I said Joe was the 1st scorer... Never denied that, I said Smith was the best player.
And your wrong. Super wrong.
"ZOMG IT SO SIMPLE NOW, JUST GO GET LEBRON HOW DID ANYONE NOT THINK OF THIS BEFORE..........."
Relax. I meant it was NOT a solution.
"That's how Ellis would fit bet. Notice how those teams are good? And the Warriors aren't? Because Ellis is a 6th man. Both of their careers were similar to Ellis' before they played 6th man roles. They were scorers on bad teams who were combo guards. Ellis is no different in the grand scheme of things. He's an undersized tweener guard who puts up numbers on a bad team. He's a guy that should be used as a spark off the bench."
Terry and JC were never leaders or as dominant as Monta is right now. Again when we had decent talent Monta was best as a starter and the team was better for it. So all combo guards who score well on meh teams are 6th men? Okay so Reke is also a 6th man and so is Curry right? You do know that Monta's best years and our best years were with him starting right? Either way why bring a guy off the bench only to play just as many minutes as he would starting.... Manu is starting now and its working out better for them
Because Ellis is a 6th man.
If Ellis is a 6th man, how is he better then Steph Curry? How is he the FRANCHISE for Golden State?
Better rebounder for his position and better defender. Joe just takes more shots and dictates the offense. Hes especially not as good this year cause of the injuries
Who are you talking too? Me or Jnix?
Talking to you nateoak
"Terry and JC were never leaders or as dominant as Monta is right now. Again when we had decent talent Monta was best as a starter and the team was better for it. So all combo guards who score well on meh teams are 6th men? Okay so Reke is also a 6th man and so is Curry right? You do know that Monta's best years and our best years were with him starting right? Either way why bring a guy off the bench only to play just as many minutes as he would starting.... Manu is starting now and its working out better for them"
Monta Ellis isn't really a leader at all. What has he led? He was the 2nd option on a 48 win team like you said, so he didn't lead then. The Warriors have sucked every year he's been the 1st option. Nothing about Monta Ellis suggests he's a leader. I never said ALL combo guards are 6th men, but in most games they are. Ellis is best suited for a 6th man role. It would be best from a wins standpoint. He's had his best years as a starter, but the team still isn't good. Sure he has gaudy stats, but how much does it matter if he's still not making them a good team.
"Better rebounder for his position and better defender. Joe just takes more shots and dictates the offense. Hes especially not as good this year cause of the injuries"
You don't watch the Hawks play at all if you think Josh Smith is the best player on the Hawks. Johnson has been hurt this year, and has been better every other year. Let's watch basketball games and not look at stats. Nobody who understands basketball thinks that Josh Smith is the best player on the Hawks
This is starting to feel like a T Wolve argument. People not understanding that putting up stats and losing isnt good basketball.
Monta Ellis is a good player, but Im almost sure you cant win with him as your marquee player.
That is True G State has never had a franchise guy
Joe Johnson is the best player on the Hawks team He has a very good all Around game as well as being a good scorer
Into a debate about Ellis over Curry, and wheiter or not either of them is a franchise player. Neither is a typical starter let alone franchise player but both have shown flashes. Why argue about it when they obviously like both and fell like it can work to some extent. Our opinions in the matter don't change their problem. I think the Warriors need to choose one the other. So putting both on the block sounds smart. See what each is worth and how you can build around the guy you keep.
People get so hyped when they see Ellis 25ppg and think he is the 4th best scorer in the league.
If you look at the 40 minute adjusted stat he is the 13th best scorer.
If you look at the 40 pace adjusted stat he is the 14th best scorer.
I totally like the idea of him being a 6th man who plays like 25-30mpg. I think he would be a lot more effective with less pressure on him. He simply isn't a franchise player or first option, everyone who doesn't believe that, look at his +/- stats and the GSW record of the last seasons.
I think there is a difference between player skill and what teams need. If you compare Ellis to guys like Crawford, Carter, Reddick, Allen, Jackson. I think Ellis might be a better player. The thing is, most playoff teams don't need a ball-dominant player who can't play D. I think most teams would take a great D&3 like Ray Allen or Jackson over him.
I think the only team that could really need someone like Ellis are my Mavs. A team full of jump shooters could need a guy who can drive that well. The problem is his defense and lack of range. You couldn't start him next to Marion because of his range, maybe start Terry and bench Ellis. The Mavs play a lot with a 3 guard line-up, he might fit, maybe around 25mpg. Although the Mavs already have a bunch of ball-dominant players and play slow, who knows how well Ellis plays on their system.
But what other playoff team needs a ball hog like him?
SA - Manu and TP
Mavs - Kidd, Terry, Dirk - still might use him with his scoring in the paint
Lakers - Kobe, need someone with range next to Kobe
OKC - Durant, Westbrook
Utah - Deron
Hornets - Paul
Denver - Melo, Billups
Blazers - Miller, Roy
Houston - Already have one of the worst defensive back-courts in the league, but Ellis might be an upgrade over Brooks or Martin
Memphis - Conley, Mayo - They need guys who can defend
Suns - Nash
Miami - no comment
Boston - no comment
Chicago - Rose
Orlando - Nelson, Reddick, Arenas + need guys with range
Hawks - Crawford, Johnson and Bibby
New York - Felton, Amare + can't really play Ellise next to guys who doesn't have great range
Indiana - Collison + can't really play Ellise next to guys who doesn't have great range
Philly - Iggy, Holiday + can't really play Ellise next to guys who doesn't have great range
Bucks - Jennings + can't really play Ellise next to guys who doesn't have great range
Correct me if I'm wrong but what real playoff team could really use him. Most of those teams need 3&D guys on the perimeter next to their real PGs or real franchise players like Roy or Johnson who are 20-5-5. What team needs another ball-hog next to their PGs or SG's who can create.
I agree. Ellis wouldnt really fit anywhere. If went to Orlando, and took Jameer's place, i think they would be better, because he and Gunnin Gil would be an explosive scoring backcourt, but it wouldnt neccessarily fit. It would just work cuz Orlando has a lot of dudes on the perimeter but no marquee go-to type guys.