Russell Westbrook Stubborn
Russell Westbrook tells ESPN the Magazine who the Thunder should take with the third pick: James Harden. "'He can handle, shoot and he's athletic. And he was in a good system at Arizona State,' ... But don't get Westbrook started on sliding to the 2 so Oklahoma City can tap Spanish star Ricky Rubio. Says he: 'You trippin'.'"
i donk understand players these days. clearly who's the better point guard?Rubio
Atleast he isn't threating the team. *cough*Monta Ellis*cough*
there is absolutely no way that Rubio is going to have 15 points, 5 assists and 5 boards a game. Westbrook is the PG and that's it. Enough of this Rubio stuff.. They are either taking Thabeet or Harden. Plain and simple...
don't care nothing about the good of the team anymore its all 1 on 1 ball, teams would be way better offensively with a true point guard to distribute the ball like PHX was with Nash and Westbrook will never be a true point guard
u got to have unselfish players,but thats not the case any more
There is no way Rubio will lose 59 games next season. He would make a better point guard than Westbrook, who I like as a player but he needs to keep his mouth shut until he starts winning games, because that is the point of playing in the NBA, winning games.
The best players always welcomed competition, why can't Westbrook prove he is the point guard of the future like a man?
people dont know how good westbrook is. i get tired of hearing hes not a point guard or rubio is a better player than he is. cut the bs. what has rubio prove that he can make the thunder better ? i know what yall are going to say. he led his euro team to a couple wins and hes a great passer and all. but westbrook has done a great job playing point. so why change that .
Rubio is the BPA. It doesn't matter who is already there.
Portland passed on Jordan because they needed a center. John Stockton was booed on draft night because Utah already had an all-star point guard. Always take the BPA!
you can't compare Rubio with Westbrook just yet, Westbrook has played in the NBA, rubio hasn't. I pray my team drafts rubio but we have to see how he does in the NBA before we can say who is better. You also can't judge a player by the number of wins his team gets in a season, is durrant a bad player cuz he's on the thunder too.
I don't think Westbrook would benefit by playing the 2. So either Thunder should draft someone besides a pg, or trade either Rubio/Westbrook if they do draft Rubio. Personally, I would go with Westbrook as my pg. He has improved as much as anyone over the last 2-3 years. His defense is probably already ahead of where Rubio's would ever be. I say the Thunder should go with Harden.
And to butidonthavemoney, Westbrook just finished his rookie season while playing better then expected on a very young team. I think it is a little early to start calling out Russell for not winning enough games. And I would be willing to bet money that if Rubio gets drafted by the Kings, he will lose 59 games next year.
Rubio stats after 5 seasons: 12 ppg, 9 apg, 4 rpg
Westbrook: 20, 7.5 apg, 5.5 rpg!!
Westbrook is better player!!
I actually believe Harden is better than Rubio. Plus Westbrook would make a terrible SG. A Harden/Westbrook backcourt is better than a Westbrook/Rubio backcourt.
I agree. How can yall say Rubio is better than Westbrook?? Gotta lot of nerve. I know Harden would be a better pick.
Westbrook has always been a good kid with good character from a good program at ucla. He has never been selfish or spoke out before. As for Rubio "clearly" being better.. It's just not true. He can't move like Westbrook, can't drive like Westbrook, can't finish or get to the line or defend like Westbrook and definitely can not average 15 next season like Westbrook. Take it easy on Westbrook, he's not a tatt'd out thug and he's never had any problems before. He's a good young guy and he had to guard Harden during his sophomore season at ucla. No wonder he wants Harden.. nobody has ever been able to guard him because nobody can guard him. He is way too versatile. Harden should be the pick. Harden>Rubio, Westbrook>Rubio. Hey speaking of character issues.. Westbrook never told teams he didnt want to work out for them (Rubio). Westbrook never had any legal issues (Rubio). Westbrook always worked out for every team (Rubio).
I agree with many points in this thread. Rubio will be a better point guard, in the classic sense of a PG. I see him being like Stockton, averaging something like 15ppg, 13apg, 3rpg, 2spg in a couple of years. However, Westbrook will be averaging 20ppg, 6apg, 6rpg, 2spg, 1spg. Westbrook will the better all around player. Rubio better distributor. Couldn't go wrong with getting Rubio, if RW wanted to play SG like D-Wade. But alas, I also see Harden going for 18ppg, 3apg, 3apg, 2spg once he get's used to playing 82 games. Basically Ben Gordon.
I agree that people are being extremely hard on Westbrook...
His ROOKIE SEASON he averaged 15, 5, and 5....
I think that is pretty damn good...
try to find how many other point guards have done that their rook year...
Rookies make a lot of mistakes and they are only going to improve...
I dont understand how you can say "clearly Rubio is the better point guard," when he has not yet played 1 minutes in the game. That is just ignorant. Westbrook has proved himself as a point guard and Rubio has not...WESTBROOK IS THE BETTER POINT GUARD AS OF NOW....
Now if they do draft Rubio and he plays point guard and they end up winning more games, I do not want to hear how much better he was than Russ. The reason they won more is because the team is constantly getting better. I hope they do not draft Rubio just to prove to everyone that Russ is a PG and can win games at the point guard position....
If Russ stays point guard the Thunder will be in the playoffs within the next three years (and they will stay there and be a championship contender for awhile as long as they keep all their young pieces.)
Ricky Rubio is Steve Nash without the shot...
Russell Westbrook is... a FREAK! Russell isn't the next anything. He's just going to be the best PG in the NBA in 3 years (i know there are alot of great PGs, IMO RW will be better. better than paul. better than deron williams. better than rondo. better than rose). from now on people will be the next Russell. RW will average 6 reb and 8 ass next season. he'll get to the rim at will. he'll continue to make life hell for opposing PGs at 6'4 and his ridiculous wingspan. and I think he'll have added an improved jumper to his game. (kid works harder than anyone i've seen. he improved more from Fr- So yr and more from soph to rookie season than any player i've ever seen) sky is the limit.
Give me 5 triple doubles. give me james harden as his back court mate.
p.s. whoever said james harden is ben gordon... think again. first of all, james harden proved to be an elite athlete at the combine. he's 6'5, not an undersized 6'2. he has other parts to his game than a jumper. he can drive, he can create, and he can score from anywhere. ben gordon is a one-dimensional player.
Westbrook answering a question about drafting Rubio by saying "you trippin" does not make him a selfish player. If he was selfish, why would he want a scorer like Harden who will probably take shots away from Russell. I would not draft Rubio when Russell continues to improve at the point. Russell averaged 5 assists per game, which is pretty good for a rookie had never played full time point before. Russell is already one of the best defensive point guards in the league. Everybody knows Rubio can't play defense. Do you really think he will be able to guard guys like Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derek Rose, Rondo, Nash, etc? I'm not sure he is quick enough to play point on the offensive end. People are getting too carried away with the You Tube videos of Rubio making the no look and behind the back passes. Do you really think he is going to be able to do this against much quicker and more athletic pg's than he saw in Europe?
I really think the Thunder should take Thabeet if he's available. The best post player on their team is Nick Collison and Thabeet is definitely an upgrade over him. Thabeet may never be a great offensive player, but his rebounding and defense make him a valuable player. If Thabeet is gone, then the Thunder should take Harden.
i don't understand what good stats have to do with being a good point guard, you can be a good player, even a great player with pg size and still not be a good point guard. In my opinion westbrook is not a pg, he will never get over 8 assists a game, he will never dominate the tempo of a game, and he will never make his teammates better on offense, i don't even see really good leadership abilities in him but that can change with the years, i will give him that. Rubio on the other hand is already a great point guard who has performed well above expected (as westbrook) in all the stages of his career so far. Maybe he can be a great nba point guard also or maybe he can only be a lousy nba player. Two different things that aren't as related as they could seem to be.
It's great news for ricky rubio though, you're so good that even a guy who overachieved and surprised everyone last year is afraid of you going there and taking his minutes away.
there is no way harden can take away westbrook´s minutes because harden simply can't play pg no matter what, so why wouldn't you praise him over rubio if you were him? Same with jennings not long ago, unless you have nothing to win by bashing on someone, your opinion has little value, at least for me.
Another great thing i would even pay to see would be hearing westbrook if sam presti (a great gm no matter what he does with the third pick ) gets rubio to play alongside him. think about it.
but he will never be able to run an offense like rubio,rubio is create for ofther first(something westbrook never will be)
LOL "Rubio is like Nash without the jump shot"
That doesn't really bode well for Rubio then, considering Nash is, percentage wise, one of the best shooters in NBA history. A dangerous jump shot makes up for a lack of quickness by keeping defenders honest and not allowing them to play off you too much.
man you should run the "we hate rubio" club.
don´t count on me to join.
i don´t get where´s the problem on drafting rubio,he´s BPA.
you´re not gonna make playoffs with harden or with rubio,you can play both guys over 30min,both can still developing.you need a sg,go to the FA.
man! thats a lot of confidence,but who knows,maybe you see something i don´t.a good player with no competition at Pg in his team,it´s easy make stats when you always have the ball,not to worry about go to the bench and KD to put some assist in your stats
but Thunder don't need Rubio...and nobody in Oklahoma City Thunder like him...he there doesn't fit
i´m sure there´s some people who thinks that beasly was a better fit for chicago last year.
and if NOBODY in OKC likes rubio why the put lawyers to study is buyout?
you don´t like him,i´m ok with that,but before dan fgan opens his mouth and all the buyout-gate happens almost every scout on the nba and overseas thinks ricky it´s a lock for the 2ºpick,since all that happens any player has do anything on the court(some workouts!!)to make this change,so i assume pros on scouting have seen something in this guy you don´t.
You guys have kind of twisted my words. My defense....
1. I never said Westbrook was a bad player, or that Rubio will be better.
2. By pointing out the wins I only mean that STATS don't mean anything. WINS do. So Westbrook hasn't proven himself either. As far as I'm concerned they are both unproven talent.
3. Why can't Westbrook embrace a little competition for the good of the team?
4. 15 points on a terrible team with under 40% shooting doesn't make him a great offensive player.
5. If a rape victim sued the rapist, does that mean the victim has character issues? He owes 6.6 million dollars and he make less than 100,000, he needs to go somewhere he can be successful. If not working out for certain teams means you have character issues, I guess Blake Griffen, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Stephen Curry, Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Patrick Mills, Jonny Flynn and Jrue Holiday all have character issues too. That is the most unlogical arguement I have read so far.
6. Rubio can't play defense? All he can do is fancy passes? Am I talking to a bunch of amatures?
7. You guys should atleast make arguements that make sense. Like why Harden would be a better fit, or how Rubio and Westbrook wouldn't play well together. You are losing credibility in the eyes of the rest of us.
8. ALWAYS TAKE THE BPA!!!!!!!
Hey guys, Darko was thought to be the BPA. How did that work out for Detroit?
West brook is the Point Guard we need. The nucleus of Westbrook,Green and Duant needs to stay together. If they Draft Rubio i dont think Westbrook would like being a 2 spot guy
Detroit picked Darko because they wanted a project to eventually replace Ben Wallace on the roster. Center was their biggest need because Memo left them.
Even if he was considered the BPA, you are just cherry-picking. Have you ever heard of Sam Bowie? How did that work out for Portland? There are exceptions to every rule, but picking the BPA usually works out better.
I dont think Rubio is going to be good, I also dont think Westbrook will be the best pg in the NBA in 3 years. Remember JOhn Wall, Derrick Rose,and I know he wont be better than them. Also for you to say he'll be better than Chris , Derron WIlliams is wrong.
First of all, the argument is very weak that Rubio is the BPA over Harden. Best player in pac-10? When you look at each player and how ppl view them, how much is due to hype? I'd say Rubio is definitely more hype than Harden- in a heat beat.
Harden has shown what he's capable of against ncaa competition. He's shown that any notion of him being an average athlete is out of left field.... Rubio has a slew of youtube videos... Which player is better? that's not as clear-cut of an answer as you guys are making it out to be, (budidont, esp)
I think there is a time and place for BPA... and not every situation is the same, and not every BPA succeeds. Kwame Brown, Darko, Greg Oden over KD, Bogut, Marvin Williams... these are all BPA picks~!!
If the Hawks wouldn't have followed that strategy, they would have had Deron Williams or CP3... I'm not saying BPA is a bad draft strategy, just that for every good example you can give, I can give you an instance where it didn't produce the best result.
If you're the Thunder and you think it's a toss-up between Harden and Rubio, than what's the NEXT criterion for who to take? clearly, they have to take into consideration, what does my team need?
you cant drop facts on these people, They are huge Westbrook fans. Any fan will look away from things they dont like. I do agree that Harden is the best fit in OKC because Westbrook has shown he can play PG just fine. I dont think he will be the best PG in the game in 3 years, I know he wont; But he is a very talented young player.
Good point. I guess I just feel Rubio is the better talent. He has been considered the consensus number 2 pick for most of the year and I've always been excited to watch him play. BPA is pretty subjective. To a rather large number of people on this board, Jennings is a better player than Blake Griffen. Like I said, there are always exceptions. You can cherry-pick all day but I have seen too many teams pass on talented players because they already had somebody else in his position. I really like Harden and Westbrook is fun to watch but I still think the Thunder will regret not taking Rubio in this years draft. We'll see what they do tomorrow.
You are right though, now that I think about it, BPA is a weak arguement...
King - Every fanboy is in denial about their team (myself included). That is why all the best sports announcers don't cheer for any specific team, they just follow the entire league.
In my first post, I never said anything bad about Rubio. I think he will be a very good player. But Oklahoma would need to either trade him or westbrook if they did draft Rubio because I don't see any way they would work together. Two gaurds who need the ball and can't shoot well equals a bad combination. Also, I'm not sure how I was twisting your words by bringing up the fact that Westbrook should be not be criticized for the 59 losses last year, which you did by inferring that there is no way Rubio would lose that many games. Rubio may end up being better then Westbrook, but I would'nt trade Russel in order to take a risk on it.
I have clearly been talking out of my ass. Please disregard anything I have said in this here thread.
In order to get back in everybody's good graces, here is a funny picture!
looks like he has been accused of rape, lol.
I wish there was a video of it. I can't find any though...
darko BPA?oden BPA?bogut? i think they are "needs" picks or "go big"picks.
ben wallace is a 0 on offense and detroit already has a young talented sf in prince so they take the risk and pick a player who has do nothing in europe but looks promising.that´s nothing similar to rubio who already shows he can play.my point is that ock needs so many players,any position are covered with two great players,of course they dont spend a 3 pick in choosing a backup for durant,but i´m sure if they can pick griffin anyone would say "they already have green,pick thabeet or harden" so the point should be. is rubio the BPA?
nba today it´s not like the 80´s anymore when you pick a player and expects him to play for your team his whole carrer(except for the clippers),look lebron or bosh,both likely to go next year.i mean,you pass on a very talented player in one position you´ve already have covered with a good player to fit a need and make a good core of players around your superstar and then your superstar goes.to me picking the BPA and going to the FA market or via trade to complete your rosters makes much more sense.so then again the cuestion should be.who is the BPA?it´s rubio? for me tha answer is YES
i have to agree with some comments, bpa is subjective but you've got take scouts and performance into consideration. usually when there's some kind of agreement between scouts, results and gm's you've got to concede that a player like rubio is the bpa at least at the 3 spot in this draft. Drafting works so very few times, and it usually comes back to hunt you if the other player ends up being a star somewhere else. In this case it's not like they have an all star and a good backup at pg so it's even more complicated.
About darko being bpa, everybody and i mean everybody thought carmelo anthony was by far the second best prospect in that draft (d-wade ended up being the clear second pick in that draft in hindsight but that's another topic). Reality is people where actually shocked by detroit's pick and nobody would be shocked if the thunder (or the grizzlies for that matter) would go and select ricky. I would like to know what the coach (brooks) thinks about playing two pg's at the same time and if that's something he thinks he can manage, because that's probably one of the most important factors in this topic. But hey it's around 14 hours to the draft so we will see soon enough
Marvin Williams was NOT the BPA...come on he didnt even start at UNC. The Hawks just liked his upside but he wasnt a better college player than either Chris Paul or Derron Williams. He wasnt even as good as Randy Foye or Brandon Roy then either, and he still isnt.
lol...rubio is not steve nash or any of these other guys you try to compare him too..yall need to stop jumping on bandwagons just because you see a youtube clip or here what other people say about a player..watch him for a season first before saying hes gonna do this or that...whats really funny is the people saying he would come in from jump and average a double double or lead the team to this or that when in reality he wont start for his first year and if he does it wont be because he out played someone...you got to realize the kid is 18 and onl;y averaged 9.8pts and 5.8ast over in spain and only started some games...he also lead spain in turnovers a game and it wasnt even that close..then on top of that he isnt as fast or as clever a ball handler nor is he even considered a good shooter...its just so funny how every year theres a new euro and the fans read about then eat up the thought of him comming and changing the game ...lol..like when people started comparing him to pistol pete when the only comparable thing about them is there hair....also just like marvin williams as someone said rubio is picked for what they HOPE he will eventually do not for what he can do now