And apparently, Raymond Felton has been channeling his inner Eddy Curry. As if the Knicks situation wasn't getting any worse. I'm js...
Its been said Felton has struggled with his weight in the past, but as an NBA player that is ludicrous...or should I say delicious?
Damn. I hope the Knicks staff gets at him heavliy about this. I also hope he's not depressed or anything. He had a terrible season in Portland, but then again, you don't know what the man went through off the court.
Mr. Felton, please don't end up like Eddy.
No pun intended when I said, "heavily".
No Wonder the Knicks didnt mind letting Lingo,even though he could've provided them with sales..But apparently The Knicks have a marketing campaign with Bars & Eateries.....
1 Point guard loves to DRINK
And the other 1 Loves to EAT
if that is true, James dolan made even more great moves that have come the define the 21st century knicks like eddy curry being worth 10 million a year for 6 years, then when you get a guy (jeremy Lin) you can actually market and he can play at a decent level, and he doesnt want too many endorsements because he wants to work on his game who costs $8 million and wants to be in new york. You say no to him and instead you pay 5 million a year to get a 39 year old point guard and a point gaurd who has weight issues. At least Kahn stuck with the right point guard after he drafted 5 in one draft.
Ray does need to get himself in shape or he will be out of the league after this contract but those who act like Jeremy Lin is a proven comodity are retarded. He has a 25 game body of work essentially and we have yet to see him do well in a system other than D'Antoni's PG friendly system. Even in that system he was a TO machine and while he made some impressive/extravagant plays he also cost them some games they could have won. Lin is a combo guard off the bench as a 6th man he is not a PG. While Houston will make enough off his marketability alone to pay for Lin and then some , I can promise you he won't translate to what they are paying him on the court unless they decide to hire D'Antoni.
The book is out on Lin and a lot of that mess he did last year will not be as easy because teams know it's coming.
I found this on grantland.com(bill simmons site where random writers write things and offer pretty decent reading material)
look at the stats you people who are saying Lin is terrible and the knicks are better with a fat point guard and an old point gaurd. Lin is an average starter and who sells tickets and merchandise. Are you going to call felton a system point gaurd because his best season was with d antoni. I think you are not looking at what is happening on the court.
this is from there, it was written by Jay Kang,
Are the Knicks a better basketball team without Jeremy Lin?
Last year, there were 259 NBA players who used more than 300 possessions. Of those players, Jason Kidd ranked 242nd in points per possession. That was four spots higher than his new teammate Raymond Felton. Lin ranked 192nd.
Jeremy Lin had a well-publicized turnover problem last season that became a talking point for every talking head who wanted to point out something bad about a player who had saved a dismal season, ignited interest in the NBA among millions of people worldwide, and dropped 38 against Kobe Bryant in the Garden. It's true — of those same 259 players who used over 300 possessions, Lin ranked 252nd with a 21.4 turnover percentage. Raymond Felton ranked 244th at 19.6 percent. Jason Kidd? 257th at 24.2 percent. Guess who was 256th? Rajon Rondo. 258th? Steve Nash.
Maybe it's time to stop worrying about turnover numbers and examine whether or not those turnovers came within an aggressive system that created a lot of open shots, and, more important, generated wins for the team.
Did the Knicks win with Jeremy Lin as their point guard? Have the people of Portland ever encountered a person they hated more than Raymond Felton? Is Jason Kidd old and terrible? Between Lin, Felton, and Kidd, whom do you trust to adjust to playing with Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire, a.k.a. FLAT (&$#%#&@!-up Leg And Talented), for a full season? What, exactly, am I missing here?
Who cares what the fans of that cursed franchise in Portland think. You , Kang , and Simmons stat for assists is the most irrelevant assist stat ever btw.
Lin 1.7 assist to turnover ratio last season
Felton 2.3 assist to turnover ratio last season along with a 2.6 assist to turnover ratio for his career
Nash 2.9 assist to turnover ratio last year along with a 3.0 assist to turnover ratio for his career
Rondo 3.2 assist to turnover ratio last year with a 3.0 assist to turnover ratio for his career
Kidd 2.9 assist to turnover atio last season with a 3.0 assist to turnover ratio for his career.
Those PG's you and Simmons claim are more turnover prone than Lin have more turnovers but average more assists and their efficiency at passing is far superior to Lin. Good try though you get an "A" for effort but a "F" for actual substance. Bill Simmons and Jay Kang don't know as much about basketball as they think either.
Anyone with half a brain and any basketball knowledge knows that the turnover efficiency stat holds no water to assist to turnover ratio. Anybody can come up with a stat to make a certain player seem better than others. If anyone on this board believes Lin at this point is a better passer than Nash , Kidd , Rondo , or Felton are delusional and should not be alllowed to post because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the game of basketball. Those 5 that negged me on my point I would love to hear your rebuttal , please enlighten me.
Didn't neg you .... Just my take first , Felton has problems with his weight... Why a pro athlete gives not a crap about his weight I will never understand. People in Favors of Lin see how big a money maker he can be. Will 1,500,000,000 plus East Asians be fans of a 39 year old Kidd or a humongously fat Felton over Lin, I live in Asia and you can not imagine how big a cult like following Lin has here.
Noskin off my nose but. 39 year old recent arrest for. Drunk driving (beyond foolish) and fat slob over Lin make zero sense.
Look I admit bias as a kid I loved Knicks as Fraiser was from Atlanta but consider Dolan worst owner ever.
I stated in my initial post that Lin was a no duh money maker wherever he went and to me he makes more sense in Houston from that standpoint due to the large Chinese fanbase from the Yao days. Hell even the guys that played with Yao on those Rockets teams got endorsements in China just for being Yao's teammate.
From an on the court production standpoint Lin is not worth the money and those who act like his 25 game run means he is worth it are lacking mentally. I will go out on a limb and predict the Knicks will be a better team than the Rockets and I don't even think the Rockets will make the playoffs. We just had a guy argue in favor of Lin over Nash and Rondo lets not lose touch with the truth that Lin is a combo guard who has no left hand and is a TO machine for a PG. If he is a 6th man his TO issues are not as glaring but Lin and the Rockets fancy himself as a PG and I just don't see it. Plus the 85% thing where he refused to comeback to the playoffs says everything I need to know about Lin. I understand he wanted his money but I think Lin even knows he can't duplicate what he did over 25 games again. Time will tell but all these over reacting Lin supporters won't admit it when he proves to be nothing more than Bob Sura.
Also the Knicks got Kidd/Felton on the cheap and it allows them to pursue other pieces for their team. Lins matched offer sheet would of put the Knicks in a bad payroll situation with no flexibility to build or add guys the next 3 years. Jeremy Lin was not going to make the Knicks a contender. Also Lin makes the comment that "he preffered the Knicks" , load of garbage! If he preferred the Knicks he would of not allowed his agent to negotiate a deal that made it a bad idea/stupid for the Knicks because they would have no payroll flexibility. Lin is the shiny new flavor of the month and he will be similar to Tebow in the NFL. He is polarizing but on the court it won't ever translate to anything significant and last time I checked New Yorkers want winning and contending for championships. Lin and his contract would of put them in a position to not be able to build the team at all unless they made trades. James Dolan has made more mistakes in his time than any other owner(Curry , Isaiah , and so on)but he got it right this time by letting Lin walk.
Not saying it's likely going to happen but they have a shot after this season and that is Chris Paul will be on the market and if the Knicks land him Jeremy Lin is skid mark memory for sure.
just to clarify things, how would the knicks be able to add chris paul when three players will be taking up most of the cap space already for this upcomming season and the next two after. three players without matching Lin's deal would be 53 M, 57 M and 61 M. those three contracts alone takes away their ability to add a player in his prime to make a signnificant contributer. add in Kidd's contract thats on the cheap as you mentioned and they will have 60 Mill looked up on 4 players when Chris Paul hits free agency. the knicks already have no salary flexibility to build or add guys the next 3 years(this up-comming one included) Lin might not make them contenders, but nobody that they can add as vet minimum would either.
with or without Lin, the knicks wouldnt be in a good position to build the team at all unless they make trades. letting lin go for nothing takes away from the knicks since they loose a trade asset at the very least. and before you call his contract as untradebale, its much better than Amare's uninsured maxed one. Lin has two years that he will be making average NBA salary at 5 mill and have a 15 mill expiring contract afterwards.
i really dont mind the knicks not matching as much as other fans. but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that there are benefits into them passing since lin wouldnt have made things so much worse for the management since his deal would be as long as new york's top paid players anyway and they were already in luxuory teritorry wheather they matched it or not. not to mention that the his replacement is a guy who doesnt defend or play off the ball any better than lin. his outside shot might be better, but Felton is most effective with the ball in his hands, where it wont be since it'll be with melo. to think people were making that the reason why Lin shouldnt be brought back. exact same argument is applied to their new starting point guard.
Kidd retires , Smith is a 1 year deal I am pretty , sure and you trade felton who has a short term 6 mill a year front loaded contract that will come off the books in 2 years. Lin costing the team if I remember Ric Bucher correct 45 million dollars in year 3 due to the luxury tax was dumb plain and simple. Ric Bucher who knows what he is talking about agreed matching the Houston offer would of been stupid. Now if you want to say the Knicks should of not let the cat out of the bag by saying they were going to match before Lin signed Houstons inital offer sheet then fine. But once Houston upped the ante signing Lin was a bad idea. I don't try and create my own opinions of salary structures in the NBA I listen to guys who know what they are talking about like Ric Bucher and trust them. If you are going to be over and be hit by the luxury tax do it with Chris Paul not Jeremy Lin.
the knicks have no shot of signing Chris Paul outside for the some reason i cant comprehend, agree to a sign and trade that would return them Melo or Chandler. What i dont understand is that in plain sight that the knicks are already over the salary cap with 3 players next off-season. they have no chance of signing Chris Paul or any big name free agent in his prime due to the contracts of Melo, Amare and Tyson.
so you will be assuming that Kidd will retire and thus his contract wont be counted against the salary cap, you have to wait for a year since he last played if he's forced to retire medically if that is the scenario and saying that Felton will be easier to trade because his contract ends in 2 years, same time as Jeremy Lin's? meaning unless there will be teams willing to trade for Felton with an exception or just absorb his contract outright, then the knicks wont have any additional cap space compared to Lin's deal.
The reason why people agree that not matching Lin is a good idea is because it will cost the Knicks 43-45 million in year 3 alone. they then further say justify it by saying that Lin is not a good fit beside Melo or for their head coach. money wise, the Knicks would have profitted more than 50 million from Lin anyway. and the replacement they got for him was a player who needs the ball in his hands to be really effective and isnt a known great defender, same reasons why they say Lin isnt a good fit basketball wise with the knicks.
So you undervalue Felton and overvalue Lin , just say that.
im not undervaluing Felton. if you read all my posts, i dint say anything that would bring him down such as being fat, over eating, getting eddy curry or any of that. I simply said that for all the reasons critics have said on why Lin wouldnt be a good fit in NY with Woodson and Melo, it also applies to Felton. I stand by that. it's not like they signed Delonte West who is a supperior defender, outside shooter and off-the ball player than Lin.
The Knicks didnt go out and get a better fit. they signed a player who brings to the table simillar things than what Lin would have, but would have cost them less. I dint even say Lin is so much better than Felton. I simply disagreed with you when you said that the knicks will be able to sign other players such as Chris Paul since they passed on Lin. and looking at the facts, they cant. Too many highly paid players within the next 3 years. Three players taking all your salary cap space in the next three years. passing on Lin's deal wouldnt have made a difference on their ability to adding another high profile in his prime star player.
Lin and Felton are not the same fit for the Knicks at all. Felton will dribble the ball up the court give it to Carmelo in an iso situation then go stand in the corner or off to the side to be ready for a kick out jumper if Melo doesn't shoot.. Lin needs to have the ball in his hands to be effective and be initiating the offense. Obviously Mike Woodson feels Felton is a better fit for his offense but hey you know more than Mike Woodson right?
I wouldnt claim to know more about what Mike Woodson feels more than reported, but obviously you do. and i've been watching Felton play since his college days and you're making it sound like that Felton plays like Derek Fisher. Raymond Felton has always been most effective with the ball in his hands. the guy is a bulky athletic point guard, not an undersized two guard who favors to play off the ball and take catch and shoot oppurtunities more than slashing to the rim or playing pick n' roll.
Yea well I have watched him play pretty much every game in college and even played against him in HS when he played down in Latta. The guy can knock down the open 3 and if you can't realize Woodson plays to his best players in iso I don't know what else to tell you. Felton is bulky but athletic? I wouldn't say that with any conviction for sure when it comes to being athletic today. He is a solid athlete for a PG nothing special and he isn't as fast as he once was. You are also treating Felton like he is one of the go to guys still. His role is going to be completely different , just because he has been on mostly sh!t teams his whole NBA career doesn't mean he needs the ball in his hands. He had to have the ball in his hands most of his career because he was arguably the best or 2nd best offensive player on every team he has been on in the NBA until now and maybe the 2 months he played for Denver. Felton is now the 4th offensive option in NY and he is a good on the ball defender as long as he stops eating and gets in shape.
Felton in the NBA is a career 33% shooter. can he hit the open 3, yes. does he always, no. nobody always hits the open 3 and those that you expect to are mostly specialists and Felton isnt one. I do agree that Mike Woodson likes to go a lot of iso with his top players, thats why Bibby was a good fit for them when they first got him. Bibby is an excellent catch and shoot player and is more known for his shooting capability than anything else when he got older. Felton hasnt shown so far that thats his game. that thats a role he can excell in or a role he wants to play. Im not saying he has to be the go to player, im saying his game is best effective with the ball in his hands, the same way Lin's is.
so you're telling me that despite what Felton has shown for most of his career, thats not really how he plays? thats only how he played due to circumstance? isnt that a bit too much speculation? going against what a guy showed for most of his pro career to not be his actual game. and for the record, im not disputing what his role is going to be, i agree with what you said. im just saying that thats not what his role has been in his career, nor is it something people expect of him when he is to play his game. the knicks got a PG for a D'Antoni system to replace their PG who excelled in a D'Antoni system when they're not playing that way anymore.
I don't think that Kang was trying to say that Rondo and Nash are bad players; just that a TO problem is not indicative purely of a player's effectiveness. He was using those numbers to prove a point to people who try to claim that Lin wasn't effective in his time on the court last year. And right now, Lin is a superior player to Kidd or Felton. Kidd was once elite, but no longer is. And Felton is also in decline.
Raymond Pillsbury Doughboy Felton needs to put the big macs and twinkies down for a minute and get back into that 2009 Knick shape
So let me get this straight: The Knicks let go a 23 year old potential international superstar for a 40 year old drunk and a fat guy that has no interest in getting in shape?
That's James Dolan for you fellas.
Felton is only 28 and those who act like he wasn't a little bit heavy in 2010-2011 with the Knicks where he played his best are delusional. He is a middle of the row starter in the NBA if in shape. Ray has 3 months to get his big boned ass right!
^Don't get me wrong, I believe that in the right system Felton is a top 12 PG, he was practically an All-Star that one season in NY.
Ray Fel was even a little 'thick' when he was at NC so him being this big doesn't surprise me. However I believe and hope, for his sake, he drops that spare tire and gets down to busines because the Knicks are courting on him.
We All know Jeremy lin wasn't worth that contract or the 45 million dollar luxury tax the Knicks would have to play stop acting like it. Raymond Felton has 3 months to get right let him have a little fun, everyone was pretty much overweight and out of shape because of the lock out(Melo,Dirk,pierce,etc.).
Melo & Dirk didn't do too well last year did they?
Jeremy Lin may not be worth the 45mil luxury tax for the Knicks ON the court, but he's worth WAY more than that OFF the court. The Knicks were going to make well over 45million simply off fan-support by having Jeremy Lin on their roster. He's not only a player, but an economic asset and an ambassador to the Asian sports community.
I've read that as soon as the offer sheet deadline passed and the Knicks did not match, their franchise value fell about 30-50mil and even moreso in the future than if they would have kept him.
It's economics, not just sports -- and economically, the Knicks could have made MUCH more than 45mil with Lin.
Sad smh... This reminds me of Boris Diaw when he showed up with the Bobcats.
I hope Kidd is ready to play big minutes because Felton is going to get injured.
I hate when people already limit Lin and try to give props to lesser players who have never shown anywhere near his run. I am going to tell you guys this. I have yet to see a player have the run that Lin has for that many games and it was a fluke. There may have been some that had great games or a great week but not a great month. Knicks won the lottery and then they let someone rob them. They will probably never recover from this and it will take another 10 years before they ever has this type of excitement again as long as Dolan is owner.
Jason Kidd gets arrested..."Well, good thing we still have Raymond Felton..."
Jason Kidd gets arrested..."Well, good thing we still have Raymond Felton..."
I just don't understand how ANY NBA player ever gets out of shape! I know people with 9-5's and that work overtime who are in tip top shape, these guys get paid MILLIONS of dollars to hoop and take care of their body, no excuse for ANY NBA player to be out of shape ever off-season or season period, unless you are coming back from an injury.
The way he's looking he might be backing up Amare at power forward next season... SMH
I heard Little Debbie confiscated the photos.
In all honesty, this doesn't worry me. Felton has always been a guy that shows up to camp heavy, and gets in shape during training camp. Last season he wasn't able to do that because of the lockout. I hope he gets a little in shape before camp, but this doesn't alarm me too much.
Here's a little explanation for why Lin can both have a lower turnover percentage than Rondo and Nash, while having a much worse Assist to Turnover Ratio. First, the obvious one, he isn't as good as Rondo, Nash or Kidd and he has far far less experience. But there is another reason why Lin has so many turnovers. The Knicks basically turned to him and said, I need you to get me 10 assists, plus I need you to get me 20 points. Rondo, Nash, and Kidd are never asked to score 20 points night in and night out. Especially not Nash and Kidd at this stage.
PGs pick up most of the their turnovers on passes (and Lin obviously doesn't pass as accurately as either of these guys). But like any player, the pick up turnovers during the course of the game while dribbling. Everytime you drive to the hope you run the risk of a turnover. Lin was asked to drive and attack the hoop again and again and yes he got his pocket picked.
Of course Lin in his first year as a starter isn't as careful with the ball as these three hall of famers (well Rondo isn't there yet, but the potential is there). But he was also asked to do a ton of scoring that none of these guards are asked to do. Rondo's a 12 point per game guy. I'm not saying he should change, but not having to drop 20 makes it easier on him. On the Knicks team, Melo turns it over almost three times a game. It isn't because of bad passing it is because he has got the ball a lot. Remember the defense is always trying to steal the ball. Always. Anyone who has the ball in their hand is running a risk of a turnover. More time with it in your hand, more turnovers you will have.
Finally, during the two week Linsanity run when there was no Melo and no Amare. The Knicks total team turnovers were about average. Lin was picking up 5 of them, but he was basically doing everything for the team as he was scoring 25+ a games plus dishing 10 assists. So turnovers went down for the rest of the team.
And a 23-year old PG doesn't have to be better than Rondo, Nash or Kidd to be worth $8 million a year in today's NBA.
Some of you guys, who claim Lin isn't worth the money, are proving you don't understand this league or how professional contracts are negotiated. He's one of the most exciting personalities in the entire league who brings tremendous value and excitement to NY.
• Half the players in the NBA aren't worth what they're getting paid.
• A prime example is the vastly overpriced NY front court. Or what about the total cost of the 2 contracts for Kidd and Felton added up?
• Lin would only cost the Knicks $5 million per season for the next 2 years
• In year 3 of the contract, NY could drop Amare and/or Chandler and they wouldn't be over the cap so Lin's final year would be $14.5 million
• You can play Lin for one season and trade him if he doesn't live up to his potential.
• Finally, NBA teams change drastically over a 2-3 year time frame. Half the roster may not even be there by the final season of Lin's contract.
i hate fat guys!!!