[BallerScriptParticipant]

This year for few teams, drafting a player may come down to what veteran players the team already has on their roster. I think that the Los Angeles Lakers will draft Emmanuel Mudiay and have Kobe Bryant mentor him as he fades away from the NBA. I also think the Sacramento Kings will consider drafting Jerian Grant and have him learn a few things from newly aquired point guard Andre Miller.

List some rookie-veteran duos you think would work or we could see after this years draft.

 

 

 

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 David West to send-over some of his grit to Montrezl Harrell.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 David West to send-over some of his grit to Montrezl Harrell.

[mgreener_34Participant]

To be honest, when I think of veteran leadership and veterans taking playes under their wings, I don’t really invision them showing them the secrets to their games. The NBA has a lot of the best talent in the world in reguards to coaching/trainers/ect. ect, so I don’t really see how a player could change a players skill set/heart. 

I generally view veterans like KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Joakim, Tim Duncan, Dirk, David West, Tyson Chandler, and so on to be great mentors because they show you the ropes of the NBA, not how to play. They teach you that even though you think you put in work in highschool and college, you really didn’t, and that work starts now. They show you that you have to be a profestional first, and try to stay humble. That just because you "made it" doesn’t mean you still don’t arrive to the gym 2 hours early to put up shots like Ray Allen, or stay an extra couple after like Dirk. To me this is the true measure of good veteran leadership.

You guys remember Aaron Gordon tweet like a dumb *** about his new fame and fortune when he was drafted? You think someone like KG would let that go without saying something? You think D-Cuz would be whining so much if a player like Dirk or Pj Brown was their to tell him to shut up early in his career? Would Westbrook still jack up these horrible shots if he had a veteran coach who benched him whenever he tried to go 1 on 5? You notice how quickly Kanters demeaner and style of play has changed once he got off a young Jazz team, and went to a team loaded with veterans who aren’t afraid to back up their mouths with their plays?

People don’t take continuity into account in the NBA as much as they should, or atleast up untill the Spurs blew us all away with it the past two years. Accountability and not being afraid are the two most important traits for a coach to have in my opinion, and when they can’t provide that, that’s when you see real veteran leadership. 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

If OKC has such great veteran leadership, how come that hasn’t worked for Westbrook, who as you said needed that type of leadership to curb his inefficient shooting?

[mgreener_34Participant]

 Because one is past and the other is present. Westbrook needed that veteran leadership as a young player coming into the league. Now he is that veteran providing what I mentioned in my statement. You can clearly see the type of effect Westbrook can have, as Durant says:

"A lot of people put unfair criticism on you as a player and I’m the first to have your back, man, though it all. Just stay the person you are. Everybody loves you here. I love you. I thank you so much, man. You make me better. You know, your work ethic, I always want to compete with you. I always want to pull up in the parking lot of the arena, or the practice facility, and if you beat me there I was always upset. I always wanted to outwork you. You set the bar. You set the tone."

Another great quote from this amazing speech is when KD talks about Nick Collison, the only veteran on those early Thunder/Seatle teams, he says:

"Nick, you know, the first guy I met when I first got to Seattle as an 18 year old. You took me in. You believed in me from the beginning. You knew that I had potential. Every single day, I know I can look at you and know that you respect me as a man, as a player and you’re going to ride with me to the end. And I thank you."

[mgreener_34Participant]

 Because one is past and the other is present. Westbrook needed that veteran leadership as a young player coming into the league. Now he is that veteran providing what I mentioned in my statement. You can clearly see the type of effect Westbrook can have, as Durant says:

"A lot of people put unfair criticism on you as a player and I’m the first to have your back, man, though it all. Just stay the person you are. Everybody loves you here. I love you. I thank you so much, man. You make me better. You know, your work ethic, I always want to compete with you. I always want to pull up in the parking lot of the arena, or the practice facility, and if you beat me there I was always upset. I always wanted to outwork you. You set the bar. You set the tone."

Another great quote from this amazing speech is when KD talks about Nick Collison, the only veteran on those early Thunder/Seatle teams, he says:

"Nick, you know, the first guy I met when I first got to Seattle as an 18 year old. You took me in. You believed in me from the beginning. You knew that I had potential. Every single day, I know I can look at you and know that you respect me as a man, as a player and you’re going to ride with me to the end. And I thank you."

[ChoppyParticipant]

I see your point, but the point I’m making is that I don’t think OKC’s veteran leadership is all that great. Look at Westbrook. He is a great competitor, has a massive heart and a fantastic work ethic. But he’s never met a shot he didn’t like and, as you said, jacks up terrible shots. He’s a mixed bag – is he an ideal mentor? Now look at Reggie Jackson. Westbrook and Durant ( the veteran leaders) appeared to clash with Jackson towards the end of his tenure. Veterans set a tone for a club – I’m not saying that Jackson wasn’t equally responsible for those clashes, but it just leads me to question the leadership at the club. 

[ChoppyParticipant]

I see your point, but the point I’m making is that I don’t think OKC’s veteran leadership is all that great. Look at Westbrook. He is a great competitor, has a massive heart and a fantastic work ethic. But he’s never met a shot he didn’t like and, as you said, jacks up terrible shots. He’s a mixed bag – is he an ideal mentor? Now look at Reggie Jackson. Westbrook and Durant ( the veteran leaders) appeared to clash with Jackson towards the end of his tenure. Veterans set a tone for a club – I’m not saying that Jackson wasn’t equally responsible for those clashes, but it just leads me to question the leadership at the club. 

[ChoppyParticipant]

If OKC has such great veteran leadership, how come that hasn’t worked for Westbrook, who as you said needed that type of leadership to curb his inefficient shooting?

[mgreener_34Participant]

To be honest, when I think of veteran leadership and veterans taking playes under their wings, I don’t really invision them showing them the secrets to their games. The NBA has a lot of the best talent in the world in reguards to coaching/trainers/ect. ect, so I don’t really see how a player could change a players skill set/heart. 

I generally view veterans like KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Joakim, Tim Duncan, Dirk, David West, Tyson Chandler, and so on to be great mentors because they show you the ropes of the NBA, not how to play. They teach you that even though you think you put in work in highschool and college, you really didn’t, and that work starts now. They show you that you have to be a profestional first, and try to stay humble. That just because you "made it" doesn’t mean you still don’t arrive to the gym 2 hours early to put up shots like Ray Allen, or stay an extra couple after like Dirk. To me this is the true measure of good veteran leadership.

You guys remember Aaron Gordon tweet like a dumb *** about his new fame and fortune when he was drafted? You think someone like KG would let that go without saying something? You think D-Cuz would be whining so much if a player like Dirk or Pj Brown was their to tell him to shut up early in his career? Would Westbrook still jack up these horrible shots if he had a veteran coach who benched him whenever he tried to go 1 on 5? You notice how quickly Kanters demeaner and style of play has changed once he got off a young Jazz team, and went to a team loaded with veterans who aren’t afraid to back up their mouths with their plays?

People don’t take continuity into account in the NBA as much as they should, or atleast up untill the Spurs blew us all away with it the past two years. Accountability and not being afraid are the two most important traits for a coach to have in my opinion, and when they can’t provide that, that’s when you see real veteran leadership. 

 

[arambone2]

 Gerald Wallace would be an ideal mentor for Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Wallace might be a future assistant coach at the least. 

I’m not sure Kobe is some kind of good mentor, he’s too self-absorbed and competitive. Like Michael Jordan, who drove Kwame Brown to alcoholism because Jordan made a stupid draft pick.

I don’t think Rondo is a good mentor either. Nor was Jeff Green. Brad Stevens had to ask Jeff Green to step up and help James Young out, because Green never would have done so otherwise.

I don’t think Paul Pierce was some good mentor either.

Ray Allen was a great mentor for Avery Bradley just based on Ray’s work ethic and obsessive practicing patterns. Avery Bradley isn’t an amazing shooter, but I think he benefited immensely just from watching Ray Allen go about his business so professionally and with such attention to detail.

I’d guess that most stars are actually sh1tty mentors. LeBron could have mentored Andrew Wiggins, and instead he lobbied to have him traded away.

Olajuwon is a great mentor, if you pay him $800,000 for a weekend lesson.

James Harden and Dwight don’t even eat meals with their teammates, so I doubt they’re staying after practice to help out their younger teammates.

No, I would guess that the best player mentors tend to be role players, and often bottom of the roster veterans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arambone2]

 Gerald Wallace would be an ideal mentor for Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. Wallace might be a future assistant coach at the least. 

I’m not sure Kobe is some kind of good mentor, he’s too self-absorbed and competitive. Like Michael Jordan, who drove Kwame Brown to alcoholism because Jordan made a stupid draft pick.

I don’t think Rondo is a good mentor either. Nor was Jeff Green. Brad Stevens had to ask Jeff Green to step up and help James Young out, because Green never would have done so otherwise.

I don’t think Paul Pierce was some good mentor either.

Ray Allen was a great mentor for Avery Bradley just based on Ray’s work ethic and obsessive practicing patterns. Avery Bradley isn’t an amazing shooter, but I think he benefited immensely just from watching Ray Allen go about his business so professionally and with such attention to detail.

I’d guess that most stars are actually sh1tty mentors. LeBron could have mentored Andrew Wiggins, and instead he lobbied to have him traded away.

Olajuwon is a great mentor, if you pay him $800,000 for a weekend lesson.

James Harden and Dwight don’t even eat meals with their teammates, so I doubt they’re staying after practice to help out their younger teammates.

No, I would guess that the best player mentors tend to be role players, and often bottom of the roster veterans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

I agree with every word and especially the final statement.

[BallerScriptParticipant]

I agree with every word and especially the final statement.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 The problem I have with some of the things you say,is that there’s no proof at all,that LBJ is a bad leader for example. Every player wants to play with him. The last sentence s not exactly true,because for example Vince Carter is a good leader in Memphis and was a terrific player. It just happens that the best leader are usually 35 or so  years old. Duncan,Parker and Ginobili are terrific leaders as well. And for your assessments on Dwight and Harden,that comes from a joke from Motiejunas this summer. Not true

[sitlbitoParticipant]

 The problem I have with some of the things you say,is that there’s no proof at all,that LBJ is a bad leader for example. Every player wants to play with him. The last sentence s not exactly true,because for example Vince Carter is a good leader in Memphis and was a terrific player. It just happens that the best leader are usually 35 or so  years old. Duncan,Parker and Ginobili are terrific leaders as well. And for your assessments on Dwight and Harden,that comes from a joke from Motiejunas this summer. Not true

[arambone2]

 You and your problem should re-read my post. I didn’t say LeBron was a bad leader, I said he probably wasn’t a great MENTOR.

Ray Allen wanting to chase rings with LeBron doesn’t mean LeBron is a great leader, nor does it mean LeBron is a mentor to Ray Allen.

And not everybody wants to play with LeBron. Chris Bosh didn’t, and he would have left for Houston if LeBron had stayed in Miami. And plenty of vets this year chose to go to non-Cleveland teams when given the choice.

Vince Carter is now a role player, so him possibly being a good mentor to younger players in MEM doesn’t contradict what I said.

If LeBron was actually a good mentor, he would have embraced the choice to mentor Andrew Wiggins, instead of lobbying to have him traded away, for a guy who doesn’t Love playing with LeBron as much as your favorite Nike commercial might claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arambone2]

 You and your problem should re-read my post. I didn’t say LeBron was a bad leader, I said he probably wasn’t a great MENTOR.

Ray Allen wanting to chase rings with LeBron doesn’t mean LeBron is a great leader, nor does it mean LeBron is a mentor to Ray Allen.

And not everybody wants to play with LeBron. Chris Bosh didn’t, and he would have left for Houston if LeBron had stayed in Miami. And plenty of vets this year chose to go to non-Cleveland teams when given the choice.

Vince Carter is now a role player, so him possibly being a good mentor to younger players in MEM doesn’t contradict what I said.

If LeBron was actually a good mentor, he would have embraced the choice to mentor Andrew Wiggins, instead of lobbying to have him traded away, for a guy who doesn’t Love playing with LeBron as much as your favorite Nike commercial might claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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