This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar BasketBalAllan 13 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #24386
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    dmo21
    Participant

    I got bored the other day and school is out, and I saw the topic for worst starter in the league, so I decided to use statistics to figure out who is the worst starters at each posiition in two categories, Pts/Reb/Ast and Efficiency. Take in mind  these stats do not take in defense, leadership, roles and other attributes. These are just stats.

    For Pts/Reb/Ast, the worst starters are:

    Pg- Arroyo, Fisher

    Sg- Bogans, Henry

    Sf- Artest, Moon

    Pf- S.Williams, McRoberts

    C- Ilgauskas, B.Wallace

    For Efficiency, it did not change much, here they are:

    Pg- Arroyo, Fisher

    Sg- Bogans, Henry

    Sf- Greene, Artest

    Pf- S.Williams, Hickson

    C- Krstic, Ilgauskas

    I was surprised to see Artest on both worst teams, even though he is not one of the primary guys on the Lakers, I thought he had better stats than that.

     

    Also, after doing all these stats I figured the average Pts/Reb/Ast and Efficiency for each posiition to figure out which were the strongest and weakest positions in the NBA. The results actually matched my hypothesis with PF being the best followed by PG, than SF, C, and the weakest position in the league is SG.

    With my averages for each position, I found the most average starter at each position. For Pts/Reb/Ast, the average team looks like this:

    Pg- Nelsom

    Sg- Redick

    Sf- Hill

    Pf- Green

    C- M.Gasol

     

    For Efficiency, the average team is:

    Pg- Harris

    Sg- B.Gordon

    Sf- D.Wright

    Pf- Humphries

    C- Camby/Hawes

    So, which average team do you think is better? Any surprises you see on the worst  or average teams? Do you think the position rankings are accurate?

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  • #466127
    AvatarAvatar
    NYK2010
    Participant

    Wow I knew Artest was having a bad season but not that bad.

    So many former or current Cavs on this list Ben Wallace, Big Z, Hickson.

    Surprised to Marc Gasol and Jeff Green on that list or is that Donte Greene.

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  • #466130
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    dmo21
    Participant

    Marc Gasol and Jeff Green are on the average team, not the worst team. But I thought they would both be a little better than average.

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  • #466131
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    DanEboy
    Participant

    Henry Bogans is Keith Bogans right?

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  • #466135
    AvatarAvatar
    dmo21
    Participant

    Each worst position has two players (the two worst). So yes Bogans is Keith Bogans, and the Henry stands for Xavier Henry, the starting SG for the Grizz. They are the 2 worst starters, statistically.

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  • #466145
    AvatarAvatar
    Mr. 19134
    Participant

    Nice research…Surprised Nelson made the average list but then I thought about his limited numbers and it didn’t surprise me but I still thought he was better then most.  Jeff Green has turned himself into a scoring forward instead of a facilitator so he doesn’t get many rebounds assists or steals and blocks no surprise.

    You should name the most efficient starters not stars that would be interesting. 

    The most intriguing moment of the piece was that shooting guard is the weakest position in the league and PF is the highest.  This is very interesting and makes me understand why somebody like Evan Turner went 2nd in the draft a 2 guard and players who could be pure PF’s like Cousins and Favors dropped below him.  Big men are getting better the days of stud 2 guards seems to be over in the NBA for right now all the great players are points guards or forwards.

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  • #466155
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    dmo21
    Participant

    I acutally thought shooting guard or center were going to be the worst, because when looking at all star games, you only have Kobe and Wade as sure fire all stars, and the next in line are good to mediocre.

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  • #466156
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    DanEboy
    Participant

    I should have read it more closely…….

    Yeah, I agree, nice research.

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  • #466159
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    dmo21
    Participant

    The best team for Pts/Reb/Ast is:

    Pg- Rose

    Sg- Bryant

    Sf- James

    Pf- Love

    C- Stoudemire

    The best team for Efficiency is a little different and looks like this:

    Pg- Paul/Williams

    Sg- Wade

    Sf- James

    Pf- Love

    C- P.Gasol

    So top 2 MVP’s Love and Lebron? lol.

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  • #466181
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    McWinning
    Participant

    I still dont get why the Heat dont start Chalmers now.

    Unless they want him as a spark off the bench.

    Arroya doesnt really do anything and hes a liability on defense,

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    • #466186
      AvatarAvatar
      Fritz
      Participant

      Like the data you collected, It would be interesting if you did an evaluation of teams this way, like if you found for each team what position each of their players in their starting line up would have, heres just a made up example for the bulls

      Pts/Reb/Ast

      Rose-1

      Bogans-29

      Deng-9

      Boozer-8

      Noah-9

      Average rank=11.9 (just an example not their actualy rank)

      Then average their numbers and rank teams based on who has the lowest average number, you could also do this and include like their best 8 players to include the bench, wouldnt work past that though because guys like Brian Scalibrine shouldnt bring down a teams average if they dont play significant minutes.

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  • #466200
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    dmo21
    Participant

    I can do that lol. It is already set up on a spread sheet. I’ll post it up later tonight after i figure it all out. Thanks for the great idea!

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  • #466230
    AvatarAvatar
    dmo21
    Participant

    These are the team rankings based on the rankings of each starter in their respective position realted to the statistic of Pts/Reb/Ast. Average player ranking and individual positional ranking will be in brackets.

    1) Golden State(10.2): Curry(8), Ellis(2), D.Wright(13), Lee(9), Biedrins(19)

    1) New York(10.2): Felton(5), Fields(18), Chandler(7), Gallinari(20), Stoudemire(1)

    3) Chicago(10.6): Rose(1), Bogans(30), Deng(10), Boozer(6), Noah(6)

    4) Boston(11.6): Rondo(7), Allen(11), Pierce(9), Garnett(14), O’Neal(17)

    5) Memphis(13): Conley(16), Henry(28), Gay(4), Randolph(4), M.Gasol(13)

    5) Portland(13): Miller(18), Matthews(10), Roy(14), Aldridge(7), Camby(16)

    7) Utah(13.4): D.Williams(2), Bell(27), Kirilenk(19), Millsap(11), Jefferson(8)

    8) Lakers(14.2): Fisher(29), Bryant(1), Artest(30), Odom(8), P.Gasol(3)

    8) Orlando(14.2): Nelson(15), Redick(14), J.Richardson(12), Turkoglu(28), Howard(2)

    10) Atlanta(14.6): Bibby(28), J.Johnson(7), M.Williams(22), J.Smith(12), Horford(4)

    10) Houston(14.6): Brooks(18), Martin(5), Battier(23), Scola(5), Hayes(22)

    10) San Antonio(14.6): Parker(10), Ginobili(6), R.Jefferson(18), Duncan(15), Blair(24)

    10) New Orleans(14.6): Paul(6), Bellinelli(22), Ariza(20), West(10), Okafor(15)

    14) Oklahoma City(14.8): Westbrook(2), Sefolosha(26), Durant(2), Green(17), Krstic(27)

    15) Miami(15.2): Arroyo(30), Wade(3), James(1), Bosh(12), Ilgauskas(30)

    16) Minnesota(16): Ridnour(27), Johnson(25), Beasley(6), Love(1), Milicic(21)

    17) Clippers(16.2): Davis(26), Gordon(4), Gomes(26), Griffin(2), Jordan(23)

    18) Indiana(16.6): Collison(25), Dunleavy(15), Granger(4), McRoberts(29), Hibbert(10)

    19) Phoenix(16.8): Nash(4), Carter(13), Hill(15), Frye(24), Lopez(28)

    20) Denver(17): Billups(22), Afflalo(19), Anthony(3), S.Williams(30), Nene(11)

    20) Washington(17): Wall(9), Hinrich(16), Thornton(24), Blatche(16), McGee(20)

    22) Charlotte(17.4): Augustin(23), Jackson(9), Wallace(8), Diaw(21), Mohammed(26)

    22) Milwaukee(17.4): Jennings(11), Salmons(17), CDR(27), Ilyasova(25), Bogut(7)

    24) Sacramento(17.8): Udrih(21), Evans(7), Greene(28), Landry(21), Cousins(12)

    24) New Jersy(17.8): Harris(12), Morrow(20), Outlaw(25), Humphries(23), Lopez(9)

    24) Toronto(17.8): Calderon(16), DeRozan(20), Weems(21), Johnson(27), Bargnani(5)

    27) Dallas(18): Kidd(24), Stevenson(28), Butler(17), Nowitzki(3), Chandler(18)

    27) Detroit(18): Stuckey(14), Gordon(12), Prince(16), Villanueva(19), B.Wallace(29)

    29) Philadelphia(19.4): Holiday(20), Meeks(24), Iguodala(10), Brand(18), Hawes(25)

    30) Cleveland(21): M.Williams(13), Parker(23), Moon(29), Hickson(26), Varejao(14)

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  • #466258
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    the lake show

    That’s wild. this really proves how stats aren’t everything. look at Dallas

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  • #466268
    AvatarAvatar
    BasketBalAllan
    Participant

    or just that pts/reb/ast are not everything…

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