[vulture711Participant]

 As we start looking ahead to draft, one of the points of intrigue, at least for me, is whether guys are really as tall as listed and how that impacts their value.  I think there are a few guys in this draft where their height is in question.  Randle of course, in shoes, could be anywhere from 6-8 to 6-10, and since he’s a 4, the bigger the better.  The other just based my my watching, is Gary Harris, who looks closer to 6-3 than 6-5.  For teams an inch or two does matter and makes a guy go from a 4 man to a tweener etc.  For the players, a simple measurement could mean 4-5 draft slots.

[vulture711Participant]

 This works both ways as a guy can jump based on this as well.  Nic Vucevic jumped up quite a bit when he measuired out a legit 7 Footer and there is a long list of others who got out of the tweener or combo guard label by adding an inch or two at the combine.  Any thoughts on this years crop who may surprise up or down ?

[vulture711Participant]

 This works both ways as a guy can jump based on this as well.  Nic Vucevic jumped up quite a bit when he measuired out a legit 7 Footer and there is a long list of others who got out of the tweener or combo guard label by adding an inch or two at the combine.  Any thoughts on this years crop who may surprise up or down ?

[omphalosParticipant]

I think the big question for Randle is wingspan, his arms don’t seem to compensate for his less than ideal size.

[omphalosParticipant]

I think the big question for Randle is wingspan, his arms don’t seem to compensate for his less than ideal size.

[vulture711Participant]

 He also plays "below the rim" but is strong as an ox and very skilled with the ball

[vulture711Participant]

 He also plays "below the rim" but is strong as an ox and very skilled with the ball

[PhillytheKid]

When I see Randle play like a 3, which he was trying to show midseason, I see a very average 3.  He is constantly turning the ball over, is not a smooth passer, and has a below average handle. (He is not Lebron James, not even close)

 

As a 4, I am hesitant about Randle because although he is strong and has similar height and weight to Zach Randolph, his arms are short.  There are other strong players in the NBA.  PF next to PG is the most stacked position in the NBA.  

Not saying Randle will not be a good player.  I think his size holds him back just like Parker’s size leads to questions.  Parker has an outstanding overall offensive game.  I’m not sure Randle does.  

This is why I think the draft will go:  Embiid/Wiggins/Parker/Exum/Vonleh/Randle.

 

I hope the Sixers get Wiggins. 

[PhillytheKid]

When I see Randle play like a 3, which he was trying to show midseason, I see a very average 3.  He is constantly turning the ball over, is not a smooth passer, and has a below average handle. (He is not Lebron James, not even close)

 

As a 4, I am hesitant about Randle because although he is strong and has similar height and weight to Zach Randolph, his arms are short.  There are other strong players in the NBA.  PF next to PG is the most stacked position in the NBA.  

Not saying Randle will not be a good player.  I think his size holds him back just like Parker’s size leads to questions.  Parker has an outstanding overall offensive game.  I’m not sure Randle does.  

This is why I think the draft will go:  Embiid/Wiggins/Parker/Exum/Vonleh/Randle.

 

I hope the Sixers get Wiggins. 

[vulture711Participant]

 I’m a Sixer fan as well and I think Hinkie values length.  Wiggins would probably be the pick over Parker and then have to see what happens with the Pelicans pick.  I hope they win a couple more games just to stay out of the bottom 5 but that pick should stay 7-10.  We need a 2 guard to pair with MCW but I’m not sure I love any guys at that spot.  Maybe look to move that pick.

[vulture711Participant]

 I’m a Sixer fan as well and I think Hinkie values length.  Wiggins would probably be the pick over Parker and then have to see what happens with the Pelicans pick.  I hope they win a couple more games just to stay out of the bottom 5 but that pick should stay 7-10.  We need a 2 guard to pair with MCW but I’m not sure I love any guys at that spot.  Maybe look to move that pick.

[jwall1Participant]

I would say just by seeing Randle that he looks about 6’9. I completely agree that size matters, but I really do not see Randle being a tweener in the NBA. For one, he plays like a power forward. He is an elite rebounder and has the strength to do what he wants offensively for the most part. Also, his vertical jump and quickness are very good for a guy of his size and weight. Even though he has not showcased it much in college, he does have an above average perimeter game. The NBA also seems to lean towards playing smaller in terms of at the PF (i.e. Lebron and Melo), so I think if anything Randle will benefit from this. 

[jwall1Participant]

I would say just by seeing Randle that he looks about 6’9. I completely agree that size matters, but I really do not see Randle being a tweener in the NBA. For one, he plays like a power forward. He is an elite rebounder and has the strength to do what he wants offensively for the most part. Also, his vertical jump and quickness are very good for a guy of his size and weight. Even though he has not showcased it much in college, he does have an above average perimeter game. The NBA also seems to lean towards playing smaller in terms of at the PF (i.e. Lebron and Melo), so I think if anything Randle will benefit from this. 

[LA12Participant]

 Randle is nothing close to a tweener. A tweener is when a guy’s stuck skills suited for the perimeter, but is slow as a rock and wouldn’t be able to keep up with NBA SF’s, or when they have a game meant for the low post but are not strong enough or big enough to contend with NBA PF’s. 

Randle’s game is undoubtedly meant for the low post, and I think even at 6’8" or 6’9" he’d have sufficient height to work down low and we all no Randle’s no slouch in the strength department. I think everyone’s overthinking it, he’ll be fine down low. If Chuck Hayes can make a career off playing center, why is everyone so worried about Julius as a PF?

 

[LA12Participant]

 Randle is nothing close to a tweener. A tweener is when a guy’s stuck skills suited for the perimeter, but is slow as a rock and wouldn’t be able to keep up with NBA SF’s, or when they have a game meant for the low post but are not strong enough or big enough to contend with NBA PF’s. 

Randle’s game is undoubtedly meant for the low post, and I think even at 6’8" or 6’9" he’d have sufficient height to work down low and we all no Randle’s no slouch in the strength department. I think everyone’s overthinking it, he’ll be fine down low. If Chuck Hayes can make a career off playing center, why is everyone so worried about Julius as a PF?

 

[theprophetParticipant]

this subject has been touched on here before, and as omphalos also eluded to regarding randle, length (wing span) is as important as height and is taken as much into account.

to make a case for both points, if a player like aj hammonds were to declare, he may move up draft boards due to not only his height and length, but he’s a big dude to. (since we’re going there, so is randle)

combine is looked at more than measurements as well. perhaps to much as opposed to real game action at times because not all of the best players are the most athletic.

[theprophetParticipant]

this subject has been touched on here before, and as omphalos also eluded to regarding randle, length (wing span) is as important as height and is taken as much into account.

to make a case for both points, if a player like aj hammonds were to declare, he may move up draft boards due to not only his height and length, but he’s a big dude to. (since we’re going there, so is randle)

combine is looked at more than measurements as well. perhaps to much as opposed to real game action at times because not all of the best players are the most athletic.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 We are talking as a top ten pick. If Chuck Hayes is the starter for your team and getting major minutes, that team is likely awful. I think Randlle strength is being overplayed. He is overpowering college players, but he can’t over power more then half the PF’s in the league. He will likely add up to 6’9 with shoes, but unlike Randoph or Sullinger who make up for it with arm length. Randle has the same length as a starting SG in the league.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

 We are talking as a top ten pick. If Chuck Hayes is the starter for your team and getting major minutes, that team is likely awful. I think Randlle strength is being overplayed. He is overpowering college players, but he can’t over power more then half the PF’s in the league. He will likely add up to 6’9 with shoes, but unlike Randoph or Sullinger who make up for it with arm length. Randle has the same length as a starting SG in the league.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 I personally look at Randle differently. It has been mentioned time and time again on this site about how short his arms are and I understand that argument.  However, I disagree in the sense that I don’t think Randles strengths in the NBA will be posting up.  I think once in the league he will be best used in the open floor where he really does love freakishly well for someone his size.  When you couple his speed with his ability to handle the ball in the open floor and his strength, he has pretty unique physical traits.  Add the fact that he could be a solid rebounder and that’s the type of player I expect to see of Randle in the NBA.  His wingspan or lack there of will only be or mostly be a real issue when he is playing in the post with his back to the basket which I don’t imagine will be often.  Its just not where the league is heading.

 

He needs to focus on improving his jump shot. I think that will be more important for him going forward than working on his post skills.

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 I personally look at Randle differently. It has been mentioned time and time again on this site about how short his arms are and I understand that argument.  However, I disagree in the sense that I don’t think Randles strengths in the NBA will be posting up.  I think once in the league he will be best used in the open floor where he really does love freakishly well for someone his size.  When you couple his speed with his ability to handle the ball in the open floor and his strength, he has pretty unique physical traits.  Add the fact that he could be a solid rebounder and that’s the type of player I expect to see of Randle in the NBA.  His wingspan or lack there of will only be or mostly be a real issue when he is playing in the post with his back to the basket which I don’t imagine will be often.  Its just not where the league is heading.

 

He needs to focus on improving his jump shot. I think that will be more important for him going forward than working on his post skills.

 

 

[Jester87Participant]

As far as size I think it would be interesting to see how will measure guys like Harris, Randle, Harrell, McDermott. Harris as mentioned looks a bit smaller than listed, I bet he’s something close to 6’3" without shoes and he doesn’t look to have that great wingspan to make up for it. But if he proves he’s at least a legit 6’5" in shoes (obviously without freaking Ryan Kelly big-ass-heels-shoes) with a 6’7" wingspan or so, size won’t be a concern for him anymore. Randle might not be really big, but he has at least decent wingspan, in the 6’11" range. Harrell is a freak athlete, but he was measured only 6’5.75" barefoot (6’6.5" in shoes) last summer when he played for USA Basketball in the U19 world championship. That is a bit too small for a PF, though he has a ridicolous 7’3" wingspan and 8’11"standing reach (Blake Griffin had a 8’9" standing reach). As for McDermott, I read some rumors of him being smaller than the listed 6’7", but he was measured at 6’8" in shoes at Amare Stoudemire Camp 2 years ago and I’m pretty sure he hasn’t got any smaller. I don’t know if those measurements are as reliable as Nba pre-draft combine ones, so it will be interesting to see.

[Jester87Participant]

As far as size I think it would be interesting to see how will measure guys like Harris, Randle, Harrell, McDermott. Harris as mentioned looks a bit smaller than listed, I bet he’s something close to 6’3" without shoes and he doesn’t look to have that great wingspan to make up for it. But if he proves he’s at least a legit 6’5" in shoes (obviously without freaking Ryan Kelly big-ass-heels-shoes) with a 6’7" wingspan or so, size won’t be a concern for him anymore. Randle might not be really big, but he has at least decent wingspan, in the 6’11" range. Harrell is a freak athlete, but he was measured only 6’5.75" barefoot (6’6.5" in shoes) last summer when he played for USA Basketball in the U19 world championship. That is a bit too small for a PF, though he has a ridicolous 7’3" wingspan and 8’11"standing reach (Blake Griffin had a 8’9" standing reach). As for McDermott, I read some rumors of him being smaller than the listed 6’7", but he was measured at 6’8" in shoes at Amare Stoudemire Camp 2 years ago and I’m pretty sure he hasn’t got any smaller. I don’t know if those measurements are as reliable as Nba pre-draft combine ones, so it will be interesting to see.

[PhillytheKid]

I still don’t see what you all see in Harris.  Harris is just solid/average.  Looking at previous drafts anyone that doesn’t stand out athletically usually just becomes a name in the NBA.  Corey Brewer was a solid/average guard and look at him now.  

Harris has no flash of potential.  I can name so many players he reminds me of….Brandon Rush, etc.

In the lottery you want someone that stands out.  McDermott stands out because of his shooting.  Lavine stands out because of his athleticism.  Saric stands out because he always makes the right pass and can do everything with his size, he’s more versatile than a Gary Harris.  James Young is long and on Kentucky this year he’s underutilized.

I like Hood, but Hood also to me seems like he’s beating up college kids and has that Duke hype associated with him.  Longer more athletic players will expose him.  I think Hood and Harris are going to be average pros.  Obviously i’m new to this site, but what was the hype with Austin Rivers before he was drafted?  I never saw him being anything special, a product of the hype machine.   

[PhillytheKid]

I still don’t see what you all see in Harris.  Harris is just solid/average.  Looking at previous drafts anyone that doesn’t stand out athletically usually just becomes a name in the NBA.  Corey Brewer was a solid/average guard and look at him now.  

Harris has no flash of potential.  I can name so many players he reminds me of….Brandon Rush, etc.

In the lottery you want someone that stands out.  McDermott stands out because of his shooting.  Lavine stands out because of his athleticism.  Saric stands out because he always makes the right pass and can do everything with his size, he’s more versatile than a Gary Harris.  James Young is long and on Kentucky this year he’s underutilized.

I like Hood, but Hood also to me seems like he’s beating up college kids and has that Duke hype associated with him.  Longer more athletic players will expose him.  I think Hood and Harris are going to be average pros.  Obviously i’m new to this site, but what was the hype with Austin Rivers before he was drafted?  I never saw him being anything special, a product of the hype machine.   

[tuck243Participant]

McDermott plays for Gonzaga. Lately their players have been end of the bench role players in the league. Adam Morrison was a stand out too and look where he’s at. As long as Gary can finish in traffic then his height is no issue in my opinion. I just wrote a post about SG’s in the NBA are majority “small”. Damn near every starting 2 guard is 6’5 and below. If he’s 6’4 I don’t see an issue with him guarding anyone at his position.

I think height and length is strictly a concern for big men. Obviously, Randle isn’t going to be a shot blocker in the league so that’s a knock. Honestly, PF’s in the league aren’t going to be able to handle him because his motor is relentless. Blake Griffin isn’t smart enough to force him to his right. I think his motor alone will enable him to be a factor offensively. Yet, you still don’t know. The length could be a big issue for him ala Mike Beasley and Kevin Love.

Austin Rivers issue is he can’t finish. He’s suspect on defense because he just doesn’t play defense, which is similar to most young players in this league. He doesn’t have a problem getting passed his defender offensively, his problem is he can’t finish. Add the fact that he’s a streaky shooter, you should see why he’s not producing. Look at Lillard, dude really can’t finish with his left hand. It’s so bad that he’s shooting 39% around the basket. What enables him to still put up numbers is his shot. Similar case with Stephen Curry years ago. He couldn’t finish, so he worked on his floater and finesse around the rim. I always thought having touch around the rim as a young guard was one of the most important things to have in your game. Take away Kyrie’s ability to finish around the rim and you have an average PG.

[tuck243Participant]

my bad ignore the first paragraph about McDormett

[tuck243Participant]

my bad ignore the first paragraph about McDormett

[tuck243Participant]

McDermott plays for Gonzaga. Lately their players have been end of the bench role players in the league. Adam Morrison was a stand out too and look where he’s at. As long as Gary can finish in traffic then his height is no issue in my opinion. I just wrote a post about SG’s in the NBA are majority “small”. Damn near every starting 2 guard is 6’5 and below. If he’s 6’4 I don’t see an issue with him guarding anyone at his position.

I think height and length is strictly a concern for big men. Obviously, Randle isn’t going to be a shot blocker in the league so that’s a knock. Honestly, PF’s in the league aren’t going to be able to handle him because his motor is relentless. Blake Griffin isn’t smart enough to force him to his right. I think his motor alone will enable him to be a factor offensively. Yet, you still don’t know. The length could be a big issue for him ala Mike Beasley and Kevin Love.

Austin Rivers issue is he can’t finish. He’s suspect on defense because he just doesn’t play defense, which is similar to most young players in this league. He doesn’t have a problem getting passed his defender offensively, his problem is he can’t finish. Add the fact that he’s a streaky shooter, you should see why he’s not producing. Look at Lillard, dude really can’t finish with his left hand. It’s so bad that he’s shooting 39% around the basket. What enables him to still put up numbers is his shot. Similar case with Stephen Curry years ago. He couldn’t finish, so he worked on his floater and finesse around the rim. I always thought having touch around the rim as a young guard was one of the most important things to have in your game. Take away Kyrie’s ability to finish around the rim and you have an average PG.

[juves4783Participant]

all you guys talking about size and potential.  that’s great, but i choose production.  randle rebounds and doesn’t give up on plays and that means a lot more to me than an inch of height.  the kenneth faried and paul millsap lovers of the world would probably agree with that.  i’m not worried about randle.  he has multi-skills, loves to rebound and has a solid frame.  

the gary harris vs. zach lavine argument is fairly simple.  i’ll take gary harris any day because he can score at his height against good competition, knows how to get open and plays tough defense.  to me, it doesn’t matter if you lay up the ball or throw down a windmill dunk; it’s all 2 points either way.  while lavine has some nice parts to his game, i’m not taking him until he shows he can be a main scorer or facilitator on his team.  right now, he’s a guy that wows for short spurts in games, then dissappears.

 

 

 

  

[juves4783Participant]

all you guys talking about size and potential.  that’s great, but i choose production.  randle rebounds and doesn’t give up on plays and that means a lot more to me than an inch of height.  the kenneth faried and paul millsap lovers of the world would probably agree with that.  i’m not worried about randle.  he has multi-skills, loves to rebound and has a solid frame.  

the gary harris vs. zach lavine argument is fairly simple.  i’ll take gary harris any day because he can score at his height against good competition, knows how to get open and plays tough defense.  to me, it doesn’t matter if you lay up the ball or throw down a windmill dunk; it’s all 2 points either way.  while lavine has some nice parts to his game, i’m not taking him until he shows he can be a main scorer or facilitator on his team.  right now, he’s a guy that wows for short spurts in games, then dissappears.

 

 

 

  

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Who thought Gary Harris was 6’5??

[tuck243Participant]

Go look at his page.

[tuck243Participant]

Go look at his page.

[vulture711Participant]

 Draftexpress lists him as 6-5 in shoes and I saw a high school recruiting site list him as 6-6.  My guess is he barely stretches to 6-4 in shoes and is probably 6-2 1/2 w/o

[vulture711Participant]

 Draftexpress lists him as 6-5 in shoes and I saw a high school recruiting site list him as 6-6.  My guess is he barely stretches to 6-4 in shoes and is probably 6-2 1/2 w/o

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

Who thought Gary Harris was 6’5??

[Scott42444Participant]

Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn’t.  Dwyane Wade is about 6’4" but is a legit SG who plays like he’s 6’7".  There are quite a few guys that have very, very similar Moody Bible numbers who just can’t get it done the same way.  They can have the same bench, same vertical, same wing-span, etc. but they play smaller/larger than other guys.  

 On a related note, I just read an article about Giannis Antetokounmpo.  He apparently grew over an inch since he was drafted and has a couple inches to go (according to the Bucks’ team doctor’s prediction).  That has to make them happy as he has displayed enough guard skills to be in the All-Star Game’s Skills Competition.  Having a legitimate 7’0" PG is hard for other teams to guard.

I also always heard that Kevin Garnett grew to be over 7’0" after he was drafted but actually wanted to be listed as a sub seven footer so that he would not be considered a center and could stay at the hybrid SF/PF he was playing in Minnesota.  God was he awesome, then.

That also brings to mind STRENGTH.  Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett are both skinny as possible yet they are strong enough to finish at the rim.  Looking at them you would think they would get thrown around the court but they more than hold their own (that’s an understatement since they will both be in the HOF).  Sometimes guys are better at things than they should be.

 

 

[Scott42444Participant]

Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn’t.  Dwyane Wade is about 6’4" but is a legit SG who plays like he’s 6’7".  There are quite a few guys that have very, very similar Moody Bible numbers who just can’t get it done the same way.  They can have the same bench, same vertical, same wing-span, etc. but they play smaller/larger than other guys.  

 On a related note, I just read an article about Giannis Antetokounmpo.  He apparently grew over an inch since he was drafted and has a couple inches to go (according to the Bucks’ team doctor’s prediction).  That has to make them happy as he has displayed enough guard skills to be in the All-Star Game’s Skills Competition.  Having a legitimate 7’0" PG is hard for other teams to guard.

I also always heard that Kevin Garnett grew to be over 7’0" after he was drafted but actually wanted to be listed as a sub seven footer so that he would not be considered a center and could stay at the hybrid SF/PF he was playing in Minnesota.  God was he awesome, then.

That also brings to mind STRENGTH.  Kevin Durant and Kevin Garnett are both skinny as possible yet they are strong enough to finish at the rim.  Looking at them you would think they would get thrown around the court but they more than hold their own (that’s an understatement since they will both be in the HOF).  Sometimes guys are better at things than they should be.

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Julius Randle’s wingspan could be an issue on defence in the NBA if he does play PF there as even with a big guarding the basket, a taller finesse PF could get a mid range jumper off against him. I still like him as a prospect but that tweener tag just worries me a little. Personally I see him going within the top 8 at worse and keep flipping him Smart and Vonleh in my potential mock drafts.

Randle has the build to be able to play PF being a legit 250lbs and if he did play SF then he’d have an advantage over most opponents in size. 

A lot would depend what the teams drafting in the 4 to 8 range are after as minus Embiid there isn’t a lot of front court size in the draft apart from someone like Vonleh until you get down towards about number 20, so Vonleh would have high draft value and Randle if he is a legit NBA PF would also have very high draft value too.

If Giannis at the Bucks is still growing then he coul become one hell of a point forward given his size.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 Julius Randle’s wingspan could be an issue on defence in the NBA if he does play PF there as even with a big guarding the basket, a taller finesse PF could get a mid range jumper off against him. I still like him as a prospect but that tweener tag just worries me a little. Personally I see him going within the top 8 at worse and keep flipping him Smart and Vonleh in my potential mock drafts.

Randle has the build to be able to play PF being a legit 250lbs and if he did play SF then he’d have an advantage over most opponents in size. 

A lot would depend what the teams drafting in the 4 to 8 range are after as minus Embiid there isn’t a lot of front court size in the draft apart from someone like Vonleh until you get down towards about number 20, so Vonleh would have high draft value and Randle if he is a legit NBA PF would also have very high draft value too.

If Giannis at the Bucks is still growing then he coul become one hell of a point forward given his size.

 

 

 

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