Can ty Lawson make an impact for the Suns if he is the only avilble player point guard. I know he is 5'11 but can he make in the NBA.
did you forget chris paul!!!! of course he will be good hes a starter.
i think one thing we've seen this year is the small pg can make an impact in the nba. obviously, the main success was what aaron brooks did to the lakers in the playoffs. dj augustin had an excellent rookie year off the bench and nate robinson had a great year. the key to all these guys' successes was their ability to use their quickness, but maybe more important was their ability to shoot the ball. ty lawson is going to have to prove that he can shoot the ball, especially off of pick and rolls. if he is unsuccessful, i could see patrick mills and darren collison getting picked before him.
some stuff to work on if he wants to be successful. He needs a jumper, learn half court o, guard strong points, & many more things. His biggest plus, is that he shows will to win.
I dont understand this Ty Lawson love. I think hes the 8th best PG in this draft. He really did not show me anything i didnt already know about him.
He loves to go to one side of the basket
He can play solid D against small PG's
In my order
I don't see how you can have Mills, Curry, Maynor and even Flynn over Lawson...Heck, Holiday didn't even do a dang thing at UCLA besides playing great defense.
Everyone is hyped on Lawson because he came back in the NCAA tourney and then they won the title.
Mills is better to me because he fast ( not as fast as lawson), he could shoot a little better and he could lead a team better and play better D.
Curry is better to me because he could score more and he is taller ( Small PG are getting fazed out the NBA)
Maynor is way better beacuse he showed he could put a team on his back to a victory. Even before the Duke game ( which he took over) in the CAA tourney finals to get in the tourney, he scored 10 points in a row to help his team win. Also, Maynor could step in today and help a team (he litteray have no learning curve)
Flynn is better than Lawson because he can shoot better and he is tougher.
Also, NBA scouts arent seeing anything new with Lawson. He cant shoot too well. He came out last year and didnt get a 1st round lock like he wanted. ( He came back because teams weren't felling him, not to win a NCAA title.)
I think Lawson has improved his set shot quite a bit. Also, what makes Flynn tougher than Lawson? Curry might be a better scorer than Lawson and is taller, but he not as athletic, can't drive as good, is weaker and doesn't have the vision that Lawson has. I haven't seen enough of Mills so I guess I can't make an argument there.
Do you even watch college or NBA basketball? Lawson can't shoot well? He shot 47% for threes this season. There is no way Patrick Mills is a better shooter. Mills shot 40% field goals and only 33% on threes.
Small PG's are getting fazed out in the NBA? What are you talking about? Chris Paul, TJ Ford, and DJ Augestine are barely 6' feet tall. Johnny Flynn is barely 6' and he's considered a lottery pick.
"Small PG are getting fazed out the NBA"
I have to disagree with that. As it has been said above, Aaron Brooks, Nate Robinson and DJ Augustin all had good seasons as smaller point guards. Plus, Flynn, Lawson and Mills are all around 6' so he wont be the only small pg chosen..
I see the list as:
2. Evans (he can play the point)
Maynor is bigger and has a better mid-range jumper but thats it. Lawson is quicker, smarter, a better long range shooter, better ball handler, better passer, and has more experience. No way would I take Maynor over Lawson.
Curry is the best shooter in the draft so I would take him over Ty.
Jrue Holiday is just too big and versatile to take Lawson ahead of him. Even though Jrue didn't do much at UCLA he showed that he can be a team player, play multiple positions, and guard the opposing teams best player.
Mills is somewhat of a mystery. He has a lot of hype surrounding him. He is about the same as Lawson and there isn't a huge difference speed wise. I would give Lawson the edge just because he is a winner. Lawson is also a better shooter. Don't believe me look at the stats. They are both excellent ball handlers and passers.
Lawson is actually a better shooter than Flynn. But Fllynn can run a team better. Both handle the ball well and are excellent passers. Flynn gets a slight edge just because of his wingspan and overall point guard skills. Flynns game translates better to the nba.
Top 8 PG
I seen alot of flynn and trust me...if he had another good player around him..he would have been good
where do u have Lawson in your mock?
I wouldn't be suprised if Lawson fell very late in the 1st round mainly because he doesn't have any upside. You know what you are getting with Lawson. I think Lawson will be a good starter but not great. I think Lawson desereves to be picked in the late teens or early 20's but like I said I have a feeling that he falls to the bottom of the 1st round.
Lawson to me is a mid to late 1st rounder....he did not show me anything new from 08 to 09
if thats the case why do you have holiday high..he hasnt shown that hes better then any of the other guys ont his list..just cuz hes tall to play pg means nothing..also what has rubio showed you exactly?..you havent even seen him in any spain leauge games so youre arguement doesnt make no sense unless you just baseing youre opinion on what toher site writers are saying. im not reall high on lawson either but youre arguement about him could aply for a couple guys..holiday didnt show to be a good shooter and he played shooting guard..rubio isnt a good shooter, not a good defender against athletic guards and can finsh to well..even though i dont like lawson to much he does get the job done and as far as his jumper im not too worried because it has gotten better and will continue to get better in the nba..also his bust factor is smaller then holiday..basically like tyler you know what you ar gonna get..alot of the players youre drafting on what you think they might do if they reach there potenial
there are many guys with the same skills as lawson in the nba. ty lawson = dee brown of illinois. we have seen how one dimensional point guards are really limited in help to a team. Rondo for example is a great pg but if he had a j he would be a whole lot better. college to the nba is not just a one level jump, its about 15 levels up. lawson won't be able to run by everyone in the nba, without a j he will be in the nbdl reel quik. johnny flynn is better because he has a mid-range game and speed, along with patty mills. the rea lity is lawson is just another overhyped player in the eyes of the unc loving media. until he proves other wise i rather draft aj price ahead of him.
The fact that your comparing Ty Lawson to Dee Brown shows how little you know about basketball. Ty Lawson has very good court vision. Dee Brown does not. Dee Brown didn't make it in the NBA because of the fact that he was a shooting guard in a point guards body. Ty Lawson is a pure point guard.
exactly how i feel about holiday..a very overhyped player that hasnt shown any indication that he will be anything be a average nba player....people but way to much emphisis on how tall he is which doesnt mean hes gonna be great player
Josh- Holiday never played at SG. He played PG in college and he was playing in a defensive system by a defensive coach.
2K- I wont see Lawson is Dee Brown, but i understand what you are saying.
Greg- He is not as good as he thinks. He is IMO the 8th best PG in this draft. He about to be 9th because i just realized he is not better than teague.
Ha I forgot about Teague too. Yeah Teague is better than Lawson. I would actually take Teague above Flynn.
holiday playedsg and the system had nothing to do with missing the layups he missed nor the outside shots or 35percent 3pt or the 1.75 ast to turnover ratio...seriously stop making excuses for this guy people..reguardless what position he played he didnt produce..its really that simple..everyone saying what he can do but he did all that in highschool against sorry comp..when he faced better players he could do the same thing..high bust factor period and he showed no proof other wise..teauge isnt even a point guard hes a undersized 2 guard and no way hes better then lawson as a pg he had a good half of the season SCORING WISE second he came down to earth
Josh, you need to stop hyping up Lawson. He did not improve. Most scouts think he wont be a good PRO...
He hasnt shown anything new in his game from 08 to 09
He cant guard bigger PG and he's 6-0.
He is a TJ Ford who cant shoot
For whoever said Jonny Flynn didn't have a good player to play with I just want to say that isn't true. Jonny Flynn had Eric Devendorf. Forget Devo's attitude or the NBA draft he can play. I'm just pointing that out. And he played with Wesley Johnson all last year in practice. It was only practice, but they still got a feel for each other. Most of America haven't heard of Johnson yet, but wait until next season. He might make all-big east first-team.
D Hamp...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
Devo is not a NBA talent....cant lead a team with No NBA talent
since i chill Syracuse, i know Wesley Johnson and I agree, he will be a 1st round pick in 2010.
Practice is practice, he didnt play...Flynn had noone around him to work with beside Devo ( who kept both teams in the game) and Harris ( 6-4 SF who could rebound but cant really score)
Teague destroyed Lawson when they played this year. Ty Lawson is a good shooter though, I don't understand why people are saying he can't shoot.
for one im not hypinghim up..for two name these most scoutsw cuz from everything ive read most scouts have him ever as a solid back up or starting ...so please give some references cuz as of now it seems most scouts equal youre opinion..the only overhyped player ive seen so far is holiday with rubio being second
well...Holiday played out of position and Rubio is good ( I watched him play)
Lawson is not that good...I cant see him
A- going any higher than 16 in the draft
B-Being able to defend anyone taller than him
C-Starting on a playoff team
I dont think he will be a good PRO
and if scouts thought he would be a good starter...why did he go back to UNC? He knew he was not a 1st round lock...
DONT SELL ME THAT " HE WANTED TO WIN A TITLE" talk
QHayes.... I'm glad you agree with me on Johnson. And as I said before, Flynn practiced with Johnson. I would have rather practiced for a seaon with a potential top 20 pick then without one. As for Devo, I said throwout the draft, but don't forget he was Syracuse's go to player. Flynn is a distributor. So to discount Devo and his contributions isn't fair. And, he may get drafted. We'll just have to see.
D Hamp...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
A- How many 3's did Lawson take? Im seeing you like numbers, doesnt matter...you also forget Mills hurt his wrist which effect his shooting...Mills missed 9 games to Lawson's 3. Also, Lawson has help inside to allow him to get some open 3's....Mills not so much
B- Compare the number of small guards to the 90's,80's the number is decreasing...off the top of your head...you named 4
Mills had a poor percentage before his injury. No, Lawson didn't take a bunch of 3's a game because he has good shot seIection. I will agree that Ty Lawson probably had more open 3's, but that doesn't mean he's a poor shooter.
I only named 4 but there are others, see Josh Heistus's examples. Also, Patrick Mills is only 6 feet tall.
just cuz you chill there and know him doesnt make him a first round pick for one..he has to prove it first..2 i also have read scouts reports and know personally froma couple of nba scouts that lawson projects as a good back up possible starter so you gotta stop tryna make youre opinion facts...i personally dont see the big deal about lawson but i agree he could be a good back though potenially i think flynn is better and gatorheel give me a break with he killed lawson what does it mean when someone out plays another player in college
?..not much..paulas out played jeff before..nolan smitth held jeff to 11pts and all that means........nothing really..also with tyler..cole out played him arthur out played him johnson out played him..one thing no one mentions is each one of them have very good front lines who will be first rounders tyler pretty much was lone with thompson who disappears all the time...kind of hard to out play 2-4 nba caliber bigmen dont you think..but what did tyler finsh with in those games?..doi think hell be a star..hell no do i think he'll be a bum no but i think he'll be servicable just like lawson..alot of guards jumpers gets better in the nba ..also why do i keep hearing that lawson is a bad shooter..since when is 47 percent from 3 (took115-120 threes)and 53 from 2 is bad?..
from alot of yall i seem to hear alotr of excuses when it comes to the players yalllike but if you dont like them you arent tryna hear any excuse..alot of the pg are overhyped and will struggle from jump (holiday,rubio,mills( hes not overhyped though). flynn is good but he willstruggle from jump also..even the best college pg struggle when they get top the nba
Bryant...why u getting on me for?
1. I said he maybe a potential 1st round pick in 2010....relax
2. Im not killing Lawson overall. I dont agree he belongs in the lottery..AT ALL he is more of a late 1st in my eyes
3. uhh...post that Hansbrough talk on the Hansbrough post...he is not good and ill leave it like that,
did he really say the small guards are being fazed out? brooks paul nate rondo dj?...wow thats a hellof a phase out..every couple of years some big pgs come along some commentators make a comment about big guards is the future then fans write on here relaying the message liek its the word from god instead of using there eyes and watching the game
same with holiday yall hes also not that good..bryant dont argue with some of these guysfor one most of them dont know basketball and 2 if they like someone then that player has zero to very little weaknesses to them because they cant be objective
zk..why rubio number one?..you tube clips?..or from what you hear other people say?
ive personally never seen rubio play other than olympics and highlights but bryant i know you played against him when you were in spain what do you think about him?
Listen...the difference between the Small guards today and yesteryear are getting smaller and smaller.
Brooks- 1 good postseason....lets see next season
Paul- All star
Nate- good player, bad team...if he was on a good team...would he still be a good player?
Rondo- Thanks to KG, Pierce and Allen he gotten a chance to develop his game.
and then again...alot of teams like big guards...but alot of small guard that have been bust doesnt help
Mateen Cleaves, Speedy Claxton, Raul Lopez, DeJuan Wagner, Frank WIlliams, Dan Dickau, Luke Ridinour, Telfair.... small PG's
Also, you forgot about Jameer Nelson...hes pretty good too.
how many big pg in the leauge are actually real good?.. and that second list of small guards i dont think any of them were projected to be real good othyer then telfar so bad example.
what is a big pg?
Obviously I haven't seen a lot of him other than you tube and olympics but..
-He is NBA ready. he has been playing with grown men since he was 16.
- He won the defensive player of the year in his league last year
- According to scouting reports he is a phenominal passer, who sees everything before it happens. and an extemley hard worker.
-I've heard interviews, he seems like he really loves basketball
- He will bring a ton of excitement and attention to whatever team takes him (you can write this off, but teams like Sacramento are losing money fast because quite simply no one cares about them)
I know he has no jumpshot, but if he really is a hard worker like everyone says thaen that will come in time.
A lot of guards in general are busts. You don't mention the bigger guards that don't make it. I hate to accuse people of bias but you seem to be just anti-Carolina. Let's look at some stats.
Ty Lawson averaged 16.6 points per game on 1.70 points per shot. He shot 53% with 47% from 3. He had a 3.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio and 1.7 steals per game.
Johnny Flynn averaged 17.4 points per game on 1.39 points per shot. He shot 46% with 32% from 3. He had a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ration and 1.4 steals per game.
They measured the same height at the combine.
Ty Lawson is more efficient that Flynn in ever facet of his game. He turns the ball over less. He scores better. I'm glad you can say that Ty is worse so easily.
big guards..acie law javaris crittion randy foye marcus williams jarret jack shaun livingstn bedrio udrich kirk henrich wille green smush parker...do you now since 2000 those are the only pg 6'3 and above?
no...im saying what in your drfination is a big PG?
6-3 to 6-5?
A guard's size depends on the system. Some teams depend on the drive and kick game, in which case a small fast guard would be more appropriate. Utah is a half court grind it out team, so Deron Williams's physical style is perfect. Some teams don't need a traditional distributing point guard to win, some teams do. It's all about the system they run. For example, the Lakers couldn't adequately use a traditional point guard since the triangle provides for ball motion through all players. Thinking in narrow terms about what a point guard can be can only limit success.
ya but some of those guys are still in the L because the play the 2 ( Hinrich, Foye, Jack, Green )
when your 6-0 and you cant PG well, thats it...
i just checked out the measurments and those are the only guards 6'3 and above in the nba Q...zk..he is not nba rady and most of the euros over there have been playing against pros since they were teens...he has potential but he will get burned for the first couple years in the nba and hewill have a hard time scoring and not turning the ball over so much( leads spain in turnovers against guards who arent half as good at defense....theres a guy on drafte express that gives a very acurate assesment of rubio zk you should check it out..he tells you all his pros but unlike most of the other sites he lets you know about his flaws and they arent very small flaws..i tend to look at players like this..if you took away some of there height would there ability be good enough to compensate for the most part..rubio has the potenial in a couple of years to be a good player but he will struggle alot early on..and coachs sit you down when you turn over the ball alot ..another thing is he hasnt gotten awhole lot better int he past three years..hyes gotten better but not by alot
and? We dont know if Lawson, Flynn or Mills will be good...we gotta sit and wait
but that doesnt prove youre point of the phase of short pg..if anything there is no transition to a slew of big pg comming in....also holiday better hope he becomes a good pg because he cant transition to the sg position
well...if you read my mock (MOCK DRAFT 4.0) you would know i said Rubio needs a year to get his game NBA ready
Let me time in on the Flynn vs. Lawson debate. Flynn is a better point guard than Lawson and he is only a sophomore!
I think the talent around Lawson inflated his stats and the eye test, making him look better than what he really is. Don't get me wrong, Lawson is a top 5 college point guard, but he isn't Flynn. Flynn is faster, a better ballhandler and decision maker than Lawson and he didn't have the players around him to cover for his rare mistakes such as Lawson.
D Hamp...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.