Reason for Bulls' Struggles
I'm tired of everybody defending Rose. This lovefest has gone too far. I understand everybody has fallen in love with him game and I'm not hating. Hell, I was the first one that dubbed him the MVP at the beginning of the season when everybody hated on me. Let's cut the crap though.
The reason why the Bulls are struggling is because Derrick Rose isn't producing at the level he's suppose to be. He's the MVP and is getting shut down by a team. Sound familiar? When LeBron was getting bounced by a TEAM while he was in Cleveland? Boston Celtics? Yeah, and everybody hated on LeBron. They said LeBron was the MVP but couldn't get over the hump and couldn't beat an actual team. He got so much hate for what he went through prior to "The Decision". It's only fair to point the finger at Derrick Rose. Shooting 36% for the series is not going to cut it. 3.8 turnovers a game with 6.3 assists a game is terrible. Not to mention, he's averaging a dismal 23ppg this series.
You're going to say, "he doesn't have enough help". Did you guys watch game 4? Boozer had 20pts and 11rebs. Deng had 20pts and 8 rebs. Their bench was only outscored by 5 points. Noah had 14rebs and 6asts. Where did the weakness come from? Derrick Rose. He shot a horrible 8-27 (29%) for only 23 points. Not to mention he had 6asts and 7 turnovers. He also missed clutch shot after clutch shot. He was obviously afraid of the moment and afraid of LeBron James.
Now, let's look at game 3. Deng had his average 14pts and 7rebs. Boozer carried the team with 26pts and 17rebs. Noah didn't have much of a game but Gibson came off the bench with energy and 11pts and Asik came in and played big minutes along with good defense. The Chicago bench thoroughly outscored the Miami bench. Derrick Rose choked in the final quarter of the game. He took only two shots and his last shot came with 7:36 left in the 4th quarter. He finished the game with 20 points and 5 assists. Not an MVP-like performance in a crucial game 3.
Game 2. Again, the Bulls bench did their job by outscoring the Heat bench. Now, I'll admit. This has been the only game this series that Noah, Boozer, and Deng didn't show up at all. They all combined for 29 points, as did LeBron by himself. Rose's performance was still horrible. 21 points and 8 assists while shooting 7-23. Wade shot only 16 shots and had 24 points. Now, this game can't be blamed on Rose completely, but he sure didn't do enough to put his team into good position to win the game in the final stretch.
That brings me to game 1. Derrick Rose didn't shoot particularly well, 10-22. He had 4 turnovers and 6 assists. I'll give him credit where credit is due, they could not have won the game without him, obviously. The Miami Heat were overwhelmed by the size, rebounding, and defense that the Bulls brought. Boozer had his average game, as did Noah. Deng and the Bulls bench took a huge step forward, not just offensively, but defensively.
With all that said, I think it's time to start pointing the finger at Rose and stop defending him because of how humble he is. He's a great player but just like he gets credit where credit is due, you have to place the blame accordingly. Argue with me all you want on this topic, but Rose has not led his team the way he was suppose to. You could use the whole, "Well, the Heat have three superstars!" Nobody used that argument every year LeBron was bounched from the playoffs by the Celtics.
If so much blame was placed on LeBron the last couple of years, it's only fair to start placing blame on the shoulders of Derrick Rose, the MVP.
I agree. I think that Miami is the better team and Rose would have had to carry this team for them to win. He didn't. He needed multiple 30 pts 10 assists games and he didn't do that.
Rose improved his jumpshot and 3pt shot this season a lot, but when he faced strong, playoff defense he didn't shoot the ball well. Give him time, he's still young and can and will improve, but this year he wasn't able to carry his team past the Heat.
How about this, that neither of them get as much blame that is being placed on them. To me, the only thing I blame LeBron for last year was his incredibly awful Game 5 performance against Boston. Other than that, while it appeared that something was definitely off, what happened was that the better team won. Can you honestly say that Derrick Rose as a third year player is going to outperform LeBron James and Dwyane Wade? Saying he is averaging a "dismal" 23 ppg just proves that the guy is not getting a lot of help. The fact he had to average 25 ppg in the regular season probably attributed to him winning the MVP, but there is little to no way you want your PG having to do that on a nightly basis. At least not if you want to be a competitive team.
Yes, Luol Deng has been doing his part, and Boozer has been doing alright the last couple of games, but for the most part, D-Rose is getting very little help. Those role players you want hitting shots, well they have not been holding up their end of the bargain. Kyle Korver and Taj Gibson needed to have those Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem games. Because honestly, if they do not, than we are probably saying the same things you are saying about Derrick Rose about LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.
Congrats on calling Rose MVP before the season, I give you credit, he deserved it. But, it still did not change the fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James are better players. Rose has struggled, but the Bulls have no other ways to produce offense and have an incredibly difficult time spreading the floor. Keith Bogans has been averaging 4.5 ppg, so has Kyle Korver, not to mention his 28% shooting from the field. Can you imagine Steve Kerr shooting like that on Michael Jordan teams? Not to mention he had a guy named Scottie Pippen who could also create a shot once in a while. Joakim Noah has not exactly helped matters either. This is the guy who has mainly been getting the call on Chris Bosh, how has that been working out for him? Not to mention, he is averaging a little over 6 per game. All of these dips I have pointed out in production for these guys are incredibly significant, and I think Derrick Rose has been doing everything he can and they are coming up short as well.
The best player will always get the blame, they are of course the ones who need to have magical incredible Jordanesque performances to help their teams win. But, what people forget is that Michael Jordan had teammates, who he helped to reach their full potential. I believe Derrick Rose is very much trying to help his reach theirs, but they are VERY limited offensively. I mean, if Derrick Rose has to average more than 25 ppg in this series, which he clearly would, than they are in trouble. I believe Deng is the only one who has consistently given them production in this series, everyone has else has been all over the place. The Heat are also playing fantastic defense, and Chris Bosh has shredded the Bulls from the midrange. I am surprised the Bulls have not been a lot more physical, but they are really giving the Heat opportunities to create.
The bottom line is this, people are always going to blame star players for not stepping up, and on the whole, Rose has had a very subpar series. Still, it is his third year in the league, and when LeBron made the Finals against the Spurs in his fourth year, people ripped him for shooting poorly and not getting his team involved when they had similar limitations to Rose. Rose is playing with better players than LeBron was, but honestly, will Rose ever be the individual player LeBron James is? He won MVP, he is an incredible player and explosive athlete, but LeBron James is a different specimen. To put Rose in that category, much less when he is playing a team with Dwyane Wade, a player who lead a much more complete team, with players who stepped up, in his third year in the league, is grossly unfair.
Expectations for some of these guys are just flat out of line right now. Of course they should take their lumps, but I feel like people put LeBron under a microscope and he will always be held to a higher standard simply for the fact that he has the potential to do things at a level close to Michael Jordan, but for the most part has yet to do so (apart from Game 5 vs. Detroit in 2007, and Game 2 vs. Orlando in 2009). Two wrongs do not make a right, and while Kevin Durant/Derrick Rose still have a lot to work on before living up to the incredible hype placed on both of them, I do not know if they deserve to be rocked like they probably will be. They both are on teams with some very noticeable limitations and are both incredibly young. Give them time before giving them ridiculous labels that have unfortunately been placed on other players before they have finally won.
Oviously Rose is a star and he's such a determined player he is gonna learn alot from this series, but the shot he threw up over Lebron at the end of regulation was crzy, I think it was Deng off to his left...Didn't have a defender anywhere near him. It may have cost them the game but unlike alot of players in the league Rose will learn from it!!
CP3 won't shoot 4/58 4 assists 9 TO poor decision making, poor shot selection against the heat in an OT defeat....
Except dunkin like a SG and with lay ups on open floor, he could not buy a bucket, sad for THE MVP, for A PG...
I really think a big part of the Bulls struggle is as simple as Kyle Korver not hitting his 3 point attemtps, he was lights out early in the playoffs and his shooting helped the Bulls win games they played awful in, but now that the Bulls are meshing a little better Korver is ice cold and his extra offense is something that could have easily swung at least one of the 3 games the Bulls lost ( game 4 in particular).
I hear you MikeyV, and I was not expecting Rose to come out and have a 30ppg series and take Miami to the brink of elimination. Those were not my standards for him. My main issue with Rose's fans is that he does not receive enough blame. Anything you read about him or listening to any analyst on ESPN or other television/radio networks, all you hear is, "Well, Noah didn't step up this game, well Boozer didn't step up this game, well the bench didn't step up this game, well Deng didn't step up." Its getting out of hand that the media go out of their way to protect this young and humble star.
Rose is an incredible player and I understand he will most likely never be at the level of a Dwyane Wade, much less a LeBron James. When you're the star of your team, you get the glory and you get the blame. This is a different situation though. Derrick Rose is not getting any of the blame. The only times I've heard him receive some critiscm is when he took a questionable shot over LeBron James in game 4, make that two questionable shots.
His team is playing very well. Deng is playing 44+ minutes and guarding LeBron every second they're both on the floor. Not only that, he's scoring and rebounding decently well. Noah has been doing much of the dirty work as well as passing the ball very well. Boozer is near his career average in points and rebounding very well. Not to mention, they are player stellar team defense and are monsterous on the boards. Somehow Rose seems the be struggling the most and his team is getting all of the blame? That is what I don't agree with.
I see what you're saying but this is what I'm talking about. A big part of the Bulls' struggles isn't Kyle Korver. Yes, Korver has been a problem, he's shooting 3-11 from behind the arc this series. Even if he were to had made 2 or 3 extra shots, his shooting would be 6-11, which is good from behind the arc, but those 6-9 points would not have shaken a game as dramatically as Rose would have if he was playing at the level he's capable of. Saying Kyle Korver is a big part is correct, but he isn't the main key to this series. I don't think anybody would agree when saying if Kyle Korver was making threes, it would be more important than Rose actually scoring and shooting better. I'm not saying that's what you said, because it wasn't, I'm just pointing that out.
The biggest part is Rose's struggles. Anybody can sugar coat it and say Boozer should be averaging 20 points, or Noah should be averaging 10 or Korver should be shooting 40% from 3, but at the end of the day, if Rose wasn't turning the ball over like he is and if he'd be taking/making better shots, they wouldn't have been in this hole.
23, I agree with what you're saying about Rose and I wasn't trying to switch focus to Korver at all, Rose is still the best player and he isn't playing up to his level. I was very frustrated when he was trying to shoot 19 footers over Lebron James in the two chances he had to win the game. I thought it showed poor decision making, I know part of the reason he did that was because Lebron took away the drive, but you have to get better shots than what he took.
The Bulls proved all year they could win ugly defensive games, and my bringing up Korver was because he was a guy earlier in the playoffs that bailed them out, and now that he's not I think that is a part to the Bulls 4th quarter struggles.
Much appreciate your guy's input, explainations and analyses. I have a feeling MikeyV is writing another novel for me to read.
Than what he has provided. LeBron is going to get his, best you will do is make it difficult for him and get yours too, which is what he has done. But, I think you are giving Boozer and Noah way too much credit. Boozer shot pretty well last game (though clanging a few CRUCIAL FT's), but he has been WELL below his career play-off and past season averages. He shot 37% from the field in Games 2 and 3, which, to once again borrow a word from you is, "dismal". Noah is shooting 29.7% from the field in this series. Yes, he is doing his work on the offensive glass, and is averaging 10 boards, but I would much rather he score a few more buckets than dish out 6 assists like he has done the past couple games. He has also gotten to the line 6 times, where he is 50%.
You have to look closer than just Rose when it comes to numbers and percentages. Yes, his are bad, but do not act like his team is playing well, they are clearly not. Even Luol had a horrid Game 2 (5-15, 4 TO's), and his game 1 is seriously carrying him as far as his playing well in this series (Though he had a decent Game 4).
Go to Carlos Boozer's basketball reference page and tell me he is doing what he usually does in the play-offs. Watch the games and see that Noah for the most part, has been incredibly less effective than usual and that he has played horrid defense on Chris Bosh, who he and not Boozer usually guards. He was hustling last game, and worked really hard, and I was impressed with his assist numbers as well, but he went to the line 0 times. Why is he not using his height and athleticism to get something done down there? Give Miami a lot of credit, they are playing amazing defense, but the Bulls are very much playing below average in the same category. Also, it is incredibly hard to give Derrick Rose space to operate when Miami feels that his teammates will never make shots. He has been neutralized by bigger and stronger defenders, and no one else has stepped up in the slightest. That was always my problem with people giving LeBron [email protected], it was not like anyone else really played at or above the norm to help him out. Yes, some of that should be blamed on the star player, but in this case, I think Derrick Rose can only take so much blame.
Yes, it is disappointing to not see Derrick Rose do as well as he has done in pretty much every other series in the play-offs, the guy has had a dynamite three play-off years. But, this is the best defense he has ever faced, clearly it has given him more issues than he had the past two years with Rajon Rondo and Cleveland's guards rather than Miami having athletic marvels Dwyane Wade and LeBron James making sure he is under wraps. But, when a guy is getting as much focus as Rose has gotten, such as being guarded by LeBron James, it means their is a major match-up issue with someone else that should be taken advantage of. Who on the Bulls is doing that? Ronnie Brewer scoring 7 points in game 4 is not exactly the only boost I want to get out of my team. The Bulls need to play more aggressive, and Derrick Rose was trying to be the catalyst, but clearly no one on his team has stepped up to make life easier for him. Look at their numbers if you want to see dismal.
The funny thing is Tongue Out, people who werent looking at the 2010 playoffs like Skip Bayless, and actually watched the games and didnt listen to what ESPN had to say didnt blame Lebron. Lebron was all that Cav team had. Could it be looked at as choking that he had the best record 2 years in a row and failed to make the Finals? Yes. But the singular blame for why the Cavs didnt win was not on Lebron. Derrick Rose should be playing better. No doubt about it. But theres way too much of a defensive emphasis on Rose at this point by an elite defensive team that its almost impossible for him to have those 35 pt nights he had in the regular season.
However, the biggest flaw in what you are trying to say is the main reason Lebron was getting "hated on" was because he had reached the years his career where its expected that he started winning titles. Last year was his 7 season, aka the year Jordan won his first title. That alone was what made people get on Lebron for. Derrick Rose is 22 years old, and the Bulls massively overachieved this season. I agree he needs to be better, but "blaming" him is ridiculous. The kid's the only player on this team that is legitimate threat.
that they're allowing the other guys to get off and focusing most of their defensive attention on derrick rose????? The defensive gameplan is all about stopping derrick rose. Theve got 6'8 lebron james best player in the nba on 6'2 DRose, then they throw dwayne at him, the rest of the player try to clog the lane to cut off his drives....he is their main focus so of course the other guys have the opportunity to do better.
Looking at Boozer's playoffs stats, while they are extremely impressive, you have to remember that in Utah, he had a pure point guard feeding him the ball off pick and rolls. He was clearly the 2nd option on that team and he did not have to create for himself. Now in Chicago, they don't run pick and runs as often as they used to and at times he seems lost on the offensive end because of the different offensive schemes that Thibs runs.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying give DRose all of the blame, but he hasn't received as much criticsm as his entire team has received. Derrick Rose is the main piece to the Bulls' offense and he has not been playing smoothly whatsoever. Like you said, you don't need to look at the stat sheet to how Rose is playing, but I think we can all agree that he has been making horrid decisions and has played timid at times. He disappears from his MVP state and goes back to his ROY year.
DRose isn't getting enough blame is all I'm saying, not that he deserves it all, but everybody is pointing fingers at everybody BUT Rose.
Personally Tongue, i thought Rose was aweful in game 4, and probably cost Chicago the game. I wouldnt put as much as that Boozer blame on Rose as much as I would put it on Thib. Why this team doesnt run pick and rolls with him is beyond me.
Bosh is KILLING the Bulls. Boozer can score all he wants but he is getting empty points. Bosh scored when it mattered. As I said before the series the two benches are about even. I think the Bulls bench is very overrated. Yeah, Korver can shoot sometimes and Taj Gibson is a terror, but after that the bench is incredibly ordinary.
Rose is the only guy on the team that can create his own shot. Luol Deng is a good jump shooter but can be contained. The Heat have 3 guys that can create their own shot (LeBron, Wade, and Bosh) plus Mike Miller who has good scoring instincts.
Yeah, I think Rose should get more assists and shoot better from the field, but he is kind of like Russell Westbrook if Russell Westbrook didn't have Kevin Durant or James Harden.
I will say it again that the Bulls really miss Ben Gordon. They also lost Captain Kirk and I think they miss him too.
Noah isn't scoring enough. Joel Anthony is about a big a threat on offense as Noah is. And that's a huge problem for Chicago. People say that the Heat only have 3 scorers in the starting lineup with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh with two guys who can't really produce (Anthony, Bibby). Well, it looks like the Bulls are the same with Rose, Boozer, and Deng with Bogans and Noah not giving them much of anything. What's worse, Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller (in game 4) have totally neutralized the Bulls bench (one of their few strengths).
The Heat's strategy seems to be to throw a lot of different looks at Rose and let him try to beat you all by himself, but make him work for it. Then let Bosh neutralize Boozer, put a decent defender on Deng to deny him wide open jumpers (the guy can't really drive or post up well), don't let Korver get hot on offense attack him on defense, and keep the Bulls from getting a ton of offensive rebounds. The Heat is the better team with a better balance between offensive talent and defensive talent.
As a Memphis Tiger fan, one thing that concerns me is Rose's lack of clutch play. In the 2008 championship game he missed a couple of free throws late and looked pretty gassed towards the end of the game. In game 4 the other night he missed some free throws late, went 2-12 in the fourth quarter and overtime and looked pretty winded. Not sure he is clutch enough. Maybe not the alpha leader that the Bulls need in crunch time. Maybe if he got some help things would be different. Who knows?
But I think he is definitely a clutch player, and his having an off game in game 4 shows little about his abilities there. People look at clutch way too black and white, you are, you are not. If you have a few bad games in crunch time, than you will NEVER have a good one. Honestly, that is rarely the case. Odds are, you will screw up in crunch time more often than not. Kobe has missed more game winners than he has made, and he shot 6-24 from the field in Game 7 last year. Still, no one I would rather give the ball too in crunch time in the current NBA.
Derrick Rose has ice in his veins way more often than not, and has been incredibly clutch in most situations in his young career, he is definitely going to be a guy who teams rely in crunch time, and he played the role brilliantly in the Indiana series and against the Hawks. But, so far, the Heat are just a better team, with two guys who are better than Derrick Rose. If Derrick Rose turns them around, they will not be, but it is just appearing that like we thought, he is having a tough time against two of basketballs best players.
Derrick's team is of course a reason he won MVP, but usually the first deterrent for LeBron or Dwyane Wade being MVP is, "they play on the same team". Well, they do, and it is working. Derrick Rose is therefore seen as one who needs to play better than either of them for his team to win, because if he does not at least come close to doing so, the Bulls will be down 3-1. Hmm, interesting, seems the series is at that right now. Rose is not driving enough, and making some silly mistakes, but his team is not helping him out in the least. They would kill for a Kirk Hinrich or a John Salmons right now, at least someone to take some of the offensive pressure off of Rose's shoulders. Yes, Boozer was playing with Williams, but he was a primary post scoring option with very little help as well. He just always seemed to get outplayed by longer, better players, which he is continuing to do, though even more so than usual. Still, someone needs to step up and take some pressure off, and his team has done none of this.
I find it funny that people were listing that the Bulls killed the Heat at PG, C and their bench, but made no real account of just how much better the other three guys were. Not to mention, they finally have some guys who are healthy enough to take some of the pressure off and provide those key possessions that are so important to teams. Where are those guys for the Bulls? Inconsistency has been abound, and Rose has been consistently mediocre (by his standards) rather than most of the other players being consistently poor. Either way, we were starting to find out that the Bulls might not have been as good as their record had indicated in the previous two rounds. Boozer has had a poor play-offs, Noah has provided no offensive punch whatsoever and it has all landed on Derrick Rose's shoulders. Getting more help offensively from the SG is part of it, but it really is a reflection that Derrick Rose was maybe the MVP this year, but their were better players and teams out there. If the teams with the best record was always the NBA champion, their would be no point of a play-offs. I think their is only so much Rose can do, much like many other players who have gotten the flack you so want to slightly bestow upon him.
Derrick Rose has not had a great series against the Heat. That is really all their is to say, he gets some blame for not being a better player than LeBron James (and in my opinion, though I know others may disagree, Dwyane Wade). Still, what he could he be doing to get his team more involved? Was my question with LeBron, who while some may figured he had failed, usually at least took the bulk of his teams shots and did all he could to get them as far as possible. More than we could say about Kevin Durant, though I agree that Russell Westbrook had a much worse play-offs overall and made some terrible decisions, took awful shots (blame Scotty Brooks as well, poor shooting and getting nothing from some key players). I think that Kevin Durant was beaten by a better team, and that he is a young player with things to work on. As was LeBron James, who finally wore that card out last year. As is Derrick Rose, who I think still has a while until he is all that is wrong with a team he lead to the Eastern Conference Finals in his third year.
The reason the Bulls are struggling is because Derrick Rose has been getting marginal help on the offensive end, and because Carlos Boozer is giving up just as many points as he scores to Bosh, if not more. Derrick Rose shoots alot and forces the action alot is because the Bulls don't have the scorers necessary to keep the defense honest. Kyle Korver is missing everything these days, Luol Deng can't create his own offense very well and has never really done that well in the past either, Carlos Boozer is scoring alright but like I said he's largely giving up points too. Ronnie Brewer and Bogans have made some shots, but they clearly aren't true scorers at all and they each only provide about 6 or 7 points a night at best. Joakim Noah is shooting under 30% despite playing down low. Taj Gibson has been pretty invisible since Game 1. Rose has to take those shots in conclusion, who else can create looks??