[valentine]

 Has the NBA started yet? No you say…ok then. Another off-topic thread.

This is connected to the ‘next goat’ thread…cos I don’t believe the next Goat has to be great at everything…but rather simply unstoppable at one single thing.

Why aren’t kids practicing skyhooks? Its proven to be the best shot in basketball. A bad 7 footer in the D League could average 14ppg if he had a skyhook that was unblockable.

If Rudy Gobert for example practiced since he was 8 years old with both hands and could hit 55%…he’d be unstoppable.

I’ve tried a few Skyhooks in my time…and although a little tricky…theyre not that hard to execute. I don’t have a 6’4" son in the 5th grade..but if I did he wouldnt get supper until he hit 100 with each hand.

What are some other ‘lost arts’ in the NBA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 Two words… GOOD NICKNAMES

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 Two words… GOOD NICKNAMES

[T Rex]

 daisy duke jersey shorts, and thigh-high striped socks

[T Rex]

 daisy duke jersey shorts, and thigh-high striped socks

[YungmUNyParticipant]

One of the things that I’ve noticed that is overlooked is passing in the interior. Nowadays, a team like the Grizzlies will have a huge advantage with their interior passing game. Most people think having an interior passer means having a big guy who can sling the ball around from any position on the court, and that is part of it, but being able to make passes within five feet of the basket to another big is a lost art, and that’s one of the main reasons why the Gasol/Z-Bo combo works so well. Gasol is great; Z-Bo is great; the Grizzlies wallow in mediocrity if only one of them is hurt though, because that’s the small thing they do so well that other teams haven’t picked up on. Those guys make so many "difficult" passes to each other in the paint that used to just be a part of the game, and with the perimeter/"versatility" oriented focus that youth coaching has taken on, players don’t weave passes to each other on the block like they used to. 

[YungmUNyParticipant]

One of the things that I’ve noticed that is overlooked is passing in the interior. Nowadays, a team like the Grizzlies will have a huge advantage with their interior passing game. Most people think having an interior passer means having a big guy who can sling the ball around from any position on the court, and that is part of it, but being able to make passes within five feet of the basket to another big is a lost art, and that’s one of the main reasons why the Gasol/Z-Bo combo works so well. Gasol is great; Z-Bo is great; the Grizzlies wallow in mediocrity if only one of them is hurt though, because that’s the small thing they do so well that other teams haven’t picked up on. Those guys make so many "difficult" passes to each other in the paint that used to just be a part of the game, and with the perimeter/"versatility" oriented focus that youth coaching has taken on, players don’t weave passes to each other on the block like they used to. 

[YungmUNyParticipant]

 To the OP though, the sky hook is about as gimmicky as the Rick Barry underhanded free-throws. Sure, if you taught someone to do that from an early age, it could be potentially unstoppable, until the darting wings with huge wingspans, that our AAU systems are developing like never before, hone in that particular shot and start attacking from the weak side. In terms of "fundamentally sound" basketball, there are so many aspects of good low-post play that are not being taught to this upcoming group of talent. It’s boring, but it’s effective.

[YungmUNyParticipant]

 To the OP though, the sky hook is about as gimmicky as the Rick Barry underhanded free-throws. Sure, if you taught someone to do that from an early age, it could be potentially unstoppable, until the darting wings with huge wingspans, that our AAU systems are developing like never before, hone in that particular shot and start attacking from the weak side. In terms of "fundamentally sound" basketball, there are so many aspects of good low-post play that are not being taught to this upcoming group of talent. It’s boring, but it’s effective.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 How about the "lost art" of the free throw?  Or the "lost art" of help defense? Or rebounding with both hands?

I mean, the skyhook is the last thing that I would be teaching any player of any age at this time.  So many basic funadamental skills are lacking even at the NBA level that while the skyhook is fun to see, I wouldn’t bother teaching it until all of the other basics are met first.

[IlladelphParticipant]

 How about the "lost art" of the free throw?  Or the "lost art" of help defense? Or rebounding with both hands?

I mean, the skyhook is the last thing that I would be teaching any player of any age at this time.  So many basic funadamental skills are lacking even at the NBA level that while the skyhook is fun to see, I wouldn’t bother teaching it until all of the other basics are met first.

[nick5354Participant]

  I think this is a valid point.

The NBA is a league where you have to be good at one thing. It is a rarity for these’ jack of all trade’ guys who do most thing okay but nothing great. To succeed in the NBA it is proven you need to excel at that one thing, and the skyhook is just an extension to this – to make sure the one thing you do great is exceptional.

 

[nick5354Participant]

  I think this is a valid point.

The NBA is a league where you have to be good at one thing. It is a rarity for these’ jack of all trade’ guys who do most thing okay but nothing great. To succeed in the NBA it is proven you need to excel at that one thing, and the skyhook is just an extension to this – to make sure the one thing you do great is exceptional.

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 There’s a reason no other player in history has used the sky hook close to as effectively as kareem. It is an incredibly difficult shot to master. It requires an unbelievable balance, coordination, and touch. It’s not something that can really just be taught over a summer. It has to be something that’s practiced for several years before a player could realistically have any success using it in a game. Kareems combination of incredible length, huge hands, incredible balance and a soft touch made the shot a deadly weapon for him. It’s just extremely rare for a player to come along with those same attributes. Believe me, if more players could use the sky hook effectively, they would have.

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 There’s a reason no other player in history has used the sky hook close to as effectively as kareem. It is an incredibly difficult shot to master. It requires an unbelievable balance, coordination, and touch. It’s not something that can really just be taught over a summer. It has to be something that’s practiced for several years before a player could realistically have any success using it in a game. Kareems combination of incredible length, huge hands, incredible balance and a soft touch made the shot a deadly weapon for him. It’s just extremely rare for a player to come along with those same attributes. Believe me, if more players could use the sky hook effectively, they would have.

[thparadoxParticipant]

I am a practitioner of both the jump hook and the sky hook.

The shot remains EXTREMELY effective… the spacing, timing, height of the shot, natural rhythm of the shot, etc. make it easier than a jump shot during game play. This is especially true when close to the basket.

3 key situations

1) post up

2) put back off the offensive rebound

3) as a last resort when the defense collapses (if you still have your dribble, you can use a running / sky hook. With no dribble, you can turn around and jump hook)

It is simply the most dependable shot in a key moment.. similar to a step back or fadeaway jumper because you can be fairly certain that you’ll get the shot off. It’s actually the opposite of the underhanded free throw because it can be applied so extensively in game play.

So, why is the hook shot in decline?

1. The hook shot is a solution for big men. Perimeter players should be focused on perimeter oriented shots. The equivalent of the hook shot would be a runner or floater. As this shot has gained popularity, it makes far more sense to learn a runner / floater than a hook shot if you are a guard

2. Big men have a choice on what to focus on. You can’t spend 2 hours a day practicing your hook shot if you’re spending all that time learning to play stretch 4 and weight lifting. This is exactly what has happened. Big men have become more perimeter oriented AND/ OR athleticism oriented. This leaves no time or focus for softer skills like a hook shot.

3. Lower quality of big men in general. Since a great defender (Rudy Gobert) is way more valuable at the center position than at other positions on the court, these players have taken over the position and crowded out the big men with finesse. For every Pau Gasol type, there are 4 or 5 Tyson Chandler / Dwight Howard types.

It is tragic to watch Dwight Howard turn and whip the ball at the rim like a shot put. But that’s life. I’m sure he could have removed 30 minutes of weight lifting per day to practice a hook shot. But he didn’t, and that’s why Tim Duncan (jump hook user) will be remembered as the far superior player.

Insider tip: Once you get comfortable with either the jump hook or sky hook, you can transition to different types of hook shots.

I started with the jump hook. That shot comes off 2 feet… to do a sky hook you just need to change the footwork a bit into more of a layup. Having both is great because you can keep the defense from reading your timing. If you can do a sky hook, you can then use it off the dribble as a running hook.

Finally, the footwork is the same as the floater (jump hook) and runner (sky hook), so it helps with developing those shots too

[thparadoxParticipant]

Addendum:

OP, you really don’t need to have a hook shot with both hands. It’s unstoppable with one hand. The off hand is much harder to learn, and benefit is marginal at best. For instance, how many shots do you see Tim Duncan take with his left hand?

In many ways the hook shot is easier to learn than the jump shot. It is a simpler, more natural movement compared to the jump shot. I say this because the jump shot is ruined easily by any stiffness or misalignment. Even Mutombo developed a hook shot (it was ugly and terrible, but better than nothing).

I’ve always thought that Shaq should experimented with a hook shot on his free throws.. since his hands were not clearly not suitable for holding a basketball on a jump shot, he didn’t have much to lose.

 

[thparadoxParticipant]

Addendum:

OP, you really don’t need to have a hook shot with both hands. It’s unstoppable with one hand. The off hand is much harder to learn, and benefit is marginal at best. For instance, how many shots do you see Tim Duncan take with his left hand?

In many ways the hook shot is easier to learn than the jump shot. It is a simpler, more natural movement compared to the jump shot. I say this because the jump shot is ruined easily by any stiffness or misalignment. Even Mutombo developed a hook shot (it was ugly and terrible, but better than nothing).

I’ve always thought that Shaq should experimented with a hook shot on his free throws.. since his hands were not clearly not suitable for holding a basketball on a jump shot, he didn’t have much to lose.

 

[thparadoxParticipant]

I am a practitioner of both the jump hook and the sky hook.

The shot remains EXTREMELY effective… the spacing, timing, height of the shot, natural rhythm of the shot, etc. make it easier than a jump shot during game play. This is especially true when close to the basket.

3 key situations

1) post up

2) put back off the offensive rebound

3) as a last resort when the defense collapses (if you still have your dribble, you can use a running / sky hook. With no dribble, you can turn around and jump hook)

It is simply the most dependable shot in a key moment.. similar to a step back or fadeaway jumper because you can be fairly certain that you’ll get the shot off. It’s actually the opposite of the underhanded free throw because it can be applied so extensively in game play.

So, why is the hook shot in decline?

1. The hook shot is a solution for big men. Perimeter players should be focused on perimeter oriented shots. The equivalent of the hook shot would be a runner or floater. As this shot has gained popularity, it makes far more sense to learn a runner / floater than a hook shot if you are a guard

2. Big men have a choice on what to focus on. You can’t spend 2 hours a day practicing your hook shot if you’re spending all that time learning to play stretch 4 and weight lifting. This is exactly what has happened. Big men have become more perimeter oriented AND/ OR athleticism oriented. This leaves no time or focus for softer skills like a hook shot.

3. Lower quality of big men in general. Since a great defender (Rudy Gobert) is way more valuable at the center position than at other positions on the court, these players have taken over the position and crowded out the big men with finesse. For every Pau Gasol type, there are 4 or 5 Tyson Chandler / Dwight Howard types.

It is tragic to watch Dwight Howard turn and whip the ball at the rim like a shot put. But that’s life. I’m sure he could have removed 30 minutes of weight lifting per day to practice a hook shot. But he didn’t, and that’s why Tim Duncan (jump hook user) will be remembered as the far superior player.

Insider tip: Once you get comfortable with either the jump hook or sky hook, you can transition to different types of hook shots.

I started with the jump hook. That shot comes off 2 feet… to do a sky hook you just need to change the footwork a bit into more of a layup. Having both is great because you can keep the defense from reading your timing. If you can do a sky hook, you can then use it off the dribble as a running hook.

Finally, the footwork is the same as the floater (jump hook) and runner (sky hook), so it helps with developing those shots too

[tuck243Participant]

Almost every team used to drive around the free throw line and just pull up in the 80’s.  Similar to Westbrook, but mostly in the half court.   It was one of Jordan’s favorite shots.    It’s seems like players don’t actually "jump" on their jump shots anymore either.   

[tuck243Participant]

Almost every team used to drive around the free throw line and just pull up in the 80’s.  Similar to Westbrook, but mostly in the half court.   It was one of Jordan’s favorite shots.    It’s seems like players don’t actually "jump" on their jump shots anymore either.   

[King CaluchaParticipant]

How about boxing out??

[King CaluchaParticipant]

How about boxing out??

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 the up and under finger roll.  you can do it off the glass or even a no-look over the back move.  I try a few in pickup games, as well as the old school sky hook here and there, and it seems like you have similar footwork and angles to pull off both shots.  If you can do EITHER the hook/sky hook or the Up and under move/finger roll you will be very effective on the lower blocks or even just outside the paint.

You can probably also set up on one of the high blocks start the wind up for the sky hook, then fake, reverse pivot and throw out the up and under finger roll from the other side.  

If you pump fake a hook shot move, then I wanna say that your immediate best option will be either a finger roll or a floater — something quick and one handed, either off one foot or two feet.  

In space, you wanna get a shot of quickly, preferably a high arching shot.  So, you go with the finger roll or the hook, or you at the very least use similar footwork.  

Other inside shots: jump stop, fadeaway bank shot off two feet.  The one legged runner/jump shot.  The baseline set shot.

The pure turnaround jumper is probably the lowest precentage shot you can get UNLESS you have a distinct size and length advantage.  BUT, if the shot clock is winding down, go with the turn around jumper.  Same mechanics as the regular jump shot once you turn around, but you are more likely to get the shot off and catch the defender off guard.  For the last second turnaround you probably want to jump off two feet and shoot the ball as you are going up — unless you have the hangtime and perfect timing to shoot at the APEX of your jump.  Supposedly Bernard King used to shoot as he was going up, and he KILLED people.  He could drive, post up and turn around.  Just going off highlights here, but that is what it looked like.  Didn’t even look like he shot the same shot twice.

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 the up and under finger roll.  you can do it off the glass or even a no-look over the back move.  I try a few in pickup games, as well as the old school sky hook here and there, and it seems like you have similar footwork and angles to pull off both shots.  If you can do EITHER the hook/sky hook or the Up and under move/finger roll you will be very effective on the lower blocks or even just outside the paint.

You can probably also set up on one of the high blocks start the wind up for the sky hook, then fake, reverse pivot and throw out the up and under finger roll from the other side.  

If you pump fake a hook shot move, then I wanna say that your immediate best option will be either a finger roll or a floater — something quick and one handed, either off one foot or two feet.  

In space, you wanna get a shot of quickly, preferably a high arching shot.  So, you go with the finger roll or the hook, or you at the very least use similar footwork.  

Other inside shots: jump stop, fadeaway bank shot off two feet.  The one legged runner/jump shot.  The baseline set shot.

The pure turnaround jumper is probably the lowest precentage shot you can get UNLESS you have a distinct size and length advantage.  BUT, if the shot clock is winding down, go with the turn around jumper.  Same mechanics as the regular jump shot once you turn around, but you are more likely to get the shot off and catch the defender off guard.  For the last second turnaround you probably want to jump off two feet and shoot the ball as you are going up — unless you have the hangtime and perfect timing to shoot at the APEX of your jump.  Supposedly Bernard King used to shoot as he was going up, and he KILLED people.  He could drive, post up and turn around.  Just going off highlights here, but that is what it looked like.  Didn’t even look like he shot the same shot twice.

 

 

 

 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

The skyhook would actually work in today’s NBA game since the paint continues to open up. If you have 4 shooters to spread the defense, a coordinated center would have the space needed to get off the skyhook. 

The problem this the ‘coorindated’ part. A skyhook isn’t that easy. But there are skilled bigs who could do it. i.e. Gasol, Noah, Lopez and perhaps Porzingis.  

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

The skyhook would actually work in today’s NBA game since the paint continues to open up. If you have 4 shooters to spread the defense, a coordinated center would have the space needed to get off the skyhook. 

The problem this the ‘coorindated’ part. A skyhook isn’t that easy. But there are skilled bigs who could do it. i.e. Gasol, Noah, Lopez and perhaps Porzingis.  

 

[T Rex]

 Porzingis and Turner don’t need a sky hook. Their turnaround jumpers are going to be pretty much unblockable.

That’s what happens when you’re light on your feet and have measurements like Shaq, or better in Porzingis’ measurements.

 

 

[T Rex]

 Porzingis and Turner don’t need a sky hook. Their turnaround jumpers are going to be pretty much unblockable.

That’s what happens when you’re light on your feet and have measurements like Shaq, or better in Porzingis’ measurements.

 

 

[TrillaParticipant]

 It has become obselete due to the ananlytics movement. A lot of guard used to make a living with the in between game, and defenses arent exactly keying in on stopping midrange jumpshots and what not.

[TrillaParticipant]

 It has become obselete due to the ananlytics movement. A lot of guard used to make a living with the in between game, and defenses arent exactly keying in on stopping midrange jumpshots and what not.

[T Rex]

 I don’t know if this was ever a practiced art, but what about just throwing the ball off the backboard to yourself, like we know Drummond can’t shoot, but why not get good at passing the ball off the backboard to yourself for a closer shot?

I could see guys like Porzingis, Gobert, and WCS being really effective with this. Especially Porzingis because he’s coordinated.

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 I don’t know if this was ever a practiced art, but what about just throwing the ball off the backboard to yourself, like we know Drummond can’t shoot, but why not get good at passing the ball off the backboard to yourself for a closer shot?

I could see guys like Porzingis, Gobert, and WCS being really effective with this. Especially Porzingis because he’s coordinated.

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I actually believe since most young big men focus on their jump shot so much it would be easier to master the fade-away jumper, a la Nowitzki, which is also basically unstopable. The motion of shooting is the same, except you have to practice your balance for those shots to fall. I believe is easier to combine a fade-away shot with outside shooting than it is mastering the jump of sky hook.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I actually believe since most young big men focus on their jump shot so much it would be easier to master the fade-away jumper, a la Nowitzki, which is also basically unstopable. The motion of shooting is the same, except you have to practice your balance for those shots to fall. I believe is easier to combine a fade-away shot with outside shooting than it is mastering the jump of sky hook.

[kazamParticipant]

We still see it from time to time but it big guards and wings playing out of the low block. Billups, Casell, Gary Payton all made big time plays and got buckets from the low block. Today we don’t see as many point guards posted but still see a number of bigger wings willing to do so like Kobe, DeRozan, Jimmy Butler, Wiggins and Wade. 

[kazamParticipant]

We still see it from time to time but it big guards and wings playing out of the low block. Billups, Casell, Gary Payton all made big time plays and got buckets from the low block. Today we don’t see as many point guards posted but still see a number of bigger wings willing to do so like Kobe, DeRozan, Jimmy Butler, Wiggins and Wade. 

[Author]

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