Serious Discussion Please, About Nikos Pappas, And Why The NBA Is Apparently Not Interested In Him
Nikos Pappas has played in 3 world tournaments already in his life.
First, he played at the World High School Championship. This is a tournament for players age under-17. The teams are comprised of all-star selections of the best high school players in each country.
Pappas led Greece to win the tournament. Winning the title of best high school aged basketball team in the world. Pappas was also the leading scorer of the tournament, and the tournament MVP. He scored a record 40 points in the final (40 minute long game).
One year later, Pappas then played at the under-18 world tournament games in Germany, at the Albert Schweitzer Tournament. These teams are also selected out of the all star teams of the best high school players in countries from around the world.
This time, he once again led Greece to the world title. He was again named the MVP. He again led the tournament in scoring. He also led Greece to a victory over Team USA's high school all-stars at the tournament. Other recent MVPs of this tournament include Nicolas Batum (NBA player) and Ersan Ilyasova (NBA player).
Then, the next year, he was selected to play the Nike Hoops Summit, to play with the best international and American NBA prospects from around the world, as picked by NBA scouts and European coaches.
He played well in that game, and helped the internationals to beat Team USA. It was the first time the internationals beat Team USA in 10 years.
Next, Pappas played at another youth world tournament. At the FIBA Under-19 World Championship. He was Greece's best player in the tournament. Greece won the silver medal. They lost by 8 points to Team USA (88-80) in the final, with Pappas as their leader.
And they were playing the game without their starting 7 foot center, who was injured. Pappas played well. He was named into the world All-Tournament's best five players selection.
Along with him in the best five, were:
Gordon Hayward (NBA player) and Tyshawn Taylor (projected to be drafted).
As if this is not enough, the next year he continued with even more success. The next year, he was named the best player Under-22 of the Greek League, at the age of 19. To put this into proper perpestive, Nick Calathes (Florida Gators) finished in THIRD place, and he was 21.
This is the same Nick Calathes that had ALREADY been drafted by the NBA the previous year.
Then, Pappas ket going. Later that summer, at the FIBA Europe Under-20 Championship, where the best players in the under-20 age group from all over Europe compete.........he was the leading scorer of the tournament and was named into the tournament's best five players.
Other players in the best five included: Nikola Mirotic (already drafted), fellow Greek player Kostas Papanikolaou (projected to be drafted now - like I said he should have been here all along), and Andrew Albicy (who appears on many mock draft lists).
Now, we can take this one step further...........this season, at the age of 21, Pappas had already become the best player on PAOK, which is a Eurocup Greek League team. A team which had a roster built to be a Eurocup team, and he was already at 21 the best player of the whole team.
This is like so rare in Europe that it's hard to even come up with many other examples of this at such a young age. It's RARE, very rare for that to be the case in Europe.
Now, to push it a little more to the point, I kept saying here that Papanikoloau should be drafted and everyone made fun of me. Now after NBA scouts saw him play just 2 games, he appears in mock lists. OK, so I was right.
I have said also about Sloukas and Mantzaris. Well, in Europe they are saying that the NBA scouts were already asking about them and getting details about their contract status and buyouts and things like that..........so I was right about that they should be on NBA radar. This is after NBA scouts saw them play just 2 games.
Well, Pappas is better than any of them. He is the biggest Greek talent of that young golden generation that they call "The Golden Greeks" in Europe. Pappas was called "The Golden Boy of the Golden Greeks".
Papanikoloau now, according to all the buzz is going to be drafted, and yet, Pappas is BETTER THEN HIM. Still, Pappas appears literally on not a single mock draft that I can find anywhere. And no one is projecting him to get drafted.
So my question is how in the hell can the guy that was the top player in the world at age group 17, the top player in the world at age group 18, one of the five best in the world at age group 19, and one of the 5 best in Europe at the age group 20 - not be even on NBA radar and not be drafted?
How can he be already at age 21 the best player of a Eurocup team, and not even be on a mock draft anywhere? Why was he considered better than Nick Calathes, at a younger age in the Greek League (after Calathes had ALREADY been drafted), yet he can't get into the radar of NBA teams?
You see, all the things I said about Papanikoloau, Sloukas, Mantzaris were true and right. Because the NBA scouts saw them and now they are with a chance to get drafted. But before that, they were zeros to the NBA. Everyone here amde up a million lame excuses and nonsense to explain this away, none of which made any sense and none of which were true.
This is proven correct,a s I said, by how after NBA scouts saw them in just 2 games and were impressed.
But, here we have THE BEST player of Europe in his generation, in Pappas, and NOTHING of interest from the NBA. I have emailed some European scouts that work for big European clubs and asked them about Pappas and why they think the NBA is not interested in him. They have no clue why.
Every one of them said the same thing. That he is by far the best young European player of his generation. And, right now, big European clubs are all fighting over getting him. He has big offers from both Spanish Euroleague club Malaga and Greek Euroleague club Olympiacos.
Olympiacos is said to be offering him a 3 year $3.5 million contract. Do the NBA talent evaluators really think that just any 21 year old kid will get offers like this in Europe? Seriously? Really? VERY FEW NBA draft pciks get that much on their first big contract in Europe, even AFTER they were drafted.
And if the Euroleague champions want you, the team that just beat Kirilenko, Krstic, Teodosic, Siskauskas, Khyrapa, and a bunch of guys that NBA teams are said to be trying to sign right now like, Shved, Gordon, Vorontsevich, Kaun and so forth.......then he MUST be a good player. Otherwise why would Olympiacos want him, with the level that their other young players are attaining. Why bring him in to take away playing time of them if he has no serious prospects as a player?
Why offer him MORE money than Papanikoloau makes (remember he's on the mocks now, like I said he should be all along)?
Mock drafts are not real draft : they are just the reflect (imperfect) of what some websites think on some prospects. But it is a personal feeling based on imperfect information : we don't know what nba scouts really think about prospects. I think nba scouts know sloukas pappas papanikolau... maybe they don't know they perfectly, maybe they underrate them... who knows what they truly think ??? you ???
but you can not just say "I TOLD YOU"... cause you told us the same things about almost every greek prospect : and afterall it's kind of normal the nba scouts begin to have interest in some young prospects (papanikolau, mantzaris, sloukas even printezis) only after they succeeded in euroleague... they also have to see what a prospect can do on the court at the best level of play and not only drew some prediction (almost bets...) on young players, estimated talented.
you still ask for the same answers... you put to much importance in simple mock drafts that don't reflect nothing at this point. Maybe some nba team have already pappas in its board (nobody of us and you know).
MOCK DRAFTS ARE NOT REAL and THE DRAFT IS A LOTTERY / GAME (based on imperfect information, buzz, different needs, risk / reward calculation, luck, friendship / love, managers.... and so much more irrational factors).
Hey EB did you notice how good is teodosic and how he never got a shot in the nba ?... some players got their shot some others not... but that's not always about talent.
Yes, Teodosic, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, Siskauskas, Bourousi......and many others were not drafted. I would say 95% of the best European players were never drafted, while many guys that were scrubs were drafted.
It is almost insane to me that Bourousis was not drafted.
I have been saying this for a long time : Bourousis should have got a shot with a contender. With the lack of big men he could have been a cheap steal for a team like boston. If kwame can steal 7M to GS bourousis with a 3M contract would be a bargain...
He will be on the radar of NBA teams. The performance of young European players in the Euroleague final four will have scouts taking notice of him. Might get into the 2nd round. I've done some searching on what is said about him on the net and after going past all your posts on various forums (LOL) people are praising his IQ and feel for the game but worried about his athletic limtations/lateral quickness on the defensive end.
NBA teams draft on star potential.
In general, if one player is a total idiot, who most of the time hurts his team more than helps it, but has incredible athleticism and occasional moments of brilliance where he is dominant, and another player is unathletic, but is very smart, always plays efficiently and helps his team win, and gets the most out of his talent, NBA teams will always draft the idiot. The thinking is that the idiot might get his head straight and become a star, but the unathletic will never grow a new body and become a star. At best the unathletic player will become a role player, which teams need of course, but they can always sign one in free agency without "wasting" a pick.
I know Pappas well. He does not have the physical profile of an NBA star, and will not be drafted. He's a very smart, low mistake player who plays efficiently and helps his teams win. But he's slow, and doesn't have elite outside shooting or passing to make up for it. He's more of a volume scorer on deceptive moves in the paint. That doesn't translate well to the NBA. He's probably a better player for europe than most guards that we be drafted ahead of him, but at least those players have a tiny chance at becoming NBA stars, whereas Pappas does not.
It's because he's Greek. Bias.
Euro Baller, Aran Smith did a write up about a few Greek players a couple of days ago! Have you seen it yet?
Are you sure his current contract or intentions aren't playing a part in this? Many NBA teams will not look at players too closely, if they feel he doesn't have much interest in playing in America, or his European or Asian club has him wrapped up in a deal that would be tough to buy out.
NBA teams will be patient with that kind of situation if the player is a top 5 or 10 prospect, but if he is a projected 2nd rounder, it might take a player with higher upside to get a team to be patient and let him continue to play in Europe for a couple years.
Also, to be honest, I feel the last year's trend of 5 of the last 10 picks being foreign players that many scouts were relatively unfamiliar with leaves no player in Europe, Asia or the Middle East with a 0 chance of being drafted, IMO. Pappas may not be on mocks, but neither were Tanguy Ngombo, Chu Chu, or Adam Hanga.
Just because he's not on mocks now, doesn't mean there isn't a chance an NBA team will take a shot on him in the late 2nd round.
the fran vazquez episode was also a bit scary for nba teams which can't afford wasting lottery picks (and even 1st round ones) on players who won't ever come cause they just don't want to...
furkan aldemir deserves more than just a mid/late 2nd round but buyout issues are concerning (as mirotic deserved lottery pick in my mind if you talk only about talent).
players from greece just get over looked
"I would say 95% of the best European players were never drafted, while many guys that were scrubs were drafted."
The elite clubs in Greece and Russia have little incentive to hand minutes to young kids just because they are young. They have their system of developing young players and they believe in it. Whether it meshes with the NBA Draft is not a major concern for them, nor should it be. Alexey Shved is undoubtedly a talented player, but up until this year wasn’t really playing any sort of prominent role. The most a person could have seen him was when he was loaned out to play with Dynamo a couple years back, and even then it wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire to shoot 44 percent and 29 percent from three while not being the primary point on a middling SuperLeague team. It is understandable why the picture was not clear enough on him for a team to draft him. Performing at the U20,U18,U16 etc is all fine and good, but it isn't pro ball. I also find it completely understandable why clubs after seeing CSKA Moscow dominate Europe the way they did now might want to sign him. Milos Teodosic while Serbian spent his “draft years” with Olympiacos playing minimally in the Euroleague in the year prior to his automatic eligibility. The year after going undrafted, he busts out. It happens. Nobody is necessarily wrong, it just happens. It doesn't mean Teodosic can't play, and it doesn't prevent an NBA team from pursuing him when his contract expires.
Now, there is no arguing against the junior career Nikos Pappas has had. For his age, he has always been among the most successful in Europe. Do you want to draft strictly off that? What about the more turnovers than assists and mediocre shooting from distance in each of the past two A1 seasons. On top of that, factor in the possibility that Greece will be competing in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament in early July (2-8), which could very well mean that Pappas, Papanikolaou, and Sloukas will be training with their National Team as opposed to working out, interviewing, and stating their interest in the NBA to clubs that could be interested in drafting them. Those are just the tradeoffs of life. It isn’t as if those guys will be unable to make money playing basketball if they forego the predraft process, and it would not surprise me if in those couple weeks leading up to the draft are spent training for Olympic qualifying. If you want to make it out like there is some kind of conspiracy or anti-Greek sentiment, feel free but it is not the case. The players and clubs make their own decisions on playing time and priorities.
I'm no expert but, you have to think about other things like: does he (Nikos Pappas) have interest in playing in the NBA? Joewolf made a good point about contract situations and his own intentions. I mean, you can say all you want about his abilities, skills, and potential, but at the end of the day, if he doesn't have any intention on leaving then there's really nothing to argue about.
1. Pappas is a FREE AGENT. He has no buyout and not eevna contract with anyone. He is waiting to after the draft to even sign with anyone.
2. Pappas has said numerous times in Greek media that his absolute main priority is to play in the NBA.
3. Pappas has always been available to workout with NBA teams, and in fact, has before not played in Greece's training camp to do so.
4. Pappas put up excellent numbers in the Greek League this season. Anyone saying otherwise has no concept of what constitutes good success there in the situation he was in. If you think the guys that are on the mock could put up similar numbers in PAO then you are simply totally wrong.
5. Yes, I saw Aran's write up for Sloukas and Papanikoloau. He described Papanikoloau as not being athletic (totally false claim). He described him as not being a lock down defender or quick laterally (false claims).
He also didn't even mention Mantzaris, who according to Olympiacos managers, many NBA scouts have been calling about him. Didn't even get a mention from Aran.
6. It's really a moot point anyway, due to the issue that Papanikoloau is now on the mock, yet he isn't as good as Pappas is, and he wouldn't be as good in the NBA as Pappas would be either.
Papanikola is very athletic for eurolegue, but not for NBA standards. He has good leaping ability when ha has space, but lacks explosivnes, agility and is not very flud to be considerd athletic player by NBA standards. His latheral quicknes is decent, but he plays defens from his energy and reading game. Overall he could defenetly have decent carer in smart team like Spurs who like to use cornerfillers and spo tp shooters like him.
Papas defenetl had most basketball talent from Greek 90. generation, but he just doesn't fit in NBA game. In Nike Hoops summit that was evident when he had many problems create his own shoot, handling ball and staying infrot of his man. Us guards were killing International guards, it was Moteijunas, Macvan, Zubcic and Seraphin who did job for In. team. Zubcic and Moteijunas took lot PG duties from Papas and rest of guards, even being forced to play some pick betwen them while gurad while cut away from game
Sloukas has good speed and some good pg abilitys for nba like his detirmination in penetration so he might find his role there, but that's very questionable
Mantrazis? I highly doubt he is any kind of NBA material
Beaing mad some reporter didn't metnion some Greek players doesn't mean anything. Clubs have their own scouts who scout players, I highly dobt NBA GM's are drafting players based on draft sites scoutings. If any of them do, they should get fierd. So no need to vory about that. If any GM likes some Greek player he will draft him based on his own and his scouts opinion
European Baller, how can you say those are false claims? Are you an actual scout? No, you're just some random guy who posts about Greek players. Frankly after searching for Pappas mixtapes on Youtube, I see nothing special at all, he can be a fringe roleplayer, but he is a jack of all trades, mix in the fact his age and limited athletic ability I don't see how he can be an actual NBA starter. No doubt, he will probably get drafted in the 2nd round based on the fact many teams usually like to stash European players.
when did youtube mixtapes become relevat for anything?
Why can't they be, you expect me to watch the full game just to gauge his abilities? They showcase his skills moves, abilities, and even his demeanor on the court. Frankly if you watch enough mixtapes you can guess from the level of competition how fast he actually runs compared to other players, how athletic he is, and usually they throw in jumpshooting ability. I don't know if you would waste an hour of your time to watch a full game for some random guy.
Maybe you are wasting your time, but you can't really get a major idea of how good a player is by mixtapes, other than a feel for his athletic ability and on-court demeanor. A player's ability to rebound, move without the ball, consistently make the right pass, or generally play winning basketball can't be seen through a mixtape. I must say I haven't seen Pappas play at all, so I can't speak about him, I just had to disagree with that statement.
Why can't they be
Because basketball is lot more then some youtube clip. Junk players like James White can look like Michael Jordan on youtube clips. Tape him from right angles and in right moments and he will look even better then MJ. , It isn't realy hard to understand it
Nobady is expecting you to watch something you don't wannt, but you shouldn't then coment player abilitys you never saw in your life
Mantrazis? I highly doubt he is any kind of NBA material.
Olympiacos' manager said that they have gotten more NBA teams calling and asking about the contract situation and buyout of Mantzaris than they have for Papanikolaou, who is listed on the mock draft here. Several NBA teams called to ask for game tapes of him also.