[CodySLCParticipant]

 After suffering a broken finger in the preseason, the college basketball player of the year will play his first professional game tonight against New Orleans. The Jazz have been the worst team in the league thus far, and their pg play has been horrendous as well. His return gives something for Jazzs fans to look forward to with all the struggles this season.

 

 

http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865590956/Utah-Jazz-Trey-Burke-to-make-NBA-debut-tonight-in-New-Orleans-Jeremy-Evans-will-also-play.html?ref=https://www.google.com/

 

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Good

LOL I lowkey forgot all about this dude.

 

[FastAndFuriousParticipant]

 Good

LOL I lowkey forgot all about this dude.

 

[delfamParticipant]

 this debut will only make Jazz fans even more upset after they realize how bad Burke is going to be in the NBA.

[delfamParticipant]

 this debut will only make Jazz fans even more upset after they realize how bad Burke is going to be in the NBA.

[CodySLCParticipant]

 Maybe we should let him get a game under his belt before we write him off.

[CodySLCParticipant]

 Maybe we should let him get a game under his belt before we write him off.

[delfamParticipant]

 ^ some players you can just tell

[delfamParticipant]

 ^ some players you can just tell

[TRC1991Participant]

 Yeah certainly bro^ because being named the NCAA player of the year is a clear-cut indicator that he’s gonna suck…

I’m shocked you’ve managed to accrue 500+ points on here…

 

 

[TRC1991Participant]

 Yeah certainly bro^ because being named the NCAA player of the year is a clear-cut indicator that he’s gonna suck…

I’m shocked you’ve managed to accrue 500+ points on here…

 

 

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Anything to help the Bucks become the worst NBA team. Number one pick here we come.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Anything to help the Bucks become the worst NBA team. Number one pick here we come.

[Lafferty DanielParticipant]

I would love to see the Bucks getting Marcus Smart.  Imagine a Smart & Giannis CTRL C + CTRL V future.   

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Smart is awesome, but I prefer Wiggins, Parker and Randle.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

 Smart is awesome, but I prefer Wiggins, Parker and Randle.

[machu46Participant]

Eh, I’m still skeptical of him.  He’s a great defender, and has the intangibles that you love, but his ball handling, passing, and shooting all leave a lot to be desired from a point guard.  Smart is my #5 or #6 guy right now (toss-up between him and Exum for #5 IMO).

In order of what I want right now:

1. Wiggins

2. Randle

3. Parker

4. Embiid

5. Exum/Smart

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[machu46Participant]

Eh, I’m still skeptical of him.  He’s a great defender, and has the intangibles that you love, but his ball handling, passing, and shooting all leave a lot to be desired from a point guard.  Smart is my #5 or #6 guy right now (toss-up between him and Exum for #5 IMO).

In order of what I want right now:

1. Wiggins

2. Randle

3. Parker

4. Embiid

5. Exum/Smart

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lafferty DanielParticipant]

I would love to see the Bucks getting Marcus Smart.  Imagine a Smart & Giannis CTRL C + CTRL V future.   

[r377Participant]

I know he struggled in summer league but i think Burke will be a good pro.

When the pistons decided to give up on Knight in the offseason, I wish they had taken Burke in the draft….

[r377Participant]

I know he struggled in summer league but i think Burke will be a good pro.

When the pistons decided to give up on Knight in the offseason, I wish they had taken Burke in the draft….

[SiggyParticipant]

 Trey looked great. 11 points in 11 minutes.  Corbin tried to put him in vs favorable matchups, like vs Brian Roberts and Austin Rivers, but Trey did see some minutes vs Jrue in the 4th.  Turned the corner well on a couple of layups.  Had a sweet pull up 3 off of a behind the back escape dribble. Got a poke away steal on I think Tyreke (not sure) and finished in transition.  Had a nice patented step back mid-range J over a big too. Only had one assist off of the PnR, but he looked fine moving the ball and coming off of ball screens.  They actually started him off the ball, but he eventually got it and ran PnR.

Real NBA games are more structured and less chaotic as is the case in summer league games.  Trey looked more comfortable in this setting, but again, it was a low pressure stint vs a relatively weak individual matchup.

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 So siggy it looks like u watched the game. Why has Eric Gordon looked so bad? He claims to be the healthiest he’s been in 2 years, but I haven’t seen it yet. He was aggreisve tonight but he just can’t seem to get to the rim the way did a few years ago. Also idk if he’s being passive or Monty Wiiliams is not calling his number but there is no way he should be 3rd on the team in FGA on the season, he’s a averaging a carrerew low in ppg and minutes. Despite the way AD has looked this season he’s not a better scorer than Gordon, AD is playing 11 minutes more this year than last and honestly his offensive game is not that much improved

[SiggyParticipant]

Physically he looks the same as last yr, that is to say he doesn’t look like the EJ that played for the Clips.   Same as last yr, but he seems more content with taking what the defense gives him and not forcing the issue with drives.  With AD stepping up his game offensively, EJ’s getting better open looks from 3. His usage rate is down because Davis’ is up.  Holiday is also a better scoring option than Vazquez was last yr so he’ll eat into Gordon’s usage as well.

 Davis is clearly the focal point of the offense now and he has improved on that end.  He’s shooting the ball better from mid-range.  He’s more aggressive off the bounce.  He’s drawing fouls at a higher rate. Davis is just more of a mismatch at the 4 than Gordon is at the 2.  

I think Gordon’s minutes will be right around 30-31 all yr barring injuries. Maybe they’re saving him from wear and tear a la Ginobili, but Tyreke will be eating into his minutes while NOP tries to justify the signing and his contract.

 

 

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

Ya he looks the same as last year, yet Gordon says its the best he felt in 2 years. I thought Gordon would look  more quicker and explosive but he hasn’t. Davis has gotten  better offensively but not as much as some might think. He’s playing more than 10 min more than he did last year which has a lot to do with his scoring being so up. Gordon played with Blake griffin in LA during Gordon’s breakout year, griffin averaged nearly 23 ppg while Gordon averaged almost 23 as well that season. AD getting better shouldn’t  lead to Gordon being passive and differing to other guys on the team. Idk y he’s not aggreisve as he was in LA, where he attacked the basket as hard as anyone in the league

 

 

  Also defensively he looks a little slower as well, though he’s still good on that end and he’s capable of shutting guys down.

[SiggyParticipant]

 Davis playing more minutes is not the only reason why his scoring is up.  His scoring rates are up across the board. Per 36 he’s scoring 4 pts more this yr, his FTA are up (converting them at a better clip as well), his points per possession (PPP) is up and his TS is up.  More offense is being ran through him and he’s justifying the increase in usage rate.

I just looked it up and Gordon’s finishing at the rim has been really poor.  About half his shots so far have been at the rim, so he is still driving, but he’s only converting those shots at a 44% clip.  That is awful, like worst in the league type awful.  For reference, the league average for SGs finishing at the rim last yr was 64%.  Suffice to say, he’s not what he once was physically.

 

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Yes I know physically he’s not where he used to be, but im not sure y. None of his injuries were big, it’s just he had a whole bunch of different injuries over the years. I still think it remains to be seen whether Gordon gets back the explosiveness he onced had. Yes AD has gotten better but still more of the offense should be run through Gordon. His last season playing in LA I thought he was a superstar in the making and thought he could be on the same level as rose and Westbrook if not better since he is the better shooter and defender along with his athletic gifts. I most certainly thought he would among the league leaders in ppg and make the all star team this year and be right there with harden for best 2 guard in the league. Now idk even know where he would be ranked among 2 guards

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Yes I know physically he’s not where he used to be, but im not sure y. None of his injuries were big, it’s just he had a whole bunch of different injuries over the years. I still think it remains to be seen whether Gordon gets back the explosiveness he onced had. Yes AD has gotten better but still more of the offense should be run through Gordon. His last season playing in LA I thought he was a superstar in the making and thought he could be on the same level as rose and Westbrook if not better since he is the better shooter and defender along with his athletic gifts. I most certainly thought he would among the league leaders in ppg and make the all star team this year and be right there with harden for best 2 guard in the league. Now idk even know where he would be ranked among 2 guards

[SiggyParticipant]

 Davis playing more minutes is not the only reason why his scoring is up.  His scoring rates are up across the board. Per 36 he’s scoring 4 pts more this yr, his FTA are up (converting them at a better clip as well), his points per possession (PPP) is up and his TS is up.  More offense is being ran through him and he’s justifying the increase in usage rate.

I just looked it up and Gordon’s finishing at the rim has been really poor.  About half his shots so far have been at the rim, so he is still driving, but he’s only converting those shots at a 44% clip.  That is awful, like worst in the league type awful.  For reference, the league average for SGs finishing at the rim last yr was 64%.  Suffice to say, he’s not what he once was physically.

 

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

Ya he looks the same as last year, yet Gordon says its the best he felt in 2 years. I thought Gordon would look  more quicker and explosive but he hasn’t. Davis has gotten  better offensively but not as much as some might think. He’s playing more than 10 min more than he did last year which has a lot to do with his scoring being so up. Gordon played with Blake griffin in LA during Gordon’s breakout year, griffin averaged nearly 23 ppg while Gordon averaged almost 23 as well that season. AD getting better shouldn’t  lead to Gordon being passive and differing to other guys on the team. Idk y he’s not aggreisve as he was in LA, where he attacked the basket as hard as anyone in the league

 

 

  Also defensively he looks a little slower as well, though he’s still good on that end and he’s capable of shutting guys down.

[SiggyParticipant]

Physically he looks the same as last yr, that is to say he doesn’t look like the EJ that played for the Clips.   Same as last yr, but he seems more content with taking what the defense gives him and not forcing the issue with drives.  With AD stepping up his game offensively, EJ’s getting better open looks from 3. His usage rate is down because Davis’ is up.  Holiday is also a better scoring option than Vazquez was last yr so he’ll eat into Gordon’s usage as well.

 Davis is clearly the focal point of the offense now and he has improved on that end.  He’s shooting the ball better from mid-range.  He’s more aggressive off the bounce.  He’s drawing fouls at a higher rate. Davis is just more of a mismatch at the 4 than Gordon is at the 2.  

I think Gordon’s minutes will be right around 30-31 all yr barring injuries. Maybe they’re saving him from wear and tear a la Ginobili, but Tyreke will be eating into his minutes while NOP tries to justify the signing and his contract.

 

 

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 So siggy it looks like u watched the game. Why has Eric Gordon looked so bad? He claims to be the healthiest he’s been in 2 years, but I haven’t seen it yet. He was aggreisve tonight but he just can’t seem to get to the rim the way did a few years ago. Also idk if he’s being passive or Monty Wiiliams is not calling his number but there is no way he should be 3rd on the team in FGA on the season, he’s a averaging a carrerew low in ppg and minutes. Despite the way AD has looked this season he’s not a better scorer than Gordon, AD is playing 11 minutes more this year than last and honestly his offensive game is not that much improved

[SiggyParticipant]

 Trey looked great. 11 points in 11 minutes.  Corbin tried to put him in vs favorable matchups, like vs Brian Roberts and Austin Rivers, but Trey did see some minutes vs Jrue in the 4th.  Turned the corner well on a couple of layups.  Had a sweet pull up 3 off of a behind the back escape dribble. Got a poke away steal on I think Tyreke (not sure) and finished in transition.  Had a nice patented step back mid-range J over a big too. Only had one assist off of the PnR, but he looked fine moving the ball and coming off of ball screens.  They actually started him off the ball, but he eventually got it and ran PnR.

Real NBA games are more structured and less chaotic as is the case in summer league games.  Trey looked more comfortable in this setting, but again, it was a low pressure stint vs a relatively weak individual matchup.

 

[SiggyParticipant]

[SiggyParticipant]

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@lakeshow22

As an Eric Gordon supporter, it’s been frustrating to watch. I hate the way Monty Williams is using him. I hate Williams’ offensive sets period. Gordon is being used like he’s Anthony Morrow… A floor spacer. While Gordon is shooting the ball well from 3PT, we all know he’s better than that. Majority of the time, he’s just standing on the perimeter waiting for Jrue Holiday or Tyreke Evans to kick out the ball. I can only take so much of Holiday and Evans dribbling the air out of the ball. I feel like Gordon is barely even involved in some plays.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Gordon so passive and just non-aggressive. He’s never been the type of player to force the issue, but I don’t even enjoy watching him play anymore. 

Physically, despite the fact he’s healthy, I think it’s going to take time for him to regain 100% of his quickness and explosiveness. Remember, he wasn’t even cleared to begin conditioning until late in training camp. As that improves, we’ll see him start to finish better around the rim. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

@lakeshow22

As an Eric Gordon supporter, it’s been frustrating to watch. I hate the way Monty Williams is using him. I hate Williams’ offensive sets period. Gordon is being used like he’s Anthony Morrow… A floor spacer. While Gordon is shooting the ball well from 3PT, we all know he’s better than that. Majority of the time, he’s just standing on the perimeter waiting for Jrue Holiday or Tyreke Evans to kick out the ball. I can only take so much of Holiday and Evans dribbling the air out of the ball. I feel like Gordon is barely even involved in some plays.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Gordon so passive and just non-aggressive. He’s never been the type of player to force the issue, but I don’t even enjoy watching him play anymore. 

Physically, despite the fact he’s healthy, I think it’s going to take time for him to regain 100% of his quickness and explosiveness. Remember, he wasn’t even cleared to begin conditioning until late in training camp. As that improves, we’ll see him start to finish better around the rim. 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Exactly, Monty Williams has no idea how to use Gordon, it’s like he has no idea what kind of player he is. Jrue Holiday dominates the ball so much while Gordon just wait at the 3 point line for a kick out. Its even worst in crunch time when gordon just watches Holiday and Davis play a 2 man game.This is Gordon’s 6th year in the league and I have Never seen him this passive and non involved in the offense. Alot of the blame is on Monty as well as Gordon himself. He doesn’t even look to attack the basket like he onced did. There r some games that Gordon will get off to a good start in the 1st quarter and he gets back in the 2nd and takes 1 shot. There are stretches in the game where he won’t even touch the ball for a few minutes, which seems to effect his defensive effort at times. 

[lakeshow22Participant]

 Exactly, Monty Williams has no idea how to use Gordon, it’s like he has no idea what kind of player he is. Jrue Holiday dominates the ball so much while Gordon just wait at the 3 point line for a kick out. Its even worst in crunch time when gordon just watches Holiday and Davis play a 2 man game.This is Gordon’s 6th year in the league and I have Never seen him this passive and non involved in the offense. Alot of the blame is on Monty as well as Gordon himself. He doesn’t even look to attack the basket like he onced did. There r some games that Gordon will get off to a good start in the 1st quarter and he gets back in the 2nd and takes 1 shot. There are stretches in the game where he won’t even touch the ball for a few minutes, which seems to effect his defensive effort at times. 

[SiggyParticipant]

 Gordon has attempted 144 shots total so far. 71 of those shots have been at the rim, which is on average about 6.5 attempts at the rim.  That is still a good number of attempts per game.  He actually had a greater ratio of jumpers to shots in the paint his last season with the Clips.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201569

He’s still attacking the rim.  He’s just sucked really bad at converting them.  EJ has always been a 3’s and drives player.  He’s never had much of a mid-range game.  His floor game in terms of passing/making plays was never anything notable.  If his driving/finishing game is not working, how else is he supposed to be used?

If you look at his per 36 numbers, his shot attempt distribution is very similar to his last season in LAC.  The only glaring difference is that he finished around the rim MUCH better as a Clipper.

 

[SiggyParticipant]

 Gordon has attempted 144 shots total so far. 71 of those shots have been at the rim, which is on average about 6.5 attempts at the rim.  That is still a good number of attempts per game.  He actually had a greater ratio of jumpers to shots in the paint his last season with the Clips.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201569

He’s still attacking the rim.  He’s just sucked really bad at converting them.  EJ has always been a 3’s and drives player.  He’s never had much of a mid-range game.  His floor game in terms of passing/making plays was never anything notable.  If his driving/finishing game is not working, how else is he supposed to be used?

If you look at his per 36 numbers, his shot attempt distribution is very similar to his last season in LAC.  The only glaring difference is that he finished around the rim MUCH better as a Clipper.

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

Siggy if Gordon and Harden switched teams today, would they have the same role they have now? Would Gordon just stand at the 3 point line and watch jeremy Lin do his thing. The way Monty has used Gordon is quite embarrassing and doesn’t play to his strengths at all

[lakeshow22Participant]

Siggy if Gordon and Harden switched teams today, would they have the same role they have now? Would Gordon just stand at the 3 point line and watch jeremy Lin do his thing. The way Monty has used Gordon is quite embarrassing and doesn’t play to his strengths at all

[SiggyParticipant]

 Harden is much better on the ball and he’s a pretty crap player off of it.  Harden’s also currently better than Gordon is off the bounce in terms of finishing, getting to the line and playmaking.  So no, I don’t think their roles would be the same.  I think the Rockets would be more Dwight-centric with Gordon there.

Gordon is still getting his attempts at the rim.  It could be that Gordon himself is gunshy during certain games about his own ability to drive due to his poor success finishing so far.  He’s a 2 dimensional scorer and if one of those dimensions isn’t working then his options are limited.

 

[SiggyParticipant]

 Harden is much better on the ball and he’s a pretty crap player off of it.  Harden’s also currently better than Gordon is off the bounce in terms of finishing, getting to the line and playmaking.  So no, I don’t think their roles would be the same.  I think the Rockets would be more Dwight-centric with Gordon there.

Gordon is still getting his attempts at the rim.  It could be that Gordon himself is gunshy during certain games about his own ability to drive due to his poor success finishing so far.  He’s a 2 dimensional scorer and if one of those dimensions isn’t working then his options are limited.

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

and Gordon is better off the ball? and what do u mean that Harden is "Currently" better than Gordon off the bounce, will Gordon get better than him? Why cant Gordon be used the same way that the Rockets use Harden? yea he’s not the playmaker harden but he can be just as dangerous offensively. Harden also demands the ball from his teammates, and Gordon doesn’t. Yes Gordon is finishing at a poor rate but there is no way anyone would have predicted a career low in minutes and PPG before the season started. I’m not sure how many pelicans u have seen this year, but just to watch Holiday pound and monopolize the ball while Gordon stands in the corner is not the best way to use him.

[lakeshow22Participant]

and Gordon is better off the ball? and what do u mean that Harden is "Currently" better than Gordon off the bounce, will Gordon get better than him? Why cant Gordon be used the same way that the Rockets use Harden? yea he’s not the playmaker harden but he can be just as dangerous offensively. Harden also demands the ball from his teammates, and Gordon doesn’t. Yes Gordon is finishing at a poor rate but there is no way anyone would have predicted a career low in minutes and PPG before the season started. I’m not sure how many pelicans u have seen this year, but just to watch Holiday pound and monopolize the ball while Gordon stands in the corner is not the best way to use him.

[SiggyParticipant]

Yeah, I’d say Gordon is better off the ball by default.  Harden is flat out lazy off the ball and doesn’t even pay attention half the time. When Gordon is right and healthy he is one of the best slashers in the league.  Would he be better than Harden off the bounce if healthy? Likely no since Harden is one of the best in the league driving, but he’d still be one of hte best slashers in the game, so it’d be closer.  Gordon can’t be used like Harden because he’s not as good as Harden, period.  Gordon is finishing at a pathetic rate, he’s not much of and never has been much of a playmaker off the bounce and he doesn’t draw fouls like Harden.

Like I said, Gordon is still getting his shots. His shot attempt rates are in line with the rest of his career.

Per 36

’10-’11 with the Clips

FGA 16.2

FTA 5.9

3PTA 5.0

’13-’14

FGA 15.5

FTA 5.4

3PTA 4.9

The difference is negligible.  The main difference is that Gordon is shooting 40% from 2 pt range as opposed to 49% with the Clips.  He’s also getting a LARGER ratio of shots from in close as opposed to from 3 compared to when he was with the Clips. He’s just been a terrible finisher. If he was finishing at a league average rate as opposed to how he’s finishing at now, he’d be averaging 20ppg.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SiggyParticipant]

Yeah, I’d say Gordon is better off the ball by default.  Harden is flat out lazy off the ball and doesn’t even pay attention half the time. When Gordon is right and healthy he is one of the best slashers in the league.  Would he be better than Harden off the bounce if healthy? Likely no since Harden is one of the best in the league driving, but he’d still be one of hte best slashers in the game, so it’d be closer.  Gordon can’t be used like Harden because he’s not as good as Harden, period.  Gordon is finishing at a pathetic rate, he’s not much of and never has been much of a playmaker off the bounce and he doesn’t draw fouls like Harden.

Like I said, Gordon is still getting his shots. His shot attempt rates are in line with the rest of his career.

Per 36

’10-’11 with the Clips

FGA 16.2

FTA 5.9

3PTA 5.0

’13-’14

FGA 15.5

FTA 5.4

3PTA 4.9

The difference is negligible.  The main difference is that Gordon is shooting 40% from 2 pt range as opposed to 49% with the Clips.  He’s also getting a LARGER ratio of shots from in close as opposed to from 3 compared to when he was with the Clips. He’s just been a terrible finisher. If he was finishing at a league average rate as opposed to how he’s finishing at now, he’d be averaging 20ppg.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lakeshow22Participant]

So if Gordon never got hurt in the first place, would he not be the best shooting guard in the league by now? Would Harden be better than him? Obviously Harden is currently better, but that has to do with Gordon being injured and playing on losing teams.

Also Gordon is best with the ball in his hands, not waiting in the corner watching holiday dribble the whole shot clock out

[lakeshow22Participant]

So if Gordon never got hurt in the first place, would he not be the best shooting guard in the league by now? Would Harden be better than him? Obviously Harden is currently better, but that has to do with Gordon being injured and playing on losing teams.

Also Gordon is best with the ball in his hands, not waiting in the corner watching holiday dribble the whole shot clock out

[SiggyParticipant]

 Maybe Gordon would be better because he could really defend on top of being a low 20s scorer.  Harden is a godawful defender who’s turning into worse player by the game because of his lazy habits on both ends.

Gordon would be best with the ball in his hands, I don’t think the Pelicans would be better with the ball in his hands though, not in his current state.

 

[SiggyParticipant]

 Maybe Gordon would be better because he could really defend on top of being a low 20s scorer.  Harden is a godawful defender who’s turning into worse player by the game because of his lazy habits on both ends.

Gordon would be best with the ball in his hands, I don’t think the Pelicans would be better with the ball in his hands though, not in his current state.

 

[Author]

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