I am a Bulls fan.
The second I found out Rose was out for the year, I immediately felt the Bulls should tank.
Trade Deng, trade Boozer, trade Gibson, get any picks you can, send Noah on vacation, tell Butler to take 2 months to come back, whatever it takes.
They're off to a great start losing by 30 yesterday and losing to the Jazz today.
I just don't see why people are against this logically speaking. This isn't the NFL or MLB where random teams always seem to be good. You need stars to win. Why do I want to watch Luol Deng lug this team to 39 wins and a first round exit so he can walk this summer and we have the same semi-contender that is super dependant on one of the most fragile players in the league?
I want Jabari Parker. I want Andrew Wiggins. Hell I will take Dante Exum or Marcus Smart.
Anyone who might be an All Star level player is great for us. I want Charlotte to finish with the 11th pick or higher so we can get their pick too. I want us to move Deng to a contender so we can get another low round first too.
I want the Bulls to rebuild, and the draft, and aquiring assets is the best way to do that.
If the NBA wants no tanking, then they ought to make the draft completely random. All 30 teams can win. Because the second you lose your grip on being a championship level team, it is the obvious choice. I saw something about Bucks fans taking out a billboard on them tanking or something, why not? Why do fans want to see an OJ Mayo and Gary Neal lead team?
The NBA is about stars. Tanking is how you get the stars. Not losing on purpose, and not hapless basketball. But putting your team in position to fail.
The Bulls would be far better off with a top 5-7 pick, a mid rounder, a late rounder, Nikola Mirotic, D Rose, Noah, Butler, and a boatload of cap then bringing back the super Rose-reliant starting 5 of Derrick, Butler, Deng, Gibson, and Noah.
That's another second tier contender. That's another D Rose injury away from mediocrity.
Bulls, you stink right now. Just tank.
Its hard for me to imagine Thibodeau packing it in and tanking the season.. its just not his style.
Well, this decision isn't really up to the coach...
I doubt they find many takes for those contracts they have especially Boozer. He is playing pretty well this year but he can't be trusted at 15 million per season. Deng is an expiring deal so they should try to move him but the market for him will be limited to a couple teams that won't be offering anything too great.
Tanking is probably the best way this team can get back to title contention but I don't see it happening. They play way too hard every night and have a great coach. Their defense led them to the playoffs last year and the East isn't really any better this year.
Your attitude stinks, it makes me immensely angry.
I hate when this sort of argument is offered in sports.
Let me address my first issue with this. The Bulls do not deserve a top pick. The Bulls have more talent then many many many other teams anyway. Why should they want to give up all their core guys just to get one star? Heaps of other teams do not have the talent the bulls do. They are not deserving of a top 3 or top 4 pick. The suns, bobcats, kings, bucks, jazz, for example, are more worthy to get a wiggins or a parker. Not the bulls who, by your idea, are going to give up talent.
Secondly, by your logic any team who doesn't appear to be a real genuine contender for the title should tank. At this rate this would mean about a handful of teams should compete 100% on the court as they are able to have a legit crack at the championship. For example the Heat, OKC, Indy, Spurs, Clippers, Warriors and the Rockets are the main teams who you would think have a good shot to take it out.
So if all Gms think this way teams who are bottom 4 (Especially in the East) like the Bulls or teams who are just merely filling out the playoff spots and do not in all honesty have a great chance to win it should tank. Following these, teams not making the playoffs might tank even more as they have an even less talented list and not going to make the playoffs anyway so why get stuck in that all dreaded 9th spot.
This creates a MASSIVE decrease in the level of play and quality of the NBA. As you said the bulls should rest Noah and Butler? If it is okay for your team to rest two of its better players why shouldn't other teams? Why shouldn't other teams rest some of there players and tank and try to get a good pick?
This means the fans are ultimately let down. They are the one's watching the game and make the game. This is a massive slap in the face to them. They support these teams and get them going.
If you think it is okay for your team, who have a good pool of talent anyway to tank, then this results in a precedent of other teams who also have a good level of talent and lower seeds to tank. This ruins the game!!!!!
Please, think about the quality of the game before you post such stupid ideas. We all want to see the best possible games and match ups, this will not happen if lower seeds tank, rest players and take picks or star players such as a Wiggins or Parker from teams who actually need it.
I don't want to sound mean but this really irks me.
"We all want to see the best possible games and match ups..."
Hey, crazy idea here, but if the Bulls manage to get a Wiggins or Parker, isn't that going to be exciting? Wouldn't that be GREAT for the league that a big market team gets a big time player? Not just get a big time player, but draft him, develop him, nurture his talents, so that the city that drafts him has pride in who is on the team?
By your logic, if I want to see the best match ups and best games, I want the Bulls to tank and I want them to get an elite prospect because then, ultimately, they become one of the powerhouse teams. And they don't have to do some free agency "team-up" to do it ala the Heat, Celtics of years previous, etc.
By no means is tanking a great thing for the fans since, you're right, they suffer from the lack of competition. But then that also means that teams that are always dwelling in the lottery are just a slap in the face to their fans for sucking every year. Competition is a good thing in everything. But not every team can be competitive year after year, especially when they're decimated by injuries, or are given a tragic blow like the Bulls have been dealt. So they make the decision to take a year off of being competitive (and therefore letting someone else take their spot), so that they can make a move to increase their chances for the future of being competitive for longer.
So your point is that a decent team performing badly on purpose the whole season in order to snatch good prospects away from genuinely struggling teams is ok? Well wow.
If you put Andrew Wiggins or any other of the top tier players from this draft on a team that is historically bad, does it make a difference? Kyrie is a superstar, everyone can agree. Yet even though he is one of the best PG's, is his team a winning team? No. I'm a Wolves fan so I've gotten used to the idea that they're not exactly going to be competing for a championship year in and year out. But for the teams that are big market teams, for the continued success of the league, it is better for them to have continuous success. This league is a bussiness, and like many are fond of saying, Stern will rig a draft to favor one team over another. Especially if that team is one that will help the further development of the league and its profits.
"The Bulls do not deserve a top pick"
How exactly does any team deserve to win a lottery?
The Bulls went from 6-1 to win the title to 20-1 in the blink of an eye. It isn't just Rose being hurt that has put the bulls in a predictament though. They are due to lose Deng because they can't afford to resign him. Boozer is under contract for a bunch of money they don't really want to pay him and he likely won't be traded. Noah is a good center but he isn't good enough to be the 2nd best player on a title team.
The Bulls won't tank but if your main goal is winning championships it would honestly be their best option. Especially with the talent pool of 5 potential all stars at the top of this draft. Now if they want to be competetive this year and the next couple years instead of rebuilding they can continue on the track they are on. That would be more beneficial to the fans in the short term but probably detrimental in the long run because I don't see them winning a title with this core (especially minus Deng).
I bet if they did tank the commish would even feel bad for them and give them the 2nd pick so they good get another hometown hero in Jabari Parker. Him and Rose together would be awesome for the people of Chicago and fans around the NBA. It isn't going to happen but you can always dream.
I am a Sixers fan and watching the games with my friends we often find ourselves routing for the Sixers to lose because they have been tanking this tank job. They aren't going to compete for anything outside of the right to get trounced by the Heat or Pacers in the 1st round. It would help develop the young guys confidence and playoff experience is always nice...but that still does no good without those Superstars to put you over the top.
The East is so piss weak right now the Bulls could finish 3th-6th, miss getting swept by the pacers and heat and could advance to the second round.....
It would take a lot of effort for the Bulls to miss the playoffs. They still have talent on the roster and they still play good defense usually. They don't have enough offensive firepower to get to the conference finals, but they still would need to get rid of several of their key players while getting no real talent back in return. Their start to the year has not been good, but they have the necessary talent to make the playoffs in the East.
If you want the Bulls to tank, you are pretty much accepting that the Derrick Rose-era is over. They could tank and still keep Rose, but they would be unlikely to build an immediate championship contender through tanking. Given that no matter how hard the management tries, Thibodeau and the players will likely keep the Bulls at least better than the five worst teams in the league. Yes, getting Jabari Parker would be great, but the Bulls just are not going to be able to destroy their team in time to get that bad. The only way tanking would likely work without trading Rose would be if Rose resigned with them in 2017, because it take more than two years to build a contender out of a tanking team.
As a Bucks fan, I'm hoping and praying that our incompetent owner Herb Kohl, who has always aimed towards being a moderately competitive team rather than tanking, doesn't mess up this opportunity to get a high pick.
The worst place to be in the NBA is mediocre. And mediocre is what the Bulls are without Rose. If you make the playoffs with this team now, you aren't going to get a player in the draft that's going to help you get over the top. Why not tank and get a high pick to help the future of the Bulls organization. It just doesn't make sense for teams to constantly be a secound round play off team year after year and be okay with it. I've said it for a long time now, being at the top or the bottom of the NBA is the best place to be if you manage it correctly. There's room for improvement. But in the middle there is not.
Not true. It is probably the worst place to be, sure. But as far as saying they can't improve? No. That's why we have free agency. A middling team can still make moves to improve. The Heat are a perfect example of that. The Pacers as well. Sure they drafted Hibbert and George, but they also signed David West to help put them over the top.
I don't even see how this is debatable. The Bulls should be tanking without question.
The NBA should consider a point system to help decide the draft. Each player should get a point value say 50 to 100 like they get in video games and the total point value of the team should give a team a predicted win total. Teams that exceeded the total means players performed well, were coached well and the team spent their money well. They deserve a better chance of getting the draft pick. It would work well with small market teams with limited budgets but still have to perform for best chance of a high draft pick. Big market teams who get their multiple stars would have slight chances for the draft because of their point value would predict a win total too hard to obtain. ie Miami should go 77 - 5 per team point total. How it works: Each player gets an overall value adjusted from previous year. Current values to be assigned to kick things off. The players drafted would get beginning value based on the number picked adn would be reassigned point value the next season. Then win/loss totals can be predicted with calculations of the next seasons schedule.
So tanking to the absolute bottom gets the team a 35.7 percent chance of having the 4th pick and a 17.8 percent chance of getting the 3rd pick. Marcus Smart is an NBA player, but you want to dump multiple established NBA players (guys who have made All-Star teams) to get him? Or Dante Exum who isn't playing college or pro ball anywhere right now? And you want to collect picks in the teens and twenties? How good do you think Montrezl Harrell, Doug McDermott, Mitch McGary, James Young, the Harrisons, Wayne Selden, WCS, Alex Poythress, Jerami Grant, Sam Dekker, and James McAdoo are?
You don't give up proven NBA players to get guys who you at best hope can become an NBA player.
What I am suggesting they give up:
Deng: FA at the end of the season
Boozer: Will be amnestied before next season
Gibson: Severely overpaid.
I have no interest in getting rid of Noah or Butler. Here is the thing...you can't just bring the same team back that fails every year. Ever year the Bulls get hurt, and the one year they didn't, they still couldn't beat Miami. They were too cheap to resign Asik, too cheap to resign Robinson, and their bench now is bad. They weren't going to win the title with Derrick Rose playing this year either.
Yes, I would rather have a shot at a top 5 pick, a mid and late round pick to build on going forward over watching Deng and Boozer carry thet eam to 42 wins before leaving.
I want a piece of the lottery, that is what I want. Trading FAs to be and amnesty candidates isn't hurting your team's long term future. And in the short term, the Bulls' championship window has closed.
The Cavs need to tank. There is no point in trying to get to the playoffs and hope to steal a game from the heat or pacers. But even if they do get a top 5 pick, can Chris Grant possibly screw up another pick?
It won't work for the Bulls there coach won't tank and the players won't either ... so you blow up the team for a college freshman who may or may not pan out to be a superstar ... if he does then you got 1 superstar on a team full of scrubs ... if he doesn't then your stuck tanking for the next few years .... a lot of people think you just tank and then you become a contender but it takes more then just drafting + tanking to build a contender ...
Again, for those of you missing the point thinking I am telling players to miss shots on purpose or not coach...I specifically said the contrary.
I mean tank as in: Trade away expiring contracts, overpaid players, and don't overplay your remaining good players.
If the Bulls were to get rid of Deng and Boozer, they wouldn't be very talented at all, specifically with Butler out. That team could try all they want, they wouldn't be any good.
WE WANT PARKER!!!!!!! BET THE FARM!!!!! THROW IN THE TOWEL!!!!!!!! START JEFF'S LITTLE BROTHER!!!!!!!
WE WANT PARKER!!!!!!! BET THE FARM!!!!! THROW IN THE TOWEL!!!!!!!! START JEFF'S LITTLE BROTHER!!!!!!!
I think someone posted an article a few weeks back. It was an interview to an anonymous GM who pretty much said: "Everyone knows we're tanking... but we never tell either coach or players", which is reasonable. As a GM who cares for the spectators, you want them to give 110% everyday even if the team is not good enough for contending.
The Bulls simply can't go from elite to bottom of the barrel in a few weeks notice. Be glad you got Rose with that 1.7% chance, he will heal, focus on the later round draft picks that will complement Rose next year so he doesn't have to kill himself on offense to make the team competitive.