Sorry Guys, But I'm Not Sold On Ben McLemore As An Elite Level Shooting Guard Prospect
Sorry Guys, But I'm Not Sold On Ben McLemore As An Elite Level Shooting Guard Prospect. I actually think that Jeremy Lamb, Dion Waiters, Terrence Ross, Alec Burks, Lance Stephenson, And Shabazz Muhammad are better players, better prospects, and ultimately more skilled than Ben McLemore
Qualities That I Think An Elite Level Shooting Guard Should Posess
1. Be hard to defend and able to score in a variety ways ( example: be a high level shooter, be a excellent finisher around the rim, have a reliable mid-range game, be a excellent isolation scorer, be a reliable post-up scoring threat, and have good catch-and-shoot skills off screens and pin-downs, etc)
2. Be able to dribble the ball at a high level and be a efficient decision maker when handling the ball in pick & roll situations
3. Be able to handle the ball in ways that allows you to create your shot off the dribble at a high level against tough defense when needed
4. Be a good ball handler and passer who can create offensive opportunities for others at a high level, make those around you better, and relieve pressure on the point guard by being able to share ball handling, playmaking, and decision making duties when needed
5. Be a good open-court player who can utilize good passing, ball-handling, shooting, and finishing skills
6. Be a high level shot creator for others and passer who can find the open man on drives, on the break, and against double teams
7. And ultimately have great perimeter skills, excellent offensive footwork, great shot making & shot creating skills, and the ability to the read the defense in ways that allows you to be an efficient decision maker and dynamic scorer
Example Of An Elite Level Shooting Guard:
Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Penny Hardaway, Dwayne Wade, Mitch Richmond, James Harden, Tracy Mcgrady, Vince Carter,etc
Those are the standards that I embrace when it comes to judging a player's ability to be an elite level shooting guard prospect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vefSacsik ( Penny Hardaway Playing Shooting Guard In The Playoffs )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTqK7Z8fejQ ( Tracy McGrady )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-imbK9tC5bY ( Vince Carter )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VovlaSMsbGY ( Dwayne Wade )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC99ji34hNg ( James Harden )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpzQiERt8I ( Kobe Bryant )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6BoEG4qf14 ( Micheal Jordan )
1. He is an excellent shooter..He's a great finisher around the rim. He only missed 1 shot close to the rim tonight and that was because he got fouled and it wasn't called. Btw on that missed shot he utilized his crossover to get into the paint. He has an reliable mid range..He hit a few in the OSU game and other games during the season. His isolation game does need work but his handle has improved and he attacked off the bounce a few times successfully tonight.
2. His handle is coming along..He's not gonna do too much ball handling in PNR situations..Elijah Johnson will do that.
3. Once again..His handle is improving he had a great crossover on Babb when a pick came and drained a NBA three pointer.
4. Goes back to point 2 & 3
5. He's a very good passer on the break and probably is KU's most unselfish player.
6. See points 2 & 3..His handle needs some more work but it's coming around
7. It sounds like you're not sold on him because he doesn't have a Kobe array of skills & counter moves at 20 years old. He just started playing on the wing like 3 years ago. It will come with time. It just sounds like since he doesn't have an Allen Iverson handle you don't consider him an elite shooting guard prospect which he is.
A GM will get fired if they draft ben as a number 1 pick He's not a franchise changing shooting guard. I don't even think he's better than Bradley Beal. The young man just got too many holes in his game. The Truth is that Ben is a good, but not great prospect.
But this is also the same website that compared Micheal Jordan to Deshawn Stevenson. Aran Smith you are a funny dude!!!!!!!!!!!
My post was based on setting your standards high when rating a shooting guard prospect. And as you can see the standards I use to judge a shooting guard prospect is pretty high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben or Shabazz won't go number 1. It's early January a lot of things will change. The GM will probably go with size & potential and draft Noel number 1.
"The GM will probably go with size & potential and draft Noel number 1."
I just wanna go on record and say Ben Mc is not worthy of a #1 pick.
I'm not either, where were you earlier when I was on every B Mac post trying to curb their enthusiasm. He just has too many holes in his game right now and Bill Self is the master at hiding a player's deficiencies.
My fault I was eating dinner and watching replays of NBA games on my DVR.
Aran Smith must be going crazy to rank Ben as the Number 1 prospect. He's good, but not that good.
He's an average ball handler, average isolation scoring threat, and has not proven that he can be a high level decision maker, ball handler, or passer within pick and roll situations. Which is very important in the NBA
He is an average ball-handler, but he has a lightning quick first step. Given his shooting ability, opposing defenders will HAVE to play him close which will give him the opportunity to blow by them.
I also think he's a very good decision maker, passer and has shown promise in PnR situation. His PnRs have come off of curls, but it's basically the same action.
Terrence Ross is not a Magician with the ball. However, he knows how to play by using two three dribbles and moving without the ball al la Riggie Miller, Rip Hamilton and even Ray Allen who can dribble, but has that play style. Your only taking one aspect of being a great SG. How about shooting, playing defense and basketball IQ ? Which has and is great at.
This kid is the real deal. Just because he doesn't dribble the rock the whole shot clock like the Elite NBA guys you listed doesn't mean he isn't elite. I love the Ray Allen comparison because he plays like a guy that u know is one of the best players on the court but doesn't press the issue unless its needed. He's going to get criticized for not being more dominant so what. Plays pretty much how Durant plays. So would u say Durant isn't elite because he doesn't have "elite" break up down iso crossovers either, nor is he great at making his teammates better but that has improved in the coming years especially this year. I didn't think so! He's about as efficient as Durant too. 15.6 ppg on 48%fg 40% 3pt 88%ft.
His potential is greater than everyone of the other guys you mentioned besides Muhammad. The guy is only 20 with a great shot, good enough ball handling skills that are improving, he's very efficient, as seen today he showed some toughness and a little clutch abilities. He plays on a Kansas teams that gets the concept of team basketball so he doesn't need to be a star. This guy is the total Package.
Um,.Durant does have a killer crossover and was a better ball handler in high school then B Mac is today.
And no B Mac is not the total package because he cant create offense with the ball. He gets all his points from running the floor, kickouts and lobs at the rim. When Kansas almost got upset by Temple at home even the announcers mentioned how B Mac isnt the type of go to guy KU can give the ball too and make something happen.
Look harder. Every possible #1 overall candidate in this draft has a bunch of holes in his game.
Is there REALLY that much separation among the top 4 or 5?
If he goes #1, I wouldn't knock it.
Siggy I respect your insight and judgement, but it would be very unfair to ben's abilities to put those type of expectations on him that come from being a Number one pick. He just does not posess the high level talent and skills that comes with being a franchise changing shooting guard or Number one Pick in a draft. He would be doomed to fail. He would simply be a good first round pick in past draft years. Noel, Shabazz, and Zeller should be the only players getting looks for the top overall pick in this year's draft. Based on what I've seen in college basketball this year
Now explain what those guys have over Ben that makes them more viable candidates for the #1 slot.
I could compare them to ideal players and prototypes at their respective positions to make them not look the part as well.
1. Shabazz Muhammad - I've compared him to isiah rider and bonzi wells in the past and I think that Shabazz has the potential to be an elite scorer from the shooting guard position. He just has the natural ability to score from anywhere and in many ways
2. Nerlens Noel - You just cannot ignor his elite athleticism, size, length, motor, quick reflexes, timing and anticipation skills as a shot blocker. He has the chance to be an elite defender and shot blocker for many years in the NBA. He also shows the potential to be a decent to good scoring threat. I also love is demeanor. He's a confident, tough and tenacious defender. He also is a suprisingly good passer who has no trouble finding the open man
3. Cody Zeller - Highly skilled with a high basketball I.Q. and great feel for how to play the game of basketball. Consistent, dependible, reliable, and has the habit of making the right play at the right time. He's just a very efficient basketball player who plays the game how it should be played.
Those are just short scouting report blurbs. Those don't give any of them a leg up over Ben for the #1 overall pick.
I could do the same thing that you just did and say "This is my scouting report on Ben. See, that's why he deserves to be the #1 pick more."
You scrutinized Ben's game, comparing him to the ideal player at his position, but you're not doing the same with the others.
How's 'Bazz ball-handling, first step, ability to create his own shot from the perimeter, his playmaking, PnR ability, lateral quicks for the SG position?
How's Noel's entire offensive game, physical strength, touch, bball IQ, post defense?
How's Cody's length, defensive potential, rebounding rate, ability to create his own offense, shot-blocking?
I agree however that he's not likely to be the Top pick. But he's one of the best candidates in the weak draft.Who else is there besides Zeller who isn't as a complete players as it may seem. Solid rebounder, solid defender, good around the basket but isnt dominate. Noel is to Raw offensively, and a good to very good defensive force not great. Shabazz is in the same boat as McLemore good scorer but no real iso moves, left hand dominant, not as great of a shooter. It early January nothing is set in stone yet.
McLemore is "Hot" right now and is playing the best ball of the guys he equal too talent wise so his stock is rising. Thats what happens when there isnt a guy or guys who everyone knows is head and shoulders above everyone else. There's alot of season left and the NBA combine, but the way its going McLemore is setting him self up for a definite lock in the Top 5 if not Top 3. Who knows maybe the first SG in 40 yrs to go number one. We just have to wait and see because time will tell.
I'm also not sold on McLemore. If Washington gets the first pick, I'm sure they'll pass. I don't think he has the handle to be an elite 2 guard. Also when's the last time an All-Star came out of Kansas, '99? Bill Self makes people look better than they actually are. He will be a 21 year old freshman next month, who has already been arrested. I think he can be a good player in the league, but elite? No.
Wow im stunned the B Mac hype machine has even gotten Siggy who usually adds sense to the debate.
Fact is that its much easier to learn how to shoot in the league then it is to dribble. A player rarely ever comes into the league with a weak handle and develops it into an iso threat. Mainly because in game action you can get shots but a coach isnt gonna risk you racking up turnovers trying to hone ur ball handling in game.
And if Self wont let Mac handle the ball in college I doubt a pro coach will.
Facts, B Mac gets all his points by running the floor, cutting backdoor, and on open kick out 3s. He projects as a 3 and D player in the league as his own coach compared him to Brandon Rush.
Fact, B Mac has attempted more 3s then foul shots this year. This is because he cant usuallly get all the way to thr rim and when he does he doesnt know how to draw contact.
Im not trying to bash on this kid I like him but when u start talking about him as the first pick well....like I said hes a very good SG prospect in the same grade as guys like Lamb and Ross.
Umm, I've been high on McLemore since before the season started.
I have him currently @ #4 and that won't change after tonight's game. I also have Shabazz #1 overall and that won't change after tonight either. I just recognize that Ben is really good, he's exceeded lofty expectations and I can understand why someone would have him #1 overall. There is no consensus #1. There isn't even a consensus #2 or 3. Because of that, the #1 overall pick could come down to preference in type of player.
You have no reason to argue anymore, because your completely correct in your judgement and perception of the young man's skill level. Not hatin on ben though. I hope he improves his overall skill level and develop's into a great pro.
The more i see him play,the more he reminds me of Byron Scott...Byron could've been a 25 point scorer and possibly a multiple all star,if he was playing on another team......And like McLemore,people were saying Scott couldnt handle the ball,but some how after some games,he would have 3 or 4 assists..Becuz he made good desisions whenever he got the ball....
But what's the difference between B Mac and the must have Xavier Henry. Both same body type, same school, comparable stats, and almost the same strengths and same weaknesses. To top it off name one impact NBA player to come from Kansas U since Paul Pierce? I think in a draft that wasn't perceived as weak he would be drafted in the 14-25 range. Finally the NBA has serious talent in the Pg and Pf position, while the Sf, Sg and C positions seem to be a little slim in elite talent so it seems NBA evaluators tend to overvalue players in those positions. That's why serviceable NBA Pg and Pf tend to slip in drafts as players in positions of need like B Mac rise.
Comparable stats? Henry averaged about 13 points per game.
And as for your argument about the number of impact players to come from Kansas, I don't see how that's relevant. By that logic, San Antonio made a big mistake in drafting HOF David Robinson from Navy, as there'd never been an impact player from the school before him.
i love his 6-6 from three tonight i love he is a great athlete, but still he is a pretty skinny 200-less pounds SG who will turn 22 by mid of his rookie year, give me Shabazz all day
I got Shabazz at number 1 and a solid pick at that position. Given his work ethic and known for being a gym rat, he will improve on all the holes in his game, without a doubt. As far as McLemore goes, he is going to be a absolute STUD. People tend to delve too deep into the tiny little details. How about this, does he pass the eye test? I've watched McLemore play several times, and he looks like a future NBA All-Star to me. His stroke is the most fluid and effortless stroke I've seen coming third to Ray Allen and Kevin Durant. He's always looking to learn, and that to me is one of the most important things in any prospect.
McLemore really is a complete offensive player, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. He needs to realize he can hang 20+ points a night, even in KU's swing the ball around the perimiter/inside outside style of play. He's a lot more than a spot off shooter and right before overtime he took the ball to the bucket and nailed a long two off the dribble.
If he can realize that, he can be a 20+ ppg wing in the NBA, he needs to realize he can take over when he wants to. If he doesn't, he has the size and tools to be a Desmond Mason style athletic two guard who can hit a deep jumper and defend the perimter well without taking over a game.
I don't care that people aren't sold on him, there is a mob mentality on this website, that if you don't bow down to a popular player you get thrown under the bus. I made a comment that didn't look favorable about Shabazz and posters were trying to put words in my moulth and point on grammar errors. I've not been sold on many popular players and have gotten butchered for it, even if I ended being right, so I'm not going to add fuel to the fire here, but McLemore brings a lot to the table.
I can't wait to bring this topic up to you next year when he's killin it as a rook, that is if you haven't already been kicked off this site
Damn bro, It's just an opinion. You can either agree or disagree based on your preference. And I personally from what I've seen consider ben to be a good, but not great shooting guard prospect
Well I just started watching play after all the hype and I agree that he's definitely not #1 draft choice material now. This dude is really raw. The best way I can describe him is that he has no identity at this point. He kind of does everything well, so you can see the potential in him but it's hard to evaluate at this point if he'll actually take his gifts to the next level.
Can you expand on that? Because it looks to me that he has an identity and that's as an athletic shooter at the very least.
i would not personally take ben #1, but i really like his game a lot. is he complete, no but he is very well rounded in a lot of areas and i beleive he has a lot of potential and will get much much better under a great nba coach. i agree there is no clear cut number 1 at this moment, but i beleive of all the clear choices for that spot that shabazz will be the guy at years end. i think out of all the number 1 choices he has the least amount of flaws and best potential to be great, but i love ben too and whoever gets him is getting a real future stud. look at all the SG that were not number 1 that were great and are great.
By the way Mitch Richmond is not a great ball handler. He was a really good shooter, defender and strong.
He was a crafty ball handler who would only dribble with a purpose. For the purpose of getting to spots on the court where he could be the most effective as a scorer and shooter. Ray allen was also the same type of ball-handler
He is a average ball handler. He was a smart and decisive player that got a lot of his points from moving without the ball. Defenders had to play him honest because how good of shooter he is. So, he was able to get by defenders like I said about Terrence Ross before. You have him in your elite Sg list because his handles, but his ball handling wasn't the reason why he was great. C'mon on now.
Being a great ballhandler is not about having amazing dribble moves like hot sauce. It's about being able to handle the ball in ways that allows you to be an efficient shot creator for yourself and others.
For example, Some of the most basic ball handlers were great point guards like Mark Jackson, Magic Johnson, and John Stockton
Examples Of Dribbling With A Purpose - A Good Ball Handler Is Able To:
1. Move the ball out of a congested area when passing to a teammate is impossible
2. Advance the ball up the court against high level defensive pressure
3. Consistenly penetrate the defense for a drive to the basket
4. Utilize advanced dribble skills/moves to create a offensive opportunity for themselves when needed against tough defense
5. Use the dribble to move to an area that will create a better passing angle
6. Use dribble penetration to draw a defender to you for the purpose of creating a opening to pass the ball to your teammate for a scoring opportunity
So, by whereever you get your quotes from Ben McLemore is a good ball handler too then by the definition because he is doing the majority of the same things Mitch did in these videos as well. Sorry, I posted a vid from the forbidden site. I saw it on Youtube.
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was nice knowing you
Aran Smith please forgive him for what he has done. The man was probably on drugs or going crazy when he decided to post the forbidden site on nbadraft.net
I'm So Scared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guys say your goodbye's, because this will probably be the last time we will ever hear from For_Never_Ever
Damn bro, I liked you too. I enjoyed reading what you had to say on certain basketball topics
I actually need to start chilling out or get off social media in general because once I get on it. I spend way too much of my time on it. It is my baddest habit right now.
16.9 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.1 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 51% FG, 46% 3PT, 89% FT.
Very solid numbers, particularly the efficiency. Shooting above 50% and 45% threes along with a near 90% FT percentage is awesome, especially when you combine it with Ben's athleticism and size.
Them shooting %'s will come back down to earth once teams realize you can't leave this guy completely open on the perimeter and not expect him to knock down wide open 3 pointers like last night against Iowa St.
So you're basically implying that teams don't do advance scouting or watch tape?
His ability to shoot hasn't come out of nowhere.
Also, he's not just standing around waiting for the ball either.
Eh.... Okay, so at risk of just getting negged out of the forum, what makes Ben McLemore better than Archie Goodwin?
Better shooting, better decision making, knows how to play off the ball, more disciplined defender, better at making simple basketball plays. The gap b/t the 2 isn't that big though, but right now I'd take Mac.