Should the Raptors relocate??
Should the NBA leave one of the biggest markets in North America with a huge corporate base that fills a money making modern arena? Really? That is the question. For Vegas (one trick pony city that has been crushed by this recession),KC (tiny and dying city),San Diego (small corporate base),Baltimore (slowly becoming nothing more than a DC suburb),Cinnci (tiny and dying city),or Seattle (no arena)?
Also no FA wants to play there, but part of their problems stem from poor free agent signings. Brilliant.
OK the fans are loyal & they have a good arena,& make money, but how are they going to keep their own guys or sign FA without overpaying when no one else will like with Hedo, I Wasn't trying to take a shot at the fans Im just saying every good player they they get leave the first chance they get.
Both Wince and CB ( sort of ) resigned max deals with the Raptors. So how exactly is it that they can't resign good players? As for free agency, in the 15 year or so history of the franchise, they've only really had money to spend twice. One time they got Hakeem and the other they got Turk. Did they overpay? Sure. But what team doesnt "overpay" in the free agent market ( see almost every unrestricted FA contract signed in the last two decades for proof)? Overpaying has to do with poor management and nothing else...something this team has had plenty of. If the team had been in decent shape to compete, Bosh would have probably resigned in a heartbeat.
And Stern will have to be dead before he'd allow a team with as much money and in such a large market to move to one of those little towns you mentioned in your op. There are probably 12- 15 teams more likely to relocate than the Raptors.
I'm sorry to say this bkb77 but you are an idiot. Toronto is not even the smallest market in the NBA, and most players love coming here, its just that we have bad management. We consistently have great attendance through the years, and it helps the NBA money wise, having a team outside the United States.
Wow! Keeping it classy up in Canada, eh churchboy1 and TaylorCondrin? It doesn't matter how large the Toronto market ranks. Just look at Atlanta losing its NHL team. If Seattle agrees to build a new arena I would relocate the team to the Emerald City. Its the National Basketball Association not North American Basketball Association.
Are you kidding me? This is the worst thread I have ever read! I don't want come around as patriotic but, Toronto is the top 4 cities (population wise) in North America, we have 5 million people. The only cities ahead of Toronto are New York, Los Angeles and probably Chicago. MLSE is owns the Toronto Raptors and these guys are loaded and make so much money! Whenever the Raptors' play, the arena is NEVER empty unlike other places. The Raptors have an amazing fanbase and great support from management. On top of that, you have the only team in Canada which is home to a market of 30 million people! I'm pretty sure if you ask LeBron if he would rather party in Salt Lake City, Charlotte, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, Portland, San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Philadelphia or Toronto, I will bet you a million dollar that he'll say Toronto. Toronto can give New York, LA, Chicago a run for its money. So you're telling me the Raptors should move? Not a chance bucko.
Actually, the problem with their free agent woes isn't due to the city itself, but upper management (not BC, but the owners- MLSE) who owns the Raptors.
MLSE (Maple Leafs Sports Enterprise) has been known to only care about profits and not as much on the talent of team they field. the hockey team Leafs, for example was unable to equip themselves with talent to surround former captain Matt Sundin prior to Brian Burke's hiring as the GM due to MLSE limiting resources for him to spend on. Likewise for the Raptors back with VC, and now Bosh (less so due to salary caps now)
For baseball, once Roger Comm bought the BlueJays (MLB), they opened up the payroll with the dreams to get their team back to champion standards of 1994, but the money was ill-spent by then GM JP Riccardi and has the team commit 50million in payroll on a few players (Halladay the only one well-spent, Burnnett, BJ Ryan (now bought out), Wells, Rios (waviered and claimed) and Frank Thomas (released with 9million owed)
Upper management and poor decisions are the major reason that kept free agents from all sorts of sports from signing with Toronto with the exception to CFL.
sorry, I know I ran off on a tangent here.
But the point is, while professional leagues are still business. You also need to field a good team to retain fans that keeps going there, no matter how loyal the fanbase are, there can only be so much they can take.
bkb77 says:
"canadian fans dont care about bball"
and:
"I Wasn't trying to take a shot at the fans"
lol, that first line sure looks like you were taking a shot at the fans...
Toronto is a major market and is an organization that has shown a willingness to spend the big bucks (albeit sometimes overpaying for talent). They will not be moving anytime soon. If the Jazz can consistantly win in the western conference then Toronto wouldn't have too much trouble keeping their top players if they were a contender.
I've always said, MLSE won't take the Leafs and Raptors seriously, in regards to spending for superstar players as long there are butts in the seats. Leaf and Raptor fans won't boycott the team, so as long as MLSE is getting a profit each year they won't spend big.
Facts:
1) Toronto Raptors is a profitable franchise (while quite a lot of teams in the NBA are taking losses every year).
2) Toronto is a much better basketball market than a lot of the American cities (maybe because it is the only NBA team in Canada, the fan base is national-wide)
3) Raptors fans are among some of the most die-hard fans in the NBA
4) If you check RealGM, the Raptors board is the most active board. Even Bill Simmons pointed out the Raptors fans are all over the internet.
Bonus Notes:
Raptors fans included Samuel L. Jackson and Kevin Durant!!! Kevin Durant recently disclosed himself as a Raptors fan because Wince Harder (in his Raptors days) was one of his favorite players as a kid.
You are probably misguided by the American Media that could care less about what happens in Canada. You are delusional to think Toronto is not a good market.
The reason why Toronto could not retain the super stars have more to do with the incompetence of the Toronto Raptors GMs than the city itself or the fans.
Even BC wasn't much of a good GM. The way how he constantly overpaying average players have completely destroyed any chance for the Raptors to be a serious championship contender.
The Raptors can barely make playoff under BC's management.
MLSE may be all about profits, but it would be willing to spend if the Raptors are anywhere near a championship (which it never did). They actually have the money to spend and would spend over the luxury tax threshold if the Raptors can actually be a REAL champion contender (I think BC actually mentioned about this before). However, with the current situation, it is hard to see the Raptors to get anywhere close, so there's no point for MLSE to take profit hit by going over the luxury tax threshold.
They built the team the wrong way. If BC actually went all out and ignored the luxury tax threshold, the Raptors would probably be in similar situation as the Dallas Mavs. Ten years of playoff, a few years of champion contention, yet haven't won anything. The biggest problem with the Mavs is that the #1 player, Dirk, is indeed a great 2nd fiddle. The same thing can be said about Chris Bosh. CB4 is a great 2nd fiddle. He's Robin that cannot take the role of Batman.
you said it. blinded by the american media which is forever taking potshots at those north of the border.
Terrible suggestion that the raps should relocate... i think TO's fans 'imbraise' a whole lot more than in most NBA cities. Sort out the front office and we'd have a chance.
bkballer, your coming across as ignorant, self-absorbed, and frankly unintelligent
im not gonna name any more facts as to why toronto should stay because everyone above me has taken care of that (die hard fans, great fan base, etc.) it is your time to now think back to the last time you were honestly offended by Canada...cant think of 1? no surprise. You sir are a biased bigot
Everyone is taking about the jazz winning in a small market, YEAH WELL THE JAZZ HAVE HALL-OF-FAMER JERRY SLOAN, WHO DOES THE RAPTORS HAVE LEADING THEM. Every one is bashing me for this & I realize alot of you are raptor fans, but the facts remain you guys draft good player(VC,T-Mac,CB4) but after a few years & offers of more money to stay in Canada, they still leave to go somewhere else for less money, Now I know it's about winning but if VC,T-mac,& Bosh played together for the past 6 years thats a pretty damn good team,not to mention you had the 1st overall pick a few years ago & could have gotten B.Roy, So you have had the talent, it comes down to players dont want to play & live in canada.
Raptors were 14th in attendance and they weren't even a playoff team. They averaged more fans per home game than the Heat, Magic, Suns. Bobcats and Bucks who were all playoff teams. The Magic and Suns played in the conference finals. If the fans are still filling the seats, don't move it.
Unlike the other Canadian franchise that was there (Vancouver ring any bells) Toronto fans are pretty damn loyal and they don't get treated as a novelty compared to the hockey teams. The only reasons that Toronto has trouble attracting free agents is 1...its damn far away and 2 the taxes are rather high in Canada.
Heres the problem, the raptors play in canada, that is a major disadvantage,canadian fans dont care about bball, they love hockey,no FA wants to go & live in canada, & any star they get wants to leave. The best thing for the franchise would be to relocate to an American city,who would inbraise them, maybe Vegas,KC,San Diego,Baltimore,Cinnci,or Seattle(stern did promise that they would get a teamback in 4 yrs if arenas fixed-up). Just a thought, the league may have to switch a team east to west or west to east to make it work. But thats my pitch,sorry canadakush!