[DipoTimeParticipant]

 Why do people feel that the best players on the best teams automatically deserve a spot on the all conference and even the all american teams? People will argue "Well Jabari Parker deserves ACC POY over TJ Warren bc his team is better" So? I believe the award and the teams as well go to the players that are the most OUTSTANDING. Not the most valuable, or the best player on the best team. 

When I saw Tyler Ennis as a finalist for the player of the year, I cringed a little bit. Dont get me wrong! He rly is an outstanding player, especially for a freshman. He has been very solid, consistent, poised, and even clutch. But I really believe people are getting out of hand with it just because he is a freshman and Syracuse is a really good team. I dont even feel like Ennis has been the best point guard in the ACC. 

So if someone could please fill me in that would be great.

[HaleParticipant]

The same reason Dirk won an MVP I guess? When you play on a winner you get way more leeway, fair or not. Personally I’m with you, I think Warren deserves POY.

[HaleParticipant]

The same reason Dirk won an MVP I guess? When you play on a winner you get way more leeway, fair or not. Personally I’m with you, I think Warren deserves POY.

[dcaseParticipant]

The whole idea of voting for the player of the year in a conference or nationally is subjective.  Of course players that are on better teams are going to get more recognition…..as they should.  Putting up major numbers should be a major factor in POY recognition, but if those numbers don’t translate to success (i.e. wins) it is hard to justify and determine how important that player is.

As far as Ennis goes……I would like to hear who you think is a better PG in the ACC this year.  Yes, there are some guys putting up better scoring numbers but he leads the league in assists and steals and completely runs the team (no other true PG on the team).  He also has one of the best assist/TO ratios and his numbers in the final few miinutes of close games are unreal…..especially for a freshman.  Even with the Cuse’s recent struggles he has been producing.  Again, you could argue that there might be one or two other point guards that have put up more impressive numbers, but I would be hard pressed to come up with another PG in the ACC that means more to his team and has contributed to a teams success as Ennis.

[dcaseParticipant]

The whole idea of voting for the player of the year in a conference or nationally is subjective.  Of course players that are on better teams are going to get more recognition…..as they should.  Putting up major numbers should be a major factor in POY recognition, but if those numbers don’t translate to success (i.e. wins) it is hard to justify and determine how important that player is.

As far as Ennis goes……I would like to hear who you think is a better PG in the ACC this year.  Yes, there are some guys putting up better scoring numbers but he leads the league in assists and steals and completely runs the team (no other true PG on the team).  He also has one of the best assist/TO ratios and his numbers in the final few miinutes of close games are unreal…..especially for a freshman.  Even with the Cuse’s recent struggles he has been producing.  Again, you could argue that there might be one or two other point guards that have put up more impressive numbers, but I would be hard pressed to come up with another PG in the ACC that means more to his team and has contributed to a teams success as Ennis.

[machu46Participant]

I’m a Cuse fan, but I would say Marcus Paige has been a better player this year than Ennis, and it seems like most agree with that based on Paige getting the nod in the All-ACC teams over Ennis by a wide margin.

[machu46Participant]

I’m a Cuse fan, but I would say Marcus Paige has been a better player this year than Ennis, and it seems like most agree with that based on Paige getting the nod in the All-ACC teams over Ennis by a wide margin.

[ncballer]

 Not to beat a dead horse, but UNC would be a below .500 team without Marcus Paige and how he has single handily time and time again put UNC on his back.  I do think Syracuse would be worse without Ennis, but Paige is much more valuable to UNC’s success than Ennis is to Syracuse’s IMHO.  

[ncballer]

 Not to beat a dead horse, but UNC would be a below .500 team without Marcus Paige and how he has single handily time and time again put UNC on his back.  I do think Syracuse would be worse without Ennis, but Paige is much more valuable to UNC’s success than Ennis is to Syracuse’s IMHO.  

[dcaseParticipant]

They are both very important to their respective teams.  Taking Paige off of UNC would definitely hurt them in a major way but they do have a back up point guard that could at least fill in and run the show (Britt).  Syracuse on the other hand does not have a single back up point guard.  Yeah Gbinije handles the ball when Ennis gets his couple of minutes of rest, but by no means is he a PG.  This again supports how important Ennis has been to Syracuse’s success this year.

 

[dcaseParticipant]

They are both very important to their respective teams.  Taking Paige off of UNC would definitely hurt them in a major way but they do have a back up point guard that could at least fill in and run the show (Britt).  Syracuse on the other hand does not have a single back up point guard.  Yeah Gbinije handles the ball when Ennis gets his couple of minutes of rest, but by no means is he a PG.  This again supports how important Ennis has been to Syracuse’s success this year.

 

[surveParticipant]

 I understand what you are saying but that shouldnt factor in just because Cuse doesnt have a backup.  Remember, UNC lost their leading scorer this year.  So if you are using Cuse not having a backup then not having PJ Hairston is a valid excuse too.  Someone had to pick up that load….and it wasnt McAdoo and hardly McDonald.  Meeks helped a lot but the load of the perimeter scoring was shouldered by Paige.  Britt is really a non-factor when it comes to scoring…especially on the perimeter.

[surveParticipant]

 I understand what you are saying but that shouldnt factor in just because Cuse doesnt have a backup.  Remember, UNC lost their leading scorer this year.  So if you are using Cuse not having a backup then not having PJ Hairston is a valid excuse too.  Someone had to pick up that load….and it wasnt McAdoo and hardly McDonald.  Meeks helped a lot but the load of the perimeter scoring was shouldered by Paige.  Britt is really a non-factor when it comes to scoring…especially on the perimeter.

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

I agree all-americans should be chosen off individual performance. Team awards are the standings  and post-season tourney championships.

[Scrooge McDuckParticipant]

I agree all-americans should be chosen off individual performance. Team awards are the standings  and post-season tourney championships.

[theprophetParticipant]

after all, it’s comparing fruit to fruit to make a good debate.

@dipotime (whoever wants to jump on this one)

1989/1990 – Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley

1992/1993 – Charles Barkley or Michael Jordan

1996/1997 – Karl Malone or Michael Jordan

1998/1999 – Karl Malone or Tim Duncan or Alonzo Mourning

2002/2003 – Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett

2004/2005 – Steve Nash or Shaquille O’Neal

2005/2006 – Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant

just to name a few.

off similar logic, when was Michael Jordan at his best? you can consider stats, playoffs, etc.
1986/1987, 1987/1988, 1988/1989, 1989/1990, 1990/1991, 1991/1992, 1992/1993, 1995/1996, 1996/1997, 1997/1998

for some reason i would pick one of the championship years over his early prime. he had to do more younger, but he learned how to play with others more and win later on.

as for the mvp, it’s trueness is most valuable player, not necessarily the best. if parker were not on duke, where would duke be? and would they have a chance to win the conference without him? where would nc state be without warren? would they even be relevant? would cuse be in championship talks without ennis? would unc be able to beat the powerhouses on their schedule without paige?

remember erick green?

guess i am saying it’s not definitive, but a good debate.

[theprophetParticipant]

after all, it’s comparing fruit to fruit to make a good debate.

@dipotime (whoever wants to jump on this one)

1989/1990 – Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley

1992/1993 – Charles Barkley or Michael Jordan

1996/1997 – Karl Malone or Michael Jordan

1998/1999 – Karl Malone or Tim Duncan or Alonzo Mourning

2002/2003 – Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett

2004/2005 – Steve Nash or Shaquille O’Neal

2005/2006 – Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant

just to name a few.

off similar logic, when was Michael Jordan at his best? you can consider stats, playoffs, etc.
1986/1987, 1987/1988, 1988/1989, 1989/1990, 1990/1991, 1991/1992, 1992/1993, 1995/1996, 1996/1997, 1997/1998

for some reason i would pick one of the championship years over his early prime. he had to do more younger, but he learned how to play with others more and win later on.

as for the mvp, it’s trueness is most valuable player, not necessarily the best. if parker were not on duke, where would duke be? and would they have a chance to win the conference without him? where would nc state be without warren? would they even be relevant? would cuse be in championship talks without ennis? would unc be able to beat the powerhouses on their schedule without paige?

remember erick green?

guess i am saying it’s not definitive, but a good debate.

[CrossyboyParticipant]

Only really works when comparing players who play the same position, but I always ask myself, if you swapped 2 players around, which team would be most successful? Basically I’m playing the NBA Trade Machine Game.

Ennis’ efficiency is unreal. Would rather have him running my offence.

As for Parker. Think he’s a more skilled scorer, but you could argue that Warren’s contribution has been greater.

[CrossyboyParticipant]

Only really works when comparing players who play the same position, but I always ask myself, if you swapped 2 players around, which team would be most successful? Basically I’m playing the NBA Trade Machine Game.

Ennis’ efficiency is unreal. Would rather have him running my offence.

As for Parker. Think he’s a more skilled scorer, but you could argue that Warren’s contribution has been greater.

[surveParticipant]

Warren’s play has been phenomenal when you factor in his usage rate and efficiency.  Had Parker not been there….Hood wouldve taken more of the load, then you have Cook, Dawkins, etc.   Duke not as good without Parker of course…but when we talk about team success….Warren basically carried State to .500 in the conference.  They have no other guy that can consistently score the ball.  Hell, that was as good as anyone couldve done.

[surveParticipant]

Warren’s play has been phenomenal when you factor in his usage rate and efficiency.  Had Parker not been there….Hood wouldve taken more of the load, then you have Cook, Dawkins, etc.   Duke not as good without Parker of course…but when we talk about team success….Warren basically carried State to .500 in the conference.  They have no other guy that can consistently score the ball.  Hell, that was as good as anyone couldve done.

[CynthiaParticipant]

When I read the title I thought it was going to be an Anti-American post or something. Haha

[CynthiaParticipant]

When I read the title I thought it was going to be an Anti-American post or something. Haha

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 liked to be called Joe?

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 liked to be called Joe?

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Is this sarcasm? Are you bashing college players?

[King CaluchaParticipant]

Is this sarcasm? Are you bashing college players?

[surveParticipant]

 well, Warren did get POY and well deserved.  last year was tough because of what Larkin did on a great team and what Green did on a horrible one.  I thought Green deserved it.  to be in the ACC and lead the nation in scoring is a rare feat.  if you are talking outstanding, that was it.  Larkin didnt have to face double and triple teams.  Green did that and still shot over 50% and dished out over 4apg.  incredible. 

side note:  Bennett got COY, Parker got ROY, and McDaniel got DPOY

 

[surveParticipant]

 well, Warren did get POY and well deserved.  last year was tough because of what Larkin did on a great team and what Green did on a horrible one.  I thought Green deserved it.  to be in the ACC and lead the nation in scoring is a rare feat.  if you are talking outstanding, that was it.  Larkin didnt have to face double and triple teams.  Green did that and still shot over 50% and dished out over 4apg.  incredible. 

side note:  Bennett got COY, Parker got ROY, and McDaniel got DPOY

 

[Author]

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