[Lotto StudParticipant]

The Utah Jazz have came to an agreement with Alec Burks for a 4-year $42 million extension. Now with this being etched in stone, the intriguing part of the deal is what’s in question for the odd man out. Over the summer, Gordon Hayward was retained with a 4-year $63 million deal which secures the SG spot for sure. As I dig even further into what lies ahead for the longevity of Utah’s future backcourt, one most certainly has to think Trey Burke will be the guy out once his rookie deal is up. Too much stock is riding into Dante Exum’s potential right now for the Jazz not to be tipping us off this soon into the direction they are heading in.

Jazz fans, I most certainly would like to get the NBA Inside Stuff from you all.

What do you all think or know of the plans heading forward?

 

[[email protected]Participant]

Trey will be the PG, Gordon Hayward at one wing and then Alec or Dante will earn the other wing, looser comes off the bench as a starter minute 6man.

Ideally those 4 split almost all of the 3 perimeter spot minutes and Hood or someone else gets the rest as a reserve SF.

[[email protected]Participant]

Trey will be the PG, Gordon Hayward at one wing and then Alec or Dante will earn the other wing, looser comes off the bench as a starter minute 6man.

Ideally those 4 split almost all of the 3 perimeter spot minutes and Hood or someone else gets the rest as a reserve SF.

[butidonthavemoney]

It’s too early to tell what the Jazz will do with their backcourt. They certainly aren’t in a position where they have to make a decision any time soon.

What we know now is that:

• Dante Exum is at least a couple years away from being an above average starting point guard.
• Unless Hayward, Kanter and/or Favors step up big this season, Utah will need the scoring abilities of Burks and Burke in the starting lineup for the foreseeable future.
• With the exception of Kanter, all the important pieces are locked in for at least a few years.
• The current starting unit can’t play defense for shit.

Trey Burke is a solid starter right now. He’s confident on the court, can run the pick-and-roll, can make free throws, and can make open jump shots. His biggest faults last season involved his poor shot-selection, poor defense, and poor finishing ability (he has been utilizing a floater more this year, which should help mask this one). All things considered, he’s not the reason the Jazz suck. No reason to write him off yet.

Dante Exum, on the other hand, isn’t great at anything yet. He’s creative and has excellent vision, though his loose handle and lack of experience/confidence hold even these attributes back. The potential is off the charts, but he has a long way to go and there’s no guarantee he’ll ever become a great player. Most Jazz fans figure he’ll be the team’s starting point guard in a few years, but with Trey Burke already filling that role, Exum’s should have to earn it. They should choose between the two when they have to, and not a minute sooner.

Alec Burks should be leading the second unit, surrounded by shooters. However, if the Jazz are not going to be a good team this season, they might as well give him long look as a starter. Not a lot of better options at the moment, anyway.

I really want to see a starting unit of:

Dante Exum
Gordon Hayward
Stanley Johnson
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gobert

in a few years. With their expected development (and at least one player unexpectedly developing into a major scoring threat), I could see that team seriously competing in the playoffs. The defense should be present, and Burks and Hood would lead a strong bench.

But again, it’s too early. The only major looming decision that Utah has to make any time soon is what to do with Kanter. Not enough information to speculate seriously on anything else yet.

 

[butidonthavemoney]

It’s too early to tell what the Jazz will do with their backcourt. They certainly aren’t in a position where they have to make a decision any time soon.

What we know now is that:

• Dante Exum is at least a couple years away from being an above average starting point guard.
• Unless Hayward, Kanter and/or Favors step up big this season, Utah will need the scoring abilities of Burks and Burke in the starting lineup for the foreseeable future.
• With the exception of Kanter, all the important pieces are locked in for at least a few years.
• The current starting unit can’t play defense for shit.

Trey Burke is a solid starter right now. He’s confident on the court, can run the pick-and-roll, can make free throws, and can make open jump shots. His biggest faults last season involved his poor shot-selection, poor defense, and poor finishing ability (he has been utilizing a floater more this year, which should help mask this one). All things considered, he’s not the reason the Jazz suck. No reason to write him off yet.

Dante Exum, on the other hand, isn’t great at anything yet. He’s creative and has excellent vision, though his loose handle and lack of experience/confidence hold even these attributes back. The potential is off the charts, but he has a long way to go and there’s no guarantee he’ll ever become a great player. Most Jazz fans figure he’ll be the team’s starting point guard in a few years, but with Trey Burke already filling that role, Exum’s should have to earn it. They should choose between the two when they have to, and not a minute sooner.

Alec Burks should be leading the second unit, surrounded by shooters. However, if the Jazz are not going to be a good team this season, they might as well give him long look as a starter. Not a lot of better options at the moment, anyway.

I really want to see a starting unit of:

Dante Exum
Gordon Hayward
Stanley Johnson
Derrick Favors
Rudy Gobert

in a few years. With their expected development (and at least one player unexpectedly developing into a major scoring threat), I could see that team seriously competing in the playoffs. The defense should be present, and Burks and Hood would lead a strong bench.

But again, it’s too early. The only major looming decision that Utah has to make any time soon is what to do with Kanter. Not enough information to speculate seriously on anything else yet.

 

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

Spot on on most things – no immediate decision on our PG and wing players is required at the moment, they have all been tied with long term contracts and we have the time to evaluate and decide later, no need to rush it. The deadline for Burke’s(and Gobert’s) extensions is in 2 years time. That means that Dante Exum and Burke will have 2 full seasons to show what they can do. Even though Exum’s potential is off the charts, the possibility that he will simply never pan out as a star is real. If we don’t see the improvements that would make us more comfortable with going forward with Exum by the end of year 2 of his rookie contract, Burke could be an option. The problem is that Burke hasn’t exactly lit it up so far, either. So to put it short – right now we just don’t know enough. By the same time 2016 we should have much more information to be able to make a decision with what way we are going to go. It might happen that we want both of them… or neither… or just one of them. I personally don’t see Exum as a SG, to me he looks like a PG, so the Burks extension doesn’t influence the Exum/Burks situation much.

What has to be pointed out, though, is that a lot of people think that Burks has DeMar Derozan type of ceiling and if this happens it’s unrealistic to think that he won’t be starting. I think the Jazz signed his 42M contract with the idea that he will be a starter.

We definitely need an elite perimeter defender and Stanley Johnson looks like a great option for the future there, but if we get him and try to make him a starter, I don’t know if we can afford having Burks on the bench. Also I don’t know if Favors-Gobert front-court will work. To me it looks monstrous in defense, but also horrendous in offense with the complete lack of spacing.

Next draft will be really interesting for the Jazz… we have 2 real needs – stretch 4/shooting big(assuming Kanter is gone, which is very probable) and perimeter defender. As you pointed out, Stanley Johnson seems like a great wing defender and the options for the 4/5 could be Towns or Porzingis. Next year’s draft will tell us a lot about what the front office and coaching staff think about the possibilities of the current roster and where they think we need most help.

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

Spot on on most things – no immediate decision on our PG and wing players is required at the moment, they have all been tied with long term contracts and we have the time to evaluate and decide later, no need to rush it. The deadline for Burke’s(and Gobert’s) extensions is in 2 years time. That means that Dante Exum and Burke will have 2 full seasons to show what they can do. Even though Exum’s potential is off the charts, the possibility that he will simply never pan out as a star is real. If we don’t see the improvements that would make us more comfortable with going forward with Exum by the end of year 2 of his rookie contract, Burke could be an option. The problem is that Burke hasn’t exactly lit it up so far, either. So to put it short – right now we just don’t know enough. By the same time 2016 we should have much more information to be able to make a decision with what way we are going to go. It might happen that we want both of them… or neither… or just one of them. I personally don’t see Exum as a SG, to me he looks like a PG, so the Burks extension doesn’t influence the Exum/Burks situation much.

What has to be pointed out, though, is that a lot of people think that Burks has DeMar Derozan type of ceiling and if this happens it’s unrealistic to think that he won’t be starting. I think the Jazz signed his 42M contract with the idea that he will be a starter.

We definitely need an elite perimeter defender and Stanley Johnson looks like a great option for the future there, but if we get him and try to make him a starter, I don’t know if we can afford having Burks on the bench. Also I don’t know if Favors-Gobert front-court will work. To me it looks monstrous in defense, but also horrendous in offense with the complete lack of spacing.

Next draft will be really interesting for the Jazz… we have 2 real needs – stretch 4/shooting big(assuming Kanter is gone, which is very probable) and perimeter defender. As you pointed out, Stanley Johnson seems like a great wing defender and the options for the 4/5 could be Towns or Porzingis. Next year’s draft will tell us a lot about what the front office and coaching staff think about the possibilities of the current roster and where they think we need most help.

[butidonthavemoney]

I’ve always seen Burks as more of a bench player. I know that most Jazz fans love him, but he doesn’t seem to have the ideal skillset of a starter. Granted, his catch and shoot ability has seemed to improve, but he still seems at his best when the ball is in his hands and he can create for himself. Players who are that ball-dominant syphon possessions from the rest of their teammates, and there aren’t many players who are talented and efficient enough to justify controlling that percentage of the offense. Unless they are a legit 1st overall option (or at least have compatible teammates surrounding them), great teams don’t have players like that in their starting unit.

I don’t see Burks as a premier scoring option on a great team, and I never expect a player to change his playing style dramatically (though it’s been done before). Therefore, I would have Burks lead the second unit in the long term. He’d likely have less trouble defending back-ups, he would have much more freedom to be himself offensively, and if surrounded by shooters, his playing style would really complement his teammates.

I understand that he’s probably the best scoring option we have right now, so it doesn’t hurt to give him a longer look as a starter. I’m just skeptical that both he and the team can thrive with him in that role. There’s plenty of people that disagree with me there (perhaps even the Jazz themselves), and I understand why. Just the way I see it.

The starting unit I suggested could work if everybody’s offensive abilities developed to complement each other (think Detroit ten years ago) or one of the players miraculously developed into a major scoring option (Maybe Johnson or Exum). I know defense wins championships, so I’d prefer to err toward that side when thinking about the team’s future.

[butidonthavemoney]

I’ve always seen Burks as more of a bench player. I know that most Jazz fans love him, but he doesn’t seem to have the ideal skillset of a starter. Granted, his catch and shoot ability has seemed to improve, but he still seems at his best when the ball is in his hands and he can create for himself. Players who are that ball-dominant syphon possessions from the rest of their teammates, and there aren’t many players who are talented and efficient enough to justify controlling that percentage of the offense. Unless they are a legit 1st overall option (or at least have compatible teammates surrounding them), great teams don’t have players like that in their starting unit.

I don’t see Burks as a premier scoring option on a great team, and I never expect a player to change his playing style dramatically (though it’s been done before). Therefore, I would have Burks lead the second unit in the long term. He’d likely have less trouble defending back-ups, he would have much more freedom to be himself offensively, and if surrounded by shooters, his playing style would really complement his teammates.

I understand that he’s probably the best scoring option we have right now, so it doesn’t hurt to give him a longer look as a starter. I’m just skeptical that both he and the team can thrive with him in that role. There’s plenty of people that disagree with me there (perhaps even the Jazz themselves), and I understand why. Just the way I see it.

The starting unit I suggested could work if everybody’s offensive abilities developed to complement each other (think Detroit ten years ago) or one of the players miraculously developed into a major scoring option (Maybe Johnson or Exum). I know defense wins championships, so I’d prefer to err toward that side when thinking about the team’s future.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 The pieces dont fit.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 The pieces dont fit.

[Captain LParticipant]

The only piece that doesn’t fit is Kanter, Favors is showing he will be better than last year, Burks the same, Hayward will be as good as last yr or better, (probably better), Burke is better than last year, Gobert is much better than last year and should be a major contributor, Kanter even though he doesn’t fit all that well should be better than last year, Exum will improve as the season progresses , he is showing he can play pretty good D, Hood has great upside and although he will (like Exum,) make a lot of rookie mistakes I love what he brings. I like the pieces the FO are putting together and although this team won’t make the playoffs they should surprise a lot of people and win close to 35 games give or take a few, .Burke will be the starting PG this year but I’m not sure he will keep the starting position beyond this year, Exum ‘s D should improve as the year goes on, he could force himself onto the court. He held Isaiah Thomas to 2 point in the first half last night and looked good doing it, he pretty much shut Thomas down during that period. He also scored 10 points hitting 2 3’s.. Gobert is steadily improving and could get 20 plus minutes per game before long. I’m hoping Kanter can improve enough to be a player other teams want and therefore be an asset in trade talks. Hood could prove to be the steal of the draft, he just needs to get comfortable.

[Captain LParticipant]

The only piece that doesn’t fit is Kanter, Favors is showing he will be better than last year, Burks the same, Hayward will be as good as last yr or better, (probably better), Burke is better than last year, Gobert is much better than last year and should be a major contributor, Kanter even though he doesn’t fit all that well should be better than last year, Exum will improve as the season progresses , he is showing he can play pretty good D, Hood has great upside and although he will (like Exum,) make a lot of rookie mistakes I love what he brings. I like the pieces the FO are putting together and although this team won’t make the playoffs they should surprise a lot of people and win close to 35 games give or take a few, .Burke will be the starting PG this year but I’m not sure he will keep the starting position beyond this year, Exum ‘s D should improve as the year goes on, he could force himself onto the court. He held Isaiah Thomas to 2 point in the first half last night and looked good doing it, he pretty much shut Thomas down during that period. He also scored 10 points hitting 2 3’s.. Gobert is steadily improving and could get 20 plus minutes per game before long. I’m hoping Kanter can improve enough to be a player other teams want and therefore be an asset in trade talks. Hood could prove to be the steal of the draft, he just needs to get comfortable.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Philly 76ers take note.  Eventually you have to pay all these draft picks.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Philly 76ers take note.  Eventually you have to pay all these draft picks.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

That’s the root of my initial post without being so basic. I actually like to add personal content with my posts. The "Knucklehead" era of the L.A. Clippers had this issue. Miles, Richardson, Maggette, Odom, Brand, Dooling, Olowokandi.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

That’s the root of my initial post without being so basic. I actually like to add personal content with my posts. The "Knucklehead" era of the L.A. Clippers had this issue. Miles, Richardson, Maggette, Odom, Brand, Dooling, Olowokandi.

[Ebown5Participant]

 

That is always the risk when you rebuild through the draft and it shows why you can’t perpetually tank in the NBA. The Sixers have no desire to be picking in the top 5 three years from now. If Embiid can be healthy then the problem goes away. You have your franchise player and you are basically then ready to pay your draft picks if they deserve it. If the pieces don’t fit then you can trade for pieces that do.

The problem with the Jazz is that they haven’t drafted a franchise talent with all of their high draft picks. They just have a lot of good prospects. Exum is the only player on the team that has superstar potential, but he is so far away from getting there that they have to pay their other guys before they know what they really have.

I think that Burke ends up as the guy that gets left out in the end simply because I think that Exum will pass him before he is up for his extension. When he is ready to be extended he will probably deserve a good contract and a starting job somewhere so the Jazz might have to trade him. It would be a good problem to have if they end up having it.

If I were a Jazz fan though I would be excited about Exum. I think that he is going to be a star some day. He is just really raw right now.

[Ebown5Participant]

 

That is always the risk when you rebuild through the draft and it shows why you can’t perpetually tank in the NBA. The Sixers have no desire to be picking in the top 5 three years from now. If Embiid can be healthy then the problem goes away. You have your franchise player and you are basically then ready to pay your draft picks if they deserve it. If the pieces don’t fit then you can trade for pieces that do.

The problem with the Jazz is that they haven’t drafted a franchise talent with all of their high draft picks. They just have a lot of good prospects. Exum is the only player on the team that has superstar potential, but he is so far away from getting there that they have to pay their other guys before they know what they really have.

I think that Burke ends up as the guy that gets left out in the end simply because I think that Exum will pass him before he is up for his extension. When he is ready to be extended he will probably deserve a good contract and a starting job somewhere so the Jazz might have to trade him. It would be a good problem to have if they end up having it.

If I were a Jazz fan though I would be excited about Exum. I think that he is going to be a star some day. He is just really raw right now.

[apb540Participant]

At the end of the day, you need a go-to-scorer in the NBA and the Jazz do not currently have that. Will Burks or Exum or Draft Pick ’15 or Hayward develop into one? Maybe, but not sure if I would put my money on it. Either way, they are a work in progress. 

[apb540Participant]

At the end of the day, you need a go-to-scorer in the NBA and the Jazz do not currently have that. Will Burks or Exum or Draft Pick ’15 or Hayward develop into one? Maybe, but not sure if I would put my money on it. Either way, they are a work in progress. 

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 Drafting 19 year olds means you must also be willing to take a gamble  on them at extension time. Only superstars have totally broke out after 3 years. Burks has showed signs he could break out with some fabulous individual moves and steady improving jumper. It was a good day for Utah.

[TheLastWordParticipant]

 Drafting 19 year olds means you must also be willing to take a gamble  on them at extension time. Only superstars have totally broke out after 3 years. Burks has showed signs he could break out with some fabulous individual moves and steady improving jumper. It was a good day for Utah.

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Gobert is a great prospect, Favors and Hayward looked like All-Stars in the game against the Suns, Exum and Burke and Burks should form a very solid three guard rotation.  

Kanter is a problem, not worth anywhere near the money he thinks he is worth.  Gobert needs to start, and Utah needs to trade away Kanter so Gobert can grow.  As Gobert is 7-2 with very long arms, when his game grows he will be an amazing player.

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Gobert is a great prospect, Favors and Hayward looked like All-Stars in the game against the Suns, Exum and Burke and Burks should form a very solid three guard rotation.  

Kanter is a problem, not worth anywhere near the money he thinks he is worth.  Gobert needs to start, and Utah needs to trade away Kanter so Gobert can grow.  As Gobert is 7-2 with very long arms, when his game grows he will be an amazing player.

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 It would be interesting to see what the Jazz could get for Kanter tradewise, he isn’t tied down to a new deal but the receiving team would still hold his RFA rights so that would add trade value. 

A decent 22 year old big man defensive prospect would surely generate interest from some teams if the asking price wasn’t too steep,

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 It would be interesting to see what the Jazz could get for Kanter tradewise, he isn’t tied down to a new deal but the receiving team would still hold his RFA rights so that would add trade value. 

A decent 22 year old big man defensive prospect would surely generate interest from some teams if the asking price wasn’t too steep,

 

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

He’s not a defensive prospect. All his talents are in offense and on the boards. His defense is horrendous. Last year the players he was guarding had on average PER of 27+. As a comparison – the average player has PER of about 15, all stars usually have 20+ PER and hall of famers ~25 PER. This means that he allowed players he was guarding to post better than hall of fame numbers on average for the full season! This is one of the worst defensive performances of any player I can think of in the stretch of a full season. The question is whether or not he can bring his defense to a level that’s at least average-ish…

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

He’s not a defensive prospect. All his talents are in offense and on the boards. His defense is horrendous. Last year the players he was guarding had on average PER of 27+. As a comparison – the average player has PER of about 15, all stars usually have 20+ PER and hall of famers ~25 PER. This means that he allowed players he was guarding to post better than hall of fame numbers on average for the full season! This is one of the worst defensive performances of any player I can think of in the stretch of a full season. The question is whether or not he can bring his defense to a level that’s at least average-ish…

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

Where do you find defensive PER numbers?

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

Where do you find defensive PER numbers?

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

I don’t have the PER numbers, but somebody at RealGM Jazz forum had them calculated in the summer specifically for Kanter’s opposition. I tried finding it to reference it, but I can’t seem to find it right now. Sorry.

[pe3ucTopParticipant]

I don’t have the PER numbers, but somebody at RealGM Jazz forum had them calculated in the summer specifically for Kanter’s opposition. I tried finding it to reference it, but I can’t seem to find it right now. Sorry.

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

The Jazz may have a lunatic head coach but they also may have the most intriguing crop of young talent in the NBA.

[Dale WorthingtonParticipant]

The Jazz may have a lunatic head coach but they also may have the most intriguing crop of young talent in the NBA.

[Author]

Posts