[BallerScriptParticipant]

I’ve got a few questions surrounding this topic and I’ll just get the discussion started on it

Feel free to talk on any of these ideas

(By role player I mean a guy in the range of Patty Mills-Courtney Lee-James Johnson-Taj Gibson-DeMarre Carrol)

What are some traits in players that show strong role player potential?

What are some traits in players that show star potential?

In what range are you expecting a star and in what range are you expecting a role player?

What is more worth it, a player who shows good role player potential or a player that shows small signs of being a potential star?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GronounoursParticipant]

 Can we all agree to call this ‘basketball onanism’?

[ChewyParticipant]

 Role players

-Good teammate. No off the court drama.

-Above average 1 on 1 defender and good help defender

-Can hit a set shot (Bigs at least a jumper, don’t necessarily need a 3 pt shot)

-Make FTs!!! (Looking at you Roberson)

Star

-Must be able to create shots at any given moment (either for himself or a teammate by drawing a double team)

-Mentally tough (soft stars get numbers but don’t win ships)

-Loyal and driven (These are the players you sign for 4/5 years for a huge part of your cap. You need to know they won’t cry and ask to be traded at the first bump in the road. You also don’t want to sign a young player on his 2nd contract expecting him to continue to grow and then he gets lazy and complacent)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jerb2011Participant]

 By no means is he a super star offensively, but he is an ELITE on ball, off ball, and help defender. He cuts/slashes well, and can pass out of DHOs, can finish well. Just cant hit water even if he fell out of a boat.

 

 

[ChewyParticipant]

 He is a great complimentary player to how Wetsbrook plays, in every way… except FTs lol

[SubZeroParticipant]

I love Roberson for what he does defensively but I can’t wrap my head around someone being that bad at shooting. I’d rather take the game winning free throw in game 7 of the Finals than him take one in the 2nd quarter of a regular season game

[HitsterParticipant]

 I think Chewy has summed it up very nicely. I’d say a role player is effectively the guys who are 4th or below best players on a team after the star players and top running mates. Some teams may not have a legit star player but a number of very good players lets say Detroit at the moment so differentiating them there would be harder.

In a draft I’d say that with a top 5 pick you maybe think you should get a star player certainly with a top 3 pick. Anyone drafted lower than that who becomes a legit star player can possibly be seen as a bonus.

Some very good role players have been drafted too high but have had excellent careers as role players – Marvin Williams at Charlotte for example. He was a 2nd pick and whilst never making an All Star game or averaged 15ppg in a season, he is in his 13th NBA season has a contract for another two after this one, has played over 880 career games and is still a regular starter. Never a star but a perfect role player.

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 SUPERSTAR: Top 3 or 5 in the draft.

STAR: Top 5-10.  After that your chances of getting a star go down drastically.

ROLE PLAYER: Technically anyone not a star is a "role player" but I think players on the deep end of the bench don’t really qualify for that.  The "role players" are your top guys right outside of your CORE, or maybe even your fourth guy if that player is a high level role player.  So, 5-8 or 5-9 makes up your rotation which is a combination of a superstar (if your team is lucky), stars, and role players.  

Role players are sometimes found in the top 5 (and these guys are usually considered busts).  Players drafted in the 5-10 range COULD end up being high level role players and that might not be bad.  Shane Battier was drafted in this range (maybe even higher) as was Robert Horry.  Two hits there.  Although they had some unicorn characteristics to their games.  

Outside of the 10-25 range, your chances of even drafting a LEGIT role player goes down pretty big.  Most late first rounders probably turn into deep-bench utility players at worst.  Lots of second rounders don’t even make an NBA roster, or, not for long.

Playing the odds, you probably wouldn’t expect many superstars outside the top 3, not many stars even outside the top 5, and basically not outside the top 10.  "Core" role players are found in the 5-10 range or the 5-15 range.  "Role players" aka mid-level role players such as your fourth guy in a core, a complementary fifth starter, or a specialist 6th man or proverbial 3rd guard/3rd big can expect to be drafted no later than the mid to late first round — and even that would be a deep draft.

"Utility" third string point guards, third string centers, and two-way wings are what you would likely find in the last few picks of the first round, and sprinkled throughout the 2nd round.  Technically one of these types gets some minutes every night, and may even be part of a 9 man rotation, but I might not even call these guys role players, just utility players…  A role player does something well and helps you win (even if it is based mostly on intangibles, hustle, and veteran leadership).  A "utility" player mostly takes up space and gives your main core/rotation guys a rest.  If you are an average replacement-level type player then you are a "utility guy" and not really a role player.  

Ok, beyond that, for guys who don’t even take up space well, or who are technically "point guards" but can barely walk, dribble, and chew gum at the same time, well, these guys are SCRUBS.  They are on the team mostly because the team has 13 seats on the bench.  Mostly 2nd round picks, G League 2 way guys who haven’t yet worked their way up to "utility player" status, as well as guys who are in their mid to late 30’s who are just hanging on.  Although you could do WORSE drafting a cheap scrub in the mid/late 2nd round.

BUSTS: Guys drafted number 1 or somewhere in the top 3 who aren’t even "stars".  Or, guys drafted in the top 10 who might even be starters but aren’t great at at least one thing.  So, they aren’t what you would call a "high level role player".  Mid first rounders are expected to be role players, or at least utility guys.  If mid-first rounders (or highly touted late first rounders coming out of college) wash out of the league, then they can be considered BUSTS.  2nd rounders, by definition, probably can’t be considered BUSTS.  

Massive, maximum bust potential for players drafted in the 10-20 range.  High enough of a pick where your team expects something substantial in return, but these are generally guys who don’t possess a ton of flat-out talent.  SO, they are looking at having to focus on one or two things, so they either become (basically) role players (high level role players at best usually), OR they have to scrap their way to "utility player status", otherwise they end up being scrubs at the end of the bench, OR "busts" who wind up out of the league.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HeroescantdieParticipant]

 Giannis was drafted 15th.  Bennett was drafted 1st

[Kwame33Participant]

 He’s speaking generally. Of course this isn’t applicable to all drafts or players. Manu was drafted nearly last and IT actually dead last. But those are considered huge anomalies.

[HitsterParticipant]

 Shane Battier was one of the great modern intangibles players and an elite defender. Whilst he never put up great numbers, his value stood up and he was traded for 8th pick (Rudy Gay) in 2006 as Houston thought his game was a better compliment to T-Mac and Yao.

A lot depends on the depth of the draft class, often the very top guys may be of a similar level but at picks 3 to 6 some years you may have star quality and other years not.

Dennis Smith I personally thought had a lot of star quality but he fell to 9th this year in what was a deep draft.

 

  

[SubZeroParticipant]

I think one of the most important things for a role player is to be accepting of their role. Too many guys have role player skills but superstar mentalities

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