[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

1. Kristaps. No idea he is 7’2-7’3, who can move his feet, and has a great head on his shoulders. I thought he was going to be a bust, but I can definitely see him as a more versatile and athletic Zydrunas. I can see him being like 4th-7th best player on a title contender, maybe 3rd.

2. Mudiay. I saw him in high school and I thought behind Towns, he was the 2nd best recruit in his class. Going to China, I was really worried that his career was going to be starting on the wrong foot. I personally had him 3rd on my mock draft during the draft process cause it just made sense to me Philly drafts him. However he no doubt in my mind now will go down as a guy who should have went top 3 in this draft. Just thinking about it if Calipari could have got him or maybe even what could have happened at Brown, easily he could have maybe been the #1 pick.

3. Stanley really didn’t get the most of what he could have gotten from going to Arizona and even sometimes that held him back in college. However he all along was always a baller. 

4. I had Okafor at 4 cause of the hype and I thought NYK would make sense, but man I still don’t see what’s so impressive outside his post game. Alright rebounder, terrible defensive player, his mid range jumpers are fools gold, turn over machine. I mean Jimmer was really good at one thing too and we all saw how that worked out. 

5. In a time where teams want bigs that space the floor and create offense or ones that can be so versatile  on defense, Kaminsky and Cauley-Stein both make incredible sense as to why they got drafted so high. 

 

[IlladelphParticipant]

 I agree with all 5 of these points.  Especially number 3.  Been watching Stanley Johnson a little bit and I am really surprised at how well he is playing given that he was pretty underwhelming at Arizona.  

Mudiay I think would have really benefited from a year at Kentucky for sure in terms of development, draft position, and overall brand building.  I actually think that he was really hurt in all three of these areas by going to China for the year.  

[IlladelphParticipant]

 I agree with all 5 of these points.  Especially number 3.  Been watching Stanley Johnson a little bit and I am really surprised at how well he is playing given that he was pretty underwhelming at Arizona.  

Mudiay I think would have really benefited from a year at Kentucky for sure in terms of development, draft position, and overall brand building.  I actually think that he was really hurt in all three of these areas by going to China for the year.  

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

If you give Miller time, he can make you a great COLLEGE player, however, making someone a great NBA player, has been a different story….

I really just think Stanley for the most part just had this in him, In high school I had him as the 3rd best recruit behind Towns and Mudiay.

i know Calipari also is one of the best salesmen in terms of building up a player to go to the NBA. He got Andrew Harrison drafted, even though he ain’t better than a lot of prospect, for example, Christian Wood. And I’m a huge UK fan. Calipari would probably say something like Mudiay might be the best guard he has ever coached, instantly the hype would become real. Also Mudiay, if most people don’t remember, outside of Karl, was Calipari’s top target so Calipari would have tried everything in his power to make him ready to be a NBA superstar, including pushing out the twins. Don’t be surprise if he does this for Marvin Bagley Jr. I already know Calipari is having a every NBA star and rapper he knows calling Bagley now.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

If you give Miller time, he can make you a great COLLEGE player, however, making someone a great NBA player, has been a different story….

I really just think Stanley for the most part just had this in him, In high school I had him as the 3rd best recruit behind Towns and Mudiay.

i know Calipari also is one of the best salesmen in terms of building up a player to go to the NBA. He got Andrew Harrison drafted, even though he ain’t better than a lot of prospect, for example, Christian Wood. And I’m a huge UK fan. Calipari would probably say something like Mudiay might be the best guard he has ever coached, instantly the hype would become real. Also Mudiay, if most people don’t remember, outside of Karl, was Calipari’s top target so Calipari would have tried everything in his power to make him ready to be a NBA superstar, including pushing out the twins. Don’t be surprise if he does this for Marvin Bagley Jr. I already know Calipari is having a every NBA star and rapper he knows calling Bagley now.

[ChewyParticipant]

 didn’t get drafted because he told all the GMs in his interviews that he thinks he is a 3 in the NBA and that he should play like Durant. He railroaded his own stock.

[ChewyParticipant]

 didn’t get drafted because he told all the GMs in his interviews that he thinks he is a 3 in the NBA and that he should play like Durant. He railroaded his own stock.

[ph90702]

I’m glad that I’m not the only one who thinks that way about Sean Miller.

[ph90702]

I’m glad that I’m not the only one who thinks that way about Sean Miller.

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 w/ your Okafor assessment… 6’11” Powerfully built lower body, great feet, at 18 already possesses every low post move in the book; can shoot a J from 15 ft & in & uses the glass off Both elbows; so strong & sets up so deep that he Forces a double; can pass out of the double – what else do you want your center to do??? He’s mature, he’s grounded He doesn’t block shots – ok? He’s too strong for anyone to back him down & score over him & he’s got the human jumping jack Nerlens Noel next to him… This game is about the ability to score in the half court grind that Every playoffs turn into – he’s going to score 20+ a game w/ 10 rebounds & he’ll create wide open shots for others… There is only a handful off Centers in the whole NBA that have that skill set & they are all All Stars… people are punishing him for what he is Not – Okafor is Not a 4, he is a traditional 5, who will be a scoring machine through his 20’s… I luv Mudiay but he has flaws, Johnson has flaws, Every player in the League has strengths & weaknesses but for Phila to get Okafor at #3 was way more luck than they deserved,,.

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 w/ your Okafor assessment… 6’11” Powerfully built lower body, great feet, at 18 already possesses every low post move in the book; can shoot a J from 15 ft & in & uses the glass off Both elbows; so strong & sets up so deep that he Forces a double; can pass out of the double – what else do you want your center to do??? He’s mature, he’s grounded He doesn’t block shots – ok? He’s too strong for anyone to back him down & score over him & he’s got the human jumping jack Nerlens Noel next to him… This game is about the ability to score in the half court grind that Every playoffs turn into – he’s going to score 20+ a game w/ 10 rebounds & he’ll create wide open shots for others… There is only a handful off Centers in the whole NBA that have that skill set & they are all All Stars… people are punishing him for what he is Not – Okafor is Not a 4, he is a traditional 5, who will be a scoring machine through his 20’s… I luv Mudiay but he has flaws, Johnson has flaws, Every player in the League has strengths & weaknesses but for Phila to get Okafor at #3 was way more luck than they deserved,,.

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Tyus jones played well last night!! Shot the ball well and made plays!!! Walter Tavares has played good to!! TOLD Y’all he was gonna b special!! I mean special on the way he plays not his weird looks!!

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Tyus jones played well last night!! Shot the ball well and made plays!!! Walter Tavares has played good to!! TOLD Y’all he was gonna b special!! I mean special on the way he plays not his weird looks!!

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Never doubt my mines!!!

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Never doubt my mines!!!

[tuck243Participant]

I remember when no one cared about players playing defense on this site (or generally in the basketball world).  I used to be big on players being 2 way stars and that’s why I stop being an Allen Iverson fan growing up.   I’m glad to see other "basketball heads" being more critical of players that only play offensively.   But I think it’s gone overboard now.

What beats great defense? Great offense…  We have TOO many examples of players that are HOF or All-Stars that don’t play a lick of defense.   Yet, guys are deciding to take players who are mere average all around compared to a player that offense is so dominating it alone can make him an All-Star.   I’m all for defense and think players like Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Anthony Davis are the best of the best, BUT lets not forget about the other players that were at their position and wasn’t known for being a defensive master YET they were still great.  Karl Malone, Mose Malone, Dirk, K Love, Amare, C-Webb, Blake etc…  All guys that weren’t known for their defensive prowess and a couple of them weren’t great rebounders either.  They still have a great number of All-Stars between them and 2 championships.   Picking certain players over them is a fast way to lose out on an All-Star.  Not every team is able to win championships like the NFL.   LeBron has played in the last 5 finals.   There’s not a lot of parity in this league.   If you’re able to luck up and get a once in 10 years type talent like Anthony Davis then fine, but don’t pass on a surefire offensive master because "he doesn’t play defense".  Damion Lillard is AWFUL at defense.   For majority of his career, Stephen Curry was awful at defense.  Steve Nash too…   Let’s not talk about Magic…   

I get it…  Y’all mean well, but let’s not go too far with it.  At the end of the day more points on the scoreboard wins the game.  Leave Jahlil alone and appreciate what he does well.   

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

I’m not saying great offense isn’t important, I still think a guy like Russell can be great despite not being an average defensive PG in the NBA yet. Just I don’t see Jahlil having the complete offensive game people really try to push in people’s face. Great great, probably the best 20 years old post package in a very long time…. But the things like his midrange game, strength, and passing gets overhyped. Fadeaway jumpers are so ugly and unfluid. how people love how he passes out of a double team in college, just like it is for a lot great college QBs, when he hits the pros, those passes are about to be picked off or deflected. and then he’s not incredibly strong, there’s plenty of center’s just as strong but way longer and more athletic in the NBA. If he was like 7’0 and built like Dwight, then I would be all on board. However the big difference between college and NBA is the speed and size, and I really just think those two things are going to be too much for him.

 

[tuck243Participant]

I’m not sure where you getting your information from.  Where is this prespective coming from?  Is it because the way he played in college?  Or you’re basing your opinion off SL play?  All I can say is when I’ve seen him play vs College or NBA big men he’s held his own.   He’s also strong as most of the big men in the league (if not stronger).  Regardless of how you feel about how "fluid his fadeaway" is, it still goes in.   It doesn’t matter how you feel about that.  Now, I STRONGLY disagree with the "passing out of double teams" stuff you said.  It’s not even debateable because it’s simply not true.   He’s by far the best big man passer out of double teams at that age we’ve seen in a long time.  I just watched that Wizards game when his entire weaponary was on full display.  I have no issue with debating things that can go both ways, but some of the things you questioned about his game is completely wrong.   Not only that, you have no proof of how passing out of double teams won’t translate to the NBA game.  

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 He’s averaged like 5 turnovers since summer league…. that is way too high for a center, and he hasnt even played against true NBA speed and size yet. It definitely does matter what it looks like, he is not even looking at the rim and he does miss it a lot. That is not a consistent reliable shot. If you think hes going to shoot more than 43% from that move you are lying to yourself.

Also if you look at him in college, he didnt dominate one NBA prospect big. So I think you are just asking the wrong questions. It is not Jahlil holding his own against other NBA prospects in college, hes the 3rd pick, he should be dominating. The question should be: Did NBA prospects hold their own against Jahlil in college? For  the ladder question, the answer is yes.

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Let me retrack that he did dominate Rakeem Christmas. Anyways defensively at least we can agree that he needs a lot of work. NBA game is a lot of pick and roll and you cant exactly say he can contain a small guard. And NBA coaches are smart, Noel and Okafor pairing has a lot of flaws. defensively teams can pack up the paint. and then offense pull Noel away from the rim and have a quick four get around Jahlil. 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Let me retrack that he did dominate Rakeem Christmas. Anyways defensively at least we can agree that he needs a lot of work. NBA game is a lot of pick and roll and you cant exactly say he can contain a small guard. And NBA coaches are smart, Noel and Okafor pairing has a lot of flaws. defensively teams can pack up the paint. and then offense pull Noel away from the rim and have a quick four get around Jahlil. 

[tuck243Participant]

Ok…  Let’s be honest here.   Jahlil was Duke’s only big man.   He filled a role that Jabari had huge issues with in the season prior.   That was Duke’s main issue during Jabari’s season because they had no real post threat or defensive anchor.  Fast forward to Jahlil’s Duke season (a season they won the national championship) and he mainly had to stay in the game or Duke was forced to play Mason and Jefferson together.  Not a great combo in long stretches.   I think that hendered his game defensively somewhat because he wasn’t able to be aggressive defensively like KAT (which I think KAT’s defense for this reason is a little overrated).  Even with that said, he still managed to be unstoppable at times and his moves versus ANY college big man were crucial.  I like how you ignored the fact he dominated Frank (lotto pick) until he was in foul trouble in the national championship game.   Or that he also managed to look special against a line up of Nene, Gortat, and Kris Humphries in the Preseason matchup.  Which for the record was more important than any Summer League game played.   

I’m not saying he doesn’t have flaws.  I’m not saying he will be an All-Star this season.   But if anyone think he will be anything less than an All-Star for multiple seasons is fooling themselves.  Blake Griffin only had athletic ability when he first entered the league.   He still bully his way in the paint with no real post moves with his back to the basket.   Jahlil has a nice touch around the rim and his footwork is top notch.  Bigs take a long time to get use to the NBA game and what Jahlil has shown so far is enough for me to agree that he will be special offensively.   Anthony Davis didn’t have a great midrange shot.  Neither did Blake…  I would say Jahlil is further ahead than both of those guys in their rookie seasons with that.   He’ll be fine, I think you’re too critical of him.  It’s almost like you’ve watched him TOO MUCH and you’re nitpicking.  

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

Ok…  Let’s be honest here.   Jahlil was Duke’s only big man.   He filled a role that Jabari had huge issues with in the season prior.   That was Duke’s main issue during Jabari’s season because they had no real post threat or defensive anchor.  Fast forward to Jahlil’s Duke season (a season they won the national championship) and he mainly had to stay in the game or Duke was forced to play Mason and Jefferson together.  Not a great combo in long stretches.   I think that hendered his game defensively somewhat because he wasn’t able to be aggressive defensively like KAT (which I think KAT’s defense for this reason is a little overrated).  Even with that said, he still managed to be unstoppable at times and his moves versus ANY college big man were crucial.  I like how you ignored the fact he dominated Frank (lotto pick) until he was in foul trouble in the national championship game.   Or that he also managed to look special against a line up of Nene, Gortat, and Kris Humphries in the Preseason matchup.  Which for the record was more important than any Summer League game played.   

I’m not saying he doesn’t have flaws.  I’m not saying he will be an All-Star this season.   But if anyone think he will be anything less than an All-Star for multiple seasons is fooling themselves.  Blake Griffin only had athletic ability when he first entered the league.   He still bully his way in the paint with no real post moves with his back to the basket.   Jahlil has a nice touch around the rim and his footwork is top notch.  Bigs take a long time to get use to the NBA game and what Jahlil has shown so far is enough for me to agree that he will be special offensively.   Anthony Davis didn’t have a great midrange shot.  Neither did Blake…  I would say Jahlil is further ahead than both of those guys in their rookie seasons with that.   He’ll be fine, I think you’re too critical of him.  It’s almost like you’ve watched him TOO MUCH and you’re nitpicking.  

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 He couldnt guard frank just stop. You cant compare Jahlil to those two guys man. There are plenty of guys who are built like Jahlil in the league and/or have even less fat. Anthony Davis is like freakin mr. fantastic from fantastic four and Blake can basically fly. 

Man if only every rookie who had a 12+ point game on a nba frontline in the preseason was a future multiple nba all-star.

we’ll see though hes only 19 everything will result in his work ethic.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 He couldnt guard frank just stop. You cant compare Jahlil to those two guys man. There are plenty of guys who are built like Jahlil in the league and/or have even less fat. Anthony Davis is like freakin mr. fantastic from fantastic four and Blake can basically fly. 

Man if only every rookie who had a 12+ point game on a nba frontline in the preseason was a future multiple nba all-star.

we’ll see though hes only 19 everything will result in his work ethic.

[tuck243Participant]

I said Frank couldn’t stop him, but Frank did start that game off slow. 

I’m speaking in terms of their offensive development as rookies.  Both were phenomonal for what they did well, but Jahlil IS further along than both of them as a rookie in terms of offense (including shooting that 18 foot shot).

[tuck243Participant]

I said Frank couldn’t stop him, but Frank did start that game off slow. 

I’m speaking in terms of their offensive development as rookies.  Both were phenomonal for what they did well, but Jahlil IS further along than both of them as a rookie in terms of offense (including shooting that 18 foot shot).

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 my personal definition of dominance is something that happens on both ends of the court. Like what Kyrie Irving did at Duke when he played against Kansas State Jacob Pullen when Kyrie got a solid 17 points but also held Pullen to 1-12 shooting and 4 turnovers.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 my personal definition of dominance is something that happens on both ends of the court. Like what Kyrie Irving did at Duke when he played against Kansas State Jacob Pullen when Kyrie got a solid 17 points but also held Pullen to 1-12 shooting and 4 turnovers.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 reread what you wrote, you said he dominated Frank.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 reread what you wrote, you said he dominated Frank.

[tuck243Participant]

That’s YOUR definition of it…   I’ve only been discussing his offense for the most part.  Defense we agree on.  His offense is what we disagree on and you said he won’t get that off (and haven’t gotten that off on NBA prospects) on NBA big men.  Which is completely false.  LOL…  He was moving Frank around when Jahlil had the ball in the low post.  Plus Frank started off slow as well…   He didn’t really get going until Jahlil went to the bench and when he came back, Frank hit a few shots on him.   But I think Jahlil showed then (and in the SL/Preseason) that he can get what he wants offensively, but he has to put it all together consistently.   Still I’m talking about his offense, because that’s what we disagree on.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 If a guy goes for 40 and he allows another guy to go for 40, he did not dominate him. But whatever believe what you want to believe.

we’ll see about his offense.

 

[tuck243Participant]

We’ve been discussing him being able to dominate (or just good) offensively..   If you’re going to go that route then do that for everyone too.  John Stockton has ALWAYS been a victim vs. All-Star PG’s and I did the statistical research to prove it. That’s just one example.  Amare… Blake…  Kevin Love…  What are your feelings on them? 

If it wasn’t/not the same, then stop changing the perimeters of the argument to fit your narrative.  

[tuck243Participant]

We’ve been discussing him being able to dominate (or just good) offensively..   If you’re going to go that route then do that for everyone too.  John Stockton has ALWAYS been a victim vs. All-Star PG’s and I did the statistical research to prove it. That’s just one example.  Amare… Blake…  Kevin Love…  What are your feelings on them? 

If it wasn’t/not the same, then stop changing the perimeters of the argument to fit your narrative.  

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

What on Earth are you talking about? When did I say Jahlil didnt dominate Frank, offensively. And KLove is wack. Amar’e and Blake are high scoring machines, who will tend to outscore other opposing bigs. Frank outscored Jahlil. And I never said Amar’e and Blake are dominate either.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

What on Earth are you talking about? When did I say Jahlil didnt dominate Frank, offensively. And KLove is wack. Amar’e and Blake are high scoring machines, who will tend to outscore other opposing bigs. Frank outscored Jahlil. And I never said Amar’e and Blake are dominate either.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 If a guy goes for 40 and he allows another guy to go for 40, he did not dominate him. But whatever believe what you want to believe.

we’ll see about his offense.

 

[tuck243Participant]

That’s YOUR definition of it…   I’ve only been discussing his offense for the most part.  Defense we agree on.  His offense is what we disagree on and you said he won’t get that off (and haven’t gotten that off on NBA prospects) on NBA big men.  Which is completely false.  LOL…  He was moving Frank around when Jahlil had the ball in the low post.  Plus Frank started off slow as well…   He didn’t really get going until Jahlil went to the bench and when he came back, Frank hit a few shots on him.   But I think Jahlil showed then (and in the SL/Preseason) that he can get what he wants offensively, but he has to put it all together consistently.   Still I’m talking about his offense, because that’s what we disagree on.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 He’s averaged like 5 turnovers since summer league…. that is way too high for a center, and he hasnt even played against true NBA speed and size yet. It definitely does matter what it looks like, he is not even looking at the rim and he does miss it a lot. That is not a consistent reliable shot. If you think hes going to shoot more than 43% from that move you are lying to yourself.

Also if you look at him in college, he didnt dominate one NBA prospect big. So I think you are just asking the wrong questions. It is not Jahlil holding his own against other NBA prospects in college, hes the 3rd pick, he should be dominating. The question should be: Did NBA prospects hold their own against Jahlil in college? For  the ladder question, the answer is yes.

 

[tuck243Participant]

I’m not sure where you getting your information from.  Where is this prespective coming from?  Is it because the way he played in college?  Or you’re basing your opinion off SL play?  All I can say is when I’ve seen him play vs College or NBA big men he’s held his own.   He’s also strong as most of the big men in the league (if not stronger).  Regardless of how you feel about how "fluid his fadeaway" is, it still goes in.   It doesn’t matter how you feel about that.  Now, I STRONGLY disagree with the "passing out of double teams" stuff you said.  It’s not even debateable because it’s simply not true.   He’s by far the best big man passer out of double teams at that age we’ve seen in a long time.  I just watched that Wizards game when his entire weaponary was on full display.  I have no issue with debating things that can go both ways, but some of the things you questioned about his game is completely wrong.   Not only that, you have no proof of how passing out of double teams won’t translate to the NBA game.  

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

I’m not saying great offense isn’t important, I still think a guy like Russell can be great despite not being an average defensive PG in the NBA yet. Just I don’t see Jahlil having the complete offensive game people really try to push in people’s face. Great great, probably the best 20 years old post package in a very long time…. But the things like his midrange game, strength, and passing gets overhyped. Fadeaway jumpers are so ugly and unfluid. how people love how he passes out of a double team in college, just like it is for a lot great college QBs, when he hits the pros, those passes are about to be picked off or deflected. and then he’s not incredibly strong, there’s plenty of center’s just as strong but way longer and more athletic in the NBA. If he was like 7’0 and built like Dwight, then I would be all on board. However the big difference between college and NBA is the speed and size, and I really just think those two things are going to be too much for him.

 

[tuck243Participant]

I remember when no one cared about players playing defense on this site (or generally in the basketball world).  I used to be big on players being 2 way stars and that’s why I stop being an Allen Iverson fan growing up.   I’m glad to see other "basketball heads" being more critical of players that only play offensively.   But I think it’s gone overboard now.

What beats great defense? Great offense…  We have TOO many examples of players that are HOF or All-Stars that don’t play a lick of defense.   Yet, guys are deciding to take players who are mere average all around compared to a player that offense is so dominating it alone can make him an All-Star.   I’m all for defense and think players like Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Anthony Davis are the best of the best, BUT lets not forget about the other players that were at their position and wasn’t known for being a defensive master YET they were still great.  Karl Malone, Mose Malone, Dirk, K Love, Amare, C-Webb, Blake etc…  All guys that weren’t known for their defensive prowess and a couple of them weren’t great rebounders either.  They still have a great number of All-Stars between them and 2 championships.   Picking certain players over them is a fast way to lose out on an All-Star.  Not every team is able to win championships like the NFL.   LeBron has played in the last 5 finals.   There’s not a lot of parity in this league.   If you’re able to luck up and get a once in 10 years type talent like Anthony Davis then fine, but don’t pass on a surefire offensive master because "he doesn’t play defense".  Damion Lillard is AWFUL at defense.   For majority of his career, Stephen Curry was awful at defense.  Steve Nash too…   Let’s not talk about Magic…   

I get it…  Y’all mean well, but let’s not go too far with it.  At the end of the day more points on the scoreboard wins the game.  Leave Jahlil alone and appreciate what he does well.   

 

 

[Rip256]

 SkalandJamal doesnt get the negs he deserves considering how bad his basketball analysis is.

[Rip256]

 SkalandJamal doesnt get the negs he deserves considering how bad his basketball analysis is.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 someone sounds salty.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 someone sounds salty.

[Author]

Posts