[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 He led the league in scoring, all guards in rebounds, top in 5 assists, #1 in triple-doubles, 2nd in steals, finished really strong towards the end of the season… 45 wins in the west, which is not bad at all. So why can’t he be considered the best player in the nba? Guys who watched the last two-3 months of the regular season, and watched him play, try to tell me he was not astonishing to watch

 

[GStatesince88Participant]

Everything that you have said is pretty much true, except for the subject title. We all witnessed how impressive Russell was towards the end of the year. We know that he could very well be the best athlete in the NBA. He is definitely in the running for the best PG in the NBA.

To be the best player in the NBA, one must be a great leader. Someone who not only motivates, but also makes teammates better. Russell could work on those two aspects of the game. So while he could arguably be in the conversation for best in the NBA, that honor still belongs to LeBron. 

Westbrook attempts to shoulder too much of the load while being the primary ballhandler. He has a good squad around him to utilize, capable scorers inside and out. With Durant back this upcoming season, and the depth of talent on the team, it will be interesting to see how they share the rock. 

 

 

[GStatesince88Participant]

Everything that you have said is pretty much true, except for the subject title. We all witnessed how impressive Russell was towards the end of the year. We know that he could very well be the best athlete in the NBA. He is definitely in the running for the best PG in the NBA.

To be the best player in the NBA, one must be a great leader. Someone who not only motivates, but also makes teammates better. Russell could work on those two aspects of the game. So while he could arguably be in the conversation for best in the NBA, that honor still belongs to LeBron. 

Westbrook attempts to shoulder too much of the load while being the primary ballhandler. He has a good squad around him to utilize, capable scorers inside and out. With Durant back this upcoming season, and the depth of talent on the team, it will be interesting to see how they share the rock. 

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 um i respectfully disagree. If you watch Westbrook play, he is going as hard as he can and that energy and effort definitely has rubbed off on his teammates. Enes and others were playing the best basketball of their lives last season with Westbrook.

I do see how he tries to shoulder too much of the load though but look at LeBron in the finals… you can say that was the same situation. and i would say that was the best I have ever seen LeBron.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 um i respectfully disagree. If you watch Westbrook play, he is going as hard as he can and that energy and effort definitely has rubbed off on his teammates. Enes and others were playing the best basketball of their lives last season with Westbrook.

I do see how he tries to shoulder too much of the load though but look at LeBron in the finals… you can say that was the same situation. and i would say that was the best I have ever seen LeBron.

[Pro-21Participant]

 Westbrook is at least as good a leader as Durant. Its just that as good as he is, he isn’t a better than Durant. Westbrook made enes kanter look better than he was in my opinion, and he would’ve gotten the thunder to the playoffs if not for injury, possibly won 48-50 games along the way. 

 

I think the top 5 players are

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Anthony Davis/Westbrook

4. Anthony Davis/Westbrook

5. CP3/Harden/Curry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pro-21Participant]

 Westbrook is at least as good a leader as Durant. Its just that as good as he is, he isn’t a better than Durant. Westbrook made enes kanter look better than he was in my opinion, and he would’ve gotten the thunder to the playoffs if not for injury, possibly won 48-50 games along the way. 

 

I think the top 5 players are

1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Anthony Davis/Westbrook

4. Anthony Davis/Westbrook

5. CP3/Harden/Curry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sheltwon3Participant]

 I would take Westbrook over Lebron. Lebron looks better because he plays in the East.

[sheltwon3Participant]

 I would take Westbrook over Lebron. Lebron looks better because he plays in the East.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Totally agree. If OKC and Cleveland traded places, Westbrook definitely could have made the finals in the wack east and the hype would be real

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Totally agree. If OKC and Cleveland traded places, Westbrook definitely could have made the finals in the wack east and the hype would be real

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Whaaaaatttt!!???  Shelton u And skal & Jamal  r Kidding rite??

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Whaaaaatttt!!???  Shelton u And skal & Jamal  r Kidding rite??

[2quick4uParticipant]

"So why can’t he be considered the best player in the nba?"

3 reasons:

1. FG%: you simply can’t be considered the best player in the league having a .426%. not only he can’t be considered the best player in the league but he’ll never win a MVP award unless those numbers rise..michael jordan is considered the best player of all time for some reasons and a big one is because despite averaging 23 shots a game, he averaged .50% in 13 seasons in the league..oh and he has 5mvp awards..in the other hand kobe bryant averaged .45% for 20 attempts per game…and people still wonder why kobe has only won 1 MVP…

2. turnovers: again, it’s very difficult to be considered the best player when you turn the ball over 4.4 times a game..very few times in history a player with that number of turnovers is been considered the best player of his generation..unless your name is magic johnson..but he was a exception, every inch of magic was a exception so i don’t think you wanna get into a descussion here.. chris paul, whom is been considered arguably the best PG of the last years, has averaged 2.4 TOV in 10years..even MJ averaged 2.7 TOV in 15 seasons..

3. winning: to be considered the best you have to win, period. this year, without durant, westbrooks had the chance to prove the kind of player and leader he was as a franchise player..and he had a great year in terms of numbers, but he didn’t even make the playoffs. lebron james is been considered arguably the best player of the last decade and that is for a reason..you may like more or less lebron’s game but the truth is that every team lebron plays for is a championship contender, remember when he took those ugly cavs in 2007 to the nba finals.. 

 

 

[2quick4uParticipant]

"So why can’t he be considered the best player in the nba?"

3 reasons:

1. FG%: you simply can’t be considered the best player in the league having a .426%. not only he can’t be considered the best player in the league but he’ll never win a MVP award unless those numbers rise..michael jordan is considered the best player of all time for some reasons and a big one is because despite averaging 23 shots a game, he averaged .50% in 13 seasons in the league..oh and he has 5mvp awards..in the other hand kobe bryant averaged .45% for 20 attempts per game…and people still wonder why kobe has only won 1 MVP…

2. turnovers: again, it’s very difficult to be considered the best player when you turn the ball over 4.4 times a game..very few times in history a player with that number of turnovers is been considered the best player of his generation..unless your name is magic johnson..but he was a exception, every inch of magic was a exception so i don’t think you wanna get into a descussion here.. chris paul, whom is been considered arguably the best PG of the last years, has averaged 2.4 TOV in 10years..even MJ averaged 2.7 TOV in 15 seasons..

3. winning: to be considered the best you have to win, period. this year, without durant, westbrooks had the chance to prove the kind of player and leader he was as a franchise player..and he had a great year in terms of numbers, but he didn’t even make the playoffs. lebron james is been considered arguably the best player of the last decade and that is for a reason..you may like more or less lebron’s game but the truth is that every team lebron plays for is a championship contender, remember when he took those ugly cavs in 2007 to the nba finals.. 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 You forget to mention how bad of a defender he is.  I know Harden gets a lot of flak for his bad defense, but Westbrook is just as bad if not worse (I personally think he’s worse and the numbers back that up.)  On the ball he gambles too much, reaching in going for steals and just showing bad fundamentals overall.  Off the ball he falls asleep and ball watches.  People just look at how physically imposing he is or stupid stuff like his steals and just assume that he’s a plus defender, but he’s bad. 

But to build off of your points, Westbrook will always be a player who you have to take the good with the bad.  He’s one of the most physically imposing forces of this era, physically dominating just about every single PG matchup, but the other thing that makes him special, his hyper-aggression, comes with a lot of bad.  His shot selection is bad, he’s extremely ball-dominant (highest usage rate in the league), his overall decision making is not good.  Would you really want a subpar decision maker in charge of running an offense, getting others involved and dominating the ball to the tune of the highest USG rate in the league?  All that gets magnified in the clutch, where he makes a ton of mistakes because he doesn’t think, he just goes balls to the wall.  On top of that, he doesn’t play off of others well.  He only functions well in a "my turn, your turn" style of play.  I’ll be interested to see how Donovan manages that.  If Donovan decides to implement more structure and gets West to play his style, Russ won’t be putting up the scoring numbers he did last year.  His efficiency has already been covered.  He’s just not a good shooter, in large part due to his shot selection.  He’s also an extremely emotional player who gets caught up in 1-on-1 battles and who’s frustration can carry over for multiple possessions. 

Overall, awesome player.  Exciting to watch, but his wildness and hyper aggression leads to some bad that comes with the good.  Underrated?  I can’t agree when I look at his total game.

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 You forget to mention how bad of a defender he is.  I know Harden gets a lot of flak for his bad defense, but Westbrook is just as bad if not worse (I personally think he’s worse and the numbers back that up.)  On the ball he gambles too much, reaching in going for steals and just showing bad fundamentals overall.  Off the ball he falls asleep and ball watches.  People just look at how physically imposing he is or stupid stuff like his steals and just assume that he’s a plus defender, but he’s bad. 

But to build off of your points, Westbrook will always be a player who you have to take the good with the bad.  He’s one of the most physically imposing forces of this era, physically dominating just about every single PG matchup, but the other thing that makes him special, his hyper-aggression, comes with a lot of bad.  His shot selection is bad, he’s extremely ball-dominant (highest usage rate in the league), his overall decision making is not good.  Would you really want a subpar decision maker in charge of running an offense, getting others involved and dominating the ball to the tune of the highest USG rate in the league?  All that gets magnified in the clutch, where he makes a ton of mistakes because he doesn’t think, he just goes balls to the wall.  On top of that, he doesn’t play off of others well.  He only functions well in a "my turn, your turn" style of play.  I’ll be interested to see how Donovan manages that.  If Donovan decides to implement more structure and gets West to play his style, Russ won’t be putting up the scoring numbers he did last year.  His efficiency has already been covered.  He’s just not a good shooter, in large part due to his shot selection.  He’s also an extremely emotional player who gets caught up in 1-on-1 battles and who’s frustration can carry over for multiple possessions. 

Overall, awesome player.  Exciting to watch, but his wildness and hyper aggression leads to some bad that comes with the good.  Underrated?  I can’t agree when I look at his total game.

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Four words Allen Iverson/Oscar Robertson

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

Four words Allen Iverson/Oscar Robertson

[JR RyderParticipant]

Two words: Stop – It

[JR RyderParticipant]

Two words: Stop – It

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 4 words: basketball reference, try it

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 4 words: basketball reference, try it

[Arc12345Participant]

I like your comment, but let’s not pretend this isn’t the only reason Kobe has 1 MVP. Kobe should have at least 3-4 MVP’s as he was clearly the best player in the league when Nash won his 2 and then Dirk won the following year.

I’m not undermining Nash or Dirk because I like them both, but between 2005ish-2009ish there really wasn’t any arguement Kobe was the best player in the league. I mean seriously, let’s be real here. He scored 81 in a game, the best scoring performance ever in my opinion (b/c when Wilt scored 100 there was no 3 second rule and he was playing against guys 5-6 inches shorter). His team won the game (I don’t care that it was against the Raptors), and he STILL DIDN’T WIN MVP THAT YEAR!

I really do believe the whole rape case REALLY hurt Kobe’s image and that SOMETIMES (not all the time), politics like that can really hurt your career in terms of awards. I just can’t imagine if players had been voting for MVP during those years that Kobe wouldn’t have won. But who knows. That’s why I really love that the players voted on awards like MVP this year in their own ceremony. Although I thought Curry was deserving of MVP, it says a lot that the players chose Harden, and it made me look at things a bit differently.

 

[Arc12345Participant]

I like your comment, but let’s not pretend this isn’t the only reason Kobe has 1 MVP. Kobe should have at least 3-4 MVP’s as he was clearly the best player in the league when Nash won his 2 and then Dirk won the following year.

I’m not undermining Nash or Dirk because I like them both, but between 2005ish-2009ish there really wasn’t any arguement Kobe was the best player in the league. I mean seriously, let’s be real here. He scored 81 in a game, the best scoring performance ever in my opinion (b/c when Wilt scored 100 there was no 3 second rule and he was playing against guys 5-6 inches shorter). His team won the game (I don’t care that it was against the Raptors), and he STILL DIDN’T WIN MVP THAT YEAR!

I really do believe the whole rape case REALLY hurt Kobe’s image and that SOMETIMES (not all the time), politics like that can really hurt your career in terms of awards. I just can’t imagine if players had been voting for MVP during those years that Kobe wouldn’t have won. But who knows. That’s why I really love that the players voted on awards like MVP this year in their own ceremony. Although I thought Curry was deserving of MVP, it says a lot that the players chose Harden, and it made me look at things a bit differently.

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 It’s cause Kobe struggled winning more than 45 wins and the league was on LeBron hard Eventhough he was playing in the east… Sounds familiar?

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 It’s cause Kobe struggled winning more than 45 wins and the league was on LeBron hard Eventhough he was playing in the east… Sounds familiar?

[MkadozaParticipant]

 I think you may be underrate and undermining what Dirk was all three years you spoke of. He was the most effecient and potent offensive force in the NBA. He was a lot like Durant for those three years… 26, 9, 3, 1stl, 1blk, and tremendous shooting percentages across the board. As a matter of fact, I’d say this recent generation of Power Forwards gets underrated because of how great they all were. You have 3 of the top 5 at their position playing in the same league, same conference at the same time. Often overshadowed by Duncans winning, or Garnetts all around explosiveness, Dirk didn’t get recognized IMO until the Finals win where he was literally unguardable. But were talking about a top 20, maybe even higher, player in NBA history. Lets not act like Kobe got robbed.

[Arc12345Participant]

I’ll respectfully disagree. Dirk was efficient, but there’s more to being an MVP than JUST effiency although that is important. Kobe is WAY more clutch and I really believe a better player. Dirk was knocked out by an 8th seed (the Warriors) the year he won his MVP. And it’s not like the West was as deep as it is now. I’m sorry, that’s just not cutting it. When Kobe ALMOST lead that garbage Lakers team over the Suns I think the year prior or that year? Stop.

I love Dirk, and I was super happy to see him beat the Heat in a rematch with Lebron but to say he was better than Kobe in his prime is non-sense or try to justify him winning an MVP over Kobe during that time (again, the year he was knocked out by an 8 seed). They were both essentially in their prime during that time. I honestly wouldn’t say Dirk is a top 20 player…to go even higher is questionable. Kobe is without a doubt, to me, a top 10 player of all time. Dirk is maybe top 30. Kobe was robbed in my opinion.

If you would want to start your team (during the years of 2005-2009) with Dirk instead of Kobe then that’s on you. I would take Kobe every single time to start my team during those years. No question.

[Arc12345Participant]

I’ll respectfully disagree. Dirk was efficient, but there’s more to being an MVP than JUST effiency although that is important. Kobe is WAY more clutch and I really believe a better player. Dirk was knocked out by an 8th seed (the Warriors) the year he won his MVP. And it’s not like the West was as deep as it is now. I’m sorry, that’s just not cutting it. When Kobe ALMOST lead that garbage Lakers team over the Suns I think the year prior or that year? Stop.

I love Dirk, and I was super happy to see him beat the Heat in a rematch with Lebron but to say he was better than Kobe in his prime is non-sense or try to justify him winning an MVP over Kobe during that time (again, the year he was knocked out by an 8 seed). They were both essentially in their prime during that time. I honestly wouldn’t say Dirk is a top 20 player…to go even higher is questionable. Kobe is without a doubt, to me, a top 10 player of all time. Dirk is maybe top 30. Kobe was robbed in my opinion.

If you would want to start your team (during the years of 2005-2009) with Dirk instead of Kobe then that’s on you. I would take Kobe every single time to start my team during those years. No question.

[MkadozaParticipant]

 I think you may be underrate and undermining what Dirk was all three years you spoke of. He was the most effecient and potent offensive force in the NBA. He was a lot like Durant for those three years… 26, 9, 3, 1stl, 1blk, and tremendous shooting percentages across the board. As a matter of fact, I’d say this recent generation of Power Forwards gets underrated because of how great they all were. You have 3 of the top 5 at their position playing in the same league, same conference at the same time. Often overshadowed by Duncans winning, or Garnetts all around explosiveness, Dirk didn’t get recognized IMO until the Finals win where he was literally unguardable. But were talking about a top 20, maybe even higher, player in NBA history. Lets not act like Kobe got robbed.

[llperez]

Keep in mind when you call out Westbrook for. Not winning enough last year that he was hurt as well. Westbrook missed 15 games last season and only played 8 minutes in the game he was hurt essentially missing 16 games. And in those 16 games without Russ the thunder went 5-11. They only needed 1 more win to make playoffs you don’t think they win one of those 11 games they lost without him? Thunder were on 50 win pace with Russ in lineup despite KD missing a lot. Russ did his job getting wins. This isn’t the east we are talking where Lebron gets credit for winning 50 games and making it to finals before being the easiest team the Spurs played all playoffs and getting swept.

[llperez]

Keep in mind when you call out Westbrook for. Not winning enough last year that he was hurt as well. Westbrook missed 15 games last season and only played 8 minutes in the game he was hurt essentially missing 16 games. And in those 16 games without Russ the thunder went 5-11. They only needed 1 more win to make playoffs you don’t think they win one of those 11 games they lost without him? Thunder were on 50 win pace with Russ in lineup despite KD missing a lot. Russ did his job getting wins. This isn’t the east we are talking where Lebron gets credit for winning 50 games and making it to finals before being the easiest team the Spurs played all playoffs and getting swept.

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 He’s an All Time great, it such a shame that OKC just can Not stay healthy or they would prob have a Title by now…. I think he takes risks defensively b/c that is how their Team defense is set up… Ibaka is an Elite Rim Protector & when you have a rim protector behind you, you Want your guards to take chances in the passing lanes… Offensively his production is Off the charts, I Luv watching him play & I really hope that OKC’s entire team is 100% healthy this year b/c I want to see the Best play the Best….

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 He’s an All Time great, it such a shame that OKC just can Not stay healthy or they would prob have a Title by now…. I think he takes risks defensively b/c that is how their Team defense is set up… Ibaka is an Elite Rim Protector & when you have a rim protector behind you, you Want your guards to take chances in the passing lanes… Offensively his production is Off the charts, I Luv watching him play & I really hope that OKC’s entire team is 100% healthy this year b/c I want to see the Best play the Best….

[GBeeParticipant]

 Bad defense is just bad defense.  Kinda like on offense, Russ doesn’t really go by a scheme.  He just does his own thing.  His decision making is pretty consistent on both ends.

Falling asleep off the ball, being late on rotations, making unnecessary switches, taking bad routes when locking and trailing, etc are not done because of the scheme.  There’s a reason why OKC was better defensively when Russ was off the floor.

[GBeeParticipant]

 Bad defense is just bad defense.  Kinda like on offense, Russ doesn’t really go by a scheme.  He just does his own thing.  His decision making is pretty consistent on both ends.

Falling asleep off the ball, being late on rotations, making unnecessary switches, taking bad routes when locking and trailing, etc are not done because of the scheme.  There’s a reason why OKC was better defensively when Russ was off the floor.

[chaParticipant]

wrong adjective to use.. Everyone knows how dominant he is. The critics are just much louder if you haven’t won any ring and a scorer ie Melo.

[chaParticipant]

wrong adjective to use.. Everyone knows how dominant he is. The critics are just much louder if you haven’t won any ring and a scorer ie Melo.

[tuck243Participant]

I would say not respected.  He’s clear the best PG in the league right now.   His defense was lack luster this year, BUT how dare anyone want him to be fully committed down there WHILE needing to average a triple double in order to win games?   

Let’s not forget that KD was injured this year and Serge Ibaka.   For Westbrook to keep OKC in playoff contention when they’re a team based around 2 superstars shows a lot.   I don’t care about the turnovers or the shooting percentage.  In this day and age where you only have one star you’re not going to win.  This isn’t Allen Iverson 2001, this isn’t Jordan in 1988, or KG in 2000.   You GOTTA have another star or a team with borderline All-Stars/stars.   It’s no way around it…   OKC didn’t have that and for them to almost get in the playoffs shows a lot about Westbrook.  This is a similar situation to Kobe and the 45 win season despite having a terrible team around him.   "He shoots too much" like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were suppose to take more of the shots.  "He’s not a leader" how can being down in a game to the Raptors and scoring 81 points to win it, not leadership?   Then prior to that, he just scored 63 in 3 quarters versus the Mavs.   How can anyone say that’s lack of leadership?  

Is a player suppose to lead his team in every statistical catergory, play defense at a high level, shoot a high percentage, and be top 3 in wins in order to be considered the best?   We don’t take into account the caliber of teammates?  If the Warriors made those wide open 3’s versus the Cavs, the Finals could’ve been a sweep…   These dudes were airballing WIDE OPEN 3’s..   The Cavs got LeBron and still could’ve got swept because his caliber of teammates weren’t that good.   He lead them in every catergory, averaged a triple double, and still lost.  Shot a TERRIBLE percentage and yet A LOT of people felt he should’ve won MVP.   

See: Russell Westbrook 2014-2015 season.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

"I would say not respected. He’s clear the best PG in the league right now" I still can’t believe how people put some point guards ahead of Steph Curry after the year he just had.

[sitlbitoParticipant]

"I would say not respected. He’s clear the best PG in the league right now" I still can’t believe how people put some point guards ahead of Steph Curry after the year he just had.

[tuck243Participant]

He has a great team around him…   Something that Russell Westbrook didn’t have…  Did you NOT read the rest of my post or only cherry picked the first sentence? 

[tuck243Participant]

He has a great team around him…   Something that Russell Westbrook didn’t have…  Did you NOT read the rest of my post or only cherry picked the first sentence? 

[tuck243Participant]

I would say not respected.  He’s clear the best PG in the league right now.   His defense was lack luster this year, BUT how dare anyone want him to be fully committed down there WHILE needing to average a triple double in order to win games?   

Let’s not forget that KD was injured this year and Serge Ibaka.   For Westbrook to keep OKC in playoff contention when they’re a team based around 2 superstars shows a lot.   I don’t care about the turnovers or the shooting percentage.  In this day and age where you only have one star you’re not going to win.  This isn’t Allen Iverson 2001, this isn’t Jordan in 1988, or KG in 2000.   You GOTTA have another star or a team with borderline All-Stars/stars.   It’s no way around it…   OKC didn’t have that and for them to almost get in the playoffs shows a lot about Westbrook.  This is a similar situation to Kobe and the 45 win season despite having a terrible team around him.   "He shoots too much" like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were suppose to take more of the shots.  "He’s not a leader" how can being down in a game to the Raptors and scoring 81 points to win it, not leadership?   Then prior to that, he just scored 63 in 3 quarters versus the Mavs.   How can anyone say that’s lack of leadership?  

Is a player suppose to lead his team in every statistical catergory, play defense at a high level, shoot a high percentage, and be top 3 in wins in order to be considered the best?   We don’t take into account the caliber of teammates?  If the Warriors made those wide open 3’s versus the Cavs, the Finals could’ve been a sweep…   These dudes were airballing WIDE OPEN 3’s..   The Cavs got LeBron and still could’ve got swept because his caliber of teammates weren’t that good.   He lead them in every catergory, averaged a triple double, and still lost.  Shot a TERRIBLE percentage and yet A LOT of people felt he should’ve won MVP.   

See: Russell Westbrook 2014-2015 season.

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

I think to be considered the top player in the league, one must combine dominant perfomance with winning, defense tenacity with offensive juggernaut. Superb Stats while making teammates better. Unselfishness with killer’s instinct.

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

I think to be considered the top player in the league, one must combine dominant perfomance with winning, defense tenacity with offensive juggernaut. Superb Stats while making teammates better. Unselfishness with killer’s instinct.

[Author]

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