Where do the Thunder go in the draft? I was thinking going for a C and SG in round 1, and a stash pick in round 2.
for them to get KCP with the 12, trade with the Mavs for 13, and trade that pick to the Rockets for Thomas Robinson. Lineup with Westbrook, KCP, Durant, Robinson, and Ibaka would be mean. I'm just not feeling the big men in our range. I'd rather wait and see what the Rockets would want for Asik if they end up getting Dwight.
Some pretty simple criteria for the 12th draft pick:
1. Must be a big man (7 footers would be nice)
2. Must be better than Perkins (not hard)
3. Must be able to catch and dunk ball
4. Must be athletic
5. Offensive skill not necessary.
Since Zeller isn't getting past Philly, that sounds like a dead ringer for Steven Adams, if I do say so myself. If not Adams, then probably some other project big man like Nogueira. I'd also like Olynyk here, since he'd be useful when the offense dies, but I'd have to question how well he'll score at the NBA level. Dude has T-Rex arms. He's also not a great defender.
Olynyk might be the scorer at the 5 spot that they need. I think he could play effectively with Serge Ibaka or Nick Collison. Or even be a good backup for Kendrick Perkins.
They should probably go BPA though since they have 3 guys (Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka) out of a four man core.
If I were the Thunder I would want a big man who can score and give guys like Marc Gasol, Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh, and Roy Hibbert trouble. That could be Kelly Olynyk. I am not too sure about Steven Adams.
Kelly Olynyk seems like a no brainer for OKC!!
The problem with Olynyk is he can't guard anyone. OKC doesn't need a C that can score 20 pts, just one that plays good defense, rebounds, and can finish at the rim. with all the chaos Westbrook and Durant create, someone like Steven Adams or Mason Plumlee could average 10+ pts just off of put backs, dump offs, and alley oops.
Exactly, they need their own version of Chris Anderson! A high energy big who can come in/start and just get them easy points while being an annoying defender. People say they need inside scoring, but lets be honest, once Westbrook and Durant mature a little more you will see them planted in the post a lot more then they are now (Sounds similar right? LeBron/Miami?). We've already seen Westbrook try to use the paint more effectively, so now it's Durants' turn. If the aforementioned statement does happen, then all the Thunder would need was another good shooter, and a defensive minded big to complete their team. Shooters grow on trees these days, big men not so much
A little unconventional, but i like a big PG to play next to a scoring pg. I like MCW here. a 3 guard rotaion if Lamb, MCW and Westbrook. I agree with Olynyk being a good fit, but if MCW is on the board????
They also have Reggie, Seflosha, and Liggins. Scotty showed in the post season for some reason he really likes to play Liggins.
in my opinion.
even MCW or Bazz would be ok.
Not sure how many of those guys will still be there at 12 though.
I like Adams because A)His body is ready to guard centers right now. B) He is only 19 and C) I just rewatched the combine and Adams absolutely destroyed it. His jumper was wet. Supposedly he is weak offensively but he looked great at the combine. Ford and Fraschilla were raving about him. Now I know it was in a drills setting, but those other bigs that are supposedly better offensively than Adams sure didn't look like they were at the combine. He hustled everywhere. Ran the floor and even from station to station, when other players were walking. He looked to be in incredible shape. There is just something about this guy that I love. Playing for Team Asia in the 2011 Adidas Nations, he posted 12 points and 20 rebounds against Team USA, 19 points and 9 boards against Australia and then 37 points and 14 points against Team USA in a second game. I'm not saying he was the greatest offensively at Pitt but neither was Len at Maryland. Both were not exactly featured in their respective offenses. Adams took the 5th most FGA's on his team at PITT, so it is clear they weren't feeding him. And he shot 57% on those shots, so it wasn't like he shot poorly either. Len took the 2nd most shots on his team and shot 53%, Olynyk took 45 more shots than the next closest player at Gonzaga but did shoot a ridiculous 63% on those shots, and Zeller took 17 more shots than Oladipo who was 2nd on the team, and made 56% of those shots.
I just feel like Olynyk has the highest bust potential out of that group. He looked robotic and not very coordinated while running the floor and trying to finish at the combine. Plus with him not being able to guard anybody, it would be a wasted opportunity in my opinion. No thanks. I'll pass on Olynyk 10 times out of 10.
For 29, I like Reggie Bullock, Ricky Ledo or Nate Wolters if still available and they don't select a wing with 12.
There are still going to be some nice players to choose from at 32 as well. Lo Brown is an option, but I like the long term upside of a Grant Jerrett or possibly Mike Muscala. Plus they even have the flexibility to gamble on a guy like Archie Goodwin, or draft a stash guy like Jean-Charles or Abrines.
I don't think they will draft all 3 unless one is a stash guy, so they could definitely be active on the trade front as well. I would be interested to see if Dallas would give up 13 for PJ3 and 29.
The key here is that they are in a great position for a championship contender. The sixers had 26 fewer wins than OKC and draft one spot higher, so they are in a unique position to acquire talent that is hardly ever available for the elite teams.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Presti and Co. are able to pull off on Thursday night.
I also believe OKC could use a guy like Olynyk, Ibaka is improving offensively, but he's a 15 PPG scorer at best. I don't expect Kelly to be a 20 ppg score, but I believe he can score at 15-18 ppg per 36 minute rate in the NBA, would be like a nice Channing Frye type off the bench for OKC.
Perkins has degressed, and OKC can use an answer at C, a guy who can rebound at a high rate.
Here are some center options for OKC possibly in the 2nd round
-Jeff Withey fares pretty well here, as his 1.07 overall PPP ranks fifth among the centers in this draft. Withey did his best work cutting to the rim where he was the second highest usage player on 2.8 possessions per-game and the top scorer by a wide margin at 1.57 PPP. On the whole, Withey ranks as the best finisher among centers in this draft shooting an outstanding 79.2% around the rim last season.
-Colton Iverson ranks average or above average across the board. His big body was especially effective in the post, where he used a second ranked 6.5 possessions per-game while scoring a third ranked 1.01 PPP. As dominant as Muscala was on the block in the Patriot League, Iverson's rugged style of player and 24.1% free throw rate made him an even more effective post up scorer in the Mountain West, albeit by a small margin.
-Akron's Zeke Marshall was the second most efficient scorer in this group at 1.165 PPP. Why? He got to the line on an absurd 30.3% of his possessions used, made 71% of his finishing opportunities, and scored a top ranked 1.13 PPP as a dominant figure in the Mid-American conference.
I just hope Steve Adams isn't a lottery pick.
For an athletic 7 footer, he goes to the FT line at a low rate.
4.1 Free Throw Attempts per 40 minutes.
Adams also shoots 44% from the FT line, I really think he's barely anything better than Meyers Leonard.
You're FT% stats are cool and all but you can't possibly expect a freshman big from another country playingin the Big East is going to get refs to blow a whistle anywhere near as often as they are for star upperclassman playing in a small conference.
Adams might be the most physical player in this draft and is as rough as they come.
Ibaka already gives them a guy that scores 10 points a game off put backs, dump offs, and alley oops. If Olynyk can do some high volume scoring then it would complement the Thunder's "big three". He could also complement their other bigs like Perkins, Collison, and even Hasheem Thabeet.
Olynyk might not be quick but neither are Marc Gasol or Roy Hibbert. Those two are just really big and also highly skilled, but they are not athletic freaks which would present problems with someone with average big man athleticism.
If the Thunder want a polished shot blocker who can also defend, rebound some, and score 10 points a night off of garbage baskets, dump offs, and alley oops then they need to look at Jeff Withey. 12 might be too high, but if he is there at 29 then the Thunder should take him. That would give them TWO legit young bigs in Withey and Olynyk who can complement each other well and give OKC a really good four big man rotation of those two plus Ibaka and Collison. Those four would be interchangeable and it would also make Kendrick Perkins expendable. Thabeet would then be a cheap, 7'3 luxury in the 13th man role.
At 32, they should then go with a wing who can shoot. There should be at least one guy there, maybe Reggie Bullock if he falls. Or, no one is there, they can trade with Memphis and trade down to 41 and 55. They can get a guy to stash overseas at 41 if they plan on resigning Kevin Martin (or sign JJ Reddick who would be a PERFECT fit), and then at 55 they can get a legit backup point guard like Peyton Siva or Myck Kabongo if they fall. Or, look at DJ Stephens as a freak athlete who they can use to complement the Big Three as well as use as an energy defender off the bench (picture Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb/Thabo
, DJ Stephens, Kelly Olynyk/Perry Jones, and Jeff Withey).
Other than this, I think JJ Reddick would be a good replacement for Kevin Martin. Reddick is an even better spot up shooter, he's been to the Finals, and might even come cheaper.
PG Russell Westbrook
SG JJ Reddick
SF Kevin Durant
PF Serge Ibaka
C Kelly Olynyk
PG Reggie Jackson
SG Thabo Sefolosha/Jeremy Lamb
SF Perry Jones/DJ Stephens
PF Nick Collison
C Jeff Withey/Kendrick Perkins/Hasheem Thabeet
they won't be able to afford Redick either. He made a little over 6 million last year, and they won't be able to offer that. Unless he is willing to take a pay cut, he won't be playing in OKC.
But I do agree that he would be a great fit with OKC.
Also, whoever they draft at C will not start over Perkins this season, unless they are able to get Len or Zeller, and even then it isn't a guarantee. Olynyk would definitely not start over Perk. I don't think Adams would either.
My Thunder Center wishlist is Zeller > Olynyk > Nogueira
Zeller would be ideal, but they will have to do some trading to move up to get him, he will not be there at 12. But the question is who do you get rid of? No one will want Perkins or his contract, so unfortunately they will probably have to give up one of the young guns in Lamb or PJ3, I'd much rather lose PJ3...but I'm not sure anyone would take PJ3 for Zeller straight up so probably have to toss in someone like Liggins or Thabeet.
Olynyk is my second choice, he's nowhere near as good as Zeller but he's the next best thing available at 12. He would provide the inside scoring Thunder desperately need.
Lastly I wouldn't mind Nogueira, not quite the scorer the two above are but pretty agile and athletic for a 7 footer. Add in some good defense and rebounding and high potential.
I know some people think Steven Adams should be the Thunders pick but I don't see it. He's essentially just a younger and slightly taller Perkins. Thunder need post scoring, not post defense, they have post defense covered in Ibaka, Perkins, Collison, and even some in Thabeet, to get a 5th defensive big man makes ZERO sense at all. Yes I realize Nogueira is also more defensive than offensive but him & Adams are basically the same except Nogueira is more athletic and less of a project so that's why I gave him the nod over Adams.
is way better offensively than he is given credit for. Besides no center is going to be getting a lot of touches for this team. Between KD, Russ, Ibaka and Jackson - they took 70 out of 81 shots per game for OKC last season. This thought that they are going to draft Olynyk to throw the ball to down low and have him operate is absurd. Who are you taking shots away from? It is simply not happening.
Having 5 defensive big men and no offensive big men is "absurd". I never said Olynyk is going to get a lot of offensive touches or points, but it's always nice to have that option. They currently do not have that option at all, when Durant & Westbrook are both struggling they have no 3rd go to guy, it will be nice to have someone in the post to toss it off to in certain situations and know that they can get the job done when called on.
Yes Adams can score, but not near the level Zeller or Olynyk can, so don't even try and go there. But Adams doesn't bring anything offensively that Ibaka or Perkins can't already do, however Olynyk does bring something that Ibaka & Perkins can't do.
You can never have too much defense. I have never heard that said anywhere else.
Adams is 19 to Olynyk's 22. He weighs 15-20 pounds more than Olynyk already and is a much better athlete.
What you don't seem to grasp is that OKC is not playing either guy more than a few minutes per game next season and possibly the year after that. They are in win now mode and aren't benching Perk to give minutes to a rook who plays no D. Perk is a proven vet. I know he doesn't give you much offensively, but the positives do not overcome the negatives in that situation. Adams being 19, has more time to develop and it is a lot easier to teach someone how to shoot than to be a better defender or to be a better athlete. Two years ago Adams was a projected top 5 pick, and I think he has the potential to be a poor man's Andre Drummond.
It's fine, we can agree to disagree. That's one of the things that makes the draft so great.
No I do not agree to disagree, your points are invalid.
*What you don't seem to grasp is that OKC* doesn't need another defensive Center that is a project. Remember Robert Swift, Johan Petro, Mouhamed Sene, Sasha Kaun, Cole Aldrich, Byron Mullens, Steven Hill? Hmm strange how Steven Adams reminds me of every single one of those guys as draft prospects. They did NOT work out, Steven Adams will NOT work out.
At least Olynyk is something different, and a change of scenery from the Centers the Sonics/Thunder have drafted recently.
Therefore he has a legit chance to last longer than his rookie contract.
The fact that he's 22 only helps his cause, Thunder are indeed in win now mode, Olynyk is ready to come off the bench NOW and Adams is not, the only court Adams would touch is the Tulsa 66ers.
But my points are every bit as "valid" as yours. To quote the dude... "well, that is like your opinion man."
Seeing as how Chard Ford, This Site's draft mock, Si.com, Yahoo all rank Adams ahead of Olynyk, with DX listing Olynyk over Adams. I realize that just because they say so, it doesn't make it true but come on, you gotta at least see that Adams is viewed as a better prospect by a lot of people. It's fine, you disagree. I get it. But don't come with this garbage about points not being valid. A lot of people feel the way I do and a lot of people feel the way you do. In the end OKC is my squad so I am passionate about who they select. I love to debate and think about different scenarios of what they can do with their pick. I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it. If he is selected by OKC and does what you say he will, I will be the first to give you credit for it.
Yes Adams is the better prospect, and in the long run may be a better overall player. My argument was based on right now, and best fit, not who will be better 5+ years from now. I realize if Adams is available the Thunder will definitely give him a very hard look and may pick him, but I don't think he's a better fit than Olynyk. I'm the type of person that would rather teams draft on need than BPA, but that's just not how it is. In all reality though I wish they'd pursue Zeller, even if had to lose a couple bench guys. He's BPA & Need all wrapped up in a nice bundle.
Teehee...you just called Cynthia "man"
Everyone will have an opinion on this. I do not believe Olynyk is not the win now option you are looking for and to get that option you need to be looking in the FA market. Olynyk's lack of athleticism and length worries me, I am not convinced that he can translate his college ball success to the much more physical environment of the NBA. If he is to play center he is going to required to bang bodies in the paint with much more physical opponents than he has encountered to date and is going to struggle as a rebounder and in blocking shots. In the long run I see him as a role player who may end up as a tweener between centre and PF with a good outside shot but with limited success inside.
Adams is 19 and 255lb and he is going to add 15-20lb. He is going to be much better equipped to compete inside than Olynyk both in the short and longer term. There is no question in my mind that he has a much greater upside. Just about all college big men are going to be projects in the NBA environment and the workouts are used to give coaches some idea how quick they learn. It seems that Adams has been impressing with his energy, work ethic and BBIQ not to mention the 15-18' jumper that he was not allowed to utilize at Pitt. On balance I am in the Adams camp because he is a potential starter down the track and Olynyk is a potential role player. His selection over Adams would be short sighted.
Adams has no footwork, doesn't get to the FT line, doesn't have a go to move and he shoots 44% from the FT line. He's as raw as it gets. His offense will suffer in the NBA until he makes improvements.
it is hard to get to the free throw line when you shoot the 5th most shots on your team. He averaged 5.3 shots per game for god's sake. 2.2 free throws per game off of that many shot attempts isn't bad.
Where as Drummond average 8.5 shots per game and averaged 2.58 FT attempts per game at UCONN.
Yes Adams shot miserably from line, but Drummond shot 29% from the line the year before at UCONN.
It only show another problem in Adams game and maybe the most Significant
- lack of assertiveness
It only show another problem in Adams game and maybe the most Significant
- lack of assertiveness
You clearly have never watched Adams play. Hes one of the strongest and most rugged players in the draft. He grew up playing basketball against rugby players and as a byproduct cherishes contact.
Also the foul line argument is ignorant because you fail to take into account that freshman in the Big East simple do not get foul calls let alone a freshman big from another country who barely got touches or minutes.
Still Adams would run the floor hard and use his superior strength to seal off defenders down low he just simple never got touches similar to Favors and Drummonds situation in college only worse.
Drummond is a different level athlete, A level. AD also a monster rebounder and defender (1.7 spg 2.8 bpg per 36) rim protector and stands at 6"11 270lbs. He's always going to be a bad free throw shooter, but comparing the two is insane. AD is about 5 levels above Adams.
Big men who just rely on athleticism to get by don't last long in the NBA.
Bebe is not a better athlete then Adams. Adams is stronger, faster and can jump high. Adams and Bebe are the same height in socks the big difference is Adams is year younger, 35 pounds heavier and can jump around 5 inches higher. Bebe advantages are a 1.5 inch longer wingspan and a massive 5 inch difference in wingspan which cancels out Adams having the higher vertical.
The main difference when talking about Adams and Bebe tho is the fact that Adams is a big muscle bound bruiser while Bebe is a smooth antenna armed slithery type player.
If OKC goes big, which many people would agree would be a smart decision, I think they should go for Adams if he is available. He offers great upside for them at #12. But if he's not, they may be better off trading down with Atlanta or some other team to try to acquire Gorgui Dieng + extra picks. When you have Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka who can all score the ball, and even Lamb and Sefolosha (maybe Martin if he's back) can also score. So Dieng looks to be a good fit as he's an NBA ready defender and he even has range out to 15-18 feet. I think he's one of the most underrated bigs in the class. You could even argue that Gorgui Dieng is the best center prospect now, though he doesn't offer the upside of Adams, Len, Gobert, Nogueira, etc.
I've been saying this too. Dieng would be a great fit and he has already met with the Thunder. Like you said he is a good rim protector and can hit the mid range jumper. Also, his passing is very underrated.
if he somehow slips to 29, because I would rather take him late than Withey. This could allow them to take the best wing player available at 12.
I'm a Thunder fan and was really excited the last couple of weeks that Adams might be available. I thought he will rise his stock a lot after the combine and workouts and he did. He has the potential to be the 3rd best player from this draft and I still think this could happen. After I thought about this whole situation for some time I don't think Adams would be a good fit for the Thunder. He has tremendous upside but his biggest holes are exactly what the Thunder biggest needs are. Ibaka has developed very good offensively but we all know that Perk is not just suck!ng at defense and rebounding but can't make a play on the offensive end at all. The biggest problem is that both Ibaka and Perk and even Collison who I like a lot are all black holes on offense. If I'm not mistaken all three average like 1 assist per game and that really needs to be fixed now. They not only need a back to the basket player who can score down low but they really need someone who can pass the ball and is not only the last station in the set play. Having KD, Westbrook and Martin on the roster is taylor made for adding someone like Olynyk. But there are a couple of problems who need to be taken into consideration with their picks. K-Mart is a FA and if they want to keep him (what I expect them to do for like 3 years 24/26mil) they won't need all of their picks this year. Zeller might be an even better fit and I can see Presti trading picks and/or maybe PJ3 to get Zeller if they like him more over Olynyk.
My main problem with all this scenarios is they can have Withey later (or trade their late first and early 2nd rounder) if he isn't there anymore. They big question is why draft let's say Olynyk then you don't need Withey anymore (Pleiss could/will come over next year). Imagine if someone like Bazz or even Oladipo slips to them. Why not add depth at the wing and draft Withey.
Very tough decision for the Thunder this draft since they need to gamble a bit not knowing how the Martin situation will work out.
Right now I go with the Olynyk pick or even better Zeller. If both are gone they need to decide if they want to trade for one of them or they need another plan. I trust Presti enough that he will make the right decisions and think he knows that this is the last time for a while he has a chance to upgrade via high draft pick in a very talented big men draft class!
They should try to trade the pick and fillers for Paul Pierce. Maybe the pick, Jeremy Lamb, Thabeet and a filler. They'd be a really good team...
They need a C and a SG...
Steven Adams is a good choice for #12...