The Truth behind Grant Hill and Jalen Rose (Its more than just B-Ball)
First off, if you are not aware of Black AMERICAN history and/or a been a black man in America your opinion on this matter is very misleading. This is above and beyond Jalen Rose calling out Grant Hill... It’s much deeper than that, so if you are for Hill's comments (which were more hypocritical to everything that has been said) then READ on...
I love Duke, I have friends that went there and one of which who played basketball there. I feel they play as a team and people aren't motivated for selfish reasons. They are my favorite team. BUUUUUUUUUTTT, Coach K DOESN'T spiral off and recruit a Mike Beasley or Jalen Rose or Bassy Telfair or Melo. ESPECIALLY back then. I'm sorry it’s the truth. Jalen comments weren't a mystery in the black community and this isn't new to Grant Hill, I actually lost respect for Grant responding in this way. They only said how they felt, DUKE was some *itches and Grant Hill was a Uncle Tom for playing for them and having the privilege life. Of course Jalen doesn't feel the same way about Grant Hill now, but he does feel Coach K doesn't recruit the "hood" players (which he doesn't). If anything, Jalen stated he envied Grant for having his father while he didn't even know his. Jalen was giving you insight to his frustration back then a jealous 18 year-old kid. It wasn't a put down to Grant Hill as of today. Not at all. But I will say this ONLY people that should have a reply back to Jalen though are Grant, fellow black Duke Players, and Coach K.
The Fab 5 as a whole meant something more than basketball. In the state of BLACK America at that time our people were engulfed in the crack epidemic. If you look at history Crack was just as potent as the Jim Crow laws. This is at a time where racial tension against racial profiling was an all time high (Rodney King?), Hip-Hop is going main stream, and The Fab 5 was the fresh new thing. (Did any of you *cough* Fools *cough* watch the show or the Grant Hill thing stood out for you?) You know what did it for me? Bill Walton on ESPN saying they were a disgrace to the game of basketball for talking trash and wearing baggy shorts. The "Blue Collar" of America hated these guys and everything they stood for. They were making a statement and took the nation by the balls. So, naturally they resented Duke because they were POLAR opposites.
This "debate" is a good one that needed to surface for a while. The STATE OF BLACK AMERICA. All boils down to EDUCATION. The schools are still segregated with communities that are better academically receiving majority of the states funding. While the inner-city youth are learning from 10 year old text books. America is so flawed when it comes to education disparities it’s ridiculous. Jim Crow laws were implemented to DESTROY generations of blacks. Not just those back in the day. The biggest weapon for it? Education. It had nothing to do with the physical abuse, all mental. Which you look at the State of Black America you still see it today. Here's the problem with White America, they will NOT take blame for this. You see it or hear it with, why do you continue to bring up slavery? Or NOT telling its children how cruel our fore fathers were. How majority of the wealth in White America came from the FREE labor of slaves. How for generations and generations whites were able to receive education which gave the building blocks to a stable race. If you look at blacks, you were KILLED for knowing how to read. I fault White America for looking at black folks with disgust, ridicule, or misunderstanding. For seeing what’s wrong with America as a whole and turning their cheek as long as it doesn't corrupt their bubble. But for the same reason I discredit White America for that, I discredit some of my own race for it.
Which is why NOT only the 18 year old Jalen Rose and Jimmy King felt that way, it is the same reason a good portion of blacks that age RIGHT NOW feel that way. Is Grant Hill an Uncle Tom? Hell No. He took advantage of the opportunities given to him. Our race has implied that going to school and getting good grades isn't cool. Being an educated man isn't cool. By talking right, is talking "white". Like you aren’t "Black enough". You have to have this "street" cred in order to be official. This is what I blame my race for. I grew up in a rough situation didn't have ish, my father in and out of my life, depending on government assistance for food and shelter. Being a black kid in a city that was racially segregated. Being racially profiled numerous of times and fought white boys for telling my sister to go pick some cotton. I'm by every definition of the word shall and always will be considered "Black" because of that. Too bad no one would know that if you see me now. I have been accused of my own family of talking white. Of thinking I’m better than them, of turning my back on the "hood". Friends in College still think I'm lying about being from the projects. Only thing I did was take advantage of the opportunities given to me. Which I come to understand EVERYONE isn't built that way. And EVERYONE doesn’t or didn’t have the same opportunities as me. So, whose fault is it? Whose responsibility is it? EVERYONE. From the Grant Hills of Black America, to the Jalen Roses, to the people on this forum, to me, to our future kids, to our current kids, to White America, to EVERY freaking American. We are all responsible for that little black kid, not because he's a black kid but because he's uneducated and unresponsive to hope. We are all tied into this together. We are all at fault for the state of young America especially Black America.
It’s going to take generations of work and I doubt if America truly cares, but that's the only way we are going to rise from this as a nation. Action is a big thing to ask for, so turning our cheeks and returning to our bubbles is more than likely the case. I just "hope" it isn't.
everything you brought up is why i didnt like what jalen said. For black society as a whole to continue to grow and succeed, black people cant rip each other for being educated and succeful and having a good upbringing and thats exactly what jalen called out the duke players for.
He said he didn't like Grant Hill because he envied him. A.K.A. jealous. If you are jealous of someone and publically say it, are you putting them down? No... If anything he was giving him credit.
calling him and all young black men who went to duke "uncle toms" was a compliment?
Jalen said he was jealous. He admits he was wrong for thinking that. He also came from a broken home single mother situation. For those who don't know it makes you angry sometimes. He regrets that way of thinking and has since matured. It was a mistake. Plenty people who have had it hard have looked at people who had easier lives and said "Damn I wish my road could have been that smooth" Jalen was young. Hill is a good dude, and I respect Jalens honesty and him for being man enough to say I am sorry I was wrong.
i agree with all that and have said so in the other threads on th etopic scout4real. Jalen clarified his stance and said it when he was young. Doesnt change the fact that him making racially driven insults at other black young men was inappropriate and thats all i said. If you dont like my opinion on racial subjects, tough sh.it.
This is his report. Live from the hood. This is how black people feel/felt about Duke (not just blacks hate Duke for that reason btw). Its not how he feels now (he gets education now) but that doesn't take away from everyone else feeling that way. He just spoke for a lot of folks and gave the reason why they felt that way. And I resent that comment of "airing" the dirty laundry. Both Jalen and Grant have a right to bring this to the fore front. This has been tearing up the black race for too long. Sweeping it under the rug is being an Uncle Tom.
Wow Tuck that was some deep stuff. I have dealt with that whole living on both sides so to speak as well. It seems like if you try to do better despite where you come from, people will say one thing. I got tired of worrying about what people thought though. You can't change what people think but you hope in due time through their own experiences and getting educated about things that they will understand. I was actually shocked at how Grant Hill responded. I thought he should have taken it up with Jalen Rose because it was from what I heard of the statements he was not dissing Grant Hill. 20 years ago, he may have dissed him but not right now so I am confused why Hill responded the way he did. Also I get tired of the whole black people always trying to bring up race and slavery and stuff by white people. I sometimes wish there were ways to simulate to those people how it is to be black all the time even in these political correct days. I think seeing out of a different pair of eyes and a new perspective really open up a mind to the truth instead of living in your bubble. This is not aimed at all white people because I have lived in better areas and even in early Martin Luther King days and Missippi Burning days(Murders in Mississippi days) there were white people getting persecuting for helping black people to being educated and learning to better themselves. There are some black people that would not lift a finger now for their own kind yet back then some white people were willing to die to help another race when they could easily have stayed in their own bubble. I think both races need to wake up and work together and stop the hate and also that hiding the truth and speaking for ignorant mindset needs to stop.
Like I said before, people can blame whoever they want but your actions define you, and your actions will make and break you. This issue is no longer just an American issue but very much a North American issue since your culture has been passed on to Canadians through the media. Its funny how it is growing up..in school if you dont talk a certain way, if you arent dressed a certain way, considered hard, disrespectful, etc. you simply become an outcast, isolated from friends and even family. To an average kid in school what is the point in going everyday if the girls dont want to talk to you, and you have no friends. Especially since most mothers and fathers are either working all day, busy, or gone. At the end of the day from the day you can tie your own shoe laces, unless you come from a wealthy family, or a family that is not a broken home, your on your own. Also dont be ignorant enough to believe this is just a black issue you speak of, anybody who is not gringo white faces these issues everyday.
llperez you a dickhead rose can say what ever he likes if he felt grant was an uncle tom let him feel that way..what does it matter to you or anyone else the media just have you peopleall over the place with your comments...just worry about yourself guy ...and stop stating things like its facts i hate reading your comments guy get a grip
ill take that into consideration thanks for your imput
oh, and why you hating reading my coments? why do you care what i have to say, its how i felt? just worry about yourself guy...
It's more about socialism then any thing, the haves versus the have nots...as long as blacks blame whites and vice versa we will have this problem...no one cares about the 10 percent of the world controlling the other 90 through property, plague, war, religious conflict and racial differences...
@tuck - The first thing I take issue with in your comments are the fact that you bash Coach K for recruiting a certain type of player. Why should he be forced to recruit a player that doesn't fit his system? He's not being racist. If he was being racist he wouldn't recruit black players at all but that isn't the case. He recruits players that he believes fit his system. There isn't anything wrong with that. Every coach doesn't have to recruit every player. They pick and choose who they want to recruit and there isn't anything wrong with the way Coach K recruits. It's not a black vs white thing so why does it really matter? Was Jalen Rose wrong for making those comments? Not at all. He was just voicing his thoughts as a teenager. We all have immature thoughts as kids and there isn't anything wrong with that. The only problem with Jalen's comment at all was that he used the worlds "Uncle Tom". Those are harsh words and are very degrading and demeaning for a black man. He has every right to say that but he really should have chosen his words better.
The schools are still segregated with communities that are better academically receiving majority of the states funding.
You are correct but this isn't a racial issue. There are white kids that go to inner city schools as well.
Here's the problem with White America, they will NOT take blame for this.
Take blame for what exactly? Something that happened years ago and that we had nothing to do with? What exactly would you like "white America" to do about it then? We don't have a time machine. We can't go back and change anything. Ok, say we take the blame for it. Then what? What happens from there? Does it change anything? Nope. Does "black America" get anything for it? Nope. It won't change anything. That's the reason why people get tired of hearing black people use the race card. Not because we don't care about what happened or that we don't see how it has had a ripple effect throughout current generations. Its because there really isn't anything we can do about it at this point. All we can do is look toward and change the future.
I fault White America for looking at black folks with disgust, ridicule, or misunderstanding.
I believe that it is you that has the misunderstanding. And to group say "White America" is very naive and ignorant since you are lumping all whites together and say that we look at "black folks with disgust, ridicule, or misunderstanding". That is definitely not the case. There are still those out there who feel that way but it is a small group of people. There are black people who look at white people with those same sentiments much like you are are doing with this post but I would never make that comment and say that it is the sentiment of "Black America" because I know that isn't true. Some black people may feel that way and so may some white people but those people are a minority. Think about the way you phrase things.
I sometimes wish there were ways to simulate to those people how it is to be black all the time even in these political correct days. I think seeing out of a different pair of eyes and a new perspective really open up a mind to the truth instead of living in your bubble.
I agree and in a perfect world we would be able to do that but in the same token I could say the same thing about black people and ask them to look through a different pair of eyes and a new perspective and maybe you would realize that a lot of these generalizations that are made today about the way white people feel are wrong. Maybe then black people would realize that the majority of whites don't look down on you with disgust, ridicule, or any other negative word that we could insert there. This is a different time and a different generation of people. Again, I'm not saying that there still aren't whites out there who feel that way but they are a minority and shouldn't be allowed to shape your opinions of "White America". We all don't feel that way trust me.
But back to the original point here of Jalen's comments. Jalen wasn't necessarily wrong for his comments and feelings about Duke. His word usage on the other hand was wrong. Grant Hill wasn't wrong for his response either. They both just voiced their feelings about the situation.
I do wonder if Jalen Rose was somehow jealous of Grant Hill during his college and NBA career as Grant was regarded as the better player during each career. I was interested to discover that Jalen's father was a former NBA number one pick. If his father had stayed in his life, I wonder if Jalen's upbringing would have been more middle class.
The famous 5 did produce 3 top nba players, one of which is still playing and another in C-Web who would have been even better but for injuries during his career.
I've always had a huge amount of respect for Grant Hill as a person and a player and no doubt Rose's outbursts will have annoyed a lot of people because who he aimed it at. I would not say that Grant's popularity was anything to do with his upbringing or even his demeanour, look at how popular AI was in All Star voting even when he was past his peak and AI was one of the players most into the hip hop type image associated with players a few years ago.
is playing on the Bulls.
It's an interesting topic, but I think that everything has to be kept in context. Rose was expressing how he felt at the time. He was a 18, 19 year old kid and that was likely all he had known. I can guarantee that as he has gotten older his perspective has changed at least to some degree on the issue. With that said, what he said was wrong. People should not have to apologize for going to Duke. It's an excellent school in a great area. If you go to Duke and don't make it in the NBA, there are plenty of places that are going to want to hire you. With that said, I applaud his honesty. I don't know how many people would have conveniently left out details of how they felt, knowing it may come across as inappropriate or even be misinterpreted.
The reality of the matter is that no one should want to accept people having to live in violence, poverty infested areas and in single parent homes. In the U.S. as a whole that is becoming more of an issue across the country. This same issue of putting other people down because they want to do well has been going on for eternity. You see it in schools all the time. Kids get made fun of for being smart, having different interests, being successful, etc and people will target them out to pick on them, call them names or to beat them up. It's not just the issue of black people so I also believe that it's something that should be open for everyone to talk about, just do it in a respectful way and one that is conscience of the feelings and thoughts of others.
As far as Coach K goes, more power to him. If you can recruit kids that have money, a stable background and have spent their whole lives in good schools and staying out of trouble then why wouldn't you recruit them? Those seem to be some of the same reasons these other programs/ kids get in trouble. On top of that his teams win. He's not like a lot of coaches that know things are going on or might be going on and have to worry about vacating wins.
It did occur to me with Coach K having recruited Austin Rivers, you have a top prospect but his father is an NBA Head Coach so he's going to be from a wealthy family. So I did a quick look at Duke's major black recruits under Coach K to see if there is truth in what has been said about their background recruiting. Carlos Boozer's father was in the American Air Force so he probably had a good upbringing but Luol Deng was a refugee who came to the UK from Sudan so he was hardly from a wealthy background. Elton Brand and Corey Margette seem to have come from fairly solid backgrounds also.
So there is some evidence there but also exceptions, I wonder if Duke do run the sort of recruitment guidelines that Portland used under Kevin Pritchard where he and Coach MacMillan looked for solid characters in their draft recruitment and would not want any disruptive influences.
Hill is one of the classiest guys in the league and I love that he spoke out on what Jalen said. Jalen, wtf man. Completely uncalled for. Just because an institution evaluates players as individuals to a deeper extent than other teams does not mean that they only recruiting "uncle toms" when it comes to black players. I hate Duke, but you can tell that they really look at the individual from a character/student standpoint as well as playing ability. There very rarely are Duke players who end up in trouble academically or with the law and that is a tribute to their evaluation of their recruits and the training under the staff and school representatives.
Deng doesn't qualify as a player from the hood. I'm sure he had a rough up bringing but othing suggested that he had any type of hood mentality in him while he was at Blair Academy (private school)
Crowe if you read what I wrote, you will see that I did not group all white people together. I am pretty sure even most white people know who we are refering to when we say white America. Not all white people are allowed to be in that group because of varies reasons. If you going to quote one part of what I said include the stuff where I actually mentioned that not all white people has issues with black people or other minorities. Also I lived in the suburbs for a minute. I doubt I would learn anything new for seeing out of the eyes of white person. Also it is not about trying to blame white people that have nothing to do what with happened in the past. The past happened and when a person wants to hush that, there is a problem. Also yes some black people go overboard with that stuff and that is wrong but people in general in this day and age tend to be overly dramatic about stuff. I wish the black people that are out there saying whatever for attention and just for a pity part would think before they speak but in this world a lot of people dont think before they speak so that is very little to stop the few bad apples. I guess the issues is to like you said not to group all people into some negative stigma.
http://m.worldstarhiphop.com/video.php?v=wshhfA58l6q3f7djCa84 Chris Broussard is spitting some real &$#%#&@!...
interesting @ billyk
not sure if yall have seen this but Chris broussard speaks the truth
1- Never did I once called Coach K a racist. Duke is my favorite team which mean he is one of my favorite coaches.
2- I'm not going to account the less than 7% of white kids that attend inner-city public schools. Im going with the majority.
3- Yes. "White America" THE MAJORITY is on the hook for this. Plain and simple. I understand there are good white people out there and the same with Asian, Black, Brazilian etc. Hell MLK said this in his Dream speech. Who do you think helped Harriet Tubman? I get that not ALL white people are that way. I'm speaking to the majority. "White America" I live in a city where I see the disgust and the self proclaimed bubble. Where black kids would be on the train "clowning" or "talking ish" and get looked at with ridicule. Its no surprise that Blacks make up only 13% of the US and we make up over 70% of the jail population. So, when I say its a problem with "White America" well it IS. Laws are bias, the school system is a joke, and the economy is against people below the poverty line.
Keep in mind I'm not saying you are supposed to give back what you have and/or feel sorry for what your great grandparents did. I am saying that you need to understand that without "slavery" your family legacy and/or wealth wouldn't be ish. I want "white america" to educate themselves with the injustice this country had. "White America" just wants to forget about this mark on American history (as if it never happened) and move to the future. NO. Like the Virginia Governor left out slavery in the Virginia History. WHY? The boarders of D.C. and VA was the biggest slave trade in America. That sore spot in American history. I've been to a majority white school and I KNOW Black history month isn't celebrated. I KNOW slavery is covered only in one chapter of my American History book (which was half of a lesson plan). Did you know blacks were considered 3/5 of a man? (check the constitution). Where I was told to read Ann Franks book, do a paper on it, drilled with Nazi Germany, I never received the same ambition of knowing about American history involving slavery. That's why I say "White America" wants to forget about it. I don't blame you. They purposely left it out of the history books, so it could be forgotten.
I also think its funny when people say "the race card". I agree it comes out WAY TOO MUCH. And I agree that racism is a subconscious trait that we have, regardless of how much you love the opposite race. But if a Black person does bring it up what is worst, being accused of being racist? Or being the one hosed (literally) and hung from a tree? Keep in mind, Im not saying pulling the race card is right, only saying it shouldn't be received with a compliant.
Before all this I said UNLESS you are aware of black history and/or a black man in America your opinion is NOT a valid one. Get educated first before you start voicing your opinion;
But you guys are missing the point,its not about black and white, its all about green dollar bills...the whites throughout American history have capitalized off the blood,sweat and tears of every race that has crossed the ocean to live in the land of the free, it was the same for all races, the Chinese were slaves in America, the Irish were treated as harshly as the Blacks yet they make up for most of the Unions and police force in the US, the Chinese built the railroads and then built their families social standing to the place it is now, The Jews were hated and discriminated upon and yet they own half of Hollywood and keep their wealth in the family, every race has climbed out of the negative place whites kept them in and many have prospered...blacks however can't seem to get their act together because of some reason or another, they could start by dropping all the excuses for their problems and look towards changing their situations not just for them as so many do when they become successful...when a black man or woman succeeds you never hear about them extending themselves to others in similar situations, they just buy rims to expensive cars and diamond engraved jewelry, they show no loyalty or sense of culture until they feel attacked and call for the NAACP to fight their battles, there is a huge problem in America, its a social epidemic and until we all see it for what it is it will continue...
But you guys are missing the point,its not about black and white, its all about green dollar bills...
No, no, no. It's about the lack of trust and togetherness in the African American community.
There are a lot of successful and rich black people as well but the thing is those people are not really brought up as being the face of black people like these other races. You still have a similiar percentage of poor chinese, jews, and any other minority race that was also mistreated but they get a different treatment than African Americans. Oprah who is black is one of the richest people in America yet when black people are brought up it the faces of poor and less educated. There are tons of smart and successful black people. I will say some of the fault is on black people because even when they see success they still want a little bit of "street cred" to prove their blackness or what not. This causes them to be grouped with uneducated areas of our people and not the educated people we are. It also hurts that our music Hip Hop has turned against us.
What Jalen Rose said was wrong but the thing is, he said it 20 year ago as a young adult and out of anger. Most people have said worst out of anger. He actually said his kids would fit into whom Duke went after so I doubt he still holds the same oppinions of black people that Duke go after. I think he was upset that Duke did not find inner city kids worthy of their school. All inner city kids are not trouble makers. I think they upset him and a lot of other inner city schools and they felt betrayed by black people that went there. I think they wanted black people to boycott Duke for how Duke recruits. I am sure like a lot of schools have done, if they can't win and have trouble getting black players, they will go anywhere to get them to win ball games. I think by black players like Grant Hill, Shane Battier, and others going there, it took away leaverage of Duke having to change their ways which are messed up.
Grant Hill and Shane Battier are not sell out or "Uncle Toms" but because of the situation I can understand many viewing them as such because it is hurtful feeling to be rejected because of your living situations and not the person you are. I understand the thought process of what Duke is doing but I still know that it is wrong.
Sheltwon, do you realize that Duke is historically not a team made up of mostly white players? You make it sound like black players going to Duke are the exception to the rule.
Black Players in Duke's starting five since 1999 (When I started watching):
2004- 4 (usually)
2007- 3 (Changed around a lot though)
Keep in mind that Duke has missed on a lot of black players who Krzyzewski has recruited hard. I don't understand what is "wrong" about how Duke recruits. A coach recruits the players that he thinks will work best with his roster and his system and that will ultimately result in the most wins for his program. Jalen Rose was mad because he and his other fab 5 teammates aside from Webber weren't recruited by Duke, and yet he went 0-4 against Michigan during Rose's time there. I would say that Krzyzewski clearly made the right decision.
When people talk about Duke looking for guys with solid characters, who will not cause issues on the team, don't forget that Coach K was a former member of the US Army and coached their team prior to joining Duke so a lot of his coaching would be based on discipline and respect. I'd doubt that some players would probably want the regime in college and likewise Duke may not decide to persue players they think could cause issues on the roster.