Rumors of a Three Year Requirement in College
Rutgers men's college basketball head coach, Mike Rice, posted on Twitter Thursday morning that he's "hearing" that "NBA owners want to adopt same rule as NFL. Players will have to wait 3 yrs(sic) to enter the draft."
It's the first we've heard of such a proposal in the CBA talks, though an adjustment to the age rule has been discussed. Moving to three years would radically change the landscape of the NBA, shortening career spans, damaging the ability to develop raw talent, and limiting the effectiveness of the D-League. It would also allow college to weed out bust players and take the burden of development off NBA clubs. It's also an idea that the players union would likely hate, but might be willing to compromise on to get a few extra Bucks out of BRI.
The debate on how long to keep players in college is always going to be a tense one. It touches on the question of limiting a person's earning potential, protecting the college game and pro investments, and of course, the always sensitive subject of the exploitation of athletes by the NCAA. Rice, being a member of a profession that would be greatly helped by getting their talented players locked in for three years, isn't an objective source, by any means, but the whisper in the wind is certainly enough to perk up an ear. More and more it seems likely that after this new CBA is finally agreed upon, the NBA won't look anything like it has in recent history.
Wow I'm kind of torn on this one. If they do implement this rule, in theory, it's supposed to raise the level of play in College and the NBA. But for elite recruits...three years is a LONG time. I can understand two, but three?
I don't really understand why they would follow the NFL rules because College Basketball is completely different than College Football. Elite recruits play IMMEDIATELY and get exposure and PT way earlier than most CFB recruits.
I also didn't see anything about an early Highschool entry into the draft. If they don't even have that...I can imagine many of the top recruits going overseas.
Regardless, if this does get implemented at least kids will be more focused on getting an education. Lord knows how many of those busts wished they could go back and get their degree.
3 is a long time. I think if the players assocation compromised with 2 years it wouldnt so bad.
I know people will argue the effectiveness of the D-League but I dont think it has panned out like the NBA had hoped.. Yeah, we have good players coming from there all the time but I think it is more of a money pit than a productive part of the NBA..
By insisting that playes be 3 years removed from their HS class, you get to see a "farm league" type system that is, to the NBA, free!! You get "MEN" in the NBA now instead of boys.
21 vs 18 is a hell of a lot of differense in mental and physical growth..
Could make the NBA a more respectable league and more of a "Men's League" than a league run by kids..
I am all for kids getting an education so of course I am all for it but from an NBA business standpoint, if they did this, and removed the D-League, I can see this being a productive move..
8th deadly sin you tell that to players like John Wall and Derrick Rose and so on that they have to stay three years and they end up with a career ending injury before they ever play a professional game or get the financial security of a NBA contract. I know if i was player ready to enter the league and this happened it would be the most dissapoitning thing in life. I personally think it should be straight from high school or one and done either way im happy. You always hear of gms complaining of having to draft kids who arent ready or arent mature. Honestly if they did their homework correctly and used common sense your going to be right about their pro future most of the time. Its easy to sit back and look at it from your perspective and say something, and honestly everything you said is right but theres way more factors to consider
I get tired of hearing this arguement.. Every time you walk down the road, you take that risk.. If that does happen, instead of them going bankrupt, they will have a college degree.. Please tell me one occupation that you can not have a college degree and start out with a minimum income of 450,000 dollars a year?? And that is not working every day of the year.. That is free food with 3 hour practices a day playing a game..
This isnt an ordinary job..
You can argue that $hit all day but I dont give a damn.. You have your opinion, I have mine.. I argue this same damn thing all the time. It would be better for society for a kid to have to put in the time to work in a class and stay eligeble.. Then, if they can do that for 3 years, then they can play in the NBA..
I am so tired of this bull $hit arguement that you are not letting these kids work.. Go to F@CKING MCDONALDS!!
The8thdeadly sin so you'd rather have a kid who's ready for the league (i.e. Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Dwight, etc) waste his time in college and lessen the earnings he would make if he went to the NBA? For a degree that if his career is successful would likely never use? A degree if the kid did go to college could easily go back to get? I respect your opinion, but excuse me for believing its just the wrong opinion to have.
The great players will still be great plaers.. The scrubs would get washed out.. Magic still was fantastic.. So was Bird, and Dr. J, and MJ and many many more.. Lebron would have still been fantastic if not better... Same thing for Dwight and every other..
College doesnt hurt anyone that is ready to play.. It only exposes the players who werent gonna make it anyway.
And the money thing is a horrible arugement.. If you are going to be an NBA player and decent one, I will never feel sorry for you because you dotn have money.. While 99 percent of the population works 40+ hours a week to make 150,000 dollars a year and NBA players work half that and get 10,000,000 a year to play a game...
You go ahead an feel bad for these millionares...
That sounds like jealousy do you realize these millionares have a special combination of skills that not everyone has? I remember hearing a coach say only 3% of basketball players make D1 imagination how few actually get in the league. The market determines the price and if they didn't deserve the money they wouldn't be getting paid nearly as much. They'd be paid as much as WNBA players which isn't alot compared to other professional athletes. Have you ever watched the NFL or followed it players are required to stay atleast 3 years in college yet you still have plenty of busts in the NFL. Football players have had scandals in college because of the requirement to stay in school, think Reggie Bush or Terrelle Pryor, if these guys could go to the NFL sooner they'd be less likely to take money while in school.
Personally I have a problem with the way the NCAA is run as well. You have schools making millions of dollars from there athletes and they don't get a cent of it. You realize these so called full scholarships are 1 year contracts that can be taken away any time a coach sees fit. A guy could be an "A" student, but if he performs poorly on the basketball court and someone better comes along his scholarship can be taken away immediately. The NCAA forbids athletes from making money with there own means even if that means selling there own memorabilia or jerseys. The NCAA forbids athletes from getting any money with there own name while the NCAA rakes in millions. The whole system is corrupt in so many ways and I don't like athletes staying longer than they have to.
Yeah, I am jealous.. Jealous that I am a hard worker with alot of time dedicated to my trade. I am a good person and a good student and no matter how hard I work, I will never make as much money as a kid who skips class to shoot ball and has never worked for anything but since he was born 6'8 with a freak set of genes, will forever be an icon..
So jealous, yes... Would I change the way the NBA and NCAA does things, yes.. Do I think that a kid that should get paid stupid money without ever working on anything but the playground, which isnt work no matter what people say??
If you didnt go to college, you wouldnt understand.. If you never worked hard for something, you wouldnt understand..
So since you think that these guys should be pampered even more than they are, I can only assume that you have been pampered..
And go ahead and tell me your sap story and how you have worked for everything you have and I will call you a liar... If you dont know what it is like to work for something, you will never understand..
My perspective will always be different than yours because I know what it is like to work for playing time.. I know what it is like to work while my friends party. and I also know what it is like to buy my first car without the help of my parents... So keep fighting for these guys that dont deserve what they are handed and dont appreciate anything...
very few people get a degree just to say they have gotten one....the main objective is to get a job with it. if someone was going to pay you $1 million to take a job but the stipulation was you needed a degree, you would try your damnest to get that degree. but if they told you that the degree is not required...would you say, "hmm, I think I will wait til I get my degree, because I dont know if you guys are going to get rid of me after my contract is up"? no, you go for opportunity. opportunity is only blown if you dont take it. if you take it, its 50/50 that it pans out, more or less, depending on your occupation. the ENTIRE system is corrupt as andxxx said...and thats not just the NCAA....thats in general. the people who are trying to mandate these regulations are the very ones who stand to gain or lose the most from them.
The guys that do work 40+ hours, besides talent probably never worked hard enough and had the ambition to play professional sports. Playing in the NBA is a year round job which requires a serious work ethic to remain successful. That is why the average NBA career is so small. I've heard stories of Durant having his mom wake him up at midnight to run hills, players like Magic Johnson who practiced outside when it was dark and raining, players like Russell Westbrook who spent hours with his dad almost every day of his young life working on shooting. Players like Joel Anthony who aren't as talented, but workout 7 days a week renting an apartment near there team facility so they are within jogging distance. Making it to the NBA or any professional sports league is hard and required a lot of sacrifice on the athlete's part at a younger age that most ppl are willing to take. There are many athletes that get a little lazy once the money is earned, but they tend to not last very long and usually lose the money.
I agree it's not easy working 40+ hours a week and only earning a 5 figure salary a year. At the same time it's not easy at all to make it professionally and play as long as possible professionally. So I disagree that players work only half of that far from it.
also....what did going to college do to help Jereme Richmond...just an example. had he came out of HS, he probably wouldve gotten drafted or made a squad. all going to college did was force a kid to go who didnt want to be there in the first place. now he is up sh!ts creek. some of these guys like him, Selby...they are not made for college, the NCAA is just forcing them to be there because without them, no money is made. Richmond and Selby may not be cut out for the NBA either, but I think forcing them to go to college doesnt help them out, doesnt help the team, and in some cases, hurts the University itself.
Some of that stuff that you talked about is work, I agree but how much of you week does the actual "Work" take up?? Not hundreds of hours.. Not 40 hours.. Playing the game and practicing is not work.. It is kids in a gym shooting ball and playing pickup.. For some people, the weight room is work, but for most, it is fun.. I know tons of people who love going to the gym.. It is the best part of their day.. Lifting weights for people is not work.. And neither is ballin..
The crap that they work hard is crap because working on your jumper for hours is nothing compared to welding for 8 hours a day.. Or working in the ER for 10 hours a day overnight. It is nothing compared to working as a guard at a jail..
You can never tell me that playing a game is harder than work...
It does help.. Having a league full of playes who can buckle down and get through college is better than a league of guys that werent "cut out for college".. All that means is they didnt want to go to class and didnt want to do the work...
That "college isnt for me" stuff is crap... Dont give me that shit..
The8thDeadlySin I'm sorry how your life is, but putting a ball in the basket and working on it is work. There are different types, but that is putting in work. Do you really think just cause someone is 6'8" with a freak set of genes they make the league? Why is it so bad that a guy spends hours perfecting his craft while not spending as much time in his studies. He's still working on his skills to make it there are plenty of ppl who either did not stay in college or dropped out who have become very successful, some have even become billionares. You sound like someone who is mad that even though they put in a lot of hardwork there still not millionares or as successful as they feel they should be. I'm not in any way saying you don't work hard, but I'm just saying these athletes work hard as well and for many college isn't necessary.
It takes a special combination of talent, hardwork, ambition, and a little bit of luck. You at least need the first 3 to become as successful or 2 out of 3 to become as successful as some of these athletes. I'm not thinking of these guys being pampered I'm thinking of what's fair without bringing my own personal issues into the argument.
the dedication, the training that some of these guys have to go through...I wouldnt want it. the sacrifices, not living a normal life, etc...its not what its cracked up to be. I am not sympathizing for them but I have my own pressure in my life...they have their own pressure as well. just because these guys are millionaires does not mean their lives are easy. pressure that is upon them just to get to that level is incredible. I would not want to live for 19 years being groomed since the age of 3 like Stephon Marbury...your whole life, to be the savior of your entire family. a family that consisted of several siblings and relatives who were not fortunate enough to make the league. only to go to school and get injured while hoping to get a piece of paper that most will never use anyway. you have to realize that there are guys that had an injury douse their career hopes...while having a degree and still couldnt get a job with it. A degree DOES NOT guarantee a job.
Dont feel sorry for me.. I have a great life and I would never change anything.. However, I do not think that playing basketball compares to saving lives or grooming the future of the country..
I am done with this conversation because I am stubborn and will never see it the way you do untill I have been through what you have been through.. Also, you will never see it the way I do untill you have walked a mile in mine..
Money doesnt make things great but it does make things easier.. When you get sick, you dont have to chose between food for your kids or meds for your cold or whatever your situation.. If you have never been exposed to those types of situations, you would never understand..
Like I said, I have a great life and would never change anything... You keep your rational of these guys deserve something that they dont and I will keep mine that college will only help a persons life...
I was watching this NFL hall of fame speech Shannon Sharpe was getting inducted. He told a story of how he and his brother were raised by their grandmother. He said the coaches used to ask him why he worked so hard and he said it was because all his grandmother ever wanted was a ceiling that didn't leak. Now I'm getting off topic here and am not explaining the story fully, but its just an example of how playing a "game" and doing the workouts necessary to perfect it is actually work. Here is the speech if you ever care to hear it only 8 minutes long and very emotional and inspirational: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_Zmm4YHwg
You can never tell me that playing a game is harder than work...
well, its harder than my job....lol. yeah, they make my yearly salary in one game, or half, or quarter of....but working out as leisure is not the same as having to work out to keep up with other players. or having a weight contract in your clause. I can see my family anytime I like, I can spend time with my children anytime.
I know guys who were homeless and earned seven figure jobs for themselves, because they immersed themselves into their work to the point to where it consumed them. it takes a level of dedication. your idea of hard work is only relative to the type of work you have done. filing paperwork to me is not hard, but to someone who has never had to sit in one place for 6 hours...it may be.
most athletes work tremendously hard...I dont think you even understand how hard some of these athletes who we refer to as having the least of work ethic have to work.
If I lose my job...it may not be as stressful...because I can get another making the same or more....if they lose their jobs....thats pretty much all she wrote.
no one is entitled to anything. Tell Andre Drummond take his tail to UCONN, him, Jeremy Lamb, Shabazz Napier, that other recruit, they'll all win another championship. How many "straight from High School' BUSTS have there been compared to "injury kept me from my paycheck" players have there been. I like the 3-year rule, it evens out the playing field for these older vets, the overall IQ of the game will increase!!!
Imagine Gerald Green with 3 years of college, it would have change his mentality and maybe his BKB IQ
Jereme Richmond may have (but I doubt it) gotten drafted out of high school, but you can't go out and say that college isn't "for" him per se. If he could not play at a high level in college there is no way he is good enough for the NBA yet. The college game exposed all of his weaknesses and serves as a benchmark for what he needs to improve on to reach the next level. There is not a single player in the NBA that was not a standout player at the level they previously played on. Richmond screwed himself over by thinking he was better than he actually was(and how everyone else saw him) while forfeiting his chance at a college degree and an increased likelyhood of having a guaranteed NBA contract and being an NBA draft pick.
He will still probably make a lot of money playing basketball in his career- whether he makes it to the NBA or not. Basketball just happens to be a very marketable skill in today's world that is also very profitable
One problem that I see with that is a lot of programs will develop 6'8" guy to be a center therefore ruining any chance of having a successful pro career(Although it might help his team win in the college level) There are plenty of player that are just designed for the pro game(Rudy Gay, Deron Williams, Vince Carter) and I think many of them are better off developing into there pro position rather than be forced to fit whatever the college needs them to be.
I'm not saying that some players are better off developing in college but it would be wrong to force the players that develop faster to stay because others need time to develop...
Dirk Nowizki, Pau Gasol, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Luis Scola... didn't go to college...
Jereme Richmond may be going to prison. I am not talking about his level of play on the court at Illinois. I am talking about him being at a University where he didnt belong...being forced to be there all because he played basketball. If someone doesnt make it in the NBA, thats on them, going to college wont necessarily change that, depending on their skillset already. Vince Carter could not have came out of HS, his game wasnt ready...but that comes down to advice. The right people have to tell these guys to stay or go. Selby is a guy who I KNOW never would have went to college had that rule been in place. He has so many people ready to eat off of him its ridiculous. Thats not saying he wouldve been better or he wouldnt have gotten injured. The point is, what did it benefit Kansas by having a guy like that on the team and in the classroom? Hell, I am not even sure he finished his coursework....now you will have Bill Self trying to cover that sh!t up just so the school doesnt get probabation.
Wanting the IQ of the game to increase is being selfish. This is a job and we are the patrons. Switch positions and tell me you wouldnt do the same thing. When you talk about busts, you fail to mention how much money they made by busting. Jonathan Bender has made over $30 million in his career but he is labeled as one of the biggest busts in SPORTS history. Who here has earned $30 million for failing miserably in a career? I mean I have a family and children to support....and if I were Bender, I really dont know how would be able to look my family in the eyes after being such a failure.
...and which is it...do guys need to go to college to improve their game or to get a degree....make up your minds. You say tell Drummond to go to UCONN...well, tell Derrick Williams or Kyrie Irving to go back to college...see what they say. Irving's dad went on at the draft about all the trials and tribulations and hard work it took getting his son to that point...I dont remember one time him saying he regrets his son not getting a degree. Therein lies the hypocrisy..if Irving couldnt bounce a ball, he wouldnt be caught on Duke's campus, much less be able to afford tuition there.
If the NCAA wants these guys to stay for 3 years, they need to be paying them. Point blank.
Lebron would have saved him from his stupidity. 3 years is ridiculous, it needs to be 4.
No way the elite players are staying in college for three years, not when they can go overseas and make a few hundred thousand a year. I don't think the NBA wants to start losing the elite players to Euroleagues or worse, a South American or Caribean league that might start getting its games shown on U.S. television because the time zone works out. No way the Lebrons or D. Rose are playing college ball for basically free for three years when there are going to be other options.
this is true
8th deadly sin, I know how you feel. You study to get into college, to get your degree and a guy who plays ball makes more money in one year than you'll make your entire life. It feels unfair and it maybe is, but you can't say the guy didn't make a huge effort to get there. There are some that make it by pure talent and physicall skill with little to no effort, but most players practice a lot to make it and many more practice a lot and don't make it.
A player can have a carreer ending injury at any time, and he has to make as much money as possible as soon as possible, so that if he has that huge injury he can live a comfortable life and give a better life to his family.
The overseas argument can be true, but why don't players go there to play more often? European basketball isn't a huge joke where american high school players can just arrive and become stars. The game is different and the culture is different. Many players wouldn't be able to adapt and ruin their carreers. They would also be playing against grown men, so maybe college would still be a better choice.
Good work man, I understood everything you said and I couldnt of put it better.
I agree with deadly completely on this subject, I don't understand how an argument can be made, and stated that "you are perfecting your craft", and then in the same sentence say that going to college is detrimental to the progression of that craft, is quite frankly just an absolutely Riddiculous statement to make. That is completely why scholarships are offered to student athletes, just as to why they are offered to kids who excel in the classroom, you are getting ready to go out into the business world, just as you are in basketball, it is just that a business and you need to be prepared for that venture.
For every argument that states "well lebron and kobe made it", your argument is completely based on about that upper 5-10% of these kids that made this jump, and you completely ignore the majority. Allot of these kids who come into the league at the age of 18 or 19 yrs of age aren't ready to compete, and furthermore aren't ready for the lifestyle that comes along with it. Therefore they never find a niche in the league, and both the player and franchise suffer because of it. In addition allot of times these kids aren't ready as of yet physically or mentally for the grind that is required in the NBA game, yet another reason why college ball is so highly touted.
In addition as a fan i would support this route 10 times more as we actually get to see talented up and coming athletes grow into their ability, some of the greatest moments in the history of basketball have come from the college level. I for one would much rather see a top talent high school kid come play college ball for 3 years play deep into march, and play against kids on his skill level for 2-3 years, rather than watch a 18 yr old kid playing 15 minutes a game against 24-30 yr old men in their prime on a nightly basis and getting completely smashed physically and mentally over the first part of their careers.
I never said college was detrimental to a prospect improving his craft. I'm saying there are certain prospects that are good enough to go to the NBA immediately after college. Some of you act like players can't improve in the NBA. Think about it instead of worrying about classes or anything else school related your completely focused on basketball getting training with some of the best coaches in the world. Instead of playing out of position at the college level which happens to some prospects whats wrong with facing the real world and the NBA sooner to test you skills against the best of the best. What do you think helps players more? Dominating in college with sheer talent or playing average or below average your rookie year, figuring out you weaknesses and working on them to become better.
You guys act like college is required for success in the real world which just isn't true. Players do improve in college of course, but I'm making the argument that players improve more while in the NBA because they have the chance to completely focus on basketball. MJ stayed in college for two years his jumpshot and post game didn't improve greatly until he was in the NBA. It can be argued that he would have broken even more records if he was in the NBA longer. The fact is wether Jordan stayed in college all 4 years or no years if you're good you're good.
And as far as weeding out busts if they go to college. You'll still have guys who are busts and don't live up to expectations no matter what. There are so many players who dominate college, but don't do well in the NBA because of how different the college and NBA game is. There are also players who weren't very noteworthy in college, but become successful NBA players. Most scouts can tell if a player has the skills to play in the NBA and my argument is there better off working with professional coaches, getting private trainers and working year round on there craft instead of being forced to stay in college if they don't want to.
For an example Rajon Rondo spent 2 years in college, had problems with his coach and fell to the 21st pick in the draft. His game was better suited to the NBA than the restrictions that his coach and the college game had on him. Russell Westbrook spent 2 years in college and in his final year averaged 12.7 ppg. Most ppl felt he did not deserve to be the number 4 pick because though he showed flashes in college he wasn't great consistently. We know what happened from there. These are just a couple examples of players who were more suited to the NBA game than the college game.
There are players like Adam Morrison and J.J Reddick who are legends in college, but don't become more than average players at the NBA level. Again my point is if you can play, you can play and I don't know why guys should be denied the chance to come out as soon as they're ready.