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Reasons why we need the Point System

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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Reasons why we need the Point System

Learning from MikeyV with these long threads. Lmao, no disrespect. It's a compliment bro

There has been a lot of speculation as to why the point system was taken off. Most people say that points do not really matter and they are useless. In my personal opinion, that is not true. Points can dictate whether or not an idea that somebody posted made sense or not. It dictates whether or not a person is a good poster or not. We don't see guys that have tons a negatives make sound decision, for the most part.

Granted, there are the jerks that decide to give negatives just for fun but there are always going to be those kind of people on this site. Take a look at 4thDimension. The first thing he did when he realized that the point system was gone, was call everybody idiots. Why? Because there was no way for him to be apprehended. Yeah, he could have called everybody ignorant idiots even when the point system was there, but most of us got a good laugh after seeing so many negatives.

Not only that, the site grows because of the points system. There are tons of competitive people that want to go post threads and prove they can be one of the top point-getters. There are tons of people that want to show they have the basketball knowledge to compete with llperez, MikeyV, and JNixon. The point system simply attracts people who want to be competitive and want to get more points than others. And how do they get more points? They become better posters and recognize what is good basketball material and what is not.

There will always be people that whine about points. The people that get tons of negatives after negatives and then wonder why they cannot be correct in the eyes of the other users, usually improve. We've seen some guys that were horrible posters on this site and we've seen them gradually improve. Why? Because of the negatives. They begin to pile up and as much as they do not mean anything, people like to be noticed and given credit for good decisions.

The point system actually made most of us better posters. I know it made me a much better poster. Guys that barely join the site and make ridiculous posts such as paradigm, ScareCrow, OhCanada, and myself learned from our mistakes because of the negatives. We wanted to prove we can be better and we wanted to learn. The positives began piling up after we learned what was good basketball information, what were good basketball decisions, and when we started writing legit basketball material. Negatives points begin to show us that we've been posting some ill-advised basketball material.

If it weren't for the point system, I would still be an ignorant basketball fan that does not look at both sides of the situation and says extremely questionable things. Of course, I still do those things, as some people do at times, but we do them less consistently. We begin putting out good basketball material because we like getting credit for what we do.

If it weren't for points, we wouldn't have McDunkin's jokes. If it weren't for points, we wouldn't have passionate guys like ASDF22, wardb12 and paradigm who are fighting to try to gain some respect. If it weren't for points, we wouldn't have memphis_tyga23 with all of his pop quiz type threads. If it weren't for points, I would have never improved as a poster.


MagikKnick
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tl;dr
Chrischi
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Sorry, but I disagree with

Sorry, but I disagree with you. If people would use the point system properly it would be great. But so would communism.

The problem is people will not give you thumbs up or down for the right reasons. Guys like Mr.Knick got thumbs down every post, just because some haters didn't like him. People will give you thumbs down instead of explaining why they disagree with you. I saw countless posts with someone stating something, one person replied but the first poster had -5. That's just stupid. It was fun playing around with it and giving guys -60 because they think Carmelo and Billups for Bynum and Artest is good trade, I admit that, but it just ruins the general level of discussion. People are now forced to explain why they disagree with you, instead of taking the easy way out by just giving you a "thumbs down".

Evidence Nr.1:

I could have just given this thread a -1. You wouldn't know why. But instead I wrote my opinion and tried to explain you why I think differently.

What do you prefer?

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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I understand what you're

I understand what you're saying Chrischi.

I believe the best way to settle this is by installing a new point system. One that the user who receives the negative can see who gave them the negative and the user who gave the negative point must give a 30 letter response as to why the negative was given.

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That would be an option.

That would be an option.

omphalos
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I thought I'd add that I like

I thought I'd add that I like the point system because it gives some meaning to our posts; I could say, boy, I've sure spent a whole lot of time on nbadraft.net, but at least I've got something to show for it (points), even if they are essentially arbitrary.

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Maybe Aran just suspended it

Maybe Aran just suspended it momentarily due to the high traffic this site has this time of year???? Since the "my points" section is still available I'm going to guess he did not delete it entirely but rather suspended it for a while.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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I agree with omphalos. Now

I agree with omphalos. Now when we write something, it seems as if we aren't getting enough credit.

Da1pot, I sure hope so.

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I could go either way on the

I could go either way on the points, but I feel one of the things that makes this site great is the high user traffic and if the points are a partial reason why so many people post here then leave them. It would be a shame if the user rate went down because of the points, but I'm hopefull that won't happen.

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It is kinda weird that we all

It is kinda weird that we all still have points, despite the point system being gone.

A bit unfair to the newer users, they will kinda look bad next to the guys with 500+ points.

Maybe we could take the Facebook route and only allow "+" points, I mean you don't have to explain why you agree with someone, plus that way it will be impossible to "hate" on someone by taking away all the points.

omphalos
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I don't know about positive

I don't know about positive only stuff, negatives give people a way of disagreeing without having to actually write it out, which could come across as a personal attack. I actually really like the points system as it was, once you get used to how people use it, it can be very useful in judging how people gauge a particular comment.

As an aside, I always think of Fight Club when I think of the points system; the first rule of points is you don't talk about points... the only surefire way to lose points is to talk about them (except in this case obviously).

Anton123
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*negatives give people a way

*negatives give people a way of disagreeing without having to actually write it out, which could come across as a personal attack

But that seems like the bad side of the point system, you're making it sound like it's something positive.

Or I was just too foolish to understand your point.

Scottoant93
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I just liked the points

I just liked the points because it was feedback. When I first started I got up to about -100, then I gradually started climbing out of the negs. You do become a better poster(not all my points came from pics, and stupid comments but a majority of em yes), and it helps, I am going to work on getting more serious though. Also as for the popularity thing, I dont think thats exactly true i would be deep in the negs, Its more as how you say things(which is hard to say behind a computer), example- if someone disagrees with you, keeping backing your comment up with facts(if you have any), instead of calling the other person an dumb@SS or something.

The UnderKanter
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Well then, I must be the

Well then, I must be the exception to all this. Because I've been in the negatives ever since I joined, yet I don't think I sound like an idiot and nor do I call anyone else an idiot. (Well except for a few people but they deserve it.)

  1. The point system has not made me smarter. My posts have stayed the same, point system or not. I'd much rather receive feedback on my posts be reading it in comments instead of just guessing by looking at the points. Why did I say "guessing" because some people just neg people because they simply hate them. (Which I think is just dumb)
  2. Yes, I admit the point system might have made this site more popular, more addictive, and more active but if the point system does that than that just means that people are relying on something superficial to make them feel more superior. I'm sorry but I'd rather feel more superior by seeing people congradulate me in comments or by seeing parts of my posts that actually make sense and make a good argument. I think it is really low to have to need some superficial thing such as points to make you feel inferior.
  3. The reason why everyone is commenting on this and saying whether they hate it or not is because it was there for quite awhile and now its gone. The problem is when it was there people were getting used to it and they were seeing the good side to the point system. (Yes, I admit there is a good side but we are abusing it) Now that its gone people actually feel a void in their lives and they fight like crazy to get it back. Do you see how low that it is. That's what this site has become because of the point system.

I'm glad that it was deleted and I hope that our actual points get deleted as well.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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wardb12 The point system

wardb12

The point system isn't supposed to make you smarter... the amount of negatives you receive, you're supposed to change the way you think and the way you express your opinions as well as making sound decisions and threads. The fact that you have failed to evolve as you receive negatives, is not the point system's fault.

Scottoant93
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wardb12

How is that low?, Its not like anyone has stopped commenting on this site, The points system was flawed but a lot people stated they wanted to add a thing where you explain why you gave them a neg, That would improve greatly in my opinion so you could ignore the trolls, and you take into consideration the real facts of why people disagree with you, btw I gave you alot of points, and barely given you or anyone for that matter negs. Also of course people are goin to talk about the change, eventually everyone adapts and they move, simple fact of life, it happens all the time in the real world, not just on this site

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I think the main thing to me

I think the main thing to me is that when someone made a good post, I could just give him a "+", now I will either have to tell him the post is good (which is great, but if everyone does that every topic would just be lots of "good point" post) or just do nothing, which isn't too nice if I actually like his post.

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Comments to TOL23 and ASDF22

TOL23: I've gotten tons of negatives. I've tried to improve and make my posts smarter but all I get is more negatives. That's how the system has not made me smarter. I really do think that more and more people are just giving me negatives because they hate me not realizing that I was trying to make my posts smarter.

ASDF22: What I'm saying is low is that people are saying they actually need something as superficial as points to make them feel inferior and smarter. I'm actually in favor of giving reasons for you thumbs up or thumbs down. The problem is people never do give reasons. They just "neg" you or give you positives just because they feel like it. I was commenting on how the system is, not on people suggesting ways to make it better. What I think is really low is the second part. How so many people are commenting on it, because they think it feels a void in their life and now that they have lost it, they are fighting to get it back. (I know its normal that they are talking about it (and I respect that), but I've seen more posts begging for it to come back, like they can't imagine life without it.

You see how much better this is? I could have easily just given you two negatives but instead I state why and I'm certain that you two more understand what I was saying.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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Well, I guess it simply does

Well, I guess it simply does not work for everybody. I know it definitely made me a much improved poster.

Scottoant93
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I mean i get your point about

I mean i get your point about people giving people negs for no reason and I agree with you, but i also agree with tol23 about making people better maybe not everyone but it does work. Your honestly not that bad in the negs anyway compare to the numbe of posts you've written, so I dont think people exactly hate you(i dont, dont take this a personal thing), either way the system is gone for now or maybe forever but im still gonna post on here, I almost always give people my opinion if i give them a neg(unless its constanly being repeated) or point( if I have further insight on it)

edit: also why does my pic keeping switching back between the wierd black ghost, and the messed up eye.

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Replay to ASDF22 and TOL23

Yeah I'm not that far in the negatives, but I still hear people telling me "you're one to talk, look at your points" They may not say it straight out, but they mean it by what they have said.

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My Top 3 point suggestions 1.

My Top 3 point suggestions

1. Allow you to see who gives you a negative.

2. Only people who comment in the thread may give or take points.

3. Make the only option positives.

Hitster
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I like Yupyup's idea, it

I like Yupyup's idea, it would be nice to see who gives points or deducts them from you although it could create a system whereby you started giving points in return or taking them off posters who took them off you.

I certainly agree that you should have to post on a topic before you can add or deduct points from any other posts on the topic.

Points are nice to have and I did check where I was on the overall table from time to time and see what posts got me the points so I could consider what to write or cut out bad posts.

BKKnicksfan
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Lol, we don't need a point

Lol, we don't need a point system at all.

Awesome-O-420
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I agree in principle with a

I agree in principle with a lot of what TOL23 said, and maybe I'm not the one to speak to this cause I'm obviously new here, but in my short time here, it seemed like the easiest way to get points was to post something funny that didn't have much to do with basketball, or to post a cliche` topic that 99% of the basketball universe agrees on - example I got a ton of points on an older thread for stating I'd have LBJ on my team and pretty much everyone else said the samething and got points, but people who tried to come up with someone they'd start with other than LBJ were negged, even though some of the guys they've listed could be argued have more upside to be winners, (not better players but winners) since LBJ has been in the league 7 years now and no ring. Guys who would try to go against the grain and come up with a new argument, although sound, people would neg them just because they didn't like what is being said.

I don't like the Heisenburg principle, but it doesn't mean I go out and try to $h!t on anyone who tells me I'll never be able to teleport from my couch to the toilet between commercials so I don't miss any of the game.

Again I agree with TOL23,ASDF22 and a few of the following posts that mention giving negatives as a way to disagree without having to type stuff out, but in the short time I've been here, although I've been reading this site and it's forums for well over a year, just never joined until now, is that people tend to give positive points for regurgitating the same old stuff or nothing at all, and neg when somebody tries to excercise original thought.

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Just my two cents There has

Just my two cents

There has been a lot of speculation as to why the point system was taken off. Most people say that points do not really matter and they are useless. In my personal opinion, that is not true. Points can dictate whether or not an idea that somebody posted made sense or not.

- Not True at all, It doesn't dictate a post made sense at all.

It dictates whether or not a person is a good poster or not. We don't see guys that have tons a negatives make sound decision, for the most part.

- Super not true and I'm just talking about myself either. People can make be in the negatives and make a couple good posts and people disagree. Should you get a negative if people disagree?

Granted, there are the jerks that decide to give negatives just for fun but there are always going to be those kind of people on this site.

- Not if you take the points away...

Not only that, the site grows because of the points system. There are tons of competitive people that want to go post threads and prove they can be one of the top point-getters.

- Like who? I never saw someone say....Damn, I have to be number one without joking about it.

There will always be people that whine about points. The people that get tons of negatives after negatives and then wonder why they cannot be correct in the eyes of the other users, usually improve. We've seen some guys that were horrible posters on this site and we've seen them gradually improve. Why? Because of the negatives.

- Like who? Please don't tell me Scarecrow ( No offense to the dude) but he's the same poster. He makes bad deals like the rest of us as well. We all do. Noone has "Improved" because of negatives

They begin to pile up and as much as they do not mean anything, people like to be noticed and given credit for good decisions.

- Not really

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BK did you just say people

BK did you just say people dont like to be complimented. lol.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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- Not True at all, It doesn't

- Not True at all, It doesn't dictate a post made sense at all.

I'm pretty sure they do. I've see some ridiculous posts get tons of negatives. (i.e. Chicago Bulls must rebuild and all these ridiculous DNYCE-esque trades)

- Super not true and I'm just talking about myself either. People can make be in the negatives and make a couple good posts and people disagree. Should you get a negative if people disagree?

Should people give negatives if they disagree? Depends on the situation. If I tell you DRose is not going to improve, then that's obviously calling for a negative. If I tell you Melo is better than Durant and you disagree, if you feel as if it's an absurd comment, you can give me a negative. (Not saying you disagree or agree with what I just said, just in general) Also, the best way to solve this problem is by people having to write out a 30 letter reason as to why they gave a positive or a negative.

- Not if you take the points away...

There will still be jerks that go around calling everybody idiots and ignorant dumb@sses.

- Like who? I never saw someone say....Damn, I have to be number one without joking about it.

I'm pretty sure there are more people around here who want to be one of the top point getters, most won't admit it. When I had -500 points when I had just started, I wanted to have 1,000. That was my goal. Once I reached that, my next goal was 2,000 and then 3,000 and so on. So I don't necessarily mean they want to be #1 but they want to have a certain amount of points.

- Like who? Please don't tell me Scarecrow ( No offense to the dude) but he's the same poster. He makes bad deals like the rest of us as well. We all do. Noone has "Improved" because of negatives

Me.

- Not really

You don't because you have negatives. I know that when I write a long post, I like to see a couple of thumbs up because I know people took the time to read it and agreed or disagreed with what I stated.

Hale
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A long time ago before

A long time ago before McDunkin and most of those guys came I wanted to be the top point getter. Then I left for a long time, came back and was down a few thousand points and basically gave up on that.

Scottoant93
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haha the points system is

haha the points system is sort like a game, you have the reach the next level(or thousand in tol23 case) I do that too, i dont really get mad when i get a negative, it kind of make it more fun since there is something stopping you from reaching your goal. but he is a example of people turning on you on this site.

example- someone posted heat would beat celtics in 5, i said he was crazy, got like 10-14 pts for that, after heat won in 5, same guy posted a thread stating he was right(amazing prediction btw), and posted a link of the previous thread where i said he was crazy(all those positves turned neg.), I later congratulated him on his prediction and admitted being wrong(as i almost always do) and i got negged for that too

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"example- someone posted heat

"example- someone posted heat would beat celtics in 5, i said he was crazy, got like 10-14 pts for that, after heat won in 5, same guy posted a thread stating he was right(amazing prediction btw), and posted a link of the previous thread where i said he was crazy(all those positves turned neg.), I later congratulated him on his prediction and admitted being wrong(as i almost always do) and i got negged for that too"

Your example condridicts the positives mentioned about the point system. Your example highlights that people neg simply to just neg, and give positives for liking what you said, not because you made a good argument but simply because they liked what you said. What you said was a popular thing at the time, cause people don't like the Heat. But you never explained anything to it, just said he was crazy. The point system sounds more like a popularity contest than it does a measure of an intelligent argument. Every point I got, was by just saying things I know people like but it's lazy and it's banal.

I'm personally impartial to the point system, I don't think it does much either way. Without it though, it looks like people are posting more since they can't simply give a -1 to someone's comments. I don't mind reading, so I personally like seeing people respond and giving a reason besides just a neg.


Scottoant93
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^^^^ actually my full comment

^^^^ actually my full comment was that he was crazy, heat do not have a bench where as the celtics do, therefore the heat will lose..something along those lines, i got negged because i said he was crazy,, and i was wrong.

Scottoant93
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exact wording wont let me edit last psot

haha your out your mind. Boston is gonna kill miami, and even if miami wins its gonna go 7. I say Boston in 6

Miami is watered down after the big 3, unless some of thier bench players step up, thye wont go far. Is Haslem back yet? He would be one of those good players

i have stated people neg for no reason i liked tol23 idea of 30 word comment on negs., but its not really a popularity contest, if it sounds crazy at the time, they just negged me because i was wrong basically anyone who disagreed was negged

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Thank you for the compliment

I think for the most part, if you get negative points and do not vie to become a better poster, than you are probably either a troll or not really being reflective. I may be wrong, it may not be the end all be all, after all, they are not worth anything monetarily and worth whatever you make them worth existentially. While it is difficult to differentiate between the two, and maybe even annoying to get a bunch negs without responses, I find for the most part that people who get negged usually get responses telling them why. I do not recall an overly negged response being blank.

Yes, they are not the end all be all, and yes, this site would still be good without them as long as we have our loyal group of posters, but I have grown fond of the system and while it is not perfect, it is better than nothing. The most responded to topics now are not even close to being about basketball, and this is getting incredibly tedious. I think TOL is 100% right in that the point system has made A LOT of people better posters, and if you only think you are negged because of a personal vendetta, the odds are you are not putting as much time and effort into your posts as you should be if you want to be thought of as a respected basketball mind.

This is not to anyone in particular, but to people upset about being negged, you guys need to learn from your mistakes rather than keep making them over and over again. I try to learn from mine, and I take accountability for them. Points have made me a much better poster and have made this board that was really good even that much better. They may not be an incredible incentive, but they are a somewhat competitive incentive, and while it drags in people who misuse the system, I think it does much more good than harm.

Tongue-Out-Like-23
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I agree with MikeyV

If someone is being negged frequently, it's usually not because you are disliked, rather the fact that you have not adapted and became a better poster. While points may be worthless in terms of physical value, one gets a sense of satisfaction when positives come their way. Negatives work the same way, you learn that there was something wrong in either your logic or the way you expressed it.

paradigmn
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SOOO MIKEY

well...u know Aran better than most....every negative post about him, u the first one on the scene defending him, So whats the deal....has he said anything about the POINTS????....only an idiot would think that the point system was a bad idea....seems like majority of the sites users want points thus I would think its a "no brainer" to get them back....so why dont we just get one of his trusty sidekicks from the site to give him a foot job and a reach around and get these points back up on the site!!!

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/\

It's only down temporarily, he's working on bring it back.

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BloodyCrumpet aka NoMoney

Can't wait to bring up that thread made by 4thdimension if this is indeed true. I'd love to see the negatives on that one.

BloodyCrumpet
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He

"Guys, have no fear. The points aren't gone for good. Our tech people are working on restoring them. Should not be too long..."

- Aran "Parmesan Chicken" Smith

Source

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NO money=bloody crumpet???

is this ture....is bloody crumpet really NO MONEY....I had BEEF with no money....dude was an arrogant fk stain....maybe BLOODY and I could get along better...hope the changing of the SN changes they way you treat new viewers who might not be aware of all the "un-written" rules of this site....I will give u the benefit of the doubt from this day forward.

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I

I am NoMoney, and a different screenname won't change the fact that I'm an "arrogant fk stain".

I probably don't deserve the benefit of your doubt, though I appreciate the thought.

mikeyvthedon
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Stop being down on yourself Crumpet

Paradigmn, dude, I have met Aran once, for about 15 minutes. I think it is awesome he made this site. I know nothing about what happened to the points and when they are coming back. Also, give Crumpet the benefit of the doubt, as you can at times be misinterpreted, we all can, I am no different. We do not know each other, we can only guess from each others posts and sense of humor what sets us off or what it means when we say certain things.

Sometimes when I am trying to be humorous, I may sound like an @ss, well, it might be different in real life. I just defend Aran over a lot of posters on here, because he does this for a living and usually has much more knowledge about this than most Mock Draft makers on this site who seem to go ape when their is one thing off putting in the sites Mock Draft. That is basically what I was doing, I was trying to get you to understand where one might be coming from rather than "defending Aran", but, it is all one's perception. You seem to get defensive and miss that at times. So, sorry if I came off as a fanatic, but I very much have my own opinions as well and was just trying to calm down what I deemed as overreaction but not only you. It was universal, as most of my posts try to be.

paradigmn
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LOL

dude...this is talking about basketball...LOL...i got a life outside of HOOPS believe it or not....I dont get $$$ talking basketball....its fun to me...simple....Like u said...its hard to inturpret what people really mean on the internet....I am very new to internet chatting and writing in general....I was never a big computer guy...thus I might not be able to express myself as adequetly as others....I could care less if Aran drafts JACOB PULLEN at #1...dont make a differnece in my life....but you defintely seem to defend Aran a bit too emphatically and u said u met him...so I asked u about the point system since I thought u would know best.

Scottoant93
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haha nomoneys is not a

haha nomoneys is not a fkstain hes just sarcastic,your new so you eventually will understand him haha

as for the points coming back 4th dimension is gonna have a heart attack when he wakes up one day comes back on the site and sees all those negs could calling himself the smartest poster and us arrogant idiots

aamir543
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Bloody crumpet, you are not

Bloody crumpet, you are not necesarily right, I am thrilled that No Money is gone, for good hopefully, but although No Money is simply reincarnated into Bloody Crumpet, that does not really bug me, I am just glad that No Momey is gone. In fact, I feel sort of like how these guys felt.

Hopefully I wont have the same ending as them.

BloodyCrumpet
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Why?

"I am thrilled that No Money is gone, for good hopefully"

Why?

I'm just curious. Still not sure if you're serious or not.

And ASDF22 thanks for sticking up for me, though I reject the idea that I am sarcastic. I'd call myself "playfully dull" instead.

aamir543
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Nah im just kidding, no hard

Nah im just kidding, no hard feelings

aamir543
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as far as 4th D goes, can we

as far as 4th D goes, can we neg him off the site when the points get back?

BloodyCrumpet
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/\

Aran instituted a new "DNYCE law", that makes it so anybody who reaches -24,000 points is automatically banned from the site.

McDunkin
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I hated the point system

I hated the point system

BloodyCrumpet
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I think

I think that McRapist has kidnapped the Point System and is hiding it in his attic. At night, he pours body chocolate all over it and licks it off...

Slowly...

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