Interesting article on top 5 post players in the NBA with Dwight and Kobe surprisingly not making the list.
The lebron over kobe argument is wrong IMO.
Lebron may have slightly better percentages but its not comparable because kobe is in the post three times as much and so teams have defensive strategies on what they are going to do when kobe posts up.
Kobe is a much more polished post player.
Lebron has no post up game, and when he does post up, he looks to create and pass, rather than score off of the post. What a bogus list. Wheres Zach Randolph? Perenial 20PPG post up player is not in top 5.
Al Jeff also has some great post up fundamentals/ Moves (check out move 41 seconds in)
I'm a huge LeBron fan but no way he gets top 5 in that category. FlyBobby is right, Kobe is more polished. A better honorable mention would be Lois Scola from the Rockets cuz that man can find ways to score.
A few big men got shafted in the list, but it does show that the assumption Lebron has no post game is a bit of an exagerration
NO WAY LeBron deserves to be on this list!
Yeah he's stronger than every other SF in the league, but he doesn't use his strength to his advantage in the post. When I watched him last year in post-up situations, instead of backing down his opponent and going inside strong, he usually settled for a turnaround fadaway, that wasn't very consistent. Plus he has no moves. He just doesn't have a good feel in the post. If he had been developing his post game like he should've when he got into the NBA, he would be much better than he is now, even though he's great anyway. Scary isn't it?
Putting him over Kobe is LUDICROUS! Wade should even make it over him.
this list is terrible
nene is a good post player dont get me wrong
but he def. does not deserve to be on this list
Am I the only one that noticed that whenever Lebron does post up, It's against the scrubs on really bad teams.
My personal top 5 is:
1. Dirk Nowitzki
2. Dwight Howard
3. Luis Scola
4. Zach Randolph
5. Carmelo Anthony
I don't know about Lebron in the top 5, but he should definitely be top 15- top 20. He was 86/158 in post up situations according to synergy putting him at 54% from there. It doesn't look pretty, but for the most part its effective
Pretty pathetic top 5 IMO. Pau Gasol for as much as I hate the guy, deserves to be top 3 on this list. Kobe has one of the best post games around. LBJ has a beter percent because he's NEVER THERE. Pathetic post player IMO. If he was such a good post player he would have done just that against Dallas when he was failing to make ANY KIND of aggressive offensive play. Ridiculous, this guy clearly doesn't know post play from a hole in his ass.
Am I the only one that thinks that Lebron can do everything Anthony can do in the post and even better. Lebron doesn't even need to do any work on his foot work or strength. He just needs to want to post up.
You'd be better off trying to convince me that 2+2 = 5 than LeBron is a better post player than Kobe.
F stats... Just use the eye test. LeBron doesn't even post up that much. And majority of the time he does decide to post up, he doesn't even look comfortable. LeBron has average to below average footwork on the block... No real go-to move. You can't run an offense through LeBron in the post.
The article talks about LeBron and drawing double teams... Huh? I've not seen LeBron draw many doubles in the post. Boston single covered him with Tony Allen in the 2010 playoffs. When Dallas wasn't playing zone, Marion and Stevenson defended LeBron man to man in the post as well. That's the sad thing about LeBron... He's a gifted passer, but he has no post game to take true advantage of it. Everything is mostly isolation with him. Players like Dirk and Kobe get doubled/tripled nearly every possession. IF you single cover them, they will score more often than not.
Gasol is a top five post player. So is Zach Randolph. Bogus list.
Yes he needs to want to post up, but there is a reason he doesnt want to...its because he is not confident in his post game. He needs to study and work on it until he gains some craftiness and his post play is repititious and becomes 2nd nature. If he does that, then maybe he will "want" to post up more.
So no Al Jefferson, no Z-Bo, & no Dwight? cool list bro...
Even watching the highlight video of LBJ in the post...it just looks unnatural.
Its looks as if he has no idea how to attack in the post and it is a damn shame given his frame. He needs to watch guys like Duncan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Gasol, Randolph, Dirk...etc. He just seems like he tries to drive his shoulder into the defender. He needs to learn how to use his rear end to backdown the defender. Its all about balance and leverage and it doesn't seem like LBJ knows how to apply the concept.
Maybe he needs a physics teacher or something.
i dont know if kobe is a top 5 post player, but he is on a whoel nother level then lebron. I mean you picked the weakest part of lebrons game the one thing everybody wants to see him improve on and said he is top 5 in the league there? How about zbo and pau gasol. I mean those might be the two best post players in the NBA and you have them not even top 5 and behind lebron?
Personally I don't care how you score if it works, it works. Not saying Lebron has no room for improvement, but saying he has no post game because of the way he scores there is rediculous. You ask ppl who's a better pure scorer between Lebron and Carmelo most guys will take Melo even though Lebron has had more 40 and 50 point games. Lebron had the most points of anyone this season with 51 points against Orlando and Carmelo was second with 50 against Houston. Olajuwon, Dirk, and Duncan are and were probably more skilled in the post than Shaq, but that did not make them quite as dominating.
Lebron shot 54% from the post with 158 attempts and was also an excellent passer out of the post. Could he improve? Yeah anyone can improve, but I'm not going to say he has no post game just because it looks more awkward than others.
Look, I bet you more that half of those 50 post moves came against the Cavs and Nets, and he should be an amazing post move, but the bitter truth is that right now, I wouldn't even put him in the top 100. Making a little more than one post move per game is not called a post game.
I love Stats, but I would never say somthing like "Shaq is a better three point shooter than Reggie, cause he went 1-1 one season, and his percentage was higher than Reggie's." Thsi is BS in my opinion, I tried to read some of their other stuff, and it's not that bad, but this was just stupid.
Here is somthing I found interesting, but still slightly off.
Don't let stats deceive you...
LeBron isn't comfortable in the post. Just use the eye test. I mean, we have eight years of seeing this with our own two eyes.
It's not even just about being skilled. I mean, like you said... Shaq wasn't as skilled as Hakeem. However, Shaq was completely comfortable down there and knew what he was doing. LeBron doesn't even look comfortable. He's unsure of himself down there, which is why he is barely there. LeBron has spent majority of his career being an isolation player. IF he had a post game worth talking about (yet this guy has him in the top five), I don't think anybody would've been questioning his pair with D. Wade.
LeBron's post game is the weakest part of his game. I don't even know why anybody would even argue this.
Its definitely the weakest part of his game, but saying its weak in general is false in my opinion. He still shows ability to score down there and is an excellent passer out of the post. I forgot where I read this from, but against Dallas the Heat were effective when Lebron was in the post because he's an excellent passer down there and rarely turns it over. Having a post game isn't just about scoring from there, but is also about the ability to pass out of double teams and find the open man which he is excellent at
Lebron needs to have a Hakeem Olajuwon session like kobe did a few years back and like Dwight did the last two summers. He has all of the physical tools in the world for post play, he just needs to know how to use them and develop a go to move.
He isn't a top 5 or even top 10,but anyone else do like watching Marions's post game?
shawn marion surprises me every time he makes that jump hook he does from post ups. and if the only basketball you ever watched was the 2011 finals, lebron still might not be top 5. also, andre miller has a nice post game and i thought he deserves a mention.
1.Gasol-Has the best post moves out of everyone in the league and is a great passer out of the post..
2.Camelo-The guy is a bully down low..
3.Zack Randolph-Even though he's not that athletic,cant jump and lacks height..He's scoring 80% of the time he gets the ball down low..
4.Al Jefferson-Maybe the most underrated post player in the league ..Has nice footwork and a variety of moves..
5.Duncan-Even though he's declining ,he's still among he top 5 post players..
Rudeboy where you got Dirk?
Dirk is among the top 10 in post players..
But unlike the guys i mentioned he didnt come into the league with great post skills..He's just developed those moves a few years ago...He's perfected them and that has allowed him to be almost impossible to stop...Players make the mistake of allowing him to get into his comfort spots..And they also make the mistake of trying to get physical with him after he gets the ball,they should get physical with him before he gets the ball..By moving him out of his favorite places to operate on the floor...
Great list Rudeboy!
I think that Dirk might pass Tim Duncan soon though.
What really amazes me about Z-Bo's post game is that a high percentage of his shots in the low post are off-balance and what a coach would call a bad, forced shot. The thing is that he makes so many of them it isn't really a bad shot to take.
Lebron just needs to add one or two go-to post moves to his arsenal, his athleticism and strength will do the rest.
I really don't get why the hook shot down on the block is really a pretty rare shot these days. I'm not talking about a baby hook where you just kinda arc it in two feet away from the goal, but a Tim Duncan, Yao Ming, Hakeem Olajowon, Robert Parish hook shot with range up to 7 or 8 feet. It's such an un blockable shot, and since your off arm is away from the defender it takes virtually no space to get it off. Your defender can be bodied up on you 5 feet away from the goal and you can just get a shot off that he cannot block.
It's such an effective shot and I never understood ( other than it doesn't always look very cool) why players today don't use it much, or even practice it. I really enjoy watching skilled post players operate on the block, so I hope Dwight Howard keeps working on it, because he could be unstoppable. I really think he progressed a lot last year including his hook shot.
Tons of Hall of Famers used it as a regular part of their post arsenal, but now it's almost a novelty.
PRACTICE THE HOOK! IT STILL WORKS!
"Don't let stats deceive you...
LeBron isn't comfortable in the post. Just use the eye test. I mean, we have eight years of seeing this with our own two eyes."
THIS!!!! LOL, I really wish EVERY LeBron James fanatic would read that and understand that... It's a total slap in the face... If LeBron had a go to move and low post game, I'm almost positive he would have a few rings right now... And the argument LeBron > Jordan would be valid... I'm not going to go any further on how ridiculous that list was, but I'll give mine...
1. Dirk- Unless you were licking a$$$ or in a man cave, you saw this this year.
2. Melo- So physical, with a fade away...
3. Pau Gasol- Crafty, has the best hands around the bucket
4. Boozer- He's very overrated, but his post game is great
5. Kobe? Z-Bo?
I say that because Kobe is too physical down there he's just lowering his shoulder and plowing thru... Sometimes I wonder what exactly The Dream taught him... I rarely see his fade away from the post now...
Z-Bo is great, but majority of his post moves are ridiculous, come on don't act like I'm the only one who feels like NO ONE can make that shot regularly... I'm always amazed those bogus shots go in...
Timmy is just too old man, he's not as dominant as he used to be... The same for KG... 3 or 4 years ago I would have said KG and Tim... Now, NOPE...
Honestly the PF and Center position is terrible now... There really isn't much hope for it... The best Center in the league doesn't even have a dominating post game, and NO ONE is close to him... Sad, sad, sad...
Did you write that article? I now wonder if I should continue to read your posts under the current circumstances... Are you J-Kidding me? (Like that B-Ball joke huh?) (No?) (Awwww!!!)
Why isn't LaMarcus Aldridge on that list?
After watching a lot of his games this season, he is easilly a top 3 post player right now
I still don't get what you're saying with this bullying crap about Kobe's post game tuck. The guy has quite a few moves down there and footwork that is unmatched. The only time a bullies peope is when he's guarded by smaller players.
FYI, Kobe is physical on the block because that is the best way to perform the post game. Physicality, with a mix of finesse. Didn't you tell me the other day you thought Kobe's post game was overrated and that the only thing good about it was it's effectiveness. I still haven't figured out what that meant bro.
Even if Lebron still had a post game I doubt he'd still be on Jordan's level.
A post game, with mid-range, and a floater (or go to move)... I don't see why he wouldn't be... What else does he need? There's a reason Scottie said what he said after LeBron destroyed the Bulls... The only thing about it LeBron can't keep that up for a whole season and/or playoffs...
Also, you posted something on another post about Bron's mid range game... I'm still not buying it... When LeBron first got into the league 1 in every 7 games his hitting all his jumpers, then it went to 1 in 5, and now its 1 in 4... His stats are beguiling because he goes into hot and cold streaks within a couple of games... I know I'm not the only one who have noticed this trend with him?
It is... Everyone talks about it and I remember being excited for the season, but I actually feel he's just trying to bullying down there... Being physical and TRYING to be physical is 2 different things... Melo takes a couple dribbles down there and make a move... He's so strong that he's not really dipping his shoulder in to get closer or gain seperation... Kobe on the other hand is ALWAYS dipping that shoulder in (its like he's trying to prove something), it's really an offensive foul majority of the time he's doing that... Kobe last year post game was better to me than this years... Before it was actually finesse, now its not... It doesn't matter WHO is gaurding him he is still doing it...
I can't find a video of this year to show you... It's kind of funny that he has this NEW and IMPROVED post game and there isn't a video out there showing him doing work on the block... I'm a Kobe fan and saw majority of his games this year... If you pay attention bro, you'll see what I'm saying...
Dude, I've not missed a Kobe game in over 3 years, and while i agree he's more physical than in years past, the guy doesn't get the ball with deep enough position because the majority of the times he's having to do the dreating himself. Not to mention Derek Fisher is usually the guy throwing post entry passes, and everyone knowsd Derek Fisher is the anti guard nd can't throw an entry pass to save his life. If Kobe was able to go off ball for ONCE in his career, you would see it far more often. Not to mention he's been hurt for 2 1/2 years imiting his quickness in the post which is something needed for a lot of his moves. Personally I think there will be a BIG season in the works for Kobe to prove people like yourself wrong who doubt him and his abilities. We'l agree to disagree for now I suppose. BTW, you still never explained to me what you meant by the whole " the only thing good about Kobe's post game is its effectiveness from the other thread you and I were talking in" I just don't understand how you can be so upset that a guy got more physical in the post and ths became more efficient yet you hate on him for doing so?
Furthermore, Shaq didn't have the most athetically peasing post game, but it worked. It's all about effectiveness IMO. Rehash this thread later in the season assuming there is a season?