[littleteapotParticipant]

Excluding Bynum’s injury and effort issues, doesn’t Embiid look like he has a very similar skillset? I don’t think he’ll ever have as much strength as Bynum, but he looks like the kind of player who won’t really bully people to the rim, won’t have elite quickness, and won’t be an elite defender, but does everything well enough to power past the small guys, run around the big guys and be good enough to give your team some rim defense and very good rebounding.

[KHAM83Participant]

 Whoever you are, you created another id today just to post this?

[KHAM83Participant]

 Whoever you are, you created another id today just to post this?

[PhillytheKid]

he has footwork to have legit post-moves that Shaq always talks about.  he’s been balling for 2 years.  

He has the upside of Hakeem Olajuwon if his legs get a little stronger.  In fact what you described is Hakeem Olajuwon.  In fact, Bill Self said he was like Hakeem Olajuwon….that means the kid has star potential.

Bynum was also a very good player, the only thing that held Bynum back was his head, and his knees.  His head prevented him from reaching his potential, as well as his knees and playing alongside Kobe Bryant.  But Bynum is a very intelligent ballplayer that knows how to play the right way.  Embiid is a good kid, and he has a great body, I don’t think his knees are going to hold him back, and I think he’s a competitor.  Embiid is going to be a perennial all-star.

Greg Oden, I never saw greatness in Oden throughout his college career.  He also said he’d rather be a dentist than an NBA player, his heart wasn’t in the game.  Oden also looks depressed by his facial expressions, I don’t think he ever wanted to be a baller.  I would’ve chosen Durant as the #1 pick from the start.  Embiid has shown me flashes of potential excellence.  He’s a standout talent.

 

 

 

[PhillytheKid]

he has footwork to have legit post-moves that Shaq always talks about.  he’s been balling for 2 years.  

He has the upside of Hakeem Olajuwon if his legs get a little stronger.  In fact what you described is Hakeem Olajuwon.  In fact, Bill Self said he was like Hakeem Olajuwon….that means the kid has star potential.

Bynum was also a very good player, the only thing that held Bynum back was his head, and his knees.  His head prevented him from reaching his potential, as well as his knees and playing alongside Kobe Bryant.  But Bynum is a very intelligent ballplayer that knows how to play the right way.  Embiid is a good kid, and he has a great body, I don’t think his knees are going to hold him back, and I think he’s a competitor.  Embiid is going to be a perennial all-star.

Greg Oden, I never saw greatness in Oden throughout his college career.  He also said he’d rather be a dentist than an NBA player, his heart wasn’t in the game.  Oden also looks depressed by his facial expressions, I don’t think he ever wanted to be a baller.  I would’ve chosen Durant as the #1 pick from the start.  Embiid has shown me flashes of potential excellence.  He’s a standout talent.

 

 

 

[kobyzParticipant]

he is not refine or smooth like Hakeem Olajuwon, but he is skilled, smart and phisical spaceman and can be like Patrick Ewing…

[wrectorParticipant]

 Really man? Phisical spaceman? lol….

[King CaluchaParticipant]

 Yeah… I always kinda knew he wanted to be an astronaut

[King CaluchaParticipant]

 Yeah… I always kinda knew he wanted to be an astronaut

[vulture711Participant]

 You get a thumbs up from me.  Its ludicrous, its hibiscus

I’m gonna fade into Bolivia

[vulture711Participant]

 You get a thumbs up from me.  Its ludicrous, its hibiscus

I’m gonna fade into Bolivia

[wrectorParticipant]

 Really man? Phisical spaceman? lol….

[kobyzParticipant]

he is not refine or smooth like Hakeem Olajuwon, but he is skilled, smart and phisical spaceman and can be like Patrick Ewing…

[PhillytheKid]

he has Hakeem potential and that he’s only been playing for 2 years.  He has time to work on his game.  The refinement and smoothness you are talkin about can come.

THe difference I see is that Hakeem had strong compact legs and good balance like a guard.  I don’t think Embiid has those legs.  

 

He’ll have more skill than Patrick Ewing.  But Patrick was a great player can’t take anything away from that comparison. 

[PhillytheKid]

he has Hakeem potential and that he’s only been playing for 2 years.  He has time to work on his game.  The refinement and smoothness you are talkin about can come.

THe difference I see is that Hakeem had strong compact legs and good balance like a guard.  I don’t think Embiid has those legs.  

 

He’ll have more skill than Patrick Ewing.  But Patrick was a great player can’t take anything away from that comparison. 

[littleteapotParticipant]

I created an account because I was annoyed by the Olajuwon comparisons, and wanted to get a more realistic one. Even on raw athleticism I don’t think Embiid is close to Hakeem. I think Hakeem moved and jumped WAAY quicker. IMO, a lot of Embiid’s flaws have been exposed because he’s not the kind of raw athlete that can create vertical or horizontal seperation in the half-court. He’s great when he gets to take a few steps, but when he has to play in the post he can’t really explode laterally, and can’t drop-step and dunk.

I think he’s really interesting, because he has quickness, raw speed, strength, length and smoothness, but has no one category that really defines his game.

[Ebown5Participant]

It is simply untrue that he has had any flaws exposed. The injury risk is a concern, but the medicals aren’t out yet.

He hasn’t developed the skills yet to dominate and that is the difference. For example, the drop step example that you cited is a skill that has to be learned. You don’t just instinctively pull off a drop step move. It is something that has to be practiced. Development wise, he is like a sophomore in highschool.

I agree that he may not have the pure quickess of Hakeem, but then again, Hakeem looked a lot quicker than he was due to his intelligence and varied offensive repetoire. He made decisions quickly and forcefully and put so much pressure on his defender because of that. Defenders never knew where he was going to go so they had to be ready to go in any direction. Hakeem would catch them flat footed all day because of that. A lot of Hakeems crazy moves were possible simply because the defender had to respect him on all of the basic moves. If he was going to fake a hook, then defender better bite on it or he would just knock down the hook shot. Once he would bite, Hakeem would give him the up and under, etc… Hakeem had no weaknesses as a post scorer.

Hakeem is one of the most skilled big men in the history of the nba and Embiid is really raw so obviously he doesn’t compare very well to him in terms of skill right now. However, he has a lot of the abilities that Hakeem used to become who he became.

Mainly, he has the intelligence, heart, work ethic, selfless attitude, great hands, soft touch, an actual jump shot, phenominal feet(ballet dancer type of feet for a big man is something that is very rare), smooth coordination, passing instincts, and a basic inate feel for the game. Plus, he has the similar story as being an african kid who played other sports and was noticed late.

He has all of those things, but he hasn’t put it all together yet. He really doesn’t know HOW to defend in the post without fouling right now, but that is something that big men often take time to learn. 

If you are talking about Embiid’s ceiling then I can’t think of a better comparison than Hakeem. That doesn’t mean he will reach his ceiling, but he legitimately has that kind of upside. He is the first guy since Hakeem that really seems similar to him to me. That doesn’t mean that he is the best center prospect since then, but he is just different than all of the other greats in between. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[littleteapotParticipant]

I’m talking about potential.

I don’t think Embiid has this much leaping ability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfd51XjHDM0

I didn’t mean the flaws comment to be dig – I just think he’s not the explosive athlete Hakeem was, in terms of quickly making moves and jumping high from a standing position, and therefore has to use his raw post moves to get good shots even at the college level. I don’t think he has long-term flaws – I think he has short term flaws that he needs to correct, and we see them on every possession because he has no one dominant physical feature, other than length, that he can use to own the competition. I think he is a great prospect – I just don’t think anyone should expect him to have Hakeem Olajuwon’s potential.

[littleteapotParticipant]

I’m talking about potential.

I don’t think Embiid has this much leaping ability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfd51XjHDM0

I didn’t mean the flaws comment to be dig – I just think he’s not the explosive athlete Hakeem was, in terms of quickly making moves and jumping high from a standing position, and therefore has to use his raw post moves to get good shots even at the college level. I don’t think he has long-term flaws – I think he has short term flaws that he needs to correct, and we see them on every possession because he has no one dominant physical feature, other than length, that he can use to own the competition. I think he is a great prospect – I just don’t think anyone should expect him to have Hakeem Olajuwon’s potential.

[Ebown5Participant]

It is simply untrue that he has had any flaws exposed. The injury risk is a concern, but the medicals aren’t out yet.

He hasn’t developed the skills yet to dominate and that is the difference. For example, the drop step example that you cited is a skill that has to be learned. You don’t just instinctively pull off a drop step move. It is something that has to be practiced. Development wise, he is like a sophomore in highschool.

I agree that he may not have the pure quickess of Hakeem, but then again, Hakeem looked a lot quicker than he was due to his intelligence and varied offensive repetoire. He made decisions quickly and forcefully and put so much pressure on his defender because of that. Defenders never knew where he was going to go so they had to be ready to go in any direction. Hakeem would catch them flat footed all day because of that. A lot of Hakeems crazy moves were possible simply because the defender had to respect him on all of the basic moves. If he was going to fake a hook, then defender better bite on it or he would just knock down the hook shot. Once he would bite, Hakeem would give him the up and under, etc… Hakeem had no weaknesses as a post scorer.

Hakeem is one of the most skilled big men in the history of the nba and Embiid is really raw so obviously he doesn’t compare very well to him in terms of skill right now. However, he has a lot of the abilities that Hakeem used to become who he became.

Mainly, he has the intelligence, heart, work ethic, selfless attitude, great hands, soft touch, an actual jump shot, phenominal feet(ballet dancer type of feet for a big man is something that is very rare), smooth coordination, passing instincts, and a basic inate feel for the game. Plus, he has the similar story as being an african kid who played other sports and was noticed late.

He has all of those things, but he hasn’t put it all together yet. He really doesn’t know HOW to defend in the post without fouling right now, but that is something that big men often take time to learn. 

If you are talking about Embiid’s ceiling then I can’t think of a better comparison than Hakeem. That doesn’t mean he will reach his ceiling, but he legitimately has that kind of upside. He is the first guy since Hakeem that really seems similar to him to me. That doesn’t mean that he is the best center prospect since then, but he is just different than all of the other greats in between. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[littleteapotParticipant]

I created an account because I was annoyed by the Olajuwon comparisons, and wanted to get a more realistic one. Even on raw athleticism I don’t think Embiid is close to Hakeem. I think Hakeem moved and jumped WAAY quicker. IMO, a lot of Embiid’s flaws have been exposed because he’s not the kind of raw athlete that can create vertical or horizontal seperation in the half-court. He’s great when he gets to take a few steps, but when he has to play in the post he can’t really explode laterally, and can’t drop-step and dunk.

I think he’s really interesting, because he has quickness, raw speed, strength, length and smoothness, but has no one category that really defines his game.

[TRC1991Participant]

The one thing you have to be morbidly concerned about when drafting him, is his injury history, albeit brief. You have to imagine every GM sees a glimpse of Greg Oden in him. 

[TRC1991Participant]

The one thing you have to be morbidly concerned about when drafting him, is his injury history, albeit brief. You have to imagine every GM sees a glimpse of Greg Oden in him. 

[PhillytheKid]

its not his knees that are bad.  or its not like he’s carying too much weight for his frame.  Oden just looked OLD, and depressed.  He was basketball’s version of Eeyore.  I honestly never got the Oden hype.

Embiid was nimble and moving around with great agility.  He was getting double teamed a ton downlow.  He took one or two Hard Falls.  So it was a fluke injury because he landed again, really hard, that was an effort injury.

Let his body mature and in 3 or 4 years he’ll be the best center in the game.  He has the fluidity of motion that an athlete does.  Everything is wired proportionately.  Thats how Ibaka moves too.  Long and well proportioned.  Embiid is going to be fine and will be a great pro in the right setup.

He ain’t no Sam Dalembert I’ll tell you that. 

[PhillytheKid]

its not his knees that are bad.  or its not like he’s carying too much weight for his frame.  Oden just looked OLD, and depressed.  He was basketball’s version of Eeyore.  I honestly never got the Oden hype.

Embiid was nimble and moving around with great agility.  He was getting double teamed a ton downlow.  He took one or two Hard Falls.  So it was a fluke injury because he landed again, really hard, that was an effort injury.

Let his body mature and in 3 or 4 years he’ll be the best center in the game.  He has the fluidity of motion that an athlete does.  Everything is wired proportionately.  Thats how Ibaka moves too.  Long and well proportioned.  Embiid is going to be fine and will be a great pro in the right setup.

He ain’t no Sam Dalembert I’ll tell you that. 

[HitsterParticipant]

What the hell has the expression on Greg Oden’s face got to do with his unfortunate injuries and whether he made it in the NBA or not. We all know the Grandpa Oden jokes and that Greg looks old for his age and with what he has been through injurywise he’d have every reason to be depressed!

 Physical Spaceman is hillarious but also a good player nickname!

[HitsterParticipant]

What the hell has the expression on Greg Oden’s face got to do with his unfortunate injuries and whether he made it in the NBA or not. We all know the Grandpa Oden jokes and that Greg looks old for his age and with what he has been through injurywise he’d have every reason to be depressed!

 Physical Spaceman is hillarious but also a good player nickname!

[JoeWolf1]

 Joel was a game changer all season long, and he did so despite being not very physically mature. He will have to get stronger, but that was the reason he wasn’t putting guys on posters all season. Despite having "muscles" Joel just needs to mature, once he does he’s going to be able to take that contact, turn and dunk on someone. 

He’s actually a very quick leaper, and although he’s no Miles Plumlee, his vert for a 7” will probably measure above average, and I suspect it will get higher with more years of maturity and a weight program.

This is a flat footed jump under the rim. He’s hitting about 11’5” without a run.

 

 

[JoeWolf1]

 Joel was a game changer all season long, and he did so despite being not very physically mature. He will have to get stronger, but that was the reason he wasn’t putting guys on posters all season. Despite having "muscles" Joel just needs to mature, once he does he’s going to be able to take that contact, turn and dunk on someone. 

He’s actually a very quick leaper, and although he’s no Miles Plumlee, his vert for a 7” will probably measure above average, and I suspect it will get higher with more years of maturity and a weight program.

This is a flat footed jump under the rim. He’s hitting about 11’5” without a run.

 

 

[littleteapotParticipant]

Example of what I’m talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLRu5eNr204

If you look at the first two plays, the first one, I think is a slam dunk for a really elite athletic big man. Embiid doesn’t need to dunk it against Toledo, so maybe he could have if he needed to, but we don’t know. When he winds himself up, like in the second play his jumping ability is up there with anyone clearly, but how often do you get to do that in the NBA? An example of lateral quickness is at 0:50 (the play where the commentator goes "quick move!") – he makes a great play but IMO that move is not as fast as when Olajuwon makes his move in the post. Maybe he just isn’t 100% comfortable with it so he takes a bit longer right now, but to me it looks like he can’t explode in every direction like Olajuwon.

[JoeWolf1]

Thats fair, I don’t think he’s quite as athletic as Olajuwon either, but he may have elements of his athletic package that are on The Dreams’ level. His agility and foot speed quite possibly could be there, he’s not as strong, but that can be improved. I agree, he probably isn’t as explosive.

I think with a year or two in the NBA under his belt, he’ll be top 5 as far as the most all around athletic 7 footers in the league go. I bet his no step is around 29-30 and his max is around 34” which is great for a guy his size, and paired with his 7’5” wingspan.

[JoeWolf1]

Thats fair, I don’t think he’s quite as athletic as Olajuwon either, but he may have elements of his athletic package that are on The Dreams’ level. His agility and foot speed quite possibly could be there, he’s not as strong, but that can be improved. I agree, he probably isn’t as explosive.

I think with a year or two in the NBA under his belt, he’ll be top 5 as far as the most all around athletic 7 footers in the league go. I bet his no step is around 29-30 and his max is around 34” which is great for a guy his size, and paired with his 7’5” wingspan.

[littleteapotParticipant]

Example of what I’m talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLRu5eNr204

If you look at the first two plays, the first one, I think is a slam dunk for a really elite athletic big man. Embiid doesn’t need to dunk it against Toledo, so maybe he could have if he needed to, but we don’t know. When he winds himself up, like in the second play his jumping ability is up there with anyone clearly, but how often do you get to do that in the NBA? An example of lateral quickness is at 0:50 (the play where the commentator goes "quick move!") – he makes a great play but IMO that move is not as fast as when Olajuwon makes his move in the post. Maybe he just isn’t 100% comfortable with it so he takes a bit longer right now, but to me it looks like he can’t explode in every direction like Olajuwon.

[Rip255]

I don’t think the Hakeem comparison is that bad and the only reason we’re skeptical is because there has been a relative absence of big-men come along in the last 15 years. 

I believe this big-man scarcity isn’t going to last forever and that the next Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Abdul Jabber, Moses Malone etc is just around the corner. The one thing all those skilled bigs had was outstanding footwork and athleticism, and Embiid has both. 

Just out of curiousity, do you think all those legendary centres would still dominate today? I do…and struggle to find a reason why more haven’t come along in the last decade. 

[littleteapotParticipant]

I’m skeptical because every single year there’s a new Olajuwon or Shaq and most of them end up not even starting in the NBA.

I absolutely think most of the legendary centers from the past 30 years would dominate today. I’ve heard people talk about how nowadays high schools will compete with each other to get big men, and to draw them in you basically have to coddle them and not coach them too much, so all the 7 footers coming in to the NBA radar already have too many bad habits and not enough good habits. At this point, guys like Embiid who just didn’t learn basketball until they were 15 don’t even seem to be at much of a disadvantage.

[JoeWolf1]

I agree. It’s often overlooked that the  greats of the 90s all had mid range games. LA looked like Ewing with his fades aways vs Houston. Robinson was money from 15 feet, especially at the top of the key off the pick and pop. Hakeem had 3 point range ( although he didn’t take them often ) to go along with his legendary post games. 

Theyd all kill it in the pick and roll game.

[JoeWolf1]

I agree. It’s often overlooked that the  greats of the 90s all had mid range games. LA looked like Ewing with his fades aways vs Houston. Robinson was money from 15 feet, especially at the top of the key off the pick and pop. Hakeem had 3 point range ( although he didn’t take them often ) to go along with his legendary post games. 

Theyd all kill it in the pick and roll game.

[littleteapotParticipant]

I’m skeptical because every single year there’s a new Olajuwon or Shaq and most of them end up not even starting in the NBA.

I absolutely think most of the legendary centers from the past 30 years would dominate today. I’ve heard people talk about how nowadays high schools will compete with each other to get big men, and to draw them in you basically have to coddle them and not coach them too much, so all the 7 footers coming in to the NBA radar already have too many bad habits and not enough good habits. At this point, guys like Embiid who just didn’t learn basketball until they were 15 don’t even seem to be at much of a disadvantage.

[Rip255]

I don’t think the Hakeem comparison is that bad and the only reason we’re skeptical is because there has been a relative absence of big-men come along in the last 15 years. 

I believe this big-man scarcity isn’t going to last forever and that the next Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Abdul Jabber, Moses Malone etc is just around the corner. The one thing all those skilled bigs had was outstanding footwork and athleticism, and Embiid has both. 

Just out of curiousity, do you think all those legendary centres would still dominate today? I do…and struggle to find a reason why more haven’t come along in the last decade. 

[HitsterParticipant]

If you put a young Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Kareem into today’s NBA I’m sure they would dominate, a lot of these guys played against each other at their peaks so to think what they might do to some of today’s NBA’s C’s would be rather scary.

I still don’t particularly like the Hakeem comparision of Embiid as Hakeem is such a legend and even in college he was a very elite player. But I’m a big Embiid fan and he is a clear number 1 on my mock draft in my head.

He may not look a spectacular leaper but at his size and wingspan does he need to be, his profile said he played football and volleyball before concentrating on basketball so he must have good co-ordination for his size and his build appears to be inproportion so he’ll have a strong leaping base.

[HitsterParticipant]

If you put a young Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Kareem into today’s NBA I’m sure they would dominate, a lot of these guys played against each other at their peaks so to think what they might do to some of today’s NBA’s C’s would be rather scary.

I still don’t particularly like the Hakeem comparision of Embiid as Hakeem is such a legend and even in college he was a very elite player. But I’m a big Embiid fan and he is a clear number 1 on my mock draft in my head.

He may not look a spectacular leaper but at his size and wingspan does he need to be, his profile said he played football and volleyball before concentrating on basketball so he must have good co-ordination for his size and his build appears to be inproportion so he’ll have a strong leaping base.

[Author]

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