This topic contains 36 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar stanford hoops 13 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #23137
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    valentine

    A lil bit from hoopsworld write up

    In the first eight games of the 2010-11 season, Westbrook has solidified the fact that his name belongs in top-tier discussions of point guards in the league. He has increased his averages thus far to 24.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 7.8 apg, 2.3 steals, .907 in free throw shooting, with a mind-blowing 27.0 Player Efficiency Rating (PER), good for a second ranking in the league. Currently, he’s league-ranked second in free-throws, seventh in steals, sixth in Offensive Win Shares and sixth in points per game.

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  • #434164
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    nbaretro
    Participant

    Eh, It’s still kinda early don’t you think?

     

    I agree, Westbrook has played really well and I think he is a top 5 point guard in the NBA but those numbers ( most likely scoring) will decrease to about 19ppg. I think 19-6-8 is his final season stat line. I also think he’s taking a All Star Bid away from someone.

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  • #434169
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    nbaretro
    Participant

    Eh, It’s still kinda early don’t you think?

     

    I agree, Westbrook has played really well and I think he is a top 5 point guard in the NBA but those numbers ( most likely scoring) will decrease to about 19ppg. I think 19-6-8 is his final season stat line. I also think he’s taking a All Star Bid away from someone.

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  • #434179
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    Blazermann
    Participant

    where is he fg% and t.o to ast rate? thats where the money is

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  • #434174
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    Blazermann
    Participant

    where is he fg% and t.o to ast rate? thats where the money is

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  • #434176
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    Muggsy
    Participant

    He’s playing extremely well, but numbers tend to even out over time. However he’s still a top tier PG in the league.

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  • #434181
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    Muggsy
    Participant

    He’s playing extremely well, but numbers tend to even out over time. However he’s still a top tier PG in the league.

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  • #434192
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    I May Be Wrong
    Participant

    Fg% = 45.6% (not bad I would say, especially for his career average of 41%)

    Assit to TO = 7.8 to 3.8 (a little over 2 to 1) (3 to 1 i think i solid for PGs)

    the 90% free throw has been surprising. If he can keep that up, he’ll get 8 points easily from the charity stripe. However, like everyone else, I think his numbers will dip. I have him averaging 19, 8, 6 and shooting 45% and 83% from the line. (if he can only add a 3 point game because he’s not improving in that)

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  • #434197
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    I May Be Wrong
    Participant

    Fg% = 45.6% (not bad I would say, especially for his career average of 41%)

    Assit to TO = 7.8 to 3.8 (a little over 2 to 1) (3 to 1 i think i solid for PGs)

    the 90% free throw has been surprising. If he can keep that up, he’ll get 8 points easily from the charity stripe. However, like everyone else, I think his numbers will dip. I have him averaging 19, 8, 6 and shooting 45% and 83% from the line. (if he can only add a 3 point game because he’s not improving in that)

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  • #434209
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    Muggsy
    Participant

    He did hit a 3 the other night near the end of the game which helped seal the win. But I won’t lie I crinched when he took it.

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  • #434212
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    Muggsy
    Participant

    He did hit a 3 the other night near the end of the game which helped seal the win. But I won’t lie I crinched when he took it.

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  • #434260
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    NYK2010
    Participant

    I think its too early and I don’t think he’s a top 5 PG yet.

    I have the top 5 being Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Nash

    Than the 2nd tier some a lil high based on experience Parker, Andre Miller, Billups, Jennings, Kidd

    3rd tier with Aaron Brooks, Raymond Felton, Devin Harris, Steph Curry, Jrue Holiday

    4th tier Mike Conley, Jameer Nelson, Darren Collison, Mo Williams

    5th tier Mike Bibby, D.J. Augustine, Stuckey, Derek Fisher

    The last tier Johnny Flynn, Jose Calderon, Carlos Arroyo, Udrih

    Only starters left off the list were John Wall, Westbrook and Baron Davis.

    Wall is definately top 15 and might be top 10 already the way he’s playing he has only 6 turnovers the last 3 games along with 30 asts.  Westbrook is a top 10 PG maybe 7th after Parker who knows I haven’t seen Tony Parker play much this year.  Baron Davis I haven’t seen play at all yet this year he’s probably in the 4th tier on this list.

    Westbrook definatley needs to improve his 3pt shooting even up to 30% would be a huge upgrade and make him a more complete player.

    I’m curious to know what you guys think of my order of PG’s especially my top 15.

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  • #434263
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    NYK2010
    Participant

    I think its too early and I don’t think he’s a top 5 PG yet.

    I have the top 5 being Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Nash

    Than the 2nd tier some a lil high based on experience Parker, Andre Miller, Billups, Jennings, Kidd

    3rd tier with Aaron Brooks, Raymond Felton, Devin Harris, Steph Curry, Jrue Holiday

    4th tier Mike Conley, Jameer Nelson, Darren Collison, Mo Williams

    5th tier Mike Bibby, D.J. Augustine, Stuckey, Derek Fisher

    The last tier Johnny Flynn, Jose Calderon, Carlos Arroyo, Udrih

    Only starters left off the list were John Wall, Westbrook and Baron Davis.

    Wall is definately top 15 and might be top 10 already the way he’s playing he has only 6 turnovers the last 3 games along with 30 asts.  Westbrook is a top 10 PG maybe 7th after Parker who knows I haven’t seen Tony Parker play much this year.  Baron Davis I haven’t seen play at all yet this year he’s probably in the 4th tier on this list.

    Westbrook definatley needs to improve his 3pt shooting even up to 30% would be a huge upgrade and make him a more complete player.

    I’m curious to know what you guys think of my order of PG’s especially my top 15.

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  • #434317
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    Meditated States
    Participant

    Still not with the top guys though. I like watching him play. Good defensively,and penetrates well. His jumper is getting more reliable,still too many turnovers.

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  • #434322
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    Meditated States
    Participant

    Still not with the top guys though. I like watching him play. Good defensively,and penetrates well. His jumper is getting more reliable,still too many turnovers.

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  • #434333
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    stanford hoops

    Agreed. He’s on the second level with rose but he’s close to the top guys because he’s very good on offense and DEFENSE

    As far as turnovers he averages less than rose,Williams and Nash 

    Actually he’s very close to the first unit of top pg

    (cp3,dwill,rondo). I have him right behind those and ahead of rose because of defense . Yes people defense is part of ranking although some people like to ignore that.  You have to take both offense and defense into account when ranking players

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  • #434338
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    stanford hoops

    Agreed. He’s on the second level with rose but he’s close to the top guys because he’s very good on offense and DEFENSE

    As far as turnovers he averages less than rose,Williams and Nash 

    Actually he’s very close to the first unit of top pg

    (cp3,dwill,rondo). I have him right behind those and ahead of rose because of defense . Yes people defense is part of ranking although some people like to ignore that.  You have to take both offense and defense into account when ranking players

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  • #434357
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    JNixon
    Participant

    "As far as turnovers he averages less than rose,Williams and Nash"

    He’s responsible for less of a load than those guys are. That’s why his TO numbers are less, to be honest. Westbrook isn’t a better playmaker than any of those guys. I personally think you have to take in account the way teams use their players when trying to see who’s a better playmaker. He might average less TO’s, but he also might have a worse A/TO, or he might not be depended on to score as much as other guys. Westbrook is a good PG, but he’s not as good as CP3, Williams, Rondo, Rose or Nash to me. I think if he had to work with the talent they did, people would see his real value and the value of those guys too.

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  • #434362
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    JNixon
    Participant

    "As far as turnovers he averages less than rose,Williams and Nash"

    He’s responsible for less of a load than those guys are. That’s why his TO numbers are less, to be honest. Westbrook isn’t a better playmaker than any of those guys. I personally think you have to take in account the way teams use their players when trying to see who’s a better playmaker. He might average less TO’s, but he also might have a worse A/TO, or he might not be depended on to score as much as other guys. Westbrook is a good PG, but he’s not as good as CP3, Williams, Rondo, Rose or Nash to me. I think if he had to work with the talent they did, people would see his real value and the value of those guys too.

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  • #434363
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    stanford hoops

    I agree. He’s not the passer that cp3 and Williams/rondo Nash is but he handles the ball just as much.  IMO he’s better then rose. He doesn’t have to score as much yet he’s scoring more then rose per game( although not by much) he’s a much better defender more efficiant( leads the leauge) better rebounder,steals,free throw shooter while out playing rose soundly head tp head   Not sure what else he has to prove And all around better then rose. Rose isn’t in the top catagory because he’s not on any of thoses guys level as far as defense. Some have rose better but have no proof to support it. What makes a player better then another?  Offense and defense as well as how efficant they are. It’s clear no matter what Westbrook does some won’t give him the respect. I don’t wanna hear sum say because he plays with durant cuz that’s a cop out.  Pippen played with Jordan,stockton with Malone,worthy with magic etc.  Nor should people make excuses like ” if he played with this guy or if we switch players with this team” this isn’t fantasy basketball so let’s stick to reality and facts while taking out biasness  

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  • #434368
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    stanford hoops

    I agree. He’s not the passer that cp3 and Williams/rondo Nash is but he handles the ball just as much.  IMO he’s better then rose. He doesn’t have to score as much yet he’s scoring more then rose per game( although not by much) he’s a much better defender more efficiant( leads the leauge) better rebounder,steals,free throw shooter while out playing rose soundly head tp head   Not sure what else he has to prove And all around better then rose. Rose isn’t in the top catagory because he’s not on any of thoses guys level as far as defense. Some have rose better but have no proof to support it. What makes a player better then another?  Offense and defense as well as how efficant they are. It’s clear no matter what Westbrook does some won’t give him the respect. I don’t wanna hear sum say because he plays with durant cuz that’s a cop out.  Pippen played with Jordan,stockton with Malone,worthy with magic etc.  Nor should people make excuses like ” if he played with this guy or if we switch players with this team” this isn’t fantasy basketball so let’s stick to reality and facts while taking out biasness  

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  • #434367
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    stanford hoops

    Question. What makes Westbrook responsible for less of the load?  What’s that based on?  He’s the second leasing scorer on his team. ( I think same as Nash,dwill and more so then rondo) I’ll have to check to see how many points his teammates account for compared to the other point guards. he’s the primary ball handler on his team and I’ll check to see how often he has the ball in his hands compared to the other point guards unless you have done that and that’s what you’re baseing it on 

    But as far as Westbrook and rose they are in the second tier of pg

    Dwill and cp3 are the best and have done it longer

    Rondo has a title and is all around better then rose. Westbrook is closer to rondo because he’s also a good defender.

    Something I like to look at is take away scoring from these point guards and what do they bring to the table after that?

    Rondo-defense,passing,rebounding,steals

    Wesbrook-rebounding,steals,efficiancy,defense,passing

    Rose-passing

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  • #434371
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    stanford hoops

    Question. What makes Westbrook responsible for less of the load?  What’s that based on?  He’s the second leasing scorer on his team. ( I think same as Nash,dwill and more so then rondo) I’ll have to check to see how many points his teammates account for compared to the other point guards. he’s the primary ball handler on his team and I’ll check to see how often he has the ball in his hands compared to the other point guards unless you have done that and that’s what you’re baseing it on 

    But as far as Westbrook and rose they are in the second tier of pg

    Dwill and cp3 are the best and have done it longer

    Rondo has a title and is all around better then rose. Westbrook is closer to rondo because he’s also a good defender.

    Something I like to look at is take away scoring from these point guards and what do they bring to the table after that?

    Rondo-defense,passing,rebounding,steals

    Wesbrook-rebounding,steals,efficiancy,defense,passing

    Rose-passing

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  • #434383
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    nbaretro
    Participant

    Chris Paul and Deron Williams are the number one guys for thier team. Westbrook is number two and ( unfairly or not) teams would often worry about Durant before Westbrook

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  • #434388
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    nbaretro
    Participant

    Chris Paul and Deron Williams are the number one guys for thier team. Westbrook is number two and ( unfairly or not) teams would often worry about Durant before Westbrook

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  • #434391
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    stanford hoops

    Who’s questioning Westbrook being on cp3 or dwills level?  They are on the top level. Rondo is a step behind them with Westbrook a step behind rondo and rose a step behind Westbrook IMO 

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  • #434396
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    stanford hoops

    Who’s questioning Westbrook being on cp3 or dwills level?  They are on the top level. Rondo is a step behind them with Westbrook a step behind rondo and rose a step behind Westbrook IMO 

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  • #434530
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    IndianaBasketball
    Participant

    It’s not like Rose hasn’t outplayed Westbrook "soundly" head to head in the past too. I remember Rose destroying him in OKC last season. Both players are going to take turns outplaying each other during the regular season, so this is irrellivant.

    I don’t need numbers to tell me who’s the better player. I’ve watched them both play a lot this season, so I’ll use the eye test.

    My eyes tell me that Westbrook is the better all-around player, but Rose is the better player. Westbrook makes too many bad decisions to me. He’s still too out of control. And while he makes some of those pull up jumpers, quite a few of them are VERY bad shots that aren’t even in the flow of the offense. He forces the issue way too much to me and you can just see that he isn’t a natural point guard.

    I’m really anxious to see how Rose plays when Boozer, who teams HAVE to respect, returns from injury.

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  • #434533
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    IndianaBasketball
    Participant

    It’s not like Rose hasn’t outplayed Westbrook "soundly" head to head in the past too. I remember Rose destroying him in OKC last season. Both players are going to take turns outplaying each other during the regular season, so this is irrellivant.

    I don’t need numbers to tell me who’s the better player. I’ve watched them both play a lot this season, so I’ll use the eye test.

    My eyes tell me that Westbrook is the better all-around player, but Rose is the better player. Westbrook makes too many bad decisions to me. He’s still too out of control. And while he makes some of those pull up jumpers, quite a few of them are VERY bad shots that aren’t even in the flow of the offense. He forces the issue way too much to me and you can just see that he isn’t a natural point guard.

    I’m really anxious to see how Rose plays when Boozer, who teams HAVE to respect, returns from injury.

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  • #434536
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    gone
    Participant

    Rose is unreal on offense he has more confidence in his jumper out to the 3pt line the numbers will even out as the season goes along and his body control is crazy for a pg

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  • #434539
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    gone
    Participant

    Rose is unreal on offense he has more confidence in his jumper out to the 3pt line the numbers will even out as the season goes along and his body control is crazy for a pg

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  • #434615
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    stanford hoops

    Lol. Confidence doesn’t mean anything if you can’t shoot threes which rose can’t. Those numbers won’t even out because rose is not a good three point shooter

    My eyes show me westbrok is better and the same issues you have wit Westbrook I have with rose (forcing the issue to much and getting out of control and turning it over to much)

    On top of not being a good defender or being as efficant.  Yes rose outplayed him in the past key word being past. Westbrook is a much better player then he was in the past.  Like I said before Westbrook is just better at many more things then rose. I respect everyone opinions but facts are facts

    (in my Dwight Howard voice ” faaaacccccttttsss. Doooonnnnnttt liiiiieee”

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  • #434630
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    stanford hoops

    Lol. Confidence doesn’t mean anything if you can’t shoot threes which rose can’t. Those numbers won’t even out because rose is not a good three point shooter

    My eyes show me westbrok is better and the same issues you have wit Westbrook I have with rose (forcing the issue to much and getting out of control and turning it over to much)

    On top of not being a good defender or being as efficant.  Yes rose outplayed him in the past key word being past. Westbrook is a much better player then he was in the past.  Like I said before Westbrook is just better at many more things then rose. I respect everyone opinions but facts are facts

    (in my Dwight Howard voice ” faaaacccccttttsss. Doooonnnnnttt liiiiieee”

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  • #434652
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    IndianaBasketball
    Participant

    Rose is going to turn the ball over due to the fact he IS Chicago’s offense. Westbrook isn’t the main guy on OKC. He’s the *second* guy. Rose is the first guy in Chicago. He’s counted on to distribute AND score. A MUCH different load and responsibility than what Westbrook has. Durant is superman in OKC. Westbrook is Robin.

    You’re a funny guy. When Rose outplayed Westbrook head to head last season, you pushed it to the side. Now, when Westbrook outplays Rose, it’s a big deal. Look at yourself…

    Like I said… It’s still early in the season. Let’s see how Rose plays when Boozer returns from injury. That’s a 20 and 10 power forward who teams have to gameplan for.

     

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  • #434665
    AvatarAvatar
    IndianaBasketball
    Participant

    Rose is going to turn the ball over due to the fact he IS Chicago’s offense. Westbrook isn’t the main guy on OKC. He’s the *second* guy. Rose is the first guy in Chicago. He’s counted on to distribute AND score. A MUCH different load and responsibility than what Westbrook has. Durant is superman in OKC. Westbrook is Robin.

    You’re a funny guy. When Rose outplayed Westbrook head to head last season, you pushed it to the side. Now, when Westbrook outplays Rose, it’s a big deal. Look at yourself…

    Like I said… It’s still early in the season. Let’s see how Rose plays when Boozer returns from injury. That’s a 20 and 10 power forward who teams have to gameplan for.

     

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  • #434668
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    stanford hoops

    The out playing is just icing on the cake. Even without that westbrook is better. Yeah look at me:)

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  • #434681
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    stanford hoops

    The out playing is just icing on the cake. Even without that westbrook is better. Yeah look at me:)

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