from the previous season (Florida and Duke). If Lawson and Ellington go pro, UNC would lose their top 4 scorers. Rarely do teams contend for the title after losing that much experience in one year. Also, teams that compete for the title have at least one shooter that can stretch the defense. Green and Ellington were both long range bombers and Lawson shot over 45% from threes. Chalmers shot 48% from threes and Rush shot 43%. Humphrey and Green of Florida both shot over 40% from threes. Felton and Mccants both shot over 40%. Uconn had Ben Gordon and Rashad Anderson. Maryland had Juan Dixon. Duke had Williams, Battier, and Dunleavy. UNC of 2009 with a lineup of Wall/Ginyard/Henson/Thompson/Davis would be one of the worst shooting lineups ever for a national title team.
Matrix, how Thompson gets the minutes he does is beyond me. He has all the ability in the world and the tools to dominate the college level, but shies away from contact and gets bullied around in the low post.
I for one am VERY impressed with Dexter Strickland. The only thing he lacks is a meanstreak. He plays great defense, is a freak athlete, and a very smart basketball player. In terms of style of play, I think of Russel Westbrook. I saw Strickland play twice this season and he may not have dominated the game scoring (his HS team is LOADED) but he dominated the game in other ways. Obviously he hasn't proven it on the college level, but at St. Patricks he faced HS's best very night.
The Wear twins are enigma to me. I read reports of them outplaying Henson and Tristan Thompson then when I see them on TV I come away unimpressed. I doubt they will see much time with UNC's frontline.
The thing that next years UNC team will have (with or without John Wall) is a team full of guys who love to get after it defensively. Drew, Strickland, McDonald, Ginyard, Henson, and Davis. While they won't be as potent offensively as they were this season or have the shooters, I believe Roy will have at least 6 guys who pride themselves on defense and that they could potentially surprise people in March. Again I am assuming a lot of things haha. But looking at this team on paper I believe there is a lot more raw talent on that team than UNC's 2006 team that started Frasor, Miller, Terry, Noel and a freshman Hansbrough.
Under my first point I said I DON'T think that UNC will compete for a national championship with or without wall. Duke is going to be alright. I'm not saying they are going to have a bad team by any means. But Singler is a SF not a PF, Zoubek has never been consistent. I'm not sold on Scheyer as a point guard. He's a poor man's Redick but he doesn't offer more than a spot up shooter and he's hasn't been too consistent either. If Duke were able to add John Wall I think that they would considerably better just not National Championship material.
UNC is better than you are giving them credit for. Thompson has had to live in the shadow of Hansbrough and I think that he will be a solid player next year. Henson is a lot like Brandon Wright a few years ago. I feel like he is slightly more skilled than Wright was though. The Wear twins aren't going to be superstars but they will be solid players. They will get after it on the boards and defensively. That provides more depth and size. Davis is going to be a solid player as well. He put up solid numbers while not even getting a lot of minutes. UNC with those guys on the inside will actually be bigger than Duke to tell the truth. Drew also is solid, once again not a superstar but he has good speed (not at Lawson level), plays solid defense and is a pass first point guard. I don't know why you don't like Strickland. He's got great athleticism, is a slasher and can be either guard position. He'll make an immediate impact.
UNC will win the ACC regular season or the tournament. One of the two. They will be too talented not to. Wake will start hot and fade away, same with Clemson And duke will choke like always. Larry Drew is ALOT better than people give him credit. Yeah he didn't look too good out there, but what do you expect from a Freshman on a National Championship team. The guy knows how to get in the lane and dish. Strickland is a freak. Can handle, d it up and stroke the 3's. John Henson has been labeled as the next KG, except for the fact he handles the ball like a guard. Ed Davis will average about 15 points and 12 rebounds a game, along with about 3 blocks. The wear's will come off the bench and score here and there. Deon Thompson will average 10-15 ppg. Leslie Mcdonald will hit the occasional 3 pointer. And you guys are forgetting about Zeller. In his first 2 games he was averagin 10 points per game. Yeah he looked crappy those last games he got in, but the guy was out 20 games what do you expect. He's skinny, yes but he's got range out to 15 feet. UNC will be DEEP.
Heelsfan you need to stop drinking the kool-aid and get some sense like ncballer and bishop. At least their expectations are a bit more reasonable. The stats you came up with for UNC's players are so whack.Thompson scores 10-15, Davis with 15, Zeller with 10. I mean geez everybody on this team will be a double-figure scorer. Maybe we should anoint them the best team of all time already.
Also, thanks for reminding that Duke chokes every year. I forgot about how they choked their way to 8 of the last 11 ACC tournament championships, and the most regular season wins of any team in the last decade and of any decade ever.
Matrix you have'nt written one objective post yet, but you jump on anyone with a pro-carolina post. Just say that your a duke fan and you dont like carolina and stop FRONTIN'. You lost it when you threw Hurley and his NBA career out there. He was about as one dimensional as you could get as a point guard with his only quality being his ability to push the ball on the break. He had no jumper, could not finish and was to weak to play good NBA D and this was PRE-ACCIDENT. Mind you that's not my oppinion that's what was written about him in one of those basketball scouting report magazines some years back (i collect them).
IN A NUTSHELL its obvious your suffering from "post carolina national champions syndrome", something I heard most of you Duke fans suffer from when carolina wins the big one. Hey dude just take a couple of motrin and at least wait until the NFL playoffs before you start annointing Duke the 2010 NCAA champions.......Hurts like a Biatch dont it...HAHAHAHA
Well yes I am a Duke fan but that doesn't mean I'm not objective and it certainly doesn't mean I"m suffering from "post carolina national champions syndrome". You and other Carolina fans are suffering from "post championship delusions" if you think a team that is losing their top 4 players is going to compete for a national title or win the ACC.
Also, your "basketball scouting report magazine" is a great source I'm sure. I forget how accurate all scouting magazines and reports are. Especially when scouting reports and magazines do genius stuff like hailing Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams as the best prospects in a draft over players like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.
Also, obviously Hurley was so one dimensional since he shot 40% from 3 in college. Hurley played only 19 games in the NBA before being injured. Kind of hard to have a comprehensive scouting report from 19 games as a rookie. A player hasn't even had a chance to develop or learn the ropes in the NBA. I'm sure that Derrick Rose and other rookies are much different players now then after only 19 games in a season.
Also, edoom06 maybe you should try actually analyzing situations then just writing childish insults like "hurts like a biatch" and "post championship delusions". That just makes you sound like all the other moronic Holes fans.
Your an idiot. How is it dumb to think Davis will score 15, Thompson 10-15 and Zeller 10? And second of all. Who the hell cares how many regular season and acc tournament wins the have. That doesn't mean jack. Two National Titles in 5 years. But, i guess you have something to look forward to, Duke made it at least past the second round!! your boys are showing promise!!
Oh yeah we should forget about ACC championships and regular season wins. I forgot that the only time college basketball is played is in March and April.
Congrats on winning two titles in 5 years, but don't act like UNC hasn't choked in the past. I mean they lost to George Mason, rolled over in the Final Four against Kansas, and had one of the biggest choke jobs in the last 10 years against Georgetown. They were favored in all three games. The simple fact is only one team wins it each year and that means many teams "choke" and lose each year. But to say Duke always chokes is a moronic statement. That's like me saying UNC chokes each year. Each school is among the best in the country each season, but you can't win it all every year.
Duke dont believe me look it up. I have to agree with matrix i think unc fans are just scared that DUKE might have a championship team, unc is rebuilding face it, i think they will be a top 20 team but with out a proven shooter considering lawson and ellington are gone and there going to be young they are not final 4 worthy. So stop drinking the KOOL-AID
Hm... getting to the final four last year was choking?? Yeah they lost, they weren't the best team. Kansas had an NBA team. What has Duke done? nothing. THEY LOSE in the tournament. THEY NEED ATHLETES, NOT MATHLETES!
^^ Duke's won more games this decade than any other school for any decade ever.
Regular season means nothing. I bet they are in the bottom 1/4th in the nation in tournament wins this decade.
Wow, bottom 1/4th. The Tar Hole fan intelligence shines again. Yes, I am sure that there are 245 teams with more tournament wins than Duke in this decade since that is the bottom 1/4th.
For a team that hasn't done anything lately the Blue Devils have went to more Sweet Sixteens this decade than any other NCAA team. They played in 8 of 10 Sweet 16s, won more ACC titles than the Tar Heels, and won more regular season games than any team in the history of any decade. Plus, they won an NCAA title in the decade with what was probably the best team of the decade. So yes they definitely haven't done anything lately.
LOLLOLOL....how does a team that's been to two final fours and won one title be in the bottom 1/4 in tournament wins...BTW, they've NEVER missed the tournament.
tarheel fans i know that is a painful memory. And congrats to Roy finally won a championship. If u are wondering i dont count the 05 championship since the starting 5 was Doherty players. 15 years at Kansas still couldnt do it. 6 years at UNC finally
Anyway, we all need to just give it a rest. Enough is enough. This post is supposed to be about John Wall and not who is better between UNC and Duke so we might as well stop arguing and get back on topic.
I can p!ss longer than you can...
I agree....let's give his thread a rest until John Wall picks his school.
BTW, ncballer, I doubt you can p!ss longer than me.
Now he's visiting NC CENTRAL?!?! You have GOT to be kidding me.
At this point, I can't figure out if Wall just loves the attention, if he's stalling, or if he really doesn't know where he wants to go to college.
If I had to guess, though, I'd say it's because he's stalling. I say this because, let's be honest, there are only a handful of schools that he has any business going to, and all but one of them has already offered him a scholarship. If he REALLY wanted to go to any of them, he could trim his list to the legit contenders and go from there.
But let's say you're John Wall, and everyone in the world is pressuring you to make a decision, but the one school that you REALLY want to go to hasn't offered you a scholarship yet. What do you do? You can't trim your list to ONLY those legit schools that have offered, because that makes it look like you don't want to go to UNC. And you can't trim your list to just those schools plus UNC, because that's basically begging (and god knows this kid's scumbag handlers are forbidding him to beg UNC for anything).
So you keep your recruitment open, and you send every signal you can that you're happy to entertain new offers. And you just hope that UNC offers you a scholarship sometime before you have to make a decision.
I know what everyone is thinking - John Wall is the best PG in the country, shouldn't UNC be begging him and not the other way around? Ordinarily, I'd agree. The scholarship has been available to offer for a week now, so Roy must be skeptical of something about this kid. And yet Wall is still stalling.... and not only is he stalling, but he's made some statements that appear to be specifically targeted at the types of things Roy would be skeptical about. Earlier in the week Wall was saying he might want to go to college for 2-3 years; now he's talking about seeing a school because he wants to know what the "college experience" will be like there... If you're John Wall and you think Roy Williams is holding out on a scholarship offer because he's concerned about your character, aren't these exactly the kinds of signals you'd be trying to send him?
Seriously - how many times has this kid said he's gonna trim his list? And how many times has he delayed it? You don't keep delaying unless you want somebody else to be on that list before it gets cut. And there's only one school on the planet that John Wall could POSSIBLY by waiting for.
And oh by the way - if Roy Williams wasn't interested, he could end the whole thing right now by saying that he's done recruiting for 2009. But he hasn't done it. He keeps saying "we'll see, we'll see..."
Long story short - John Wall is stalling because he wants very badly to go to UNC.
Baylor would be a great choice for him, since the coach is guard orientated, and PG Curtis Jerrells in leaving for the NBA draft.
But definetly not Duke, duke blows...
tkd720...Alot of black Duke students go to Central to party and vice versa: alot of Central students come to Duke to party too. This visit, IMHO, favors Duke and not UNC.
Seriously dude, where were you at. Jason Williams was GOING TO BE GREAT. It was no secret he clashed with his NBA coach Bill Cartwright, Bill wanted a traditional point, and held Jason on a leash. Jason still managed to have a few great games while a Bull (before an injury, where they weren't even sure if he would walk again), check his triple double on Jason Kidd (then top point in the league) http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1463913.html .
On topic, John Walls potential WILL NOT be affected by where he plays. These back and forth comments are ridiculous about how this school will or will not help. Do any you honestly believe Memphis did SH*T for D Rose? In reality Baylor or Duke seem to be better options though. Baylor will allow him to dominate and Duke has great coaching (lack of athletes have hurt them - also he'll actually run a REAL OFFENSE - not just run). No matter where he goes, he's a top five pick.
Wall is taking the SAT's today to qualify. Recent chatter says the only reason Roy hasn't pulled the trigger is the SAT's. Sit back and watch it play out.
Josh Howard was screwed in his 1st yr because of his low SAT score,
man, ballplayers need to learn to do good at school these days.
Look at OJ Mayo, 29 on the ACT, that's beautiful !!!
i always find it interesting reading oldpost. how some thought unc was gonna beso good. i also dont think they would be title contenders even if wall went to unc
I think they would've been a title contender. John Wall would've been perfect for them. I still to this day don't know why they didn't go hard after him, or at least offer him a scholarship.
as a team they just aren tthat good. which is why i dont think they would. i do think he would make them better though