Should the Raptors still go after Pau?
Pau is not happy. Bargnani is going to go somewhere. LA needs more bench guys. Toronto has some good reserve guys.
Pau for Bargs + 1 or 2 bench guys.
This is just one option, but might make Toronto a playoff contender this season.
Valenciunas/ Amir Johnson (C/ PF?)
Gasol (PF/C ?)
I think that could easily make it in the east. I think TO could afford it for a year and a half then they get serious cap space.
For the time being it looks like the Lowry trade chatter has died down and I think it is worth giving him another shot to run the team. Really did feel the absence of Jose last night though.
I still like this idea, but would like to know who else they are talking to about Bargnani. Not making the playoffs this season is fine to me if a better trade for the future comes up. They definately need a PF for the future now.
I personally think they should after this Gay trade. Pau would be an outstanding offensive mentor for their longterm post player, Jonas Val. I think Pau is one of the most skilled big men in the league in terms of post play and out to 18 feet. Jonas is already pretty solid on defense and has the heart and desire to put time in and learn on the offensive end.
Pau is getting a lot of heat for his play this year, but due to nagging injuries and trying to be the ultimate teammate and sacrifice his production for the good of the team. That is just the type of player he is. I think he instantly helps the Raptors and this gets rid of Bargnani, who is just a damper on the Raptors in my opinion.
Also, I would probably add DeRozan in the trade with Bargnani as well. Terrence Ross is their answer long term as a shooting guard. He needs to start playing more to get the ball rolling with this rebuilding process.
That is a pretty solid line-up.
Why would the Lakers want Bargnani?
Bargs would be perfect for the D'Antoni system and would work much better with Howard - Bargnani has no interest in the low post like Pau does, though he can play it if need be. Bargnani gets a lot of flack from Toronto fans, some is for good reason, but he still has tons of talent and scoring ability that LA could use. For a 7 footer he has lots of moblility and skill with the ball.
Why would LA not want Bargnani right now?
Barg is perfect for LA. I think DeRozen and Barg for Pau is a little much though. I feel like they can get away with giving up less, and that would allow them to have Ross or DeRozen as a 6th man for the time being, which is pretty good.
They'll probably look into moving DeRozen at some point though since he has a pretty big contract.
Derozan won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Ross will be the man in a few seasons, but for right now Gay and Derozan is the best wing combo they have had since Carter was there.
At the same time, with his contract he is not untradable.
Let me try my hand in it: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=avzwe2w
Toronto trades- Bargnani, Kleiza, Gray
Toronto gets- Pau Gasol
Why- They get Pau to help make playoff pushes this year and next and mentors Jonas.
Boston trades- Courtney Lee, Fab Melo, Jason Terry
Boston gets- Marcin Gortat and Steve Blake
Why- They get their future C who helps now and a PG to hold down the fort for this year.
LA Lakers trade- Pau Gasol, Steve Blake
LA Lakers get- Bargnani, Jason Terry, Linas Kleiza
Why- Bargnani could be a better fit. Jason Terry gives them shooting. Kleiza could be a rotation player but was needed for salary reasons.
Phoenix trades- Gortat
Phoenix gets- Courtney Lee, Aaron Gray, Fab Melo, picks.
Why- Gortat isn't part of the future and they need to rebuild. Gray can play for cheap while Melo develops and Courtney Lee is a good young player.
Now this isn't perfect I don't think and cases could be made why it's bad for all teams.
Phoenix may not be getting enough in return. The Lakers look like they make out great assuming Bargs fits like many think. Boston doesn't give up much to get Gortat. Toronto sheds some bad contracts.
Anyway I was just mostly bored and tried to think of something to pass time. According to the machine it doesn't make anyone much better or worse.
Let me know what you guys think. :)
Toronto has been in talks with Boston and LA. Boston has been in talks with Phoenix about Gortat for sure.
Obviously it will never happen exactly as predicted, but something like this is not unbelievable to me.
Kleiza could be hard to move though, with his contract and injury. But he is a solid bench guy who LA could use. Very usefull in stretching the floor. LA could easily go to constant stretch 4 (Bargs and Kleiza), play inside out with Howard, Nash shoots and facilitates, Kobe shoots - slashes - passes - etc.
I actually hate the Lakers, but would be very interested in seeing that offence. Very interesting.
I have a hard time seeing Boston get rid of two strong backcourt players in Lee and Terry in light of Rondo's injury, especially with only Steve Blake coming back the other way...
True enough. I could see them moving out either Bass or Sullinger instead of one of the guards in which case they might get a little more in return. With Gortat in the mix one of their bigs would be expendable.
Haha. Like I said it isn't a perfect trade. You could maybe add another guard to Boston or take out Lee and put Sullinger and another filler. Lee was needed to dump salary for the trade to work. Didn't think Phoenix would want Bass and his contract. Phoenix is probably already getting screwed a bit in my trade. Haha
What if they sent Bargs and Fields for Gasol?
I don't think TO would have a problem moving Field's contract if anyone was interested. But I still think Fields has lots of value as a player and they might need to get a little extra back (minor role player or a late pick).
If LA still wants to pair Josh Smith with D12, maybe three team deal with Atl. Smith/Korver to LA, Gasol to TO, and Bargnani contract to ATL ONLY and only if they sent either Derozan or Ross to ATL. I posted a rant before that Raptors fans on here wanted it all, w/o giving up anything, only to see them get Gay for almost nothing. But Gasol would mean so much to that team that I think they should almost be willing to move Ross if it also meant ridding themselves of Bargnani. I know Atl has a lot of cap space, but its no good if we cannot sign anyone with it. I'm not willing to put all our eggs in one basket hoping Howard signs home, which I think he'll prefer Brooklyn or Dallas, even LA, over Atl.
Gasol would only be a short term piece - though a ver good one. Definately not worth Bargnani and Derozan. And again Ross ain't going anywhere unless it is in a package for a star player in his prime.
Unfortunately I don't get to see many Raps games so I don't have a great idea of the way Bargnani plays... For those that get to see Toronto frequently, if traded to LA, what will surprise Lakers fans? I know he can shoot the rock and doesn't play much defense. But can he pass? That's the value Pau is providing the Lakers right now, so if he has a nice feel for the game I could see him fitting the D'Antoni system very well.
This is a great question because Bargnani has so much talent it is crazy. Problem has been not taking advantage of his skill level, and maybe taking the easy rout and not giving the effort all the time.
A) Straight up deffence. Yes I said it. Raptors fans have seen how lousy a job he can do with respect to defensive rotation - especially as the anchor in the middle. But one on one he has the length and footworkto to guard size and quickness when he wants to. In LA Howard would be the anchor.
B) He actually is a great passer, and when he is at his best he can make his team better. Problem this year was his team started out pretty bad all around and he really forced his game, pretty much shooting anytime he had the ball. Don't see that as an issue with better players around him.
C) Ball handling. One of the best ball handlers I have ever seen at his size. Has some pretty sweet moves to drive to the hoop from the three point line in about 2 dribbles.
D) Can guard the pick and roll. This season he was absolutely horrible at it. But last year he would show hard enough off the pick and roll to drive points guards right out of the play. Hope that version shows up again.
Basically all his weeknesses stem from apparnet lack of effort or intensity. When he was locked in (especially last year) was was absolutely unguardable. Unfortunately there are only so many times TO fans can handle regression in his game.
When he gets back on the floor next week I'm really interested to see which version shows up.
Thanks for the info brew meister, that's exactly what I was looking for. I guess the next relevant question, with regard to your comments on effort, is does he start for LA? Clark has looked really good for them, showing more shooting ability and basketball IQ than I previously gave them credit for... So if D'Antoni treats Bargnani's spot in the rotation like he has for Pau, is Bargnani going to lose interest and stop playing defense? Or will playing for a contender keep him locked in?
He definately starts, but would probably take to a bench role more than Pau is right now.
I think in the right system with the right guys he can still shine. Keep in mind last season he was actually Toronto's most important defensive player and a big reason they improved so much.
One weird issue for me was that he put on 15 lbs over the offseason to get stronger. But that is not his game, and certainly did not get him more rebounds. May have been a mistake and partial reason for him not getting to his spots as well on D this year. By the way, when he is in position he is a good rebounder. Again though, it is not his game.
One last thing to keep in mind. He is a very streaky shooter. Almost like a power hitter in base ball. Can go very cold at time, but when he gets hot it is rediculous. Probably has the longest range of any shooter in the league. He is literally in range anywhere past the half court line.
Basically for me as a Toronto fan (and a Bargnani fan) you just can't play as well as he did last year and come out so flat this year. Too big of a letdown for even myself to handle. I think he needs a new team and city to take his game hopefully to the next level.
if for some reason BC decides to go after pau i'd like to get a pg in the mix as well. probably chris duhon since he makes a little less than steve blake. toronto only has 2 pg's atm. i like lucas's energy off the bench but we still need that 3rd pg incase of injury.
i think duhon would make sense so that LA can keep blake for his outside shooting and young morris
Another PG would be nice at this point. Lucas is a solid 3rd stringer, a decent back up, but if for whatever reason Lowry goes down for a few games yikes! Jose Calderon he is not.
I'm sure they would be able to bring in someone half decent with all the wing players they have to unload. But I don't think they are desperate or anything.
As long as it means the lakers get rid of metta
I can see why Toronto would want pau but why would LA want bargnani? Just because he can spread the floor a little? Jamison and Clark have done a good job at that already and Clark plays really solid defense unlike bargs.
Also this eliminates a lot of the Lakers cap room after next season. Bargnani isn't worth 11 mil a year. I'd take matt Bonner over him any day. This trade would only add salary and a temporary fit to the Lakers. If Dwight leaves in FA than they are stuck with Jordan hill and bargnani as their two best front court players for next season.
With Dwight injured I don't expect pau to go anywhere until after the season. Heck with josh smith unhappy I'm sure LA could probably land him for pau if they play it cool till the deadline. So I'm not sure that bargnani plus an overpaid Landry fields or anyone else not named Terrence Ross is good value.