replace MJ with kobe at 34
i saw this earlier on espn.. check out this fun debate.. and what do you guys think??
I think the Lakers would've been better earlier on, but not even MJ could make this team successful with the poor coaching, lack of defense and then the injuries.
I think MJ would have gotten them to the playoffs at least
IF Dwight Howard can't stand Kobe's criticism, MJ would make him cry.
All I can say is.... Re-start the season and switch Kobe and Lebron, not only would they make the playoffs, Mike Brown would still have a job and possibly be in the COY conversation.
lets see is lebron is still all nba first team in his 17th nba season.
While I'm not sure LeBron will be able to do that because that's insane, LeBron right now is better then Kobe has ever been.
thats insane, but were about to see it done this year. As for prime kobe vs lebron and who is better, thats debateable.
I know we're going to see it this year and it truly is insane what he's doing. He has my respect. As far as who's better in their prime it may not be clear cut at this point it's becoming less and less debatable by the week.
IMO prime Kobe vs LeBron isn't really as close as u may think. Lebron can pretty much guard 5 positions makes teammates better and scores at an extremely efficient rate aswell as being a really good rebounder too.Kobe although a great scorer couldn't even sniff lebrons efficiency when he was in his prime, didn't make teammates better and although he was a great defender he couldn't guard all positions the way lebron does. Not trying to make Kobe sound garbage or anything as he is easily one of the games greatest players but lebron is in his prime rite now and is still improving it seems every year. He scores so effeicently and makes everything look so easy and we have never really seen any player do what he is doing rite now
LeBron will still be all NBA in his 17th season, he's been getting better every year since he came to south beach so there is no signs of him slowing down
at 28, i would hope hes not slowing down. his 17th season will be the year 2020. Lets check back then.
I don't know how he can keep going every year leading his teams in points, rebounds, assists without signs of slowing down
well an innocent comment about how great micahel jordan is and how he could still ball today turned into lebron is better then kobe somehow by the endless kobe bashers that are out there. So yeah, im gonna add my two cents and join in on the fun. But i guess im the one thats biased since im a laker fan.
I dont really think it's debatable between Lebron and Kobe, Lebron was arguably a better all-round player than Kobe ever was by the time he was 20.....
The way right now Lebron is playing he makes the game look more easy than anyone I've ever seen.
Dwight might have ended up dead in a ditch
Lebron does everything on the floor, Kobe is a scorer. That's always been the case. And before the "Kobe is an MJ clone" comments come in, Jordan was a guy averaging higher assist and rebound numbers earlier career and towards his peak. This wasn't a guy reluctant to pass, he was just obsessed with winning.
Whats been laughable is this "passing Kobe" that's happened this year. "What other superstar would sacrifice their scoring to get others involved" None, because players like Lebron and Jordan MAKE OTHER PLAYERS BETTER WITHOUT SACRIFICING THEIR SCORING.
Wow its funny how people go overboard with Lebron on this site...either people are talking how much he is a choker and he cant finish games... or he is the best in the Nba (which he is) and he will end up way better then Kobe when its all said and done which nobody knows yet....or if you guys know so much?
what will happen to KD career will he be better then Kobe too...
Lebron is better than Kobe. Lebron had no help in cleveland and he literally did everything for them. He leads the heat is points, rebounds and assists. He can do it all, it would be better if he could focus on scoring and creating for others, then we could see his true skills shine even more. Kobe had shaq for 3 championships, and he has played with a lot better players than lebron
i have no problem admitting lebron is better then kobe now...but saying lebron will past kobe on the all time list has not happened yet...will it happen we dont know yet...lebron has to win a couple more championships for that to happen....will see if he can get the heat past OKC in the playoff...cuz it base off championships not just stats alone...because if it is then Wilt will the best by far....followed by lebron and whoever...
Lebron James is really, really good!
The great thing about the way MJ and Lebron score(d) is that they make it look easy. They aren't thirsty scorers meaning they don't follow the ball everywhere it goes to get it, then over dribble and force impossible shots to get a shot off. Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant (there are others) are what I call great but thirsty scorers. And because they score in a way that is thirsty and in a way that appears that they feel they won't get the ball back then they hurt their teammates in the process.
The issue earlier on in LA is that Kobe treated Dwight (and others) like role players. His thirst to score meant that his talented teammates were left to get whatever Kobe decided to leave behind. This creates low morale on teams. Guys won't run the floor as hard. Guys won't defend as long because they are not included in the game.
Which also makes me laugh at the "6 game I'm going to pass" stuff. He is being applauded for this as if this isn't what he should be doing in the first place. Common sense says and the results suggest that the Lakers are simply better when Kobe treats his teammates as they are (Dwight, Pau, Nash); and that is that they are talented players who can make the game easier for each other instead of monopolazing the ball.
Last thing is what Lebron is doing is amazing. We are witnessing brilliance, efficiency, unselfishness, versatility, and power all in the same player. Truly amazing stuff he is doing! He dominates games while including his teammates. In other words...He isn't thirsty! He believes that if he just plays the game how it should play then the wins AND his numbers will follow.
That is why I believe MJ and Lebron are better than Kobe. It's not about all that other stuff people bring up although we can discuss it. It's simply that they played the game in a way that included their teammates.
Were you the one that said before, "kobe likes winning, but most importantly, above all, he likes to be the reason for winning."???
You know what i believe to be the truth about Kobe, nice post.
"The issue earlier on in LA is that Kobe treated Dwight (and others) like role players."... Straight up, he was making sure to establish himself as the best player in the team. He thought he could dominate the ball and others would just role play around his game.
He even went as far as saying him and Shaq were so dominant because they were two alpha males going at each other but that Dwight isn't an alpha male.
Coincidence the team started winning when Kobe went all out with passing? i think not.
The fact of the matter is Kobe should be playing around Dwight Howard's game, the 3rd best player in the NBA when healthy. But Kobe would never do that because it would hurt his career scoring and legacy.
Like 'ThePessimest' said in the Shabazz thread: When you have "guys who are [playing] with an agenda that is greater than winning, you will struggle." and Kobe Bryant has def. been chasing that scoring and forcing himself into being the best player in the team.
Dwight doesn't enjoy playing with Kobe, its not hard to tell Dwight is talking strictly about Kobe in these quote:
"Those guys on the Clippers team, they really enjoy each other off the court and it shows. It's something we have to do to get better."
"We have to play like we like each other. Even if we don't want to be friends off the court" -----Kobe doesn't enjoy playing with Dwight and he's known not to be friendly off the court.------
" You just don't come together and then expect to be best friends right away. It just doesn't happen like that."
As far as the answering to the alpha male comment: "You can't look at it as the alpha male. It's basketball. We're not a pack of wolves," "If you're an alpha male, you don't have to always show that you're the alpha male," he said. "Just be who you are. You come in the room, people know you're there." "My presence is felt every day, and I don't have to come here and growl and snarl at people. I don't have to do all that."
"(My teammates) like when I come in, have fun and enjoy myself. Because they want to have fun and enjoy themselves, too," Howard said. "If they can't do it, it's not a great working environment."
"I don't think you guys would want to come into work with a boss that's always telling you what to do. If you see the boss being at ease and having fun doing it, then you're going to have fun doing that. That's who I am. I've been an alpha male my whole life, but I don't go &$#%#&@! everywhere to show people that I'm an alpha male. I just need to be who I am."
You think Kobe Bryant should be playing around Dwight Howard? I don't know how that's possible when Howard isn't a great offensive player. He's not a great post up player. He's not a great passer out of double teams. He's an absolute liability at the free-throw line.
Then your very first post in this thread didn't make sense. You're comparing a 34 year old Kobe past his prime to a 28 year old LeBron in his prime. That's silly. Of course LeBron is better. He's supposed to be right now. Let's not act like Kobe has never carried a bum team to the playoffs. You might want to look up the 2005-2006 NBA season when Kobe led a trash team to the playoffs and was All NBA 1st Team and All NBA Defensive 1st Team while being ranked 3rd in player efficiency.