share

Vassilis Spanoulis And Juan Carlos Navarro; 2 Of The Best European Players To Ever Live - NBA Fans: They Cannot Play In The NBA

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
Vassilis Spanoulis And Juan Carlos Navarro; 2 Of The Best European Players To Ever Live - NBA Fans: They Cannot Play In The NBA

This is something that keeps being said over and over here and in every NBA basketball forum in the world. That Vassilis Spanoulis and Juan Carlos Navarro were not good enough to play in the NBA.

Never once have I ever seen an actual legit reason given to support this claim, and any arguments made as to why are either factually wrong, or just usually totally made up and fabricated.

When that is pointed out, then the nonsense and untrue UNTRUE excuses start. Like, "his game didn't translate to the NBA", "his game is not suited to the NBA", and all of that totally and completely imaginary fantasy BS.

So, I would like to see if anyone here (since so many members here brag about their "basketball knowledge") can actually give a legit reason as to why NBA fans make this claim that these two players are not good enough to play in the NBA.

Because, even though this claim is made on every NBA fan site on the internet, and even though 90% of the peole in those sites all agree with it, never once has anyone ever given an actual correct and true reason as to why they supposedly are not good enough for the NBA.

So, give me the reasons. Go ahead.


aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
Wait, just a couple of

Wait, just a couple of minutes ago on the other thread Junk Yard Dong and I were supporting you about how we feel that Navaro was a great scorer and he could've stuck around in the league. You yourself said that the buyout money was too much for him, which is why he was forced out of the league.

I don't know if I'm alone, but I really did like Navaro's game, but had he come into the league at age 22, it would have been really beneficial to his development, and he could probably be sort of lieka Ginobili type player.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
No one said they cant play in

No one said they cant play in the nba they just didnt stick around to find out what they could of done. Also for Navarro you can blame AI for the grizz not resigning him since they rescinded their offer to him so they could sign AI which lasted what a week.

EverybodyHatesChris
EverybodyHatesChris's picture
Registered User
Joined: 01/31/2012
Posts: 29
Points: 98
Offline
If I remember correctly, Juan

If I remember correctly, Juan Carlos Navarro played in the NBA for 1 season with the grizzlies, but decided to go back to his old spanish team after his rookie year.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
^^^ He was about to resign

^^^ He was about to resign with the grizz but they later took it off the table so they could sign AI which failed miserably he later returned to spain

aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
^Actually, his buyout for his

^Actually, his buyout for his team in Spain was 10 million dollars, and Navaro said he could only play if someone offered him the full MLE for 5 years, and no one did, and he couldn't afford the buyout cost.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
his buyout was only 2.5

his buyout was only 2.5 million aamir where did you get your info he signed a 5 year deal with barc. to return to spain

heres the quote in espn:

No buyout has been completed and it's believed that the 27-year-old will have to pay his Spanish employers nearly $2.5 million for his freedom, since league rules preclude Memphis from contributing more than $500,000 to the buyout equation. Yet all signs point to those arrangements materializing by next week, even though Memphis is likely limited to signing Navarro to a short-term, low-dollar deal after bestowing a three-year, $21 million deal on free-agent center Darko Milicic.

sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story

aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
^My bad, I got it from Euro

^My bad, I got it from Euro Baller in the other thread just an hour ago.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
Oh i found what your talking

Oh i found what your talking about and heres where you got confused

He played with the Memphis Grizzlies of the NBA for one season, in 2007–08, but he signed with FC Barcelona again, in the summer of 2008, on a 5-year 12.5 million euros net income contract with a €10 million euros buyout.[2] He was named the Euroleague MVP in 2009.

If he wants to come back thats his buyout NOW back then it was 2.5 mil.

edit: its cool i thought i was missing something, honest mistake

Da1pot
Da1pot's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 1216
Points: 3208
Offline
I think JC Navarro is a very

I think JC Navarro is a very very good player who could have been an excellent player in the NBA, had he stayed. This is one of the few posts that I have to agree on you with, Euro Baller. He currently holds the distinction of being the best scorer in the world that is not in the NBA, IMO. NBA fans think he could not succeed due to the fact that he is a 6'3-6'4 SPANISH shooting guard who is not overly athletic. His craftiness and scoring ability are second to none however- on the same level as a player like Manu Ginobili (no I'm not comparing the two).

Now I haven't seen Spanoulis play at all as of late, so I'm not really entitled to have an opinion on him now, but I do remember him as rookie in 2006 on the Rockets. It just wasn't a good situation for him to succeed. He was stuck behind a lot of players in the rotation and Van Gundy just didn't wanna play him due to it being a "contract year". Both sides got impatient, and he left to go play for Panathinaikos for a much larger contract......

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5621
Points: 13315
Offline
Juan Carlos Navarro

Obviously could play in the NBA. Well. If you think I said otherwise, you are mistaken. But, Juan Carlos had a solid rookie season and than LEFT THE NBA. He did not want them, it was not that they didn't want him. The guy could have definitely been playing a decent role on a NBA team right now.

Vassillis left for many of the same reasons. He was a superstar in Greece but was having trouble getting acclimated to the NBA. I am sure he would have probably done well over time, but left the Rockets for "family reasons" and jetted back to Europe. So, people who say they cannot play in the NBA were wrong and are wrong. They both did and I feel like Navarro would have been a fantastic scoring guard over time.

But, would they playing a starring role in the NBA? Would they have had anywhere near the success they have had during their careers in Europe? I do not know if you have any evidence to support that. Are either as good as Manu Ginobili? They were both NBA role players in my estimation. They were stars in Europe. Do you have any facts to back up why this is not the case? Because I have not seen many from your end either.

The UnderKanter
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 2643
Points: 401
Offline
Differences in the NBA's style of play and the International's

NBA- Everybody is looking for the best way to get to the hoop. Its all about easy shots, post play, driving and dishing. Rarely do you see guys camp out on the three point line, if you do you will soon see yourself on the bench. Coaches in the NBA want you to move around, be active, set screens, learn to play off the ball as well as on the ball.

International-Everybody likes to shoot threes. There a lot of scorers but most of the time these scorers also know how to shoot and will rain it down from behind the arc like no tomorrow. They love to camp out behind the three point line and rarely look to drive or dish it out to others. (Does the name Rudy Fernandez or Omri Casspi ring a bell?) If an international player comes to the NBA and tries to play like he was taught in Europe, it would drive an NBA coach mad, which is why most (notice how I didn't say "all") international players do not make it in the NBA and find it would have been better off had they of stayed in Europe. (Not that its the Coach's or the player's fault, that's just the way it is)

This is why you have often found people saying that NBA is a different brand of basketball than the International leagues are. Now there are those rare International talents that have stayed in the NBA and have learned to play the game the way the NBA does and have become better for it. Names like Hedo, Peja, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Vlade Divac, Ricky Rubio, Dirk Nowitski, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing all come to mind. (For a complete list of these types of international players that can and have made it in NBA because they learned to develop, hone, and balance their rare athletic gifts please visit thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2010/01/top-20-all-time-best-international-basketball-players-in-the-nba/)

Now please take what I said with a grain of salt. Yes, there are differences between the NBA's style of basketball and International's. They are very different, so different that some (again not all) international "stars" cannot make it in the NBA. Their game is simply not suited for the NBA. Yes, there will be those rare international talents that will make it in the NBA but those are becoming few and far between. It is much more common to see a player make it big in the NBA coming from the NCAA rather than international leagues because College play is very similar to NBA's style of play. Yes, there are differences but very few. Some "young international stars" will even be smart and go to the NCAA for a couple of years and "hopefully" will make it big in the NBA.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
Navarro.s buyout was 10

Navarro.s buyout was 10 million euros, not dollars that he owed from BEFORE he came to the NBA. It would be 2.5 million euros, not dollars PER SEASON. Not just for that one season. He would have had to pay 2.5 million euros, per season for the next 4 years.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
NBA- Everybody is looking for

NBA- Everybody is looking for the best way to get to the hoop. Its all about easy shots, post play, driving and dishing. Rarely do you see guys camp out on the three point line, if you do you will soon see yourself on the bench. Coaches in the NBA want you to move around, be active, set screens, learn to play off the ball as well as on the ball.

International-Everybody likes to shoot threes. There a lot of scorers but most of the time these scorers also know how to shoot and will rain it down from behind the arc like no tomorrow. They love to camp out behind the three point line and rarely look to drive or dish it out to others. (Does the name Rudy Fernandez or Omri Casspi ring a bell?) If an international player comes to the NBA and tries to play like he was taught in Europe, it would drive an NBA coach mad, which is why most (notice how I didn't say "all") international players do not make it in the NBA and find it would have been better off had they of stayed in Europe. (Not that its the Coach's or the player's fault, that's just the way it is)

This is why you have often found people saying that NBA is a different brand of basketball than the International leagues are. Now there are those rare International talents that have stayed in the NBA and have learned to play the game the way the NBA does and have become better for it. Names like Hedo, Peja, Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Vlade Divac, Ricky Rubio, Dirk Nowitski, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing all come to mind. (For a complete list of these types of international players that can and have made it in NBA because they learned to develop, hone, and balance their rare athletic gifts please visit thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2010/01/top-20-all-time-best-international-basketball-players-in-the-nba/)

Now please take what I said with a grain of salt. Yes, there are differences between the NBA's style of basketball and International's. They are very different, so different that some (again not all) international "stars" cannot make it in the NBA. Their game is simply not suited for the NBA. Yes, there will be those rare international talents that will make it in the NBA but those are becoming few and far between. It is much more common to see a player make it big in the NBA coming from the NCAA rather than international leagues because College play is very similar to NBA's style of play. Yes, there are differences but very few. Some "young international stars" will even be smart and go to the NCAA for a couple of years and "hopefully" will make it big in the NBA.

This is not an explanation of any reason why Navarro and Spanoulis would not be stars in the NBA. Neither one of them stands at the 3 point line. They are complete offensive players. Navarro has the best floater in basketball world history and Spanoulis is one of the best driving and finishing guards in the world. Both are great at pick and roll, Spanoulis probaly THE best on the planet currently at it.

So this is just the typical NBA American bias nonsense BS.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5621
Points: 13315
Offline
European Baller

Care to address what I wrote? Or does it make enough sense for you not to be your abrasive, angry, loveable self?

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
Of course they could be stars

Of course they could be stars in the NBA. How can you even seriously ask this question if you really know basketball? The NBA is almost a zero defense league, with no physical play, and refs that do nothing but promote offense.

Spanoulis and Navarro would destroy the NBA if they were put on a team and given a Derrick Rose type role. Spanoulis is MUCH better than Derrick Rose is. I mean, MUCH BETTER.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5956
Points: 12847
Offline
BS, no one on Earth outside

BS, no one on Earth outside of LeBron is much better then Derrick Rose.

Nbanflguy
Nbanflguy's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/15/2009
Posts: 1824
Points: 8203
Offline
This is not an explanation of

"This is not an explanation of any reason why Navarro and Spanoulis would not be stars in the NBA. Neither one of them stands at the 3 point line. They are complete offensive players. Navarro has the best floater in basketball world history and Spanoulis is one of the best driving and finishing guards in the world. Both are great at pick and roll, Spanoulis probaly THE best on the planet currently at it.

So this is just the typical NBA American bias nonsense BS."

NO. This is just your European bias nonsense BS

aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
^Ok, now you're crossing the

^Ok, now you're crossing the line. I'll take you're word for it that Spanoulis is one hell of a player, but you're telling me that he's better than a guy with a 40 inch vertical, a consistent outside shot, that is one of the fastest players on the planet, one of the quickest players, the deadliest first step, kller moves at the rim, and can distribute and read the defense, and you're telling me that a guy that rode the bench for a whole season is better than one of top 3 players in the world? No.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
So far the only thing i agree

So far the only thing i agree with euroballer is what he said about wardb12's comments i mean seriously thats has to be the most ignorant comment yet...You mean to tell me international players only shoot 3s and dont look to set teammates, and find easy ways to score LMAO! REALLY?????? Euro game is more team orinated thats why the stats are so low and skewd... They dont care if you score 50 and loss, they will probably boooo you for being selfish. Overall international players have a nice set of fundamentals, footwork, and ability to draw and finish on contact(which is laughable when theyre considered soft). The game is different and you also have to take into account that their going to a whole new country,new language(even most know multiple already), adapting to their surroundings and being comfortable with their new life compared to ncaa players who already have that part done already. I totally agree with European Baller on that point that is typical bs information......as for the Spanoulis better then drose not confident on that one but then again we will never know what he was capable of doin since he didnt stick around long..

The UnderKanter
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 2643
Points: 401
Offline
^You are just as biased as you claim that I am

^ You know what European Baller, I'd say your just about as biased as you claim that I am. I was not trying to downgrade Navarro or Spanoulis in any way, but I don't think you realize how much a culture change it is to come to America being born and living your whole life in Europe.

Let me tell you something about me that you may be surprised to know: I lived for two years of my life in Chile. I was not born in Chile, I was born in the US. I was taught Spanish before I left, but the language they spoke in Chile was not what they taught me. It was a faster and more experienced type of spanish with its own slang words and other customs more formally known as Castellano. Every european player, no matter how good they may be at basketball, if they decide to come to America to play in the NBA they have to go through this culture change.They have to learn to speak a new language fluently. They have to learn how to act around americans, which let to tell me is a lot different than living and acting around people of your own native tongue. When I was in Chile it took me about 6 months to learn the language and actually become somewhat fluent. But even then I had to practice it and work at it and seek every opportunity I possibly could to speak with a native of the Spanish language. I had to do all this while still doing my job. (Which I will not care to share right now because it is none of any your guys' business to know.) My point is that when a international basketball player comes to America to play in the NBA they not only have to learn a different way to play in the NBA but they also have to learn a new language which is very different than what they were taught in their native country. (Every language is spoken fast, every langauge has its own slang words and customs to it that take awhile to get down.) They also have to learn a new culture, how to interact with other americans. Living in a foreign country is not as easy as you might think. Because of my experience in Chile I have a new found respect for anybody who was born in a different country other than the US who decides to come and live in America instead of thier native country. I know what it takes and I know its not easy, and on top of this they have to learn a new way to play basketball. It takes a lot of patience, hard work and perseverance, so much that some international players would just rather go back to their native country, and I don't blame them.

Like I said I wanted to you take what I said with a grain of salt. I hope you know what that means, because I'm not going to describe it to you, but your response definitely did not demonstrate that. If you have the audacity to say that I know nothing about what it takes to live in a foreign country and on top of that learn to play basketball a different way (after me telling you about my experience in Chile), than you don't deserve to even be on this site at all.

We know more than you think, The NBA is not just an all offense league, it is not just a soft league, it is a league that knows how to play both sides of the game. I'm sure there are international players that know how to play both sides of the game, but to have to learn a whole new culture that is so different,so foreign to them, puts a lot of pressure on anybody.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
^^^ first i would to

^^^ first i would to apoligize because i did not read the last paragraph in your first post, second i was born in italy and then came to america and i understand what it takes to adapt to a new country and now i have to readapt since im going back. We actually have the same mindset on international play ans states some of he same reason. Maybe thats what happens when you fail to read long posts throughly lol even though some of the things you state were out there talent wise

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5621
Points: 13315
Offline
Oh, wardb

He does say some pretty out there things. I did not really agree with his certain parts of his analysis either. Though, that last observation was pretty solid. But, European Baller, if you had any want to make other people as knowledgeable as you are, you're doing it wrong. Teach and relate, don't slam and put down. Honestly, it is incredibly hard to take someone seriously when all they do is try to insult your intelligence as a rebuttal, without using any basketball to back it up.

Time and time again, I have wanted you to actually teach people about these things you are so passionate about. Your answer is always to just throw out more claims and insults. Does this really promote awareness or respect for your cause? Does not seem to, in the least. To say that Juan Carlos Navarro would be Derrick Rose if given the same role, that just seems brutally unrealistic.

He is an excellent player, but there is incredibly little to back up your claim. Also, riddle me this. Linas Kleiza. Josh Childress. True, they never won a Greek title (though Childress got to the finals both times, second with Linas) and never won a Euroleague championship. But, were they not incredibly high level Euroleague and Greek league players? Both of them are role guys in the NBA. ROLE GUYS.

What is your answer why these other players would be different? Because, while defense is definitely different in Europe, people tend to shoot worse in the NBA. A lot worse. Can you respond to this with actual basketball reasoning? I already know you think I am retarded, an idiot, racist, insane and all of your usual standard insults that do nothing to get your point across or convince people you are not a troll. Not making fun of you, just trying to understand why you have to be the way you constantly are.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
BS, no one on Earth outside

BS, no one on Earth outside of LeBron is much better then Derrick Rose

First of all, LeBron is a very overrated payer. He can't score against even a half zone defense. Just ask the Mavs.

Secondly, Spanoulis is way better than Rose is. There is one thing Rose does better at basketball than Spanoulis. Dunk. Spanoulis has him beat in every other basketball aspect.

If the Bulls replaced Rose with Spanoulis, they would win the NBA title without much difficulty.

Rose is one of the most extreme examples of the NBA creating a fake manufactured "superstar".

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
^Ok, now you're crossing the

^Ok, now you're crossing the line. I'll take you're word for it that Spanoulis is one hell of a player, but you're telling me that he's better than a guy with a 40 inch vertical, a consistent outside shot, that is one of the fastest players on the planet, one of the quickest players, the deadliest first step, kller moves at the rim, and can distribute and read the defense, and you're telling me that a guy that rode the bench for a whole season is better than one of top 3 players in the world? No.

Derrick Rose is nowhere near as good as Spanoulis is.

aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
^What evidence do you have?

^What evidence do you have? If Spanoulis was really that good, GMs would be banging at his door day and night.

Nbanflguy
Nbanflguy's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/15/2009
Posts: 1824
Points: 8203
Offline
If the Bulls replaced Rose

If the Bulls replaced Rose with Spanoulis, they would win the NBA title without much difficulty.

Rose is one of the most extreme examples of the NBA creating a fake manufactured "superstar".

I dont even know what to say to this. Rose has god given ability and talent and worked his a$$ off to get to where he is. He is a superstar

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5956
Points: 12847
Offline
That is a lie. It's so absurd

That is a lie. It's so absurd that I don't need any kind of evidence whatsoever. No one on the face of the Earth who knows basketball would agree with that insane statement. No, don't post some retarded quote form the Olympics either, because Derrick Rose is the best player at the PG position alive today. LeBron James is the best player at any position in the world today. Both of them are better then anyone in Europe. Don't think for one second either, that because I refuse to debate this with you, that I can't. Don't even respond to this. I don't care to hear some dumb quote or some garbage made up excuse that holds no weight. Just shut up and go somewhere else.

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
I just quoted that on the pek

I just quoted that on the pek thread after he said i was making him thinking greek players the best player in europe maybe i should have said world because he is really that dilusional

Tongue-Out-Like-23
Tongue-Out-Like-23's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/16/2010
Posts: 8307
Points: 11860
Offline
"Spanoulis is MUCH better

"Spanoulis is MUCH better than Derrick Rose is. I mean, MUCH BETTER."

Just when he had finally made a post that made sense...

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
^ You know what European

^ You know what European Baller, I'd say your just about as biased as you claim that I am. I was not trying to downgrade Navarro or Spanoulis in any way, but I don't think you realize how much a culture change it is to come to America being born and living your whole life in Europe.

Let me tell you something about me that you may be surprised to know: I lived for two years of my life in Chile. I was not born in Chile, I was born in the US. I was taught Spanish before I left, but the language they spoke in Chile was not what they taught me. It was a faster and more experienced type of spanish with its own slang words and other customs more formally known as Castellano. Every european player, no matter how good they may be at basketball, if they decide to come to America to play in the NBA they have to go through this culture change.They have to learn to speak a new language fluently. They have to learn how to act around americans, which let to tell me is a lot different than living and acting around people of your own native tongue. When I was in Chile it took me about 6 months to learn the language and actually become somewhat fluent. But even then I had to practice it and work at it and seek every opportunity I possibly could to speak with a native of the Spanish language. I had to do all this while still doing my job. (Which I will not care to share right now because it is none of any your guys' business to know.) My point is that when a international basketball player comes to America to play in the NBA they not only have to learn a different way to play in the NBA but they also have to learn a new language which is very different than what they were taught in their native country. (Every language is spoken fast, every langauge has its own slang words and customs to it that take awhile to get down.) They also have to learn a new culture, how to interact with other americans. Living in a foreign country is not as easy as you might think. Because of my experience in Chile I have a new found respect for anybody who was born in a different country other than the US who decides to come and live in America instead of thier native country. I know what it takes and I know its not easy, and on top of this they have to learn a new way to play basketball. It takes a lot of patience, hard work and perseverance, so much that some international players would just rather go back to their native country, and I don't blame them.

Like I said I wanted to you take what I said with a grain of salt. I hope you know what that means, because I'm not going to describe it to you, but your response definitely did not demonstrate that. If you have the audacity to say that I know nothing about what it takes to live in a foreign country and on top of that learn to play basketball a different way (after me telling you about my experience in Chile), than you don't deserve to even be on this site at all.

We know more than you think, The NBA is not just an all offense league, it is not just a soft league, it is a league that knows how to play both sides of the game. I'm sure there are international players that know how to play both sides of the game, but to have to learn a whole new culture that is so different,so foreign to them, puts a lot of pressure on anybody.

No you misunderstand me. Navarro did not like Memphis and his family did not like it. His family was moving back to Spain and was not staying in the US, even if he decided to. I mean, he lived his whole life in Barcelona. This may be THE best standard of living of any city on the planet. Then he went to Memphis, which is pretty much awful.

Spanoulis had a big problem because his mother was sick with personal problems and he needed to help her, so he had to return to Greece to help her.

I am not talking about these issues.

What I am talking about is, NBA fan base, by at least 90%, maybe more like 99.9% really, claims that they are "not good enough to play in the NBA". This is what I am talking about. The claim by the NBA fan base that these guys cannot play in the NBA.

I will give you an analogy. It is like if all the European fan base of basketball almost was saying that Steve Nash and Kobe could not play in the Euroleague.

I've never seen anyone give a legit reason for why van Gundy would not play Spanoulis. It's really crazy that players like Head and Lucas played over him. Whether you can accept it or not, it REALLY makes it look like the NBA is on purpose trying to sabotage the careers of certain European players when stuff like that happens.

Explain this. When Van Gundy was asked about Spanoulis at the end of traininc camp he said he would be an all star in the NBA for 10 years and it was impossible for to him not have a successful NBA career if he stayed healthy.

Within about 2 months, he was saying that Spanoulis would never see the floor as long as he was the coach. It's a bit odd. It's also a bit odd that NBA teams refused to give Navarro the MLE. Surely you can see this? Navarro comes, as a rookie, adjusting to a new style of play (it takes all the Euroleague players a year to adjust)......and in 30 games as a starter, he averaged 13 points in 30 minutes, that's 16 a game per 36. As a rookie, in the first year of adjusting to the different rules. Most European players explode in their second year, after they have learned the NBA rules.

He could not get a single team in the entire NBA to offer him the MLE..........look at how man complete SCRUBS, I mean total SCRUBS that are American players get the MLE every year. You may not se it, but there is something that does not add up here.

Even Jasikevicius' story in the NBA is fishy.

Nbanflguy
Nbanflguy's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/15/2009
Posts: 1824
Points: 8203
Offline
His family was moving back to

His family was moving back to Spain and was not staying in the US, even if he decided to. I mean, he lived his whole life in Barcelona. This may be THE best standard of living of any city on the planet. Then he went to Memphis, which is pretty much awful.

Everything and everyone from Europe is the best on the PLANET now? Why are you even here? You dont like the NBA, you dont like america, and you dont like us. GTFO

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
So why did he come to the nba

So why did he come to the nba if he hated living here? he could have signed anywhere he wanted after his rookie season

Nbanflguy
Nbanflguy's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/15/2009
Posts: 1824
Points: 8203
Offline
You blame everyone else when

You blame everyone else when a overseas player doesnt succeed in the NBA. Every thought that maybe the player deserves blame to? I know I know, it sounds just plain crazy, but it is just a thought.

Grandmama
Grandmama's picture
Registered User
Joined: 09/20/2009
Posts: 2237
Points: 4308
Offline
Quit feeding the Euro troll,

Quit feeding the Euro troll, what the hell is wrong with you guys. Just don't even comment when he posts. Let him live in his own little world...

Shanetaylor95
Registered User
Joined: 02/02/2012
Posts: 90
Points: 111
Offline
hey

hey European Baller i hate to bring this up , but europe sucks dick

Scottoant93
Scottoant93's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 2403
Points: 4964
Offline
Congrats!

^^^^so your the american version of europeanballer.. What makes what you said there any better then what he has been saying...Grow the hell up and learn to respect everyone

marcusfizer21
marcusfizer21's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/09/2009
Posts: 2570
Points: 4775
Offline
good Lord

This is an idiot you are arguing with. Spanoulis is better than Rose? Get the F out of here, European Baller. Your European ass stinks!

By the way, JC Navarro can ball in the NBA.. If he wants to return, I'm pretty sure he'll find a LOT of suitors in the NBA.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
That is a lie. It's so absurd

That is a lie. It's so absurd that I don't need any kind of evidence whatsoever. No one on the face of the Earth who knows basketball would agree with that insane statement. No, don't post some retarded quote form the Olympics either, because Derrick Rose is the best player at the PG position alive today. LeBron James is the best player at any position in the world today. Both of them are better then anyone in Europe. Don't think for one second either, that because I refuse to debate this with you, that I can't. Don't even respond to this. I don't care to hear some dumb quote or some garbage made up excuse that holds no weight. Just shut up and go somewhere else.

You have never seen a Euroleague game in your entire life if you actually believe this. LeBron in Euroleague is nothing more than a rich man's Childress. Rose in Euroleague...........he would be nothing but an average player probably.

Nbanflguy
Nbanflguy's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/15/2009
Posts: 1824
Points: 8203
Offline
You have never seen a

You have never seen a Euroleague game in your entire life if you actually believe this. LeBron in Euroleague is nothing more than a rich man's Childress. Rose in Euroleague...........he would be nothing but an average player probably.

You have never seen a NBA game in your entire life if you actually believe this.

McDunkin
McDunkin's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/17/2010
Posts: 7492
Points: 28398
Offline
European Baller...taking more

European Baller...taking more L's than Greece's economy since 2010

Bad Dog
Bad Dog's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/22/2011
Posts: 126
Points: 317
Offline
this is the image i have of european baller

Don't feed the trolls fellas. It's painfully obvious that this guy is just trying to get everyone's attention........and for the record MOST (not all) euro players never make it in the NBA because they are too slow and too soft.............And they flop too damn much too!

The UnderKanter
Registered User
Joined: 06/12/2009
Posts: 2643
Points: 401
Offline
Take some constructive criticism, European Baller

Okay European Baller you want a reason why Navarro never got the MLE? You want a reason why Spanoulis never got to play a minute as long as Van Gundy was his coach even though he said "he would be an allstar in the NBA for ten years and it was impossible for him not to have a successful NBA career if he stayed healthy"?

I'll give you one; take a look at what you said in that same post, "Navarro did not like Memphis and his family did not like it. His family was moving back to Spain and was not moving to the US even if he decided to"? There's your reason right there, If Navarro did not want to be in Memphis then why should they play him? It is awfully hard to play someone if they never want to be there in the first place. When other NBA teams saw that he didn't want to be in Memphis, they feared that he wouldn't want to be in their city either or with their team. So why they give him the MLE if he didn't want to be there in the first place?

I'm sure the same is true for Spanoulis and Jasikevicous.

But you know what I'm done fighting with you. This is why I hate some posters, never willing to take constructive criticism when it is staring them in the face. You claim that European players are so great, that Lebron and Rose are inferior to them. Well if they are so great then they would be humble with their surroundings and deal with it. That's what I had to deal with in Chile. Do you really think their standard of living was better than the US' was? Of coure it wasn't, but did I care, no, I had better and more important things to worry about. And if I Navarro, Spanoulis, or Jasikevicous want to come back to the NBA and play again, than I'm sure any team would be willing to take them, that is of course if they want to live in their city even though the standard of living may be so much less than that of Barcelona. Like I said though I am done fighting with you, because if your not willing to take constructive criticism than there is no way that I or anybody can convince you. (That is why no one can give you a legitamate answer, because you aren't willing to hear it)

aamir543
aamir543's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/11/2009
Posts: 5063
Points: 5542
Offline
So Euroballer, you're trying

So Euroballer, you're trying to tell me that with Lebron's size, athleticism, speed, quickness, handles, and solid shot that he would be AVERAGE in a league where very few players make the NBA? Get out of here.

er1csh3n
er1csh3n's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/25/2011
Posts: 75
Points: 131
Offline
Can we please stop

Can we please stop commenting? It's obvious this guy spends hours writing these posts. How about we not give him the satisfaction of us actually arguing with him and leave his posts and comments unscathed. This guy is bound to get bored....or have no life and keep making these posts.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5621
Points: 13315
Offline
European Baller

LeBron in Euroleague would be incredibly dominant. I have little to no doubt. To say otherwise means you are absolutely delusional. Kobe Bryant in Euroleague would be phenomenal as well. Explain how Bob McAdoo came over to Europe after he had finished playing in the NBA and dominated (not making that up). He won back to back Euroleague championships with Olympia Milano, scoring 21 points in the 1987 final, 25 and 12 in 1988. Bob was obviously a fantastic player, but he was in his mid 30's and had been a bench scorer on competitive teams, not one of the best players in the league at the time. Explanation?

Man, it is obvious you are trying to get a rise out of us, but you are everything you are calling us. A total hypocrite that makes up "facts". Dude, I have a lot of respect for European players and professional leagues in Europe, but you seem to hate the NBA anyway. If a Greek player were in the NBA, would you even care? It seems like you dislike watching the NBA's style and think the European game is superior. That is obviously your preference. I will say, I believe the NBA has some athletes with a combination of strength and speed that Europe does not.

In no way do I believe any NBA player could go to Europe and dominate, that has not happened. However, I think even you have to admit that Josh Childress and Linas Kleiza were high level European players. Anthony Parker was an absolute beast and was a superstar in Europe. I am sure even you would admit to that. Well, for as skilled as Anthony is, he is a NBA rotation guy. He is not Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. Who all do exceptionally well in International play, which uses the same rules as Euroleague. So, any explanation for that? Let me guess, I am ignorant NBA slime? Thought so. Well, at least I can admit when I am wrong, that makes one of us. You are not wrong about everything, but your logic is incredibly flawed and you dodge more questions than Ronald Reagan at a press conference for the Iran Contra Affair.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
They don't allow travels and

They don't allow travels and palming in the Euroleague. Their is almost always a 100% zone defense being played. The lane is packed with two 6-10 guys all game long. The refs allow contact and don't just send you the free throw line because you have a shoe contract.

The game is a lot more physical than the NBA is. The guards are considerably bigger and stronger than NBA guards are.

Defense is extremely emphasized. There are only a small number of players that get away without playing D in the Euroleague. The Mavs, with a roster that would be unathletic and slow by Euroleague standards, and old, and that would be BAD defensively by Euroleague standards, basically shut down LeBron using a HALF zone defense. Not a real one like they use in Euroleague.

And take away the no hand check rule, the defensive 3 seconds................

There could not be any two NBA players that would suffer more than LeBron and Rose if they went to the Euroleague. If ANYONE thinks those two guys would roll in the Euroleague, they have absolute NO knowledge about the game of basketball at all.

This isn't Durant, or Nash, or Kobe going to the Euroleague. This is Rose and LeBron, the two most dependent players on the NBA rules and reffing.

Neither one of them would be close to being the best player in the Euroleague. I honestly don't think Rose would even be anything much more than above average AT BEST CASE scenario.

If you put them on some crap team, yeah they could put up some stats. But in any good club they would not stand out at all. LeBron's 4th quarters against the Mavs in the finals, would be happening ALL the time there.

And for all this bragging about Rose, he absolutely SUCKED when he played for Team USA, and that was with the new FIBA national team competition rules, where Team USA is allowed to travel, and palm the ball, and the opposing team's are no longer allowed to hand check them. With all of that, he sucked.

Bow, put him in Euroleague, which still uses the OLD FIBA rules, where hand checking is allowed, and you can't travel or palm the ball..................yeah sure. And you can forget about most of the LeBron highlight dunks in the Euroleague, because he would be called for travels on just about all of the ones that are not lobs.

And it's really hilarious how NBA fans can't even grasp that LeBron travels almost every time he touches the ball. They do NOT allow that in the Euroleague. In fact, they do not even allow the old school NBA travels. Even how the NBA played in the 80s......those would be called travels in the Euroleague.

You cannot make an offensive move until you dribble the ball, it hits the floor, and you have NOT moved either foot. In the NBA, you can just make your first step before you even tried to dribble. You are allowed ONLY 2 steps after a dribble. Not 3, not 2.5, 2. In the NBA they give you 3, and 4 if you are a "star". If you catch a pass in stride, you only get the half step that was in the process of the catch, and then 2 dribbles (not 4-5 steps like you get in the NBA). The rules are enforced pretty strictly, even for American NBA players.

It's absolutely comical to see NBA fans claiming LeBron would rock the Euroleague. Like I said, he would be a super version of Josh Childress, and that's it.

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
Explain how Bob McAdoo came

Explain how Bob McAdoo came over to Europe after he had finished playing in the NBA and dominated (not making that up). He won back to back Euroleague championships with Olympia Milano, scoring 21 points in the 1987 final, 25 and 12 in 1988. Bob was obviously a fantastic player, but he was in his mid 30's and had been a bench scorer on competitive teams, not one of the best players in the league at the time. Explanation?

Oh I see, so now the Euroleague of today is the same as the Euroleague of 25 to 30 years ago............Right. Nice one. McAdoo wasn't even the best player back then. Let's see,

Divac, Petrovic, Galis (the ACTUAL best American player in Europe then, and you probably don't even know who he is), Giannakis, Djordevic, Marciulionis, Sabonis, Kurtinatis, Danilovic, Epi, Schmidt, Kukoc, Radja......all better than McAdoo.

Besides, if you want other "old players" Galis was also old, and was better. You also had Dalipagic and Meneghin who were old and were still considered very good players there. Being "old" does not mean anything. In fact, it was still Meneghin's team.

And let us not pretend that McAdoo was not a great player. He was a great NBA player also. OMG, he played well in Europe..........

And this is an incredibly stupid and wrong argument anyway. Because back then Galis was averageing like 37-42 points a game in Euroleague. Do you actually think that he would average those same numbers today? REALLY? Do you REALLY think the league is at the same level now?

European Baller
Registered User
Joined: 07/31/2009
Posts: 570
Points: -2883
Offline
In no way do I believe any

In no way do I believe any NBA player could go to Europe and dominate, that has not happened. However, I think even you have to admit that Josh Childress and Linas Kleiza were high level European players. Anthony Parker was an absolute beast and was a superstar in Europe. I am sure even you would admit to that. Well, for as skilled as Anthony is, he is a NBA rotation guy. He is not Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. Who all do exceptionally well in International play, which uses the same rules as Euroleague. So, any explanation for that? Let me guess, I am ignorant NBA slime? Thought so. Well, at least I can admit when I am wrong, that makes one of us. You are not wrong about everything, but your logic is incredibly flawed and you dodge more questions than Ronald Reagan at a press conference for the Iran Contra Affair.

First of all, Parker won 2 championships in Euroleague. NOT 3. I have already seen that lie posted here. I guess Americans really believe that wikipedia is true no matter what.

Secondly, Parker was NOT the best player on his own team. The best player on Maccabio was Jasikevicius. Third, Parker has been an NBA STARTER for 6 years, and it's been on playoff teams, even teams that went to the conference finals.

Fourth, Parker came to the NBA after his prime. He was already in his 30s. Do you actually think that the current Parker is the same player as then?

Five - The top budget in Euroleague back then was 10 million euros. Today it is 30 million euros, and 90% of the teams in the league have budgets of at least 10 million euros. That same Maccabi team that won 2 titles then, you be lucky to make the Top 16 now. News flash,since that time teams started investing HUGE sums of money in Euroleague. Panathinaikos and Olympiacos.......you know what their budgets were then when Parker "dominated"? 3-4 million euros. Let me repeat that, 3-4 million euros.

Olympiacos had a budget of $70 million dollars in 2009. Yeah, it's the same exact league now as it was then...................

Six - Parker did not "dominant". No one has "dominated" in Euroleague since back in the days of Galis and Petrovic.

Seven - Parker went from averaging 15 points a game in the Euroleague, what you call "being a true superstar, an absolute beast" and any other completely and totally made up BS imaginary nonsense you can think of, to averaging 12 points a game in the NBA, on a playoff team, and 15 points a game in the NBA playoffs.

2006: Anthony Parker = 15 points a game in Euroleague ("superstar, absolute beast", etc. BS)

2007: Anthony Parker = 12 points a game in the NBA, 15 points a game in NBA playoffs ("barely a rotation player")

You are the exact definition of NBA only fan. A person who has never seen a Euroleague game, knows nothing about it, but pretends to be an expert on it. The first dead give away is when you start mentioning people like McAdoo and Parker..............and the funny thing is that you do not even have the sense to even look up the real info before you make stupid claims.

Parker was a "absolute beast superstar" with his 15 a game in the Euroleague and a mere "at best rotation guy" with his 15 points a game in the NBA playoffs.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 8332
Points: 16980
Offline
You really don't think Lebron

You really don't think Lebron or Rose would adapt his dribbling habits if the calls were going a certain way? It's not like they can't dribble. The NBA is lax with those calls, but those guys could be just as effective dribbling in a more traditional manner.

They are also two of the most physcialy impressive guys in the NBA, if you're going to call out NBA players for not being able to take contact, then you're picking the wrong two.

mikeyvthedon
mikeyvthedon's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 5621
Points: 13315
Offline
IT IS ALL RELATIVE!

The reason he is a superstar and dominant in Euroleague averaging 15 points per game is because you most of all know people in Euroleague do not score 30 ppg. Of course the league has changed, but you leave out that the NBA has also improved. Deron Williams did not play against Euroleague competition, but he was starting to do quite well and make a huge impact. It is an adjustment both ways, but LeBron has been AWESOME under international rules.

Anthony Parker was definitely a superstar in Euroleague because how the league works, broham. He was 7th in scoring at 16 ppg and lead his team to a Euroleague title in 2003-04. He was a two time Euroleague MVP, but I am sure you have some excuse for that meaning how it was fixed or something. That is why he was dominant there and not dominant in the NBA. Theo Populoukas is a superstar who has never averaged 10 ppg in a Euroleague campaign. It is relative to the league.

Love to see you argue this one as, "you pig headed Americans think basketball is not a team game" when you said Ricky Rubio basically was a non factor on Barca when they won the title. Why not list the players you feel are better than LeBron James or Kobe Bryant? Do you think Michael Jordan would have sucked in Euroleague, too?

My point was not that Bob McAdoo was not an awesome player, but he was freaking 35! That was far past his prime and if he did not dominate, he did extremely well. Explain these names:

  • Dominique Wilkins: Was 36 when he won the Euroleague championship with Panathinaikos. Yes, they had Stojko Vrankovic as well who went on to be a back-up in the NBA but was a good center. Still, he was pretty freaking awesome.
  • Jeremy Pargo: Leading scorer of the Euroleague runner-up Maccabi Electra team, back-up PG averaging 3.3 ppg in the NBA. Jeremy is awesome, but is he Deron Williams or Derrick Rose? Would not say so.
  • Trajan Langdon: This guy was an assassin of a shooter, but he had much more success in Euroleague than in the NBA. Safe to say, he was a star in Euroleague and at best a role guy in the NBA. When he left, he was not even that.
  • Kobe Bryant: Adopt international rules incredibly well. Kobe is good at literally everything and I have no doubt he would succeed in any league and I would not be surprised if he went overseas after he retired for a short while. Give me any reason why Kobe would not be excellent and tell me who is better? If you bring up that one game against Barca, that is one game and an exhibition at that.
  • LeBron James and Dwyane Wade: Shoot over 60% and over 45% from 3 in the 2008 Olympics. Safe to say, no one was really stopping those guys. They seemed to adjust to international rules just fine. LeBron loved snatching rebounds as soon as they hit the rim. He also travels a lot, on defense. Yep, carries his weight especially well and I think he and Dwyane would manage quite well.

Yes, I know that calls and focuses in Europe and 100% Colombian pure cocaine. The thing is, basketball is also about staying in front of people. Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James are really fast people. They create extraordinarily well for themselves and others. Am I saying they would take a bunch of rag tags on their backs and get to the championship? YES! Well, no, I am not. But, they would make things a lot easier for some team and would contribute in numerous ways, plus I think there shooting would not sacrifice.

Nikos Galis was a really, really good player as well. But, was he not also a superstar? Or star? Did he not also dominate? You can have more than two dominant players or superstars on a team. Either way, you are just using that as an excuse not to get to the real issues which is that your claims hold incredibly little base.

Why do you care what "people" say about the best European players playing in the NBA? The fact is, there have been dominant European players in the NBA. The thing is, when Navarro and Spanoulis had there chance, they were not superstars. I think there has been more of a case of good NBA players doing great in Europe than vice versa. I have never heard a player say the NBA is not as difficult to play in as Euroleague.

Players tend to average fewer points in Euroleague because for one, there are fewer minutes played and for another, they have more substitutions and play fewer minutes. In general, teams score fewer points. So, if you were to adjust the pace of play, Anthony Parker's 16 is considerably more than 12 in the NBA. 40 minutes means fewer points than 48. CSKA Moscow is leading Euroleague with 85 ppg right now. That would be the equivalent of 102 points in more minutes. So, that explains a lot of why Euroleague "superstar" numbers and players are different than the NBA.

Can you name me one international player who was not incredibly young when they were in the Euroleague who has improved their shooting average in the NBA? You seem to know it all, so it is impossible to have a logical worthwhile discussion with you. But, just throwing in that while you have a point about a few things, your view appears to be more delusions of grandeur than anything. By the way, 2010 World Championships? USA won. Did they cheat or something? Or are they supposed to win so you are never wrong when you claim they are going to lose? You could be a really good poster if you ever opened your mind to anything anyone else had to say, like I feel many have tried to do with you.

RSS: Syndicate content