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So Much for Undersized

The lake show2
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So Much for Undersized

Average Standing Reach / Wing Span by Position

Primary Position
Sample Size
Avg Height w/o Shoes
Average Weight
Average Wingspan
Average Standing Reach

PG
170
6' 0.52"
185
6' 4.7"
8' 0.5"

SG
168
6' 3.49"
202
6' 7.9"
8' 4.6"

SF
149
6' 6.09"
213
6' 10.4"
8' 8.1"

PF
259
6' 7.70"
235
7' 0.8"
8' 10.6"

C
138
6' 9.97"
252
7' 2.9"
9' 1.7"

Average Athletic Testing by Position

Primary Position
Sample Size
No Step Vert
Max Vert
Bench Press
Lane Agility
3/4 Court Sprint

PG
137
29.3
34.9
8.1
11.15
3.21

SG
139
29.6
34.9
10.6
11.31
3.23

SF
116
29.6
34.6
10.9
11.38
3.26

PF
225
28.4
32.8
13.0
11.70
3.31

C
110
26.6
30.5
11.7
12.14
3.43

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All#ixzz1CvN5PKmP
http://www.draftexpress.com


mikeyvthedon
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FINALLY!

Answers my question about wingspan. It was even longer than I thought! About 4-5 inches is average for these guys! In other words, Derrick Williams is pretty much average size for a PF, though his weight might be slightly below average. This also means Sullinger is about average, though with a lot more bulk and a slightly above average wingspan. This does not take into account the best of all players, but it at least shows people that a person being 6-8 with a 7-0 wingspan makes very little difference as that is normal for a person of that size playing at this level. Also gives a good idea of what constitutes a player as being athletic, at least in the confines of these tests. Good find Quincey.

mikeyvthedon
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Basic Analysis

PG

Physical Attributes: 6'2 (I am rounding up, but I add the 1.25 inches with shoes), 6'5 wingspan, 185 lbs and a 8'1 standing reach

SG

6'5, 6'8 wingspan, 202 lbs and a 8'5 standing reach

SF

6'7, 6'10 wingspan, 213 and a 8'8 standing reach

PF

6'9, 7'1 wingspan, 235 and a 8'11 standing reach

C

6'11, 7'3 standing reach, 252 and 9'2 standing reach

For points/wings: 30 inch standing vert, 35 inch max vert

For bigs: 28 inch standing vert, 31 inch max vert

This obviously is not the end all be all to desribe athleticism, much less basketball skill, but it gives you an idea of what to think about when you say a player is undersized. It at least gives a more clear guideline to the questions of a players height and wingspan making them undersized. Nonetheless, do you want a player who hits the average or is above the average? Skill level usually makes the difference, but it is something to consider.

sammybuckeye13
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I really don't think this

I really don't think this furthers any argument about being undersized...NBA players are almost always listed at their height in shoes, which would translate to about 6-1.5 for PG's, 6-5 for SG's, 6-7 for SF's, 6-9 for PF's, and 6-10.5-6-11 for C's, which is about the consensus now.

sammybuckeye13
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^

I must have just posted that right after Mikeyvthedon, he basically says the same thing

The lake show2
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Exactly. so now people can

Exactly. so now people can stop saying " he's undersized so he prob wont be as good", when in reality the player is not undersized.

mikeyvthedon
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Still

The debate will rage on. While the prototype may be 6'9 and 235-240, do you want average or do you want above average? This is an interesting look into average player attributes at the combines, but you have to look also at the attributes of the premier players in basketball. Lets look at the top level players in the league at each position.

Most top PG's: Unless you are a freak athlete, and in some cases even with being one, they tend to be far above average in many of the categories. Chris Paul, Raymond Felton and Jameer Nelson are PG's who make up for their lack of height with doing other things VERY well, so above average.

Most top SG's: Most top SG's are usually taller than average. The ones who are not (Monta Ellis) are usually incredibly quick and athletic (not by the tests standards when he was in draft camp, but we know what's up), so above average

Most top SF's: The thing you notice about most of the best SF's right now as that they are usually about 6'8 or taller. Paul Pierce is slightly shorter for an SF, but is also stronger and much more athletic than average.

Most top PF's: The NBA right now is littered with above average sized PF's. They are usually taller and longer than 6'9 and most weigh more than 235. Not to mention, they tend to crush the standards set for athleticism.

Most top C's: Not a lot of those right now, but the ones that are out there tend to be far above average in most categories given. Dwight Howard, who is of average height and weighs slightly more than average, obliterates the athletic standards of a Center.

The great equalizer for this is of course skill set, but it is not cut and dry. Just because a player is average in one area, their skill set may indeed make them above average. However, bare in mind that they are going up against players who also possess fantastic skill sets, and the elite in these categories tend to be above these given averages. I know this is probably in defense of guys like Sullinger and Williams, but look at top PF's in the league, and you do not see a lot who fit the description of being the average height or weight, and especially not athleticism. They are both really strong draft prospects, but if anything this provides even more worry about their ability to be elite NBA players, which are usually what you are looking for in the top few picks of the draft. Both have great things to provide, Williams I think is a very strong athlete who could possibly play either forward position and Sullinger is far stronger than any draft prospect I remember in recent memory being projected as high as he is, but the concerns over their size might indeed still be legitimate.

My ultimate hope is that they would take the best players numbers and projections in height and athletic testing and see what the elite of the elite possess. I am sure the draft combines scores are outdated in the cases of many of these players, only God knows if OJ Mayo still has a 41 inch vertical and Monta Ellis jumps 32, but it would be really interesting. It is good to know the average, but in many cases we do not know the numbers of some of the best out there, and those are what intrigue me. You can go and look at their combine numbers, but you would not see the accurate scores of a number of the NBA's best. Would really like to know numbers for KG, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. It would be cool if they had standard athletic test run downs for each player, but I think it would be a tad too much. In any case, these averages are interesting, but are these necessarily NBA averages? After all, their database has a number of players who never made the NBA. Well, my guess is that does not matter much, but still, it would nice to know what constituted great rather than good.

The lake show2
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But the debate wasn't what

But the debate wasn't what you want because iof that is the case everyone wants a 6'9 point guard and a 7'6 center. The debate was what was considered undersized. And it takes all players into account, the tall ones and the short ones

jjonz
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by undersized you mean

by undersized you mean E.Boykins or Chuck Hayes 6'6 Center.

jjonz
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Barkley was listed @ 6'6 but

Barkley was listed @ 6'6 but was more like 6'4. And he played 3 & 4 Position. I don't know if he could play that position today.

The lake show2
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Some people on here say

Some people on here say undersized is Sullinger and Love

shipargos
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evaluating prospects

I think we should make averages for NBA starters, because it is mostly what you want when you draft, you draft a player comparable to NBA standouts, nobody drafts for benchwarmers, at least you use your second round draft picks on possible good bench players, Perhaps adding sixth man or the traditional energy big from the bench.

This should be a better standard than measure all draft propects.

mikeyvthedon
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Quincey

What you posted underneath my last post had nothing to do with anything I said whatsoever. Just so you know, it did not connect.

The lake show2
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Most of the bench warmers are

Most of the bench warmers are actually taller then the averages

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