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Warriors interested in Prince and ZBo

nateoak10
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Warriors interested in Prince and ZBo

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/08/SPP21H6B7G.DTL

Scroll down, keep in mind the W's new FO loves 4/5 starters (Andris odd man out most likely) and Udoh is a handpicked favorite. Everyone else though.... not so much

A pattern with both of these guys, big expiring contracts and the GM here doesn't mind keeping out 15 mil in expirings either (basically means he wants to keep them).... They want cap space and Andris is really overpaid for a a guy who is a below average defender, no offense but great rebounder


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That's a combined 27 mil in

That's a combined 27 mil in salaries if they want to add both.

I think one is more realistic, but if they want to give up Monta, then they could get both IMO. If I was Golden State, I would see if I could Xavier Henry as well. He's a better fit next to Curry as a conventional SG

nateoak10
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They dont want to trade Ellis

And not a lot of teams are too conventional now a days. Monta is our leader and best player and only guard who can play any defense. Henry is a massive downgrade from Monta. MASSIVE . Trading Biedrins is our best move right now

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Monta Ellis isn't better then

Monta Ellis isn't better then Steph Curry.

The only way you can get both is moving Monta. That's all I said. Of course, Henry is a stepdown from Ellis now, but I was impressed when I saw him play. With everyone knowing Curry is the future of this team, you should probably build around him with players that fit. I think Henry would be a better fit long term then Ellis

nateoak10
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Monta Ellis isn't better then Steph Curry.

Yes he is, better scoroer, defender, leader, he actually has developed into just as good passer (certainly better at creating for other, Curry is better at finding people in transition), better stealer, better overall scorer (inside AND out) and way more consistent. They dont want both, they are interested in Prince and *intrigued* with Zbo, basically meaning he'd be nice to get but wont sell the farm for him. They likely want Prince more

Henry might be a good starter one day but will never be on Monta's level, people are questioning if Curry really is the future with his play this year , sure some stats have gone up but his floor play is not as good. He's been more Mike Bibby than Steve Nash . His potential is borderline all star

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I'm sure most people would

I'm sure most people would take Steph Curry over Monta Ellis. Curry has all the upside, he's a better shooter. Monta would be the better defender and leader...he's been on the team longer. Curry's value for his contract is also better then Ellis AS WELL as Curry would bring more in a trade back to Golden State then Ellis would.

Plus, I feel Curry has more point guard abilities (I.E. Running a team) then Ellis

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Myabe for the future

But as of now? Monta is top 5 at his position, Curry? Maybe top 10 . Curry is smarter so he is a better team PG but Monta is more than capable of doing it, and Curry would get more in a trade cause hes young and cheap. The flip side is how many guys are as cheap as him for the contracts to match up?

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The Kings, Clippers and Warriors all want Prince

All 3 can get him and possibly resign him using the California sales approach. Warriors would love dump Beidrins for Prince and use the cap space to sign or trade for a defensive center. Z Bo makes no sense having Lee and Doh already. So Lee would likely be moved to Memphis for Zac if they truly wanted him and he wanted the Dubs. The Kings also have Dalembert and Casspi to offer. Which is a salary dump and starting Sf for expiring contract Tayshaun Prince. The Clippers could offer Kaman for Prince straight up. Detroit may want to bring back a starting center instead of fringe starting sf. In that deal both guys moved go back home in way. And Prince and Kaman may never find two teams in need of the others services. Lot of teams want Tayshuan and that fat expiring contract. I think he goes to a California team.

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Wade, Bryant, Ginobili,

Wade, Bryant, Ginobili, Gordon, Stephen Jackson are the 5 I prefer over Ellis IMO.

Yea, the future, the Warriors should consider that because they aren't winning now. To me, moving Ellis means you can at least try to rebuild around Curry and Lee. You can move Biedrens as well, that's a win-win to me. I much rather have Curry-Henry-Wright-Lee and a random center here then keep Ellis is stay stuck in that 29-35 win range.

Yea, your losing your 2nd best player, but when you can't win, you cannot win. Gotta try something new. I'm not saying GIVE Ellis away, but rather, look to flip him for something.

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^Add Joe Johnson to that

^Add Joe Johnson to that list, hell I may even take Ray Allen too

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trade idea

How would a Biedrins, B.Wright, and draft pick for Prince and Maxiell sound? Detroit gets bigger and frees up room for their younger wings. Brandon Wright still has some potential and a pick would be nice for the future, they would also save about 4 million dollars. Golden State gets rid of an injury prone player with a big contract and gets two tough players in return. With Biedrins gone Udoh will see more time too.

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If Detroit is reluctant to

If Detroit is reluctant to take on Johan Petro's contract why on earth would they take Andris Biedrin's??

and sorry, i'd definately take Monta Ellis over Steph Curry right now, Steph Curry doesn't look like he's improved all that much since last season.

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and sorry, i'd definately

and sorry, i'd definately take Monta Ellis over Steph Curry right now, Steph Curry doesn't look like he's improved all that much since last season.

- Ellis has played consistently all season. Curry has had ankle and hip issues. I think rather have Curry.

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Hip issue?

He fell on it once and came back after 5 minutes........

dmo - we cant trade a draft pick cause we still owe NJ one, its complicated

ZBo would work as an expiring contract, giving us over 20 mil in cap space to sign anyone we can get.

Wade, Bryant, Ginobili are legit guys who could be taken over Monta. But Eric Gordon? Hes good but not nearly that good, Jackson? The same one having his worst seaso in a LONG time? With a bloated contract and is aging? Id like to hear that reasoning. Ive already explained in detail (with advanced stats even, quick recap, not as prolific, worse defensive rating, worse Turnover rate with far less usage % and his shooting is on a downward trend) on how Ray is not as good as Monta

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Knicksboy Explain to me why

Knicksboy

Explain to me why you want Steph Curry over Monta Ellis?

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@BigD I rather have Stephen

@BigD

I rather have Stephen Curry for many reasons. For one, when he plays, he has a better ability of leading a team. I feel he plays better with David Lee then Monta Ellis does. I also feel he's more capable of playing point guard. He can shoot the rock, he's younger and provides similar stats to Ellis.

If I was Golden State, I rather trade Ellis, get players and a pick/s back and build around Curry and Lee. I feel they would have more success doing that.

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Similar Stats to Ellis? Monta

Similar Stats to Ellis?

Monta is at 25ppg 5.6ast 2.3stl 3.3reb

Curry is at 18ppg 5.8ast 2stl 3.4reb

They are similar but Ellis is getting 7 more points for the team. Monta Ellis is the leader of that team so how would you know if Curry is a better leader. Ellis is best suited to being a SG as he's a scoring first guard. ala Iverson. Why not build it similary to the 76ers back in their hey day. All it takes is for Curry to become a better defender, Ellis is quite capable against bigger stronger guards, but could still improve. they were 6-2 before David Lee got hurt, but overall maybe closer to .500. They're entire team is very young, their 1-4 positions have good players, although i think Dorell Wright may be better suited to 6th man role. They may have an undersized centre in Ekpe Udoh coming through as well.

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@BigD So the ball dominant

@BigD

So the ball dominant guard is ONLY averaging more points....Think about that.

Monta Ellis is NOT on Iverson's level. Period. Iverson was putting up 30 a game for that team and still pulling out 55 wins. Ellis never lead a team to 40 wins. NEVER. I will agree, this team is young but that only give me more reason to say, Ellis could bring back more to help a young team.

Until Golden St chooses between Ellis and Curry, the Warriors won't win more then 40 games.

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Did i say Ellis was on

Did i say Ellis was on Iverson's level. All i said was he plays similar to Iverson, he was ball dominate too wasn't he? Iverson also had a lot of defensive players surrounding him, Ellis has only got offensive thanks to Don Nelson. If Golden State gets a healthy David Lee and Ekpe Udoh lives up to his defensive potential thats a goodish defensive frontline. Dorell Wright has the athletic tools to be a great defensive player. Ellis is a good defender against the bigger SG's. Curry is probably below average and will obviously need improvement.

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Technically...yea you did.

Technically...yea you did. You said why not recreated the 01 Sixers and said "all it takes" and then when into detail about what they needed to change EXCEPT not mentioning Ellis wasn't Iverson...not even close. David Lee is not a good defender, Udoh COULD be solid, Wright has the tools but hasn't shown it yet and Curry will at best be a solid defender.

So your'e idea in recreating the 01 Sixers, or build the team like them isn't a good idea IMO.

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I never said Ellis was

I never said Ellis was Iverson, don't put words into people's mouths, not a good idea mate. Let the team mature a little bit before you start saying it isn't a good idea. This is their first season out of the Don Nelson era, making a good defensive team out of young players in one offseason is never possible, and this GSW coach has put more of an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball, and in a few games they've shown their defensive potential, with both Ellis and Curry playing.

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It's not a good idea to even

It's not a good idea to even compare Iverson and Ellis period. So why did you do it? Go ahead, read what you said over and tell me what that means....You compared the two. Yes, there very improved on D. 27th in the NBA in points allowed.

Say what you want, they need to make a move. Like I said on the other conversation: I'm done.

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Build around Lee?

HELL NO, an overpaid no defense PF? Ew, we need to get a center who commands the paint and a damn bench

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Again you put words into my

Again you put words into my mouth, i never said GSW was a good defensive team, i just said they've shown defensive potential in a few games holding teams to below 85 points.

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If Golden State was smart,

If Golden State was smart, they'd trade Ellis and build around Curry as the franchise player. I'd much rather have a reliable PG than a guy who's better off as an instant offense piece. Which, of course, is all Ellis is if you want to field a good team. They need to build around Curry, see what they can by trading Ellis to rebuild, and keep they guys who actually are guys you can win with as rotation guys. And they don't have many of those guys right now on their roster,

nateoak10
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We got offered Ray Alle, Mayo/Thabeet for him....

AGiven his value is higher now that hes got a better attitude (much better) the fact is we wont get equal value for him. Curry most likely isnt a franchise player, unless you consider guys like Tony Pakrer a franchise guy..... Thats the highest level Curry can get at , potential all star but nothing more. A key solid guy. Theres no evidence sugesting Monta is best as instant offense off the bench, it actually would be a worse role for him. Hes a small 2 so people get that image in there head of a quick 6th man which just isn't true. The way he can run a team, play both guard spots, take over games with the best of them bringing off the bench would useless since he'd still get 35-40 MPG. Might as well make him the starter if the guy ahead of him get 10 MPG

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wow

did i really read someone even mentioning x henry being as good as monta in the same sentence wow i agree about beird being the most likely to move i stick with monta an steph with david lee and udoh as a great benhc player gotta get a better center on this team

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did i really read someone

did i really read someone even mentioning x henry being as good as monta

- I didn't say that so you DIDN'T read that.

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Crazy

Are you guys crazy? Monta Eliis is Golden States top player he is averaging 25 points a game and in my opinion, he has truned in to that shooting guard. Also Monta Ellis is a scorer, and I bet Memphis wouldn't trade Xavier Henry unless they get a scorer like Ellis. If Golden States front office is that dumb wow they have some issues.

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"Curry most likely isnt a

"Curry most likely isnt a franchise player, unless you consider guys like Tony Pakrer a franchise guy..... Thats the highest level Curry can get at , potential all star but nothing more. A key solid guy. Theres no evidence sugesting Monta is best as instant offense off the bench, it actually would be a worse role for him. Hes a small 2 so people get that image in there head of a quick 6th man which just isn't true. The way he can run a team, play both guard spots, take over games with the best of them bringing off the bench would useless since he'd still get 35-40 MPG. Might as well make him the starter if the guy ahead of him get 10 MPG"

You can build a good team with Curry (who's potential is more like Mike Bibby in his prime, with more quickness possibly) as you're PG of the future much easier than you can build a good team with Monta Ellis having to score 25 ppg. Ellis also isn't a PG. He's far too turnover prone and nowhere near a guy who can make guys better. His role should be similar to that of Jamal Crawford's or Jason Terry's if Golden State wants to win games. No team with him trying to score 25 ppg is ever going to win anything. Sure he can put up points, but he's not a 1st option guy on a winning team. He'd be best as a 30 mpg guy who brings a spark off the bench but plays starter time, to take advantage of matchups that way. You have to make changes if you want to be good. The way they're playing Ellis obviously hasn't worked the past 2 or 3 years, since the Warriors haven't won anything.

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i agree Ellis is a great scorer and he can start in thid league

He's having an all star season and the Warriors have looked good at times. They do have to make a decision soon. Do they keep a small ball line up and risk being one of the worse defensive teams in the league or do they make a move that gives them size at Sg. They need true 2 guard, starting Center and bench depth. If they can get a stud Sf they'll be in good shape. I'm not saying they can't keep Ellis. But trading him makes more sense than people think.

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Trading Ellis makes all the

Trading Ellis makes all the sense in the world if they want to have any chance of getting the players or picks they'd need to develop into a winning team. Ellis obviously isn't a winning player as a 1st option, so why make him your 1st option when you can deal him and get value?

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i say

I say don't trade him, simply because he's there franchise player right now maybe trade him if the deal is in the Warriors hands. Personally Monta Ellis is one of my favorite players, but he is a scorer plane and simple, i would not treat him like a 6th man either he needs those 35-40 minutes to score and lift the Golden State Warriors to a win. Golden State needs more talent to come throught the nba draft, look at the last 2 years 2009- Stephen Curry and 2010-Epke Udoh who i think has a lot of potential.

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"Personally Monta Ellis is

"Personally Monta Ellis is one of my favorite players, but he is a scorer plane and simple, i would not treat him like a 6th man either he needs those 35-40 minutes to score and lift the Golden State Warriors to a win."

Yeah because he lifts them to so many wins in those 35-40 minutes right?

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i was never too high on Ellis to be honest.

I'm not surprised he's scored the points he has because he always had that potential to take over. I'm just not convinced a team would build the roster necessary to play the way the Warriors would need to win games consistently. They'd need lock down defenders, stellar rebounding and interior defense to get into the playoffs. Curry isn't that type of defender at the point. A big guard like Holiday would be a perfect fit next to Ellis. So if your going to have Ellis be the " Man " you need to move Curry to the bench or trade him for the perfect pieces to surround Ellis with.

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@Knicksboy1 I'd take Eric

@Knicksboy1

I'd take Eric Gordon over Monta Ellis as well.

They're both undersized off-guards, but Gordon is stronger and longer. Gordon is close to him scoring wise, has better shot selection, plays a better team game and defends (both guard spots) better.

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Has ellis really not

Has ellis really not worked?..Can't you say the same thing about eric gordan since neither team has gotten better since going to there respective team?. Or is it just that they havn't had the right players around them?

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Eric Gordon has played as a

Eric Gordon has played as a complimentary scorer, Monta Ellis has been the 1st option on these bad teams. He's more to blame than Gordon has been for the Clippers.

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so if the clippers still dont

so if the clippers still dont get better with Blake as there go to guy he fits in the same boat as ellis correct?

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And i think some of it has to

And i think some of it has to do with the players he has had around him just like Paul Gasol in Memphis. ( and the fact they don't seem to be go to lead you're team to title guys) ellis and gordan are clearly number 2 guys as far as leading teams to wins. You don't build around them as number one guys

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Monta was the 2nd guy on a 48 win team

That only had 1 big, he's not a 1st guy to lead you too a lot of wins (neither is EG, Manu, Joe J etc) but is a damn good 2nd guy. Or if he was your 1st guy you'd need guys to fit around him

Kwame is stronger and longer than Bargs but whod you rather have? Monta is the better overall player to him, and he's the better defender and passer. Team game? EG is a guy who works within a team, Monta is a guy who the team revolves around, you cant truly make a comparison. two vastly different roles, EG wouldnt survive in Montas role but Monta has survived in EG's

Its not easy to lead your tam to wins when most of your team sucks outside of 2-4 other guys who are decent-solid. I could do say the same for Griffin, how many wins is his double doubles leading too?

For us to develop into a better team we need to get tougher on the inside and on the bench . Andris is a pansy, Reggie is a pansy, Vlad is a pansy, Lee is a pansy and so is Curry. Im okay with keeping Lee and Curry butthe rest I wouldnt mind trading.

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The Clippers will more than

The Clippers will more than likely get better if Griffin stays healthy as their 1st option.

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Oh i agree but if they dont

Oh i agree but if they dont that puts Blake in the same catagory. Being a number 2 isn't a slight, there are very few number one guys and You're right Manu is a number 2 as well. Number one guys are guys who can lead you to a title as the number one guy with other stars on the team. or lead a bad team to the playoffs(Lebron,Kobe,Wade).

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"That only had 1 big, he's

"That only had 1 big, he's not a 1st guy to lead you too a lot of wins (neither is EG, Manu, Joe J etc) but is a damn good 2nd guy. Or if he was your 1st guy you'd need guys to fit around him"

Joe Johnson has led the Hawks to the 2nd round of the playoffs twice as a 2nd option. Ginobili has been the Spurs 1st option scorer for the past 2 years and they've been in the playoffs. Ellis isn't in the same boat as those guys.

"Kwame is stronger and longer than Bargs but whod you rather have? Monta is the better overall player to him, and he's the better defender and passer. Team game? EG is a guy who works within a team, Monta is a guy who the team revolves around, you cant truly make a comparison. two vastly different roles, EG wouldnt survive in Montas role but Monta has survived in EG's"

His comparison CLEARLY went past just being longer and stronger. Hence, why he said he scores nearly as much, has better shot selection, and plays better defense. Eric Gordon could put up numbers on a bad team just like Ellis has..He's already doing it anyway.

"Its not easy to lead your tam to wins when most of your team sucks outside of 2-4 other guys who are decent-solid. I could do say the same for Griffin, how many wins is his double doubles leading too?"

If the Warriors had more guys that were actually, Ellis wouldn't be their best player anymore, and the Warriors would actually be a good team. He's not as good as the role he's playing.

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"You can build a good team

"You can build a good team with Curry (who's potential is more like Mike Bibby in his prime, with more quickness possibly) as you're PG of the future much easier than you can build a good team with Monta Ellis having to score 25 ppg. Ellis also isn't a PG. He's far too turnover prone and nowhere near a guy who can make guys better. His role should be similar to that of Jamal Crawford's or Jason Terry's if Golden State wants to win games. No team with him trying to score 25 ppg is ever going to win anything. Sure he can put up points, but he's not a 1st option guy on a winning team. He'd be best as a 30 mpg guy who brings a spark off the bench but plays starter time, to take advantage of matchups that way. You have to make changes if you want to be good. The way they're playing Ellis obviously hasn't worked the past 2 or 3 years, since the Warriors haven't won anything."

You could try and build a team round anyone but it wont get you far, Curry is a piece of the puzzle but not the centerpiece. Monta's turnover rate combined with his usage % (look at the whole picture) is actually real good, Curry's TO rate with usage % is actually worse. Crawford is a guy who shoots, thats it so as a 6th man he works. Terry plays starter minutes and the guys in front of him get 10-2- mpg max so him coming off the bench is more like him starting cause of the minutes. They bring him off the bench to help create some balance but more often then not he plays like a starter. Same for Manu, the Spurs look better with him starting. If a bench guy plays 30 mpg how would you takeaway matchups? More often then not he'll be in when the starters are or when they come back in. Thats just redundant. The W's were at there best when they were good with him starting. the last 2 years we broke the record for injuries, we have Corey Maggette at PF and center, think about that one. 3 years ago we won 48 games and broke the record for most wins while missing the playoffs. Monta also 2 years ago played around 20 games with a bad ankle that severely limited him that season, the next year he exploded. If we want to win games we have to develop the team, Curry is a 2nd year guy, Monta is just 25, Wright is 24 and Udoh is a rookie . Thats our young core, we need to develop not just blow itup every 2-3 years thats what got us where we are. "2 years of great seasons? time to get rid of the whole team minus Biedrins and Monta!" Cause that worked so well for us....

Our issue was always we never had a franchise guy, we had really good guys but not the dominant player. We had Cwebb and dumped him, then we got Sprewell... : / didnt work out. Guys like JRich , Jackson , Monta, Curry and Lee are all very good but not franchise guy, Baron was the franchise guy we wanted but our dumb asses dropped him , he went to LA where he wanted to go back home, chill and do his movie thing so he got lazy and fat. Up here he was motivated and was the guy

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Manu was the scorer there but

Manu was the scorer there but not there "guy" . Duncan always was, thats where it goes back to me saying your okay with Monta as your lead scorer but you need the franchise player. CP3 isnt a lead scorer but a franchise guy none the less.

JSmove is Atlantas best player, dude is a great defender and really efficient scorer and rebounder. Joe is there 1st scorer but 2nd wheel. He jus gets the praise cause he got voted in the AS game and always has the ball

Gordon cant do what Monta is doing here, he cant handle the ball like him or lead a team

"If the Warriors had more guys that were actually, Ellis wouldn't be their best player anymore, and the Warriors would actually be a good team. He's not as good as the role he's playing."

Get better players and Monta wont be the best player.... No duh.... Simple &$#%#&@!ion, just go get Lebron, its just that simple : /

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"You could try and build a

"You could try and build a team round anyone but it wont get you far, Curry is a piece of the puzzle but not the centerpiece"

Curry isn't a franchise guy anymore than Ellis, but he does have more value as a PG of the future. Notice how last year, the GM of the Warriors said everyone on the team was a trade piece EXCEPT Stephen Curry. He's the most valuable player on their roster. He's not a franchise player like a Kobe Bryant, but PG of the future? Easily for this team. You build a team around him (since he's the most valued holdover on their roster) and you can have a contending team if you go about it the right way.

"Crawford is a guy who shoots, thats it so as a 6th man he works. Terry plays starter minutes and the guys in front of him get 10-2- mpg max so him coming off the bench is more like him starting cause of the minutes. They bring him off the bench to help create some balance but more often then not he plays like a starter."

That's how Ellis would fit bet. Notice how those teams are good? And the Warriors aren't? Because Ellis is a 6th man. Both of their careers were similar to Ellis' before they played 6th man roles. They were scorers on bad teams who were combo guards. Ellis is no different in the grand scheme of things. He's an undersized tweener guard who puts up numbers on a bad team. He's a guy that should be used as a spark off the bench.

JNixon
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And you're CRAZY to say Josh

And you're CRAZY to say Josh SMith is the 1st option over Joe Johnson. CRAZY. I live in Atlanta and have watch how the Hawks have gone from 13 wins to a playoff team. Josh SMith isn't the 1st option AT ALL for the Hawks. No debate there. He blocks shots and rebounds better than Joe, but he's not the guy who makes the Hawks go other than momentum changing dunks and blocks. You obviously just look at stats and don't watch games at all if you think Josh Smith is the main guy for the Hawks.

JNixon
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"Get better players and Monta

"Get better players and Monta wont be the best player.... No duh.... Simple &$#%#&@!ion, just go get Lebron, its just that simple : /"

That was a solution. It was to show that Ellis isn't as goods as his numbers. I don't know who the Warriors should get really, I do know that Ellis isn't a guy who should be playing the role he's playing. And he wouldn't be on a good team.

nateoak10
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I said Joe was the 1st scorer...

Never denied that, I said Smith was the best player. Anytime a guy dominates on a team not in the playoffs wouldnt be in the same role as on a really good team. Thats nothing groundbreaking . If I did just look at the stats you look at Joe would look better....

Larry Riley said no one was untouchable recently as well, including CUrry

"Get better players and Monta wont be the best player.... No duh.... Simple &$#%#&@!ion, just go get Lebron, its just that simple : /"

"That was a solution"

ZOMG IT SO SIMPLE NOW, JUST GO GET LEBRON HOW DID ANYONE NOT THINK OF THIS BEFORE...........

: /

BKKnicksfan
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Iggy 9....just don't even

Iggy 9....just don't even argue with him. It's pointless

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