Sacramento - what will/should happen
Will: Either make moronic trade to move up to 2 to take Rubio (although this looks less likely every day) or take Rubio or next best PG at 4. They'll sell the 23rd pick & probably grab a Claver or Jerebko with the 31st pick.
Should: Wait to see if Rubio falls. If he does, great - go ahead and grab him. I hear the knocks, and I'm not 100% on him either, but public opinion in Sacramento will force the Kings to take him if he falls to them at 4. Plus I can live with rolling the dice on him - his potential is very high.
(Side Note: Sacramento fans are enthusiastic, but just not that knowledgeable. They've all been hearing Rubio's name for months now, so they want him without really knowing anything about him. In an online comment section for a Bee article regarding Rubio yesterday, there were suggestions as to what the Kings should give to move up - Kmart, pick 4 & 23 was my favorite, but there were several that were equally stupid. Bottom line 90-95% of people in Sac have the knowledge level of a casual fan, but over 50% think they're freaking experts & are dying to share their opinion. Hopeless.)
But I digress. So if Rubio is there, just grab him & cross your fingers. If not, they need to move back in the draft. There ought to be teams interested in Curry, Harden, Thabeet, Hill and/or Evans. The Kings can move back and still grab a top-tier PG.
I like trading pick 23, but not for cash. If they take cash for that pick, as a Kings fan I will feel jobbed because that would mean we traded Artest for Donte Green & cash. That's not just a downgrade on the court, that's a falling off the cliff. Instead, I would put feelers out to teams with multiple 2nd rounders like Portland, Detroit & San Antonio. If any of them want someone bad enough to move up, the Kings should jump at the chance to add an extra pick or two.
At pick 31, picking Claver or Jerekbo makes sense. Personally I'm rooting for Claver.
Taking a PG other than Rubio at 4 is stupid because I truly believe that Flynn, Jennings, Evans & Holliday are all very close talent-wise in the eyes of the Kings. If there are teams coveting other guys & you can move down, still get one of the top guys on your list and add value to do so, why wouldn't you? In my opinion, if you want a PG in this draft, the first inclination should be to move back, not up. The fact that there are so many (20 could go - 1/3 of the entire draft) means that people are at points going to want to move up to get non-PGs and the PGs are likely to slip. That being said, don't miss out on getting a guy you like, but there has to be a better way to do it than to take a guy too high and have to pay him more in salary, especially when you could have gotten extra value by moving down.
And cash isn't going to make this team better - bringing in young talent to compete at every position will. Selling the 23rd pick is short-sighted. Make the team better & the cash will come. Sell your picks and suck forever. Seems like an easy choice to me.
Plus, moving back in the draft plays into the strength of Geoff Petrie, and that is player evaluation. Too bad he's such a crappy draft strategist that it'll never happen.
" Too bad he's such a crappy draft strategist that it'll never happen. "
getting martin, garcia, thompson and hawes was a mistake to you i bet. come on dude. the only bad pick he's made in the last 5 years was douby. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiinkk.
He never said he was a bad talent evaluator, he said hes a crappy draft strategist, which he is. Read before you criticize.
"Plus, moving back in the draft plays into the strength of Geoff Petrie, and that is player evaluation. "
I think Rubio is not the best choice for Sacramento. I think If I was Sacramento, I would move down and wait.
I posted this trade before but i dont know if it would work
4th pick, Kenny Thomas and Kevin Martin for Danny Granger, 13th pick, Jammal Tinsley and 2nd round pick
I think doing that and trying to add another PG at 13 (Teague) or 23 (Mills) could boast this team.
13- Jeff Teague
23- Taj Gibson
31- Victor Claver
53- Josh Carter (someone who can shoot)
That isn't draft strategy, that's player evaluation & getting good players at lower picks. Or in other words, exactly what I was suggesting. It's the moving around in the draft that he doesn't do well & that is what I was talking about with that comment, not his player selection.
Paaaaaayyyyy attention (and think too - couldn't hurt).
I like Martin and the Kings would be reluctant to trade him, but they probably would to get Granger. That being said, I can't imagine Indiana wants to trade Granger for much of anything.
I need you to defend your " It's the moving around in the draft that he doesn't do well & that is what I was talking about with that comment, not his player selection." comment. When do you recall last of him moving around in the draft? or is your point that he makes no attempt to move around?
rubio's gonna bring the cash. rubio = more fans = more money = maloofs a bit more happy.
Sorry for not answering the question you didnt put down.
To be honest, Sacramento is really not throwing alot of signals that there gonna move up. So I think If Rubio falls to him, take him. I think Rubio could be good but he has a huge learning curve in my opinion. I think there is 3 way to go here : BEST, SAFE OR UPSIDE. BEST would be Rubio. If you want to take the best PG in this draft, you would be willing to move up for Rubio and except for a couple of pieces (Martin and Thompson) are for sale. SAFE is Jonny Flynn. You dont want to move up but you want a good PG. Flynn fits perfectly and could make everyone better and could reconnect with Donte Greene (who you have high hopes for). UPSIDE is Jrue Holiday. Holiday can be a good PG IMO with a shooter and a couple big man to play with. He could make this team good and he's already commited on Defense.
I think they are looking toward UPSIDE.....
Rubio better play D for them or else the team will be another cellar West team with offensive talent.
Those 2 big men are unproven and not exactly Robinson and Duncan.
This team needs a SF too Nocioni doesn't cut it, at least overrated guys Shareef, Kenny Thomas, Bobby Jackson.
Imagine they package Kevin Martin with bad contracts like Udrih, Garica, Nocioni for some picks and young talent.
Not likely so this team will have a good chance at the top pick next year.
sacramento had the lowest fan attendence in 08-09 even with their big men duo and martin. they seem the most untouchable in the trade ideas from what i've seen. it would be a mistake not to bring in someone to please the fans. I'd hate to see any of the 3 go, but if it's for the better of the franchise and pleases the fans more, you know?
Holiday brings the Defense so he has the lead
Thompson and Hawes are improving with time (Thompson-2nd season, Hawes-4th season)
Nocioni is ok for now, they need and want Greene to take that spot
Yea, they would be a young team
Are you serious???? How old are you??? Granger is the franchise for the Pacers they are not going to trade him away for almost anyone in the NBA.
If the kings are smart they will move down for a team who really wants Rubio (which could unfortunately be the knicks bc d'antoni loves europeans). Kings have potential to add pieces they can be good in 3-4 years.
But your hyping Rubio up as if he's the golden Child...Flynn can attract fans. Holiday can attract fans. I mean, If you want to go off the Fans attendance...bring in Curry
i tkink Flynns the best fit but i dont know if hes worth taking at 4. maybe they could trade down a couple spots.
Come on now...I just threw out a trade relax...
3-4 years? Tell that to them when there playing in Seattle or Kansas City...Again. And NY wont move up for Rubio because Walsh allowed Dantoini to get his euro pick last year instead of getting the player Walsh loved....Anthony Randolph
rubio's going to bring more fans than flynn or holiday or curry. He brings the similar old days back to life with his passing ability. fans will be excited and curious as well.
rubio is a TRADITIONAL pg. Rubio is talked about..wayyyyyyy more than flynn or curry.
you never know with the knicks as a fan. D'antoni can convince donnie that Ricky Rubio is the greatest thing for his system and can be the next steve nash and the knicks have rubio....god I am not wanting to think that.
Dont say that!!!! You know Walsh and Dantoni are prob talking about it right now
Walsh- What's up mike?
Dantoni- Hey! I was wondering? Can you trade our 8th pick and David Lee...he's not any good.
Walsh- Are you outta your f****** mind? I gave you Dino last year and Im adding Sergio in the Draft. Get out of my office!
Dantoni- Yes sir.
5 min later
Dantoni- Can you please consider it?
Walsh-...........no. Were gonna stay at 8....just get outta here.
Dantoni- When have I ever steered you wrong?
Walsh- around this time last year....I wanted Randolph.
Dantoni- Ok. You win. Never Mind then...
He doesn't even try to move - he just stays where he is & picks. Tell me the last time Petrie moved up to get a guy or moved down to take a player later & add value?
For example, 2 years ago they were much higher on Noah than on Hawes, but made no attempt to move up a couple spots to secure him - just hoped Chicago wouldn't take him. Last year, they liked Thompson when everyone else had him rated much lower. They should have looked into moving down - they might have lost Thompson, but likely they wouldn't have and they add value by moving down. Plus, again because I think very highly of Petrie as a player evaluator, if Thompson last year or whoever you like 1st this year isn't available, I trust him to still bring in a solid player. It's a roll of the dice for sure, but you have to be willing to play at least occasionally.
Now it's a different story if there is one guy that is heads and shoulders above the rest & the risk of losing him just isn't worth it. That may have been the case last year with Thompson, although the discrepency in ranking had to make it at least worth looking at. But this year, if Rubio is off the board, they could easily move down anywhere from 2-9 picks and still get a PG they are very high on.
The Kings have 7 guys under contract, one of whom they would loooooove to get rid of in Udrih and the other 6 they want to keep; plus 2 restricted free agents who may or may not return. If money is so tight that they're talking about selling picks, I can't imagine we're going to be big players in free agency. So that means the best way to fill spots & increase the overall level of talent and competition is to move back into a flat draft and try to nab a few diamonds in the rough.
As others pointed out, we're still going to be bad next year no matter what, but what I'm proposing would put us in a good position to improve rapidly if we were able to nab one of the top players next year - which is very likely. The strength of this draft isn't it's talent at the top, but it's parity throughout - if you're a team with a good talent evaluator like Petrie with a strong record of making good picks, why not move down & give him more opportunity to work his magic? We've certainly got the roster space anyway & 2nd round rookies will be much cheaper than just about anyone else we could bring in.
you can't trade lee until he's signed. so in other words, why not just target him and try to sign him instead of having him apart of a trade?????
Because...he's a restricted FA. You would have to put a bid in for him. He can sign to offer sheets but if he signs and NY doesnt wanna match...they can sign and trade to another team
it's only an opinion, that the kings will do better by 15 wins next year, if the core is healthy. garcia being injured at the beginning of the season hindered his gameplay all year. martin dealt with the groin injury...which i can say from experience, it makes everything much more difficult on the court. plus his ankles were bothering him as well.
The kings could go with flynn or curry, but i highly doubt it would bring more fans than rubio. It's a big IF that rubio will drop to 4. i can see memphis shopping him. i can see okc scaring us all and taking him and trade him away.
Bring in a good player(s), Rubio or otherwise.
Build the team the right way & don't panic and succumb to public pressure from the ignorant masses.
Be patient & pick your spots. Next year is when we get our stud player - this year is mostly for role players.
If they do that, they improve quickly & the fans come back, the Maloofons make money & everyone is happy. It's like the difference between a sugary snack & a healthy one. The sugar (Rubio) gets you all amped up, but when he plays like an 18 year old rookie PG, fades quick. The healthy snack gives you energy for the long haul (less noticeable in the short-term maybe, but much better for you in the long), which is what is going to bring the fans back & keep them back.
Dan Peterson is convinced that Ricky Rubio can handle the rigours of the NBA and be successful from the get-go.
The former Italian league coach and Milan-based broadcaster also lashed out at fellow draft entrant Brandon Jennings, responding to the barb by Jennings that Rubio was nothing more than a You Tube fad.
"Ricky Rubio is not overhyped," said Peterson, who broadcast several of Jennings' games last season for Lottomatica Virtus Roma.
"Jennings is overhyped. He has it all backwards. He is all about trying to dominate one-on-one, all concerned with individual talent. I find it hilarious."
Peterson did admit that Jennings' had the physical package to succeed in the NBA, with lightning-quick pace and upside, but thought that the Roma youngster was still not NBA-ready.
Rubio, however, is primed to take over the NBA by storm.
"One of the things that happens in the NBA, everybody has a theory on what a guy can't do. That's all you hear. Sacramento would be very lucky to get Ricky Rubio. It would be a good place for (Rubio), the capital city of California, not too big."
"He is just a terrific player, though he needs to improve his three-point shooting. He gets into the lane, draws fouls, has the whole package. People would love him there. He's a winner."
"I would throw myself in front of a bus for Ricky Rubio. But I would have a hard time having Brandon Jennings on my team. I would send him home."
Meanwhile, the New York Knicks are rumoured to be interested in trading up in the upcoming NBA draft to snag Spanish point guard prodigy.
Just to be clear, I like Rubio. I'm just saying the Kings can't afford to get in a bidding war with ANYONE in order to move up. If Memphis gets nothing from anyone & wants to do something like a 2 & 36 for 4 & 23 swap, great - go for it. The fans will be happy. But trading one of our 6 players other than Green or throwing in an extra pick wholesale is more than we can afford. We've got so few assets, we need to guard them & in the case of the draft, maximize them by trading down when applicable.
I just have a hunch Memphis gets a much better offer than that from someone who can afford to pay more than the Kings. Moving up would likely just end up costing the Kings too much & set them back too far, even if Rubio is as good as advertised.
Oh, and I agree with that dude on Jennings. He doesn't seem like the type of guy that teammates are going to follow - but rather one they'd like to strangle because of his poor attitude & sometimes selfish play. He's the one guy I hope the Kings don't get (and I really don't think they will).
hey piratejp, i meant no disrespect. i agree with you completly about petrie making no attempt to move up. but as a evaulater, he's done a pretty good job.
i do think memphis would get a much better deal elsewhere than sacramento. there will be plenty of teams interested in him.
Other thing, We compare Rubio to Nash...didnt Nash sit on the bench and learn from J-Kidd?
Pirate- didnt i suggest that on my mock?
I think you suggested 2 & 27 for 4 & 23. I don't think Memphis goes for that under any circumstances. Swapping 36 for 27 still isn't likely, but I could at least see them considering that if they didn't get any other offers.
I dont know...This is another reason why i believe this trade wont happen.
I mean what looks like a fair trade for both teams? I mean, either way Memphis fans or Kings fan will be upset. That's why i think Sacramento should just take a PG and stay outta that mess.
No worries - I've always been a big Petrie guy, but it has become more and more obvious over time that he is too cautious at times (look at the coaching fiasco) and in the draft is more content to sit and take someone than be aggresive and try to add value by moving down. But I agree that as a talent evaluator he's top-notch.
Nash was behind kidd for IIRC 2 years before he went to Dallas and shined .. cause in PHX he didn't do squat, I paid attention cause that year I wanted Sac to draft Nash but PHX nabbed him...
This is the first Time Petrie has had a pick below number 7 IIRC and his evaluating has always been great, Heck even Douby was known in the Kings locker as a GREAT practice player, he just could not bring it in game time. Who was to know Rondo would step up like he did, tho having Bostons talent made his life a lot easier.
Last year picking Thompson so early surprised me cause he probably could have gotten him later but he chose safe. Gotta give Kings some credit, its hard to get stars to come to Sacramento, and for 10 years always being at the later part of the draft over and over, or that 2 years in a row Sac didn't even have a first round pick. Its hard to build or stay built until you get a few early picks.
I am very worried for The Kings as a Kings fan at what is going to happen when you have owners now being LA Clipper like cheapskates. Going to be hard to sign anyone in 2010.
cuz their a run n gun team, and a pick and pop with hawes,adn pick n roll with thompson would be very good
Never mind. I didnt read the rest of the conversation. My bad
What this all comes down to is making a big splash, Flynn an others are good names, but no one draws more attention out of PGs than Rubio. If sac-town doesn't make a splash, or draw attention then they wont be in sacramento in the future. Rubio is knocked on for his shot, and a risky transition to the NBA. His defense is very good from what I've seen ( ex. the olympics when he pick pocketed CP3 multiple times). The transition part is scary but he doesn't need to go out an score 25 a night, he will fit the run n gun system perfectly, and be a great point guard for years to come.
It still scares me that sacramento might not get him, I would hate to see them trade up, I feel with the team they have, they can succeed. sure their young and unproven, but every player was at one time or another, even kobe. K-mart from what i hear is stepping up his conditioning this off-season which should help his injury problem, an if he comes back faster and can produce a better shooting percentage like he did two years ago, he compares very well to D-wade. With the right defense (aka a little) they could move back to the bottom of the lottery next year an maybe even make the playoffs two or three years from now.