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Probably the most overrated prospect this year....

mess.eee
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Probably the most overrated prospect this year....

Can someone explain to me why Derrick Favors is a consensus top 5 pick ? Out of all the PF in this draft, he is probably the most raw offensively.

He has average size for an NBA PF (I would be shock if he measures anything taller than 6'9), hes athletic, but not in the same class as Blake Griffin.

Some people have compared him to Antonio McDyess, but he is not in the same class as McDyess athletically.

I like that he is a good defensive player, which brings the comparison to Serge Ibaka a little more logical, instead of McDyess.

At worst, I see Favors as being a Serge Ibaka and his highest ceiling is probably Al Horford.

So is he still worth a top 5 selection to you guys ??


the27guy
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Good post

I've thought the same thing. But I think the reason he's still consensus top 5 is two fold. First, most feel that his guards did a really poor job of getting him the ball where he needed it. Second, he had a guy in front of him (Lawal) that is also going to play in the NBA. Combine those facts with how he dominated at the HS level (I heard something about how he dominated Cousins) and that leads to consensus top 5....

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I kinda agree, I think alot

I kinda agree, I think alot of it is that hes still living off of high school hype...
Didnt do anything spectacular with his time at GT to be considered a top 5 pick if you ask me..

But he is quite athletic, I guess he has the physical tools to be something special one day....hes ALOT of potential, that hasnt quite shown the production

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I feel exactly the same way

I feel exactly the same way and I hate that he's higher than Cousins on about 60% of draft boards. Every time I watched him, he never looked the least bit assertive and it's hard to tell what kind of game he has, and his indecision in whether to attack the basket or post up made it hard to tell how athletic he really is, because he always looked awkward to me. I can't for the life of me figure how he put up decent numbers, and I really think he NEEDS another year in school, but obviously that's not happening. I never saw much from him on the defensive end, but his shot-blocking numbers suggest he's a reasonably good defender. I like the Ibaka/Horford comparison, but in his defense, he does have slightly above average size for the PF position in the NBA...not great, but above average. Maybe I just think less of him because of how many more proven big men there are in this draft, most of whom are projected to go after him. I agree he's very overrated.

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i'll catch heat for this

i think you are on point with favors for sure, but i think evan turner is super overrated. i get he's a good player and all, but the style that he played at ohio st. is not what he'll be playing in the nba. at ohio st., he practically had the ball in his hands most of the game on the offensive end. i just can't see that happening in the nba because he doesn't have those dwayne wade type scoring skills. and to further my point, if he doesn't have the ball in his hands; he's going to have a tough time scoring because he's not a great shooter. he's going to be left open to prevent the drive like kobe did to westbrook in the playoffs.

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i copetely disagree with juves4783 comment

no man I totally disagree, I understand he had the ball a majority of the time but he can play in the league,he has all the tools hes 6'7 athletic can andle like a point and can attack the rim, plus in the nba there is a bit more spacing than in the college game so that also helps . you do have a point hes not a great shooter but its good enough to respect and its all ways something you can work on, also he might be better in more of and up and down system where he can handle and create rather than a team that runs halfcourt sets. But he should be fine because he has good enough pg skills to run and offense and he can also create huge mismatches because other pg's arent big enough. He woul be a good fit with another scoring pg along side him, but you cant calll him overrated hell do fine in the league I was very impressed the way he carried ohio state

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not in the same class athletically

this dude can do some sick dunks

im sure he could get his head to the rim and do a between the legs dunk

how much more athletic do you want him to be?

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Well, since you said his

Well, since you said his highest ceiling is Al Horford who's an all-star center
I think thats good enough to be drafted in the top 5
I mean, out of everybody in the draft there will probably be about 3-5 all-stars this draft
So, if you said he's going to be an al horford, thats good

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@ StF616

I say that his highest ceiling is Al Horford because Favors is so raw offensively, that I doubt he ever averages higher than 14PPG in his career.

Would I take an Al Horford type player in top 5....YES. But Favors is such a question mark that he can really go either way, he may end up being a Tyrus Thomas, or who knows. When I watch Favors, the guy moves so "robotic" and just doesn't look smooth offensively. He shows little to no demeanor on the court, shows no emotion, which also makes me question his effort.

When Al Horford was playing in Florida, you knew exactly what you were going to get with him, intensity, and great effort, which rivaled his team mate Joakim Noah. With Favors, it looks like hes just on a "cruise control" mode. I like Cousins a lot more because he shows a nasty mean streak.

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yeah those are dunks he does

yeah those are dunks he does in dunk contest. he doesnt do that when he has a defender on him. how many sports center highlight do you remeber seeing him go through someone and dunking?. is he athletic..yes. but he doesnt have the same aggressiveness with it that mcd or amare had at the same stage. and how often does a guy that raw on offense becomes a super star? right now with favors its all potential which means hes not a sure thing by any means. he is a good rebounder and shot blocker. i think the guard thing is a excuse because when he did get the ball he had no moves other then jump high and be stronger then the overmatched guy guarding him. he only scored consistantly if guards created for him which he will get less of in the nba early on because he wont be the offensive option that he was with GT. all that dominating in hs doesnt mean much once youre out of hs. that actually kind of hurts him because the guards on his hs team were even worst then the ones on his college team. plus he never showed he had that go hard in him like some of the other leapers hes compared to. i think cousins is and will be a better player because hes wayyyyyy more skilled. when he gets the ball he knows exactly what to do with it and he had patterson down low with him

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Favors is another Chris

Favors is another Chris Wilcox to me, but these teams will bite and draft him in the top 5. He's not as aggressive or as nasty as Amare, and he isn't quite the physical specimen Amare is watching him either. But he will score a decent amount and get a decent amount of blocks and rebounds because he is a great athlete and specimen. With taht said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Favors measured at 6'7 or 6'8 at the combine. He's athletic and strong, but he doesn't really play as imposing or as physical as he looks all the time. He's definitely not Amare or Antonio McDyess. He plays nearly the exact same way Wilcox does.

the lake show
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i wouldnt be suprised if he

i wouldnt be suprised if he didnt even pan out to be as good as wilcox but i think he will. wilcox was also more aggressive. in college even though he was raw as well. even as a freshman he used to put it on future nba big men's head. didnt really have post moves but if he got the ball and his feet were set he was making someoone a poster

whyyouhating
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He is def not 6'7" or 6'8"

I respect you guy's b ball minds but IMO I think he will be a better pro not right away but in year 2 and 3
I don't think he is no worst than 6'9 1/2" with shoes on Lawal was over 6'8 and Favors was taller than him.
He is raw and he is not better than Cousins right now, Cousins is under him because he has issues
outside the court and on. This kids work ethic and character have been known to be great.
He is athletic has hell and has nice frame to work with.
I think he deferred to much last year, he should have been the go to guy like in the tourney when they were winning.
He wanted to fit in to much.
He is also young and will developed he got a shot to develop into something special that why he is rated that high.
Scouts look at him and say we can work with this http://crazymotion.net/derrick-favors-mix-athletic-animal/wRHld4VItav0jA...
kid and make him something special.
After watching him interview and going back and looking at G-tech games I see it happening.
The highest shots he took was at MD and ARK-PB with 15 shots in each game. Double doubles in both.
21 14 against Maryland. shot 61 % on fg.

ball4life66
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The dude is NOT that raw.

The dude is NOT that raw. Please explain to me why people keep saying that? I watched a lot of his games in high school and every single GT game and he is a beast. Why is he a top 5 pick? UHH lets see he is 6'10 250, can jump out of the gym, hard worker, solid offensive game, great rebounder and a great shot blocker. I guarentee he will be a better NBA player than Chris Wilcox and I will be suprised if he isn't better than Al Horford. Pretty sure Favors put up better numbers as a freshman than Horford did. There is a reason some had him the #1 player in the nation in high school and he was BY FAR GT's best player at the end of the year. Not to mention he is young for his age and still 18 years old. He will be a star. MARK IT DOWN.

ball4life66
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Would I take an Al Horford

Would I take an Al Horford type player in top 5....YES. But Favors is such a question mark that he can really go either way, he may end up being a Tyrus Thomas, or who knows. When I watch Favors, the guy moves so "robotic" and just doesn't look smooth offensively. He shows little to no demeanor on the court, shows no emotion, which also makes me question his effort.

When Al Horford was playing in Florida, you knew exactly what you were going to get with him, intensity, and great effort, which rivaled his team mate Joakim Noah. With Favors, it looks like hes just on a "cruise control" mode. I like Cousins a lot more because he shows a nasty mean streak."

Dude that is just how Favors is. He doesn't yell after every time he dunks or ever trash talk anybody. How are you going to penalize him for that? Also he is a freak athlete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Od-U5IF4s

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He is not a polished post

He is not a polished post player man. He's got a very raw post game. His only legit move down low is a drop step really. His post game is Dwight Howard-esque (not exactly a good thing), except he doesn't try to dunk it every time like Howard does. He's pretty raw. He gets by on strength and athleticism right now, not by a truly good amount of skill.

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georgia tech

He was the second best post player on his team after Gani Lawal. so yeah he is overrated but NBA people love him.

ball4life66
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"He was the second best post

"He was the second best post player on his team after Gani Lawal. so yeah he is overrated but NBA people love him."

At the end of the year Favors surpassed him as the best post player on the team. Gani Lawal was dominant at the beginning of the year when we faced cupcakes teams but didn't do as well during ACC play. Gani is what I would call exteremely raw.....when Favors stayed out of foul trouble he was clearly the best player on the team.

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@ ball4life66

Favors is 6'10 250lbs ?? Solid offensive game ?? What games have you been watching ? Favors was 6'8 215lbs when he was a senior in High School, thats a hell of a growth spurt, and a ton of steroids to take to go up to 250lbs. Hes not even the most athletic PF in this draft, I would have to say Stanley Robinson is.

And YES, he is that RAW. Tell me one good thing he does offensively? Seriously, id like to know ?

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^He's talking about Derrick

^He's talking about Derrick Favors my friend. Not Evan Turner.

yaboymal
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i know iwas replying to juves4783 comment

i know i was replying to juves4783 comment he mentioned that evan turner was very overrated

ball4life66
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"He is not a polished post

"He is not a polished post player man. He's got a very raw post game. His only legit move down low is a drop step really. His post game is Dwight Howard-esque (not exactly a good thing), except he doesn't try to dunk it every time like Howard does. He's pretty raw. He gets by on strength and athleticism right now, not by a truly good amount of skill."

I am not saying he is extremely skilled but he does have a good amount of skill. Like you said he doesn't try to dunk it everytime like Howard so their is a reason he shot 61% from the field last year. From watching both Howard and Favors in high school Favors offensive game is much better. He has a nice jump hook and solid mid range game. He didn't shoot a 3 during college but regularly hit it in high school.

ball4life66
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"Favors is 6'10 250lbs ??

"Favors is 6'10 250lbs ?? Solid offensive game ?? What games have you been watching ? Favors was 6'8 215lbs when he was a senior in High School, thats a hell of a growth spurt, and a ton of steroids to take to go up to 250lbs. Hes not even the most athletic PF in this draft, I would have to say Stanley Robinson is.

And YES, he is that RAW. Tell me one good thing he does offensively? Seriously, id like to know ?"

Are you serious 6'8 215? You really believe that? Favors was 6'9 230 in high school and really hit the weights when he got to college. Offensively he is very good around the rim, solid mid range shot and has a nice jump hook and his offensive game will only get better...he is only 18 years old.

Also Gani Lawal measured in at 6'9 with shoes at the combine last year and Favors looks taller than him. According to the GT site he is 6'10 246 and that was at the beggining of the year so I am sure he put on more pounds of muscle.

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/favors_derrick00.html

mess.eee
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Gani Lawal isn't necessarily

Gani Lawal isn't necessarily a lottery prospect (may not even crack the 1st round), so saying Favors out played Lawal at times really isnt saying a whole lot.

And you pretty much made my point by saying Favors plays a bit like Dwight Howard. Howard has still yet to polish his offensive game yet. But Favors is not 7'0 265lbs with 7'6 wingspan that Howard is. Favors is light years away from being an NBA offensive threat in my eyes. His only impact will be on the defensive end early on. He has Serge Ibaka-Tyrus Thomas written all over him.

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I compare the hype around

I compare the hype around Favors as a top draft pick to the same hype around Marvin Williams when he came out a couple years back. Everyone knows their skill set is not ready to immediate impact nba games immediately, but there's still the potential that they can become something great. Both have all the physical TOOLS to be a player at the next level. However, I want guys who can become AT LEAST a fringe all-star at some point if I'm expending a top-4 pick on you, and an immediate starter or an impact 6 or 7th man as a rookie. As solid of a player Marvin has turned himself into, its safe to say he'll prolly never reach that status (fringe all-star).
So in regard to Favors, his famed prep career, and the little bit of flashes he's shown in college, along with his potential is gonna boost him up, maybe unnecessarily, in the draft. I think he's gonna turn out ok, but ultimately he'll be an overdrafted role player, in which many people drafted below him will provide better value where they were drafted. I don't understand why GM's still don't learn their lesson with these prospects. Stop succumbing to the hype generated by high school recruiting and draft sites, trust your scouting (although this is probably what they're doing and its not working). I like his game though, seems like he just needs more reps at a high level of basketball. Hopefully this is in the nba and not the nbdl...

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My bad yaboymal Ball4life66,

My bad yaboymal

Ball4life66, Dwight Howard had the same post game Favors does. Both can hit jump hooks and usually rely on drop steps. Favors isn't the finisher Howard is/was because he's not that level an athlete and he isn't as nasty a finisher. Favors has shown more face-up ability than Howard, which makes his have a slightly different dimension to his game, but he's not any better really offensively. His mid-range isn't a true weapon right now, it's more like a flash in the pan. And he didn't regularly make 3's in HS. He made a few every now and then. I watched Favors play alot of games in HS, he never was a great shooter like that. He has to have other create shots for him for the most part. He's also not a good ball-handler, so he's rarely going to be given the opportunity to face up in the NBA.

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no problem bro

no problem bro

ball4life66
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Gani won't be a lottery

Gani won't be a lottery pick....i think he will be a late first rounder/early second round pick. Also Gani is 2 1/2 years older than Favors...also Favors was a lot better than Gani at the same stage.

When did I say he played a bit like Howard? They are totally different players.

mess.eee
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Hey ball4life66

look couple of post above, you said:

"He is not a polished post player man. He's got a very raw post game. His only legit move down low is a drop step really. His post game is Dwight Howard-esque (not exactly a good thing), except he doesn't try to dunk it every time like Howard does. He's pretty raw. He gets by on strength and athleticism right now, not by a truly good amount of skill."

whyyouhating
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he bulked up a lot

I know we all saw him in high school and how skinny he was he put on a lot of muscle from high school to
college. I believe this limited him a little but what it showed was his work ethic and how he is willing to work hard.
He is not 6'8 He looks taller than Blake Griffin and he is a powerful dunker and really athletic.
I think he is worth a top 5 pick.

ball4life66
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Ball4life66, Dwight Howard

Mr. 6000 I agree with a lot of what you said but Howard did not have much offensive game if any in high school. I saw Favors a lot too and he averaged atleast one 3 pointer a game while taking maybe two a game. Favors has a much better offensive game at the same stage. I agree he is not a good ball handler at all but with practice he can obviously get much better. You can just look at Favors stroke and tell that if he really works on it he can be a great shooter. His potential is unlimited...

ball4life66
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mess.eee I didn't say that

mess.eee I didn't say that Mr. 6000 did. I was just quoting what he said.

mess.eee
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Oh I see...HAHA. This forum

Oh I see...HAHA. This forum can get cluttered.

ball4life66
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Scoutguru even if Favors

Scoutguru even if Favors didn't pan out to be an all star he will atleast be a great rebounder and shot blocker something Marvin Williams isn't. I honestly thought Marvin would be a solid not great pro and was mad when the Hawks took him #2.

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yea you're right. But Marvin

yea you're right. But Marvin is a 3 though, so the rebounding a shot blocking expectations aren't the same. But yeas its better to go big on potential cause their effect on the game is still felt more on the game as oppose to a wing not panning out as a top pick. But I think you're using the word "great" kinda loosely there. We'll have to see how he translates in those areas as his career progresses.

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best/worst

i could see him having the same future as someone like Kenyon Martin. he could be a guy who can get everyone pumped up, get some high flying dunks, big blocks, and has room to put on weight for rebounding. top five is kinda out there but if he ends up being 6'10 than i would take my chances.

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OJ MAYO SYNDROME Everyone

OJ MAYO SYNDROME

Everyone thought Oj would be a bust at the pro level because he was so laid back in USC.

Favors will be a better Pro then High School player

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@ 7chakras

OJ Mayo and Derrick Favors situations are completely different.

There was never a question about OJ Mayo's ability, it was his maturity and character is what scouts questioned. As a basketball player, and talent wise, scouts never had such questions about Mayo.

Favors on the other hand is raw, and many people aren't sure what type of basketball player hes going to be.

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i didnt see favors play much,

i didnt see favors play much, but when i did i saw a gifted player. the size isnt that important to me as i think he will measure in at 6 9 in shoes and around 235 to 240 and he will add weight to that frame. but put favors in a pick and roll and he will be productive. also, i think the post up game is over rated for a player like favors. when amare posts up, he turns and faces the basket and then makes his move with his superior quickness. favors has that ability. so when a gm sees an athletic strong pf with quickness and the ability to beat a man with his first step, you have a top 5 pick. he gets a solid 18 foot jumper, its game over for defenders. chris wilcox was raw in the post but could NEVER take his man off the dribble. favors can, and with hard work can be a 20 and 10 guy. and that is a top 5 pick.

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Favors

Favors, in my opinion, has enough potential that GMs are willing to take the risk...his frame and athleticism, I think, are unquestionable. Add to that the fact that GT had awful, awful play from their guards this year (if you saw their games, their guards turned the ball over constantly and couldn't find a way to consistently get the ball down to Favors), and he's still a very tantalizing prospect...

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He's only 18.. People stop

He's only 18.. People stop growing at what, about 21 years old? That's 3 more years to develop his body.

I can see him being similar to Amare Stoudemire--except slightly less of an offensive threat and slightly more of a defensive presence

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and less athletic and not as

and less athletic and not as aggressive, less handles , less jumper.. basically wilcox.. yeah you stop growing at 21 but how many players have you seen continue to grow after gettng drafted?..not that it matters because his height isnt the issue his skills are.

And its obvious he is raw when watching his games. even in his. he scored by out running jumping or over powering. he didnt do up and unders and reverse pivots and the rest of the big men moves in hs either. and why do people keep bringing up hs?..what does that have to do with college and the nba? ed cota could shoot in hs every d1 player damn near dominates in hs. when youre alot bigger taller stronger and more athletic then yeah you do look like youre all world and so skilled in hs. thats common sense. thats another reason when you know a player is raw or overrated because some keep bringing up what they did in hs while playing against guys 5 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter

favors rarely took his man off the dribble and ive seen wilcox take his man off the dribble for one hand dunks while at maryland. so im not sure what you said NEVER because thats a LIE it wasnt something he did very often but he did do it

hes also not as aggressive as kmart

i dont think theres on scouting report on this guy that doesnt say he has a raw offensive game. every gm nba scouting report says the same thing as well " long athletic good rebounder raw offense

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The best comparison for

The best comparison for Favors is a healthy Kenyon Martin. He's an athletic freak, with protypical NBA PF size, and the ability to be a shutdown defender. Rebounding & shot blocking are the skills that translate the most accurately from college to the pros. He excels at both. He's not going to be a #1 option on any team in his career. But he can be a lockdown defender in the mold that KMart was with the Nets (KMart often guarded the opponents best player, regardless if he was a 2, 3, 4, or 5).

With a good PG, Favors can put up points in transition & in the pick & roll. You're not going to post him up, feed him the ball & let him do all the work. In the right offense though, he can put up points.

I can see Favors average 18 points, 11 rebounds & 2 blocks per game in the NBA.

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I wholeheartedly agree with

I wholeheartedly agree with TheNetsfan

surve
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Cousins is a wide body, and

Cousins is a wide body, and he plays exactly the way he is supposed to play. He knows how to use his strengths. Thats his game. He will be more NBA ready and have a bigger impact than Favors more than likely, but the upside is with Favors. What you are overlooking is, Cousins had a MUCH better supporting cast than Favors. Pretty much Favors WAS Ga. Tech this year. There is a reason Hewitt was close to being fired. Guard play was very erratic, style of play was confusing, and a consistent lineup and focus game in-out was lacking. Were it not for Favors they wouldve finished at the very bottom....also in my book still amazes me how they got in tourney while Va Tech got reamed. Favors basically took over at the end of the year and had to nearly do it all by himself as Lawal disappeared for long stretches. Favors is a very good defender and his offense may be limited, but not raw, I think there is a difference. The one on one play of the NBA will help his inside game. Once guys like Olajuwon get to working with him, he will be alright.

surve
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My take on the argument of

My take on the argument of "raw" offensive talent is that the term is misconstrued a lot of times and can be an illusion. For big men like Favors, I think that people look at the fact that if a guy his size cant consistently hit a 15 footer or doesnt have an array of post moves that he is raw offensively. This is true, but only to a certain degree. Favors (and Ed Davis comes to mind) is limited right now in his repertoire but I think he has the tools to be a good offensive player. Also, being a good offensive player doesnt necessarily mean you have to be a natural scorer or have a scorer's mentality. Ewing was always known more for his defense at Gtown than his offense, which couldve been viewed as very raw at the time. In the pros he was a deadly offensive player but still not the offensive talent and unstoppable machine that Olajuwon was. I remember Olden Polynice and Horace Grant going head to head in the ACC and Polynice was clearly the more natural scorer although Grant averaged more per game. Polynice had the sickest turnaround jumper out at the time but all Grant did was score most of his points off of garbage buckets and very deep low post positioning, using his athleticism. Polynice was taken with the 8th pick that year and Grant with the 10th....Polynice was traded no sooner than he put his hat on, for Pippen. Grant stayed with the Bulls and the rest was history. Grant turned out to be a more well rounded and all purpose scorer than Polynice but Polynice was viewed as more polished offensively. (Also Grant was a center in college) My point is, I think too much emphasis is put on the word "raw" at times. Some guys just naturally know how to get the ball in the basket, because thats their mentality. Others it may take a while longer for them to find their comfort zone and a good assortment of go-to moves. If Kareem was in this years draft, some may say his offensive game was raw. I remember Walter Berry facing double and triple teams at St. John's thinking this guy is gonna avg 40ppg once he gets to the NBA and faces single coverage. So back to Favors....his top 5 potential is based on his all-around game, defensively, he is good, offense may be a lil underrated.

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Hell no he is going to be a

Hell no he is going to be a bust. I don't even look at the 1st round on these mocks, I just go straight to the 2nd round. Plenty of steals this year in the 2nd round.

M-DYMES
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Yea this 2nd round is going

Yea this 2nd round is going to have plenty of value, as will the 1st. This is by far the deepest draft I've seen in years. 03 may have had a better 1st round, but this draft overall may be just as valuable. I think a whole lot of teams are going to improve due to the prospects in this draft class.

the lake show
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nope just cant see kmart in

nope just cant see kmart in him.. hes not as explosive as kmart was. and no where near as aggressive. not sure how u see lock down defender since his defense isnt that good. its average at best. he has potential to be pretty good but he also has a nice bust factor as well. i dont know too many guys who scouts say are raw offensively who end up being a very good offensive player by the time they are in there prime. i dont think he will ever be a number one option or number 2. i also find it funny how peopel on here tried to convince me that he will eventually play the three because of what they saw from the McDonalds game and how he was gonna dominate at Georgia Tech

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