I went through each team and counted out how many guys I thought have established themselves as legitmate starters. Here's the results:
Pacers-7 (Plus Dahntay Jones. Trying not to be biased, so you decide for yourself)
If you got questions...I got answers
There are 150 starting spots in the NBA. Your list adds up to 186. I guess my questions are:
1. What exactly are you talking about?
2. Are these guys who were once legit starters, or are all of them good enough to start right now?
3. You really think there are 186 legit starters in the NBA? Define "legit".
4. Can you name the players you selected for every team, just so we have an idea of what you see as a "legit starter"?
5. Do you not think it is at times good to have starting caliber players come off of the bench? Do you think teams should start their best players regardless, or that it may at times be good to have someone come off to provide a boost to the second unit? Would you still consider this person a starter if they played, 26-30 minutes per game?
Also, just a suggestion, I think this would be a good worth while post for the main board instead of this one. IF you gave more of an explanation into what you think this means or why you think this matters. Why not provide answers and accept questions rather than provide numbers and expect questions?
yeah, for instance...if you have Marcus Thornton and Jamal Crawford as legitimate starters....thats how YOU interpret it. While both are talented enough to start on modest teams, they are best served in a reserve role. They would not be legitimate starters on contending teams. They are talented enough to start, but more effective off the bench.
1. Legit starters
2. All of these guys are good enough to start right now. Not 3 years ago, not three years down the road. Right now.
3. Yes, 186 guys who really deserve to be an NBA starter at this point in time.
4. Heck, no. Give me a team and I'll tell you, but I'm not listing them all.
5. Like Surve mentioned, Thornton and Crawford definitely deserve to be starters, even if they are better utilized off the bench.
Seriously though, what does this prove? You gave no definition for legit. Who cares if you start when the game is 48 minutes long? There are minutes that need to played by every role. Plus, if there are 186 "legit" starters in the NBA, my guess is that there are at least half that could be vastly improved upon.
I have a hard time at understanding the meaning of this in terms of wins or being competitive. Yes, you have the 76ers and Heat with 8, they are both good. But, you have the Kings, Wolves and Bobcats with 7. Clearly, their "legit starters" are not on the level of many other teams. Also, I do not get the concept of guys that "deserve to be starting". I guess it is a privilege and you would want to. I think of it more along the lines of "they deserve to be playing solid minutes".
My ultimate hope was that you might see that while you came up with 186 "legitimate starters", you might realize that some of them are not actually guys you would WANT to be starting. You went through 30 teams and only found ONE with only 4 players you found legitimate as starters. When I went and looked over rosters, I saw a lot of players that obviously logged big minutes and some who I think could start even if they were not currently. The key is, "would these players give me the competitive advantage at the spot they are starting at?"
It may not be as black and white as I put it, also am not saying that you are wrong. There could be 186 legitimate starters in the NBA. Nonetheless, there are only 16 play-off teams. To me, that means there are at least 14 teams out there who need either upgraded depth or an increased level of talent in a starting position. To me, here are guys I consider "legitimate starters" and "solid role players whom you start in a pinch, but are not top tier".
Legit Starters: LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh
Role Players: Shane Battier, Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole, Mike Miller (?)
Legit Starters: Andre Iguodala, Jrue Holiday
Role Players: Spencer Hawes (was playing in the first category to start the year), Elton Brand, Evan Turner, Thaddeus Young, Lou Williams
I am guessing Jodie Meeks was your 8th guy, but I think with most teams, if they started Jodie Meeks, they would be actively looking for an improvement. This is why I question the value of this list of "legitimate starters". It is fine to be able to start in a pinch, but are these guys going to help my team win games if they are starting for me? Plus, will it matter if I start them or bring them off the bench? Guess that is what I was really wondering.
What do you want me to answer? One question at a time, please.
Blazers I Think this season nba cahampion is MİAMİ :) Very nice..The King Lebron James
I think there are more than 186 "legit" starters in the league.
You obviously do not want to answer anything. I just saw this so I apologize for the late response. But, I just wanted to know what this list really proves?
There probably wont equal to the exact number of spots but hes the players who i think can start on a team
Celtics- Ray allen, Paul Pierce, KG,Rondo maybe bass, and pietrus
Nets-Deron Williams, Brook Lopez, kris humprhies, maybe jordon farmar
Knicks- Melo,Amare,Chandler maybe Jermey lin and Jr smith
76ers- Iggy,Holiday, maybe Hawes,turner, and Thad young
Raptors- Bargnani, calderon, maybe DeRozen, Barbosa, and amir johnson
Bulls- Drose,Boozer, RIP hamilton, Deng,Noah, maybe Taj Gibson
Cavs- Irving, Jamison, Ramon Sessions, Varojao, maybe Triston Thompson
Pistons-Gordon,Monroe,Knight,Prince maybe stuckey, Charlie V
Pacers- Granger,West, Paul George, Hibbert, Collison, Geroge Hill maybe Physco T
Bucks- Jennings, Bogut,Jackson,Dunleavy
Hawks- Horford, Joe Johnson, J.smith, Hinrich,Teague, maybe williams and Mcgrady
Bobcats- Kemba Walker, DJ Augustin, maybe Biyombo and cory maggete
Heat-Wade,James,Bosh,Battier,Miller, maybe chalmers and norris
Wizards-R.Lewis,Wall, maybe N.Young, and J. Magee
Mavs- Dirk,Kidd,Marion,carter,Odom, maybe Jason Terry
Rockets- Lowry,Dalembert,Scola, Kevin Martin,maybe Dragic
Griz-Conley(i guess),M.Gasol, Rudy Gay, Z. Randolph, maybe mayo and t. allen
Spurs- Duncan,Parker, Ginobili,RJ, maybe Blair, and Splitter
Nuggets-Gallo,Lawson,Miller,Nene maybe Harrington,affalo and Mozgov
Twolves-Rubio,Beasley,Love, Ridnour, Derrick Williams, maybe Johnson, and webster
Blazers-Aldridge,Batum,Camby,Felton,Matthews,Wallace, maybe Crawford
Thunder-Durant, Harden, Westbrook,Ibaka,Perkins maybe Collison, and thabo
Jazz- Al Jefferson, Favors,Harris,Hayward, Josh Howard,Milsap maybe Kanter
Warriors- Curry, Ellis,David lee maybe D.Wright and Biedrins
Clippers- CP3,Griffin, Billups,Butler, Deandre Jordan,Mo williams maybe Kmart
Lakers- Kobe,Gasol,Bynum,Metta world peace, Troy Murphy
Suns-Nash,Hill,Gortat, Maybe Dudley, Redd, and channing
Kings-Cousins,Evans,Hickson,thorton, salmons maybe thompson
Jeff green would be a starter but hes out right now
These are my possible legit starters keep in mind i did leave some players off(rookies, and maybe other players) and that might be because i havent seen them play so you can make your own changes if you dont agree.
Don't prove anything, it's just interesting to discuss.
@ Proud Grandpa: Than you really went into the discussion, lol. Your responses just had so little behind them, man, I was a little disappointed to be honest. I mean, you do not have to write as much as I do, just maybe do a little more than write one sentence replies. Plus, how long would it take to write your starters? Not very. I would settle for copying and pasting.
@Scottoant: I will give mine as people I want to start (which I will label "starters") and people who could start in a pinch (which I will label "pinch hitters")
Starters: Rondo, Paul Pierce, KG, Ray Allen
Pinch-hitters: Brandon Bass (I like Pietrus, but he has never seemed to stick around starting. Guessing there must be a reason)
Starters: Deron Williams, Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries (think he is in the bottom half of PF's, but he shoots alright and rebounds)
Pinch-hitters: MarShon Brooks (looks like a future starter), Anthony Morrow, DeShawn Stevenson (Maybe Farmar, but he signed there knowing he was going to be a back-up. He also never took that Lakers starting PG spot, when it was definitely there)
Starters: Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, Jeremy Lin (really early, but certainly looking the part)
Pinch-hitters: Landry Fields (Maybe Iman Shumpert, though shot selection is ugly)
Starters: Andre Iguodala, Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young (when will it be his time to shine?), Spencer Hawes (I don't really like him that much and he is in a contract year, but he has played well)
Pinch-hitters: Lou Williams, Elton Brand, Evan Turner, Nikola Vucevic (certainly looking like one, which is a compliment. By the way, Nocioni used to be, but does not look much like one anymore)
Starters: Andrea Bargnani, DeMar DeRozan
Pinch-hitters: Jose Calderon (all I know is, he was a great back-up and an average starter, which leads me to rank him as this), Leandro Barbosa (though definitely best off the bench), Jerryd Bayless, Ed Davis (I do not think Amir Johnson is a good starter, at least he hasn't been)
Starters: Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer (Who played like a pinch-hitter in the play-offs), Luol Deng
Pinch-hitters: Taj Gibson, Rip Hamilton (used to be an All-Star, now a sort of last ditch alternative), Ronnie Brewer (awesome defender, could probably help a lot of teams out on the wing)
Starters-Kyrie Irving, Anderson Verajao, Antawn Jamison (problem is, what position? he is closer to pinch hitter, but can still score)
Pinch-hitters-Ramon Session (decent starting PG, but not great), Tristan Thompson (still definitely has a chance to be a decent starter), Anthony Parker (in his last days), Omri Casspi (being generous to my fellow Israeli, who showed a lot of promise as a rookie)
Starters: Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight, Rodney Stuckey, Tayshaun Prince
Pinch-hitters: Ben Gordon (was near All-Star level, but those days seem to be gone), Charlie Villanueva (might be pushing it and maybe Jerebko is more deserving, but I think if Charlie got starter minutes, he could still do moderately well. Really talented, just never put it all together)
Starters: Danny Granger, David West, Roy Hibbert, Paul George, Darren Collison (though way closer to pinch-hitter than the others)
Pinch-hitters: Psycho T, George Hill
Starters: Bogut, Brandon Jennings, S-Jax
Pinch-hitters: Ersan Ilyasova, Drew Gooden, Mike Dunleavy (maybe, though definitely not big on him starting)
Starters: Al Horford, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Jeff Teague (huge? Maybe, but still not totally sold)
Pinch-hitters: Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, T-Mac
Starters: Kemba Walker, Corey Maggette (though injuries and history of not winning probably put him as a pinch-hitter)
Pinch-hitters: DJ Augustin, Boris Diaw, Tyrus Thomas, Gerald Henderson and maybe Biyombo
Starters: LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh (at least they are all good ones)
Pinch-hitters: Shane Battier (probably would be happy with him starting, but seems more complementary at this point in his career), Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, Mario Chalmers (certainly looking like a decent starter), Norris Cole (ultimate bench spark plug, like him there)
Starters: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu (SF is not an incredibly deep NBA position right now), Ryan Anderson
Pinch-hitters: Jameer Nelson (used to be bonafide, now I am not sure), Jason Richardson (same as Jameer), Big Baby (though I ultimately do not think you want to start Baby), JJ Reddick (same as Baby)
Starters: John Wall, JaVale McGee (though, he is not exactly optimal), Nick Young (super one dimensional, though pretty good at that dimension)
Pinch-hitters: Andray Blatche, Jordan Crawford, Rashard Lewis (does not look good this year. Sure they are hoping Vesely pans out, but I have not been to impressed)
Starters: Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd (though reaching the end), Shawn Marion, Jason Terry (though great at his role)
Pinch-hitters: Lamar Odom, Brendan Haywood (because he is huge), Vince Carter, Roddy Bucks (I still have faith in him)
Starters: Lowry, Scola, Martin
Pinch-hitters: Patrick Patterson, Courtney Lee, Chandler Parsons (though, where in the hell is Marcus Morris?)
Starters: Marc Gasol, Z-Bo, Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo (still have some faith in him as well), Mike Conley
Pinch-hitters: Tony Allen, Marreese Speights
Starters: Eric Gordon, Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman
Pinch-hitters: Carl Landry, Trevor Ariza, Jarrett Jack, Marco Bellinelli, Gustavo Ayon (also like Al-Farouq Aminu, but has yet to prove much)
Starters: Timmy, Tony, Manu
Pinch-hitters: Tiago Splitter, DeJuan Blair, Gary Neal, Kawhi Leonard, Richard Jefferson (think James Anderson is good as well, could be in this category)
Starters: Nene, Gallo, Ty Lawson, Andre Miller (should be starting somewhere next year)
Pinch-hitters: Mozgov (REALLY would not want to start this guy, but if you must), Al Harrington, Rudy Fernandez, Corey Brewer, Kenneth Faried (looking like one)
Starters: Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Pekovic (early, but looking like one), Mike Beasley (though still not my favorite)
Pinch-hitters: Derrick Williams (will get his time to shine eventually), Darko (if you must), Wes Johnson, Luke Ridnour
Starters: LaMarcus Aldridge, Gerald Wallace, Nicolas Batum, Wes Matthews, Jamal Crawford (though he is great at his role), Raymond Felton (though playing like a pinch-hitter, big time)
Pinch-hitters: Marcus Camby, Joel Przybilla (How I wish Greg Oden were healthy. He would be a starter)
Starters: Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden (though, again, role), Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins (even though I am not crazy about him as a top notch center, seems he would start on most teams)
Pinch-hitters: Thabo Sefolosha, Nick Collison (I am serious, he could start and help a few teams)
Starters: Al Jeff, Millsap, Devin Harris (though playing like a pinch-hitter)
Pinch-hitters: Gordon Heyward (though, looking like he may be a guy you would not mind starting), Earl Watson, Derrick Favors (will eventually be a starter), Enes Kanter (same), Josh Howard, CJ Miles, Alec Burks
Starters: Steph Curry, Monta Ellis, David Lee
Pinch-hitters: Klay Thompson, Andris Biedrins, Dorrell Wright, Nate Rob, Brandon Rush (Ekpe has not looked bad these last few games either)
Starters: Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Caron Butler, DeAndre Jordan (not crazy about him. I would have Chauncey Billups as well, but I do not know if he is coming back)
Pinch-hitters: Eric Bledsoe, Mo Williams (found his perfect role as a bench scorer), Randy Foye
Starters: Kobe, Bynum, Pau
Pinch-hitters: Matt Barnes, Metta, McBob, T-Murph, Blake (sorry, Fish ain't cuttin it)
Starters: Nash, Gortat, Hill
Pinch-hitters: Jared Dudley (playing pretty well as a starter), Kieff, Channing, Shannon Brown (Don't think Mike Redd really fits here anymore)
Starters: Cousins, Reke
Pinch-hitters: Marcus Thornton, Isaiah Thomas (who has been NICE as a starter), Jimmer, Hickson, Hayes, Jason Thompson, John Salmons
For those confused with the use of "pinch-hitter", think of it as a substitution for an actual starter (hence why I chose it, in this case usually meaning a replacement for a position you would rather have a more adequate starter than the one you have). To me, this was actually an excercise in seeing how these teams are structured and why some of them are as good as they are. I did not get that out of your Grandpa, but I guess I had to do it myself to see the way these teams are structured and which ones are struggling at certain spots.
I think there are more than 186 "legit" starters in the league. There are plenty of guys who can fill a role in a starting line-up, even if they aren't one of their team's top five players. Gurs like Landry Fields can fit in with many talented teams without being the focal point of their offense. Most teams shouldn't start their top five players, as they don't necessarily constitute their best lineup. I think most people put to much stake in who starts and not enough in who gets minutes. Starting is a fairly arbitrary designation.
yeah, for instance...if you have Marcus Thornton and Jamal Crawford as legitimate starters....
Why not provide answers and accept questions rather than provide numbers and expect questions?
Griz-Conley(i guess),M.Gasol, Rudy Gay, Z. Randolph, maybe mayo and t. allen