[highflyer0Participant]

 Watching highlights of Jimmy Butler’s 40 point second half explosion got me thinking about his career in general and how improbable his rise to stardom has been.  When you read his draft profile it seems like he was destined to be an average role player.  He was a four year player at Marquette and never seemed to show signs of stardom, so how did he do it?  Or more importantly, how can teams find the next Jimmy Butler?

Now, obviously guys like Butler are few and far between.  However, I think there is something to be said about his meteoric rise as it relates to how teams evaluate talent.  If you look at guys who have overachieved, (Butler, Crowder, Curry, Wes Matthews, Afflalo, Millsap, Will Barton, Kawhi, CJ Mccollum, Isaiah Thomas and ESPECIALLY Draymond Green), they all have something in common.  And that is, they are not only extremely hard workers, but they are "intelligent" hard workers.  They not only impress with their intensity on the court but also with their demeanor off the court.  It seems like it is somewhat taboo to talk about a player’s "real" intelligence.  I don’t mean basketball IQ, I mean their actual IQ.  And I understand the apprehension, because we can never know for sure what a player’s personality truly is.  However, the draft process is based on "what-ifs" and assumptions so I think it’s okay to talk about a player’s intelligence, especially when it seems to have such a profound impact on the type of player they become.  

I’m not trying to suggest that I’m saying anything truly profound, as it’s obvious that smart, hardworking people are more successful.  However, I do think that a player’s mental makeup should perhaps become an even larger part of the draft process.  There is really no reason why Jimmy Butler should be an NBA star.  He didn’t have the hype or the flash or the accolades.  He is just a smart guy with an amazing work ethic and very good physical tools, who plays extremely hard.  And maybe that’s all that really matters.

That being said, a couple of guys who seem to fit this profile to me are Jaylen Brown (no surprise there) and Buddy Hield.  If history is any indication, I think those two could end up much better than they are projected to be (although Brown is already very highly regarded).  I also think that this bodes favorably for Justise Winslow and Stanley Johnson.  

Again, I’m not claiming to have made an amazing discovery, as I know personality plays a role in the draft process already.  I just think it’s interesting how strong of a connection there seems to be (especially in today’s NBA) between an intelligent, grounded player and NBA success, regardless of whether they were hyped up as prospects or not.     

  

  

 

 

 

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Man Stop it!!!! U stole this topic out of 1 of my mines!!!!!!!! 

[DrivingDownTheStreetinmy64]

 Man Stop it!!!! U stole this topic out of 1 of my mines!!!!!!!! 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 Kyrie Irving was picked #1 & clearly Kyrie is a stud….. Brendan Knight (#8), Kemba Walker (#9), Klay Thompson (#11), Kawhi Leanoard (#15)……

 A bunch of other Really good players were taken…… Reggie Jackson (#24), Nikola Mirotic (#23), Kenneth Faried (#22), Nikola Vucevic (#16), Tobias Harris (#19), Tristan Thompson (#4), Markief Morris (#13)….. there are others…..

But if that Draft was re-drafted – I’d have to think the top 3 would be Irving, Leonard & Butler in some order…. goes to show what a crap shoot the Draft really is….. & just how important it is to have a GM who can spot talent…. Butler is a Beast!

 

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 Kyrie Irving was picked #1 & clearly Kyrie is a stud….. Brendan Knight (#8), Kemba Walker (#9), Klay Thompson (#11), Kawhi Leanoard (#15)……

 A bunch of other Really good players were taken…… Reggie Jackson (#24), Nikola Mirotic (#23), Kenneth Faried (#22), Nikola Vucevic (#16), Tobias Harris (#19), Tristan Thompson (#4), Markief Morris (#13)….. there are others…..

But if that Draft was re-drafted – I’d have to think the top 3 would be Irving, Leonard & Butler in some order…. goes to show what a crap shoot the Draft really is….. & just how important it is to have a GM who can spot talent…. Butler is a Beast!

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 What makes these guys intellegent? I’m not really understanding because by intellegent I thought you were referring to players that stayed in college ( I know that doesn’t make someone intelligent) for atleast 3 years and then you go on to list Jaylen Brown ( a freshman ) and two one and dones.

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

 What makes these guys intellegent? I’m not really understanding because by intellegent I thought you were referring to players that stayed in college ( I know that doesn’t make someone intelligent) for atleast 3 years and then you go on to list Jaylen Brown ( a freshman ) and two one and dones.

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

You guys are funny. I ask a legit question and I get negged. Again I ask, What makese the guys intelligent?

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

You guys are funny. I ask a legit question and I get negged. Again I ask, What makese the guys intelligent?

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Don’t get to upset about getting negged lol. I didn’t give you a neg on the comment but there could be to reasons why you got them.

The person giving you the thumbs down may have thought you were insinuating they are not intelligent players in which you maybe right or wrong and they may have disagreed with. If they thought that and disagreed you provided no arguement backing that proposed insinuation.

The person giving you the thumbs down may have thought you wanted to know what the OP meant by intelligence in which the OP clearly stated what he/she meant by intelligence and you know what the defenition of intelligence is so the question is irrelevant if you read the original statement.

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Don’t get to upset about getting negged lol. I didn’t give you a neg on the comment but there could be to reasons why you got them.

The person giving you the thumbs down may have thought you were insinuating they are not intelligent players in which you maybe right or wrong and they may have disagreed with. If they thought that and disagreed you provided no arguement backing that proposed insinuation.

The person giving you the thumbs down may have thought you wanted to know what the OP meant by intelligence in which the OP clearly stated what he/she meant by intelligence and you know what the defenition of intelligence is so the question is irrelevant if you read the original statement.

 

 

 

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 This is the key word in NBA circles. Front offices tend to think freshmen have it and seniors don’t. Butler and Green are two very good examples that show a players potential to improve is limited only by how hard and how smart they work, not by how young they are.

[ChoppyParticipant]

 This is the key word in NBA circles. Front offices tend to think freshmen have it and seniors don’t. Butler and Green are two very good examples that show a players potential to improve is limited only by how hard and how smart they work, not by how young they are.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I think what set’s these players apart is that they are well aware of their main strenghts and weaknesses. If you look at Butler, he came in as a defensive type of guy. Knowing this he initially put his energy during the game on defending, while not forcing things on offense in order to keep him in the game. In addition, he knew his offense was only so-so, so he started to improve that outside of the game by focusing on his offensive game step by step. First, by shooting better from long range. Then by improving his pull-up game and ball-handling. And finally, by focusing on controling the game on offense by not only shooting, but also by passing.

The other players you mention have sort the same, in that they first played to their strenghts, and slowly tried to incorporate more into their game as they got more experience.

The issue is that while most college players will say they want to become a complete player, defense is important etc. etc. a lot of them actually (especially when picked high) want to become a star player (e.g. Waiters). Having said that, my feeling is that more and more young players become aware they need to focus on their game step by step, and that they gain playing time by focusing on their strenghts. For example, look at Mudiay. He is not a finished product at all, but he at least provides very good defense and nice passing, which we his strenghts before coming into the league. In the next couple of years he should first focus on becoming a consistent outside spot-up shooter, before continueing to the next phase of his game.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

I think what set’s these players apart is that they are well aware of their main strenghts and weaknesses. If you look at Butler, he came in as a defensive type of guy. Knowing this he initially put his energy during the game on defending, while not forcing things on offense in order to keep him in the game. In addition, he knew his offense was only so-so, so he started to improve that outside of the game by focusing on his offensive game step by step. First, by shooting better from long range. Then by improving his pull-up game and ball-handling. And finally, by focusing on controling the game on offense by not only shooting, but also by passing.

The other players you mention have sort the same, in that they first played to their strenghts, and slowly tried to incorporate more into their game as they got more experience.

The issue is that while most college players will say they want to become a complete player, defense is important etc. etc. a lot of them actually (especially when picked high) want to become a star player (e.g. Waiters). Having said that, my feeling is that more and more young players become aware they need to focus on their game step by step, and that they gain playing time by focusing on their strenghts. For example, look at Mudiay. He is not a finished product at all, but he at least provides very good defense and nice passing, which we his strenghts before coming into the league. In the next couple of years he should first focus on becoming a consistent outside spot-up shooter, before continueing to the next phase of his game.

[MatosParticipant]

 But potential is still more profound in freshman and sophomores than seniors fellas. Butler and Green are exceptions and really just "diamonds in the rough". You have more Kyrie Irving, Paul George, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kawhi Leonard players than Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green. 

But that isnt to say there arent great players who stayed in college 3+ years. Just saying there is more potential in the younger players. We are not NBA scouts as much as we try to be. Those guys get paid the big bucks so I can’t get mad at the notion of people expecting them to be more accurate in finding Jimmy Butlers and Draymond Greens earlier in the draft.

You also have to factor in the development of the staff and opportunity players have on teams. 

 

 

 

 

[MatosParticipant]

 But potential is still more profound in freshman and sophomores than seniors fellas. Butler and Green are exceptions and really just "diamonds in the rough". You have more Kyrie Irving, Paul George, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kawhi Leonard players than Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green. 

But that isnt to say there arent great players who stayed in college 3+ years. Just saying there is more potential in the younger players. We are not NBA scouts as much as we try to be. Those guys get paid the big bucks so I can’t get mad at the notion of people expecting them to be more accurate in finding Jimmy Butlers and Draymond Greens earlier in the draft.

You also have to factor in the development of the staff and opportunity players have on teams. 

 

 

 

 

[YungmUNyParticipant]

 One of the guys who fits that description is Nigel Hayes. The guy’s being overlooked because of the season Wisconsin is having, but the guy does pretty much everything well and seems to have a really great motor. I’m really surprised he’s projected in the mid-second round in this site’s mock. He’s having an unusually bad season from the field, but 16/7/4 is still a great main stat-line for a 6’8" combo forward, especially for a player on a team like Wisconsin, which only averages 70.1 ppg (252nd in the NCAA). 

[YungmUNyParticipant]

 One of the guys who fits that description is Nigel Hayes. The guy’s being overlooked because of the season Wisconsin is having, but the guy does pretty much everything well and seems to have a really great motor. I’m really surprised he’s projected in the mid-second round in this site’s mock. He’s having an unusually bad season from the field, but 16/7/4 is still a great main stat-line for a 6’8" combo forward, especially for a player on a team like Wisconsin, which only averages 70.1 ppg (252nd in the NCAA). 

[Author]

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