[caray12Participant]

 I wonder how you all evaluate players in terms of who is better and who should be rated higher than one another. I rate players by who is the better all around player. Like who is better at scoring, rebounding, passing, shooting, finishing, mid range shooting, 3 point shooting. The other half of the game is defending. So half of the evaluation is on defense and the other half is offense. So I evaluate players on if you can defend your man, multiple players, and/or good team defender. I don’t evaluate players based on what they are going to be in 5 years because we don’t know what they’re going to be in 5 years or evaluate what players going to be like with new personnel. And another thing I evaluate is intangibles. Like is he a good teammate, does he makes his teammates better, is he a leader, and stuff like that.

I been seeing many list players like James Harden as the best shooting guard in the league but people don’t realize that he’s one of the worst defenders in the league. Same goes with players like Stephan Curry and Damien Lillard. You can’t just say they are dynamic shooters and say that’s why they are better than the other guy. You have to judge on all around talent. Not just if a player can dribble the ball really well. Theirs a lot of players that are great offensive players but they are horrible defensive players and plays they don’t have the intangibles to be a big time cornerstone, like DeMarcus Cousins if you say. I believe DeMarcus Cousins has really grown a lot this past summer but his defense is still suspect. I’m going to make a NBA position by position rankings of the 5 best all around players by position:

PG:

 1) Chris Paul – He’s a pit bull on defense,  he makes his teammates better, he’s a leader, he can shoot, and he knows how to play the position. 

2) Russell Westbrook – He’s a dynamic defender, great finisher, a fantastic scorer, he’s a heck of a competitor, and he’s a great rebounder. 

3) Derrick Rose – Dynamic finisher, good defender,  true leader, haves great intangibles, can make all the passes and the best scoring point guard

4) John Wall – Makes teammates better, great defender, great passer, floor general, average shooter, great finisher, great intangibles

5) Rajon Rondo – Great passer, great defender, fantastic rebounder, makes players better, and have the winners mentality

Close 6) Kyle Lowry – Good defender,  great rebounder, good leader, good passer

SG:

1) Kobe Bryant – good shooter, winners mentality,  great finisher, 

2) Dwyane Wade – good defender,  great slasher, great leader, winners mentality

3) James Harden – great slasher, great ball handler, good shooter, create own shot

4) Demar Derozan – good slasher, create own shot, capable defender, good finisher 

5) Klay Thompson – Great Shooter, good defender,  good slasher, capable playmaker

Close 6) Bradley Beal – Great shooter, good ball handler, good defender

SF:

1) LeBron James – great finisher, makes players better, good cutter, good defender, good shooter, great passer, create own shot 

2) Kevin Durant – Great finisher,  great shooter, great shot maker/creater, capable defender,  makes teammates better

3) Paul George – Great cutter, dynamic defender, good playmaker,  descent shot creater

4) Kawhi Leonard – Great slasher, good shooter, outstanding defender, great intangibles

5) Carmelo Anthony – Great post player,  good cutter, shot maker, great rebounder

Closer 6) Luol Deng – Great cutter,  fantastic defender, good shooter,  great intangibles

PF:

1) Anthony Davis – Great defender,  good shooter, great pick and roll/pop player, good passer, great cutter, great intangibles

2) Blake Griffin – great passer, good shooter,  capable post player,  great pick and roll/pop player

3) LaMarcus Aldridge – great shooter,  good post player,  decent defender,  great intangibles

4) Kevin Love – Great shooter, great pick and pop player, good passer, fantastic rebounder

5) Serge Ibaka – Great defender, good pick/pop player, good cutter 

Close 6) Dirk Nowiski – great shooter, great post player, great pick and pop player 

C:

1) Dwight Howard – Great defender,  great pick and roll player, good post player, great rebounder

2) Jokim Noah – Great defender,  great passer, good ball handler, capable shooter, great intangibles

3) Marc Gasol – Great defender, great passer, good post player, capable shooter, great intangibles

4) Al Jefferson – Great post player, capable post defender 

5) DeMarcus Cousins – good shooter,  good post player

Close 6) Marcin Gortat- great pick and roll player, good post player, capable shooter, good defender

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

+1 , but I wondered why you didn’t label serge as a good shooter but you did for Anthony Davis

[DukeDaSquadParticipant]

+1 , but I wondered why you didn’t label serge as a good shooter but you did for Anthony Davis

[caray12Participant]

 Towards the end of making the list I didn’t put some like that on there. See when I was doing the point guards I wrote a lot but when I went to the centers I didn’t white a lot.

[caray12Participant]

 Towards the end of making the list I didn’t put some like that on there. See when I was doing the point guards I wrote a lot but when I went to the centers I didn’t white a lot.

[caray12Participant]

 I know I was going to get negged because Stephan Curry isn’t ranked number 2 as of point guards, Kyrie Irving not ranked in the top 5, James Harden isn’t ranked the top shooting guard,  Damien Lillard isn’t top 5 point guard,  and Kevin Love isn’t the top power forward.  The answer is they are not good defenders and you can make an argument that all of them is horrible defenders. The players that ranked higher because they are the man on their team, have better overall games,  and have better intangibles. If yall can make an valid argument for me to have them higher on this list that comment. You are not the best because you can do fancy lay ups, can cross someone over, shoot the ball, and score. You are the best because you have an all around game.

[caray12Participant]

 I know I was going to get negged because Stephan Curry isn’t ranked number 2 as of point guards, Kyrie Irving not ranked in the top 5, James Harden isn’t ranked the top shooting guard,  Damien Lillard isn’t top 5 point guard,  and Kevin Love isn’t the top power forward.  The answer is they are not good defenders and you can make an argument that all of them is horrible defenders. The players that ranked higher because they are the man on their team, have better overall games,  and have better intangibles. If yall can make an valid argument for me to have them higher on this list that comment. You are not the best because you can do fancy lay ups, can cross someone over, shoot the ball, and score. You are the best because you have an all around game.

[ncballer]

 It just baffles me how similar of careers CP3 and Melo have had, and the amount of respect that is given to each one…

[ncballer]

 It just baffles me how similar of careers CP3 and Melo have had, and the amount of respect that is given to each one…

[HaleParticipant]

The difference is how they fall on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to being selfish.

[HaleParticipant]

The difference is how they fall on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to being selfish.

[ahuang16Participant]

 I love the fact that DeRozan is rated right behind the trio of Harden, Kobe, and Wade.  I feel that he is severely underrated and that he is going to have another great year for Toronto.  He should also make the USA team.

I am curious how close you think the race for the top power forward spot is.

[ahuang16Participant]

 I love the fact that DeRozan is rated right behind the trio of Harden, Kobe, and Wade.  I feel that he is severely underrated and that he is going to have another great year for Toronto.  He should also make the USA team.

I am curious how close you think the race for the top power forward spot is.

[caray12Participant]

 The power forward position is really close and it’s funny because they all have different skill sets.

[caray12Participant]

 The power forward position is really close and it’s funny because they all have different skill sets.

[halfdecayedParticipant]

 I still don’t get why people consider Rose a better scoring point guard than Westbrook.. Put Westbrook on the Bulls and he’ll get 25 to 30 ppg 

[halfdecayedParticipant]

 I still don’t get why people consider Rose a better scoring point guard than Westbrook.. Put Westbrook on the Bulls and he’ll get 25 to 30 ppg 

[XYRYXParticipant]

I like the work you put into this list but I have a few names missing here. 

Afflalo for example is one of the best 2 way players at the 2 and didn’t make your list. 

Rose shouldn’t be included here cause I need to see at least one full season until we know how much he has left. 

Dragic is a better player than Lowry to me. Lowry really turned around the Raptors but he needs a few more seasons to be a top 5 guy to me. You can make the same argument for Dragic but overall Dragic is the better player.

Funny to see K-Love just beeing ranked at #4 at the PFs despite beeing called at top 5 to top 10 overall player since beeing linked to the Cavs but I see Aldridge and Blake on the same level too if not better. AD is the scariest thing since the big ticket was the big ticket and took the league by storm. He get’s a lot of credit before he even made it to the top but he is the next true superstar to me ahead of the Griffins, Walls etc. 

[caray12Participant]

 – Yeah totally forgot all about Arron Afflalo.  He should be number 5 behind Demar Derozan. 

– I didn’t make this list based on past injury injury, but if they were healthy where would they be ranked.

– You can make an argument for Goran Dragic. But Kyle Lowry is a better defender, passer, and floor general. 

–  I don’t see Kevin Love as as top 5 player. He’s a top 20 player. But he had a healthy team this year and he couldn’t carry it to the playoffs. There’s also been reports that he’s bad in the locker room. Kevin Love also don’t play defense, at all.

 

 

 

[caray12Participant]

 – Yeah totally forgot all about Arron Afflalo.  He should be number 5 behind Demar Derozan. 

– I didn’t make this list based on past injury injury, but if they were healthy where would they be ranked.

– You can make an argument for Goran Dragic. But Kyle Lowry is a better defender, passer, and floor general. 

–  I don’t see Kevin Love as as top 5 player. He’s a top 20 player. But he had a healthy team this year and he couldn’t carry it to the playoffs. There’s also been reports that he’s bad in the locker room. Kevin Love also don’t play defense, at all.

 

 

 

[XYRYXParticipant]

I like the work you put into this list but I have a few names missing here. 

Afflalo for example is one of the best 2 way players at the 2 and didn’t make your list. 

Rose shouldn’t be included here cause I need to see at least one full season until we know how much he has left. 

Dragic is a better player than Lowry to me. Lowry really turned around the Raptors but he needs a few more seasons to be a top 5 guy to me. You can make the same argument for Dragic but overall Dragic is the better player.

Funny to see K-Love just beeing ranked at #4 at the PFs despite beeing called at top 5 to top 10 overall player since beeing linked to the Cavs but I see Aldridge and Blake on the same level too if not better. AD is the scariest thing since the big ticket was the big ticket and took the league by storm. He get’s a lot of credit before he even made it to the top but he is the next true superstar to me ahead of the Griffins, Walls etc. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Derrick Rose is a top five player when healthy, but hasn’t been healthy in two years. 

– Rajon Rondo only played 30 games last season and is still finding his way back from an ACL tear. No way he’s top five right now.  

– Stephen Curry is turnover prone and is weak defensively, but he’s way too gifted offensively to be left out of the top five. He didn’t even make your top six. He’s literally a threat everywhere on the floor with or without the ball. He shoots quickly off of the catch and off of the dribble. He’s a great playmaker and passer, but just his presence alone on the floor makes his teammates better. 

– Where is Tony Parker? 

– Tough sell ranking Kobe Bryant number one when he’s had an Achilles tear and broken bone in his knee at his age. He very well could be, but I don’t know how you can put that now. 

– No Lance Stephenson? Led his position with 20 double doubles and led NBA with five triple doubles. He’s a two way player, being able to defend three positions. Best rebounder at his position and one of it’s best playmakers/passers. 

– I understand Carmelo Anthony’s flaws, but there’s no way he’s not the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. I could see the argument for Paul George, but not Kawhi Leonard. Leonard is like the 3rd/4th option on the Spurs. I like Leonard and think he’s going to be that dude soon, but he’s not better than Anthony right now. 

– Anthony Davis is very good right now and going to be great, but ranking him #1 seems pre-mature. He’s not better than Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin or Kevin Love right now. Tim Duncan is still at least a top six player at his position. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caray12Participant]

 – I wasn’t going off if they was injured the previous season. But there all around play. So I don’t really care if they were injured I’m just going off what they can do on the field.

– Same goes with Rajon Rondo

– You can be a 100 on offense but defense is half the game and if you defense is horrendous that negates your offense. It’s really telling that he don’t guard his position and he have to guard the weakest offensive threat on the opposing team.

-Tony Parker not really a shut down defender.

– Go back to the first point I made with Derrick Rose. Plus the shooting guard position is really weak.

– Another point in my ranking is player intangibles and Lance Stevenson is a poor teammates ( according to reports ) and don’t listen to management. 

– You can make an argument for Carmelo Anthony but then look back at the point I made for Stephan Curry.

Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge,  and Kevin Love are not as near good on defense as Anthony Davis. All are pretty poor defenders. You have to value defense as you do offense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Fair enough. Just hard to put a player in the top five when he hasn’t played in two years. The ability to stay on the floor has to factor into these rankings too. 

– Even when healthy, Rondo is a below average shooter except for layups. Shooting is a huge hole in his game. 

– Curry isn’t your ordinary offensive player. He’s special. The attention he draws while playing off of the ball alone makes up for his below average defense. He’s turnover prone, but he’s simply just too efficient and great offensively from everywhere. He’s a superstar offensive player regardless which guard position he’s playing. Defensively, he just needs to be where he’s supposed to. 

– Parker isn’t a shut down defender, but he is where he’s supposed to be. He’s not a liability and he does what he needs to within the team scheme. 

– Kobe hasn’t played defense in years. Dwyane Wade takes more and more plays off defensively every season. 

– Poor reasons. Rondo is moody and has had problems with teammates, coaches and mangement too. So has Kobe. The reports of Stephenson being a poor teammate and not listening to management are overblown. 

– I can see George being ranked above Anthony, but not Leonard. That’s ridiculous. Leonard is a great defender, but he doesn’t have near the offensive or overall responsibilities that Anthony has right now. 

– Griffin was a top five MVP candidate last season. He’s not a shut down defender, but is by no means a poor defender at this point. Aldridge is a solid man defender and is where he’s supposed to be. Love is the only player on the list who’d I’d say is close to being a poor defender. Davis is long, athletic, has great timing blocking shots and is great at filling a stat sheet, however he’s not as good as they are yet… Especially offensively. I think he’ll be the best at his position eventually, but he’s not there yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Fair enough. Just hard to put a player in the top five when he hasn’t played in two years. The ability to stay on the floor has to factor into these rankings too. 

– Even when healthy, Rondo is a below average shooter except for layups. Shooting is a huge hole in his game. 

– Curry isn’t your ordinary offensive player. He’s special. The attention he draws while playing off of the ball alone makes up for his below average defense. He’s turnover prone, but he’s simply just too efficient and great offensively from everywhere. He’s a superstar offensive player regardless which guard position he’s playing. Defensively, he just needs to be where he’s supposed to. 

– Parker isn’t a shut down defender, but he is where he’s supposed to be. He’s not a liability and he does what he needs to within the team scheme. 

– Kobe hasn’t played defense in years. Dwyane Wade takes more and more plays off defensively every season. 

– Poor reasons. Rondo is moody and has had problems with teammates, coaches and mangement too. So has Kobe. The reports of Stephenson being a poor teammate and not listening to management are overblown. 

– I can see George being ranked above Anthony, but not Leonard. That’s ridiculous. Leonard is a great defender, but he doesn’t have near the offensive or overall responsibilities that Anthony has right now. 

– Griffin was a top five MVP candidate last season. He’s not a shut down defender, but is by no means a poor defender at this point. Aldridge is a solid man defender and is where he’s supposed to be. Love is the only player on the list who’d I’d say is close to being a poor defender. Davis is long, athletic, has great timing blocking shots and is great at filling a stat sheet, however he’s not as good as they are yet… Especially offensively. I think he’ll be the best at his position eventually, but he’s not there yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[caray12Participant]

 – I wasn’t going off if they was injured the previous season. But there all around play. So I don’t really care if they were injured I’m just going off what they can do on the field.

– Same goes with Rajon Rondo

– You can be a 100 on offense but defense is half the game and if you defense is horrendous that negates your offense. It’s really telling that he don’t guard his position and he have to guard the weakest offensive threat on the opposing team.

-Tony Parker not really a shut down defender.

– Go back to the first point I made with Derrick Rose. Plus the shooting guard position is really weak.

– Another point in my ranking is player intangibles and Lance Stevenson is a poor teammates ( according to reports ) and don’t listen to management. 

– You can make an argument for Carmelo Anthony but then look back at the point I made for Stephan Curry.

Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge,  and Kevin Love are not as near good on defense as Anthony Davis. All are pretty poor defenders. You have to value defense as you do offense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Derrick Rose is a top five player when healthy, but hasn’t been healthy in two years. 

– Rajon Rondo only played 30 games last season and is still finding his way back from an ACL tear. No way he’s top five right now.  

– Stephen Curry is turnover prone and is weak defensively, but he’s way too gifted offensively to be left out of the top five. He didn’t even make your top six. He’s literally a threat everywhere on the floor with or without the ball. He shoots quickly off of the catch and off of the dribble. He’s a great playmaker and passer, but just his presence alone on the floor makes his teammates better. 

– Where is Tony Parker? 

– Tough sell ranking Kobe Bryant number one when he’s had an Achilles tear and broken bone in his knee at his age. He very well could be, but I don’t know how you can put that now. 

– No Lance Stephenson? Led his position with 20 double doubles and led NBA with five triple doubles. He’s a two way player, being able to defend three positions. Best rebounder at his position and one of it’s best playmakers/passers. 

– I understand Carmelo Anthony’s flaws, but there’s no way he’s not the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. I could see the argument for Paul George, but not Kawhi Leonard. Leonard is like the 3rd/4th option on the Spurs. I like Leonard and think he’s going to be that dude soon, but he’s not better than Anthony right now. 

– Anthony Davis is very good right now and going to be great, but ranking him #1 seems pre-mature. He’s not better than Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin or Kevin Love right now. Tim Duncan is still at least a top six player at his position. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caray12Participant]

 – It’s not all about shooting with Rajon Rondo. He’s a great playmaker, he makes players better, and he’s a capable defender. There were no reports about teammates saying they didn’t know if they wanted him. There wasn’t reports saying he got into a fight with teammate. He also won a ring.

– To be honest Stephan Curry is probably one of the worst defenders in the league if you ask me. He’s not that special on the offensive end to negate his defensive liabilities. He’s a fantastic shooter and a shot maker but he can’t finish with the best with it them. I don’t believe he’s that good of a playmaker either. I mostly believe he racked up most of the assist because of the coaches system and the personnel surrounding him. He don’t make players around him better. 

– I won’t speculate what Tony Parker is capable of if not in the system. He’s a great offensive player. But if you tell me he’s top 5 in his position talent I would laugh.

– Dwyane Wade is still a stout defender and he be guarding the best player on the opposing team nightly. In the playoffs Dwyane Wade was guarding Paul George, not LeBron James. Kobe Bryant is still a capable defender. 

– Carmelo Anthony is a stout offensive player, but he’s an below average defender. Carmelo Anthony tries on defense but that don’t mean he’s a good defender. Kawhi Leonard an outstanding defender and an above average offensive player. 

– Blake Griffin can hide defensively with DeAndre Jordan guarding the paint. Same goes with LaMarcus Aldridge with Brook Lopez. Anthony Davis is a good offensive player. He’s a great pick and roll/pop player, great cutter, good shooter,  great rebounder,  great shot blocker, and capable post player. Anthony Davis is all and round better than all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Rondo is a below average to poor shooter…That’s a huge  hole in his game that can’t be ignored. There have been several reports about Rondo and his attitude/mood. Just last season, he was criticized for skipping a road trip to Sacramento to stay in LA and celebrate his birthday. And why is the ring argument used for Rondo, but not for Parker? Parker not only has a few rings, he also has a Finals MVP. Rondo was an above average role player on the Celtics when he won a ring. That was Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen’s team. 

– Curry isn’t special at the offensive end? It’s not hard to look at stats and see that Curry shot 60% in the restricted area, 43% in the non-restricted area, 49% from mid-range, 48% on left corner 3’s, 38% on right corner 3’s and 43% on 3’s above the break. He’s only behind Kyle Korver when it comes to shooting off of the catch, which he shoots 49% 3’s and 49% overall. He’s arguably the best in the league shooting off of the dribble shooting 39% 3’s and 44% overall. Throw in the fact he shoots 89% from the line on 6 attempts and he has the vision to get the ball to his teammates averaging 9 assists per game. Simply put… The dude is an offense damn near by himself. Let’s not even talk about how he makes his teammates better with his playmaking, making the extra pass, etc… The attention he draws without the ball (he doesn’t even have to score) makes his teammates and the offense that much better. And based on the way he plays, he could co-exist with any player in the world. 

– When you look at Parker’s speed, quickness, P&R play, playmaking, finishing ability, mid-range shooting, vision, clutch play, decision making, intangibles, competitivness, championship pedigree… There’s no way he’s left out of the top five/six point guards.  

– And when D. Wade defended George, he looked outclassed. Wade can defend in spurts, but his defense is no longer worth talking about. Kobe hasn’t played defense in years. He rarely ever guards the best offensive player. He defends the weakest offensive player and sometimes even gives up points to them. 

– I’m not a huge Melo fan, but he’s better than Leonard. You criticize Parker for being a part of the system, but not Leonard? He benefits significantly from it… I’m a Leonard fan, but he’s not better than Melo. 

– Jordan is a very good shot blocker, but his defensive impact is overrated. Players shot damn near 50% at the rim against him. I’m not saying Griffin is a great defender. Just saying he’s at least average at this point. Aldridge is a solid defender on the ball, rotates, etc. Davis is a great shot blocker, but players shot 49% against him at the rim. He’s still learning where to be… Still getting stronger to avoid being bullied down low. Still learning not to just rely on athleticism. He can fill a stat sheet, but he’s still improving. Offensively, his jumpshot is improving, but he’s still more of a finisher… He doesn’t make his teammates better yet. They can’t go to him on the block consistently. I personally think he’ll make a huge jump this season, but based on last season… He’s not better than those other players. 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

– Rondo is a below average to poor shooter…That’s a huge  hole in his game that can’t be ignored. There have been several reports about Rondo and his attitude/mood. Just last season, he was criticized for skipping a road trip to Sacramento to stay in LA and celebrate his birthday. And why is the ring argument used for Rondo, but not for Parker? Parker not only has a few rings, he also has a Finals MVP. Rondo was an above average role player on the Celtics when he won a ring. That was Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen’s team. 

– Curry isn’t special at the offensive end? It’s not hard to look at stats and see that Curry shot 60% in the restricted area, 43% in the non-restricted area, 49% from mid-range, 48% on left corner 3’s, 38% on right corner 3’s and 43% on 3’s above the break. He’s only behind Kyle Korver when it comes to shooting off of the catch, which he shoots 49% 3’s and 49% overall. He’s arguably the best in the league shooting off of the dribble shooting 39% 3’s and 44% overall. Throw in the fact he shoots 89% from the line on 6 attempts and he has the vision to get the ball to his teammates averaging 9 assists per game. Simply put… The dude is an offense damn near by himself. Let’s not even talk about how he makes his teammates better with his playmaking, making the extra pass, etc… The attention he draws without the ball (he doesn’t even have to score) makes his teammates and the offense that much better. And based on the way he plays, he could co-exist with any player in the world. 

– When you look at Parker’s speed, quickness, P&R play, playmaking, finishing ability, mid-range shooting, vision, clutch play, decision making, intangibles, competitivness, championship pedigree… There’s no way he’s left out of the top five/six point guards.  

– And when D. Wade defended George, he looked outclassed. Wade can defend in spurts, but his defense is no longer worth talking about. Kobe hasn’t played defense in years. He rarely ever guards the best offensive player. He defends the weakest offensive player and sometimes even gives up points to them. 

– I’m not a huge Melo fan, but he’s better than Leonard. You criticize Parker for being a part of the system, but not Leonard? He benefits significantly from it… I’m a Leonard fan, but he’s not better than Melo. 

– Jordan is a very good shot blocker, but his defensive impact is overrated. Players shot damn near 50% at the rim against him. I’m not saying Griffin is a great defender. Just saying he’s at least average at this point. Aldridge is a solid defender on the ball, rotates, etc. Davis is a great shot blocker, but players shot 49% against him at the rim. He’s still learning where to be… Still getting stronger to avoid being bullied down low. Still learning not to just rely on athleticism. He can fill a stat sheet, but he’s still improving. Offensively, his jumpshot is improving, but he’s still more of a finisher… He doesn’t make his teammates better yet. They can’t go to him on the block consistently. I personally think he’ll make a huge jump this season, but based on last season… He’s not better than those other players. 

 

 

 

[caray12Participant]

 – It’s not all about shooting with Rajon Rondo. He’s a great playmaker, he makes players better, and he’s a capable defender. There were no reports about teammates saying they didn’t know if they wanted him. There wasn’t reports saying he got into a fight with teammate. He also won a ring.

– To be honest Stephan Curry is probably one of the worst defenders in the league if you ask me. He’s not that special on the offensive end to negate his defensive liabilities. He’s a fantastic shooter and a shot maker but he can’t finish with the best with it them. I don’t believe he’s that good of a playmaker either. I mostly believe he racked up most of the assist because of the coaches system and the personnel surrounding him. He don’t make players around him better. 

– I won’t speculate what Tony Parker is capable of if not in the system. He’s a great offensive player. But if you tell me he’s top 5 in his position talent I would laugh.

– Dwyane Wade is still a stout defender and he be guarding the best player on the opposing team nightly. In the playoffs Dwyane Wade was guarding Paul George, not LeBron James. Kobe Bryant is still a capable defender. 

– Carmelo Anthony is a stout offensive player, but he’s an below average defender. Carmelo Anthony tries on defense but that don’t mean he’s a good defender. Kawhi Leonard an outstanding defender and an above average offensive player. 

– Blake Griffin can hide defensively with DeAndre Jordan guarding the paint. Same goes with LaMarcus Aldridge with Brook Lopez. Anthony Davis is a good offensive player. He’s a great pick and roll/pop player, great cutter, good shooter,  great rebounder,  great shot blocker, and capable post player. Anthony Davis is all and round better than all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 you should check out some advanced stats before labeling someone a good/bad defender, especially the defensive adjusted PM stats that isolate the players’ impact on that end. i think some of the results would surprise you.

[caray12Participant]

 I don’t like using advanced stats. I like watching players play and judge on based on how I see them play. Advanced stats don’t tell the whole story. 

[GBeeParticipant]

 no, but they can dispel what your eyes supposedly tell you. most variations of PM are created to isolate a player’s impact on the game and over a large sample size, like multiple seasons, they are very telling. 

take westbrook for example, who you labeled a "dynamic" defender. he really isn’t. he’s erratic. he gambles, is an emotional defender which clouds his decision making, ball watches, loses his man off the ball, is often out of position to recover to his man. he’s not a good defender, let alone a dynamic one and his advanced defensive stats back that up.

 

[GBeeParticipant]

 no, but they can dispel what your eyes supposedly tell you. most variations of PM are created to isolate a player’s impact on the game and over a large sample size, like multiple seasons, they are very telling. 

take westbrook for example, who you labeled a "dynamic" defender. he really isn’t. he’s erratic. he gambles, is an emotional defender which clouds his decision making, ball watches, loses his man off the ball, is often out of position to recover to his man. he’s not a good defender, let alone a dynamic one and his advanced defensive stats back that up.

 

[caray12Participant]

 I don’t like using advanced stats. I like watching players play and judge on based on how I see them play. Advanced stats don’t tell the whole story. 

[GBeeParticipant]

 you should check out some advanced stats before labeling someone a good/bad defender, especially the defensive adjusted PM stats that isolate the players’ impact on that end. i think some of the results would surprise you.

[chrispaulwallParticipant]

 Kawhi Leonard over Melo? Guarantee if he didn’t have that few good finals games he wouldn’t be on this list. Also, Luol Deng has really regressed, theres plenty of young SFs in the league who are more effective than him by now (Batum, Parsons, Hayward)

[chrispaulwallParticipant]

 Kawhi Leonard over Melo? Guarantee if he didn’t have that few good finals games he wouldn’t be on this list. Also, Luol Deng has really regressed, theres plenty of young SFs in the league who are more effective than him by now (Batum, Parsons, Hayward)

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