[OhCanada-Participant]

 This will be the thread I will bring up every once in a while to review the Boogie trade that everybody said the Pelicans robbed the Kings with. I dont usually do this but I didnt appreciate getting downvoted – 40 points when I initially said the Kings won the trade so I feel I have justifiable reason.

 Is it too early to critique the trade? No. They clearly want to make the playoffs and thats evident by sacraficing thier lottery pick in a very deep draft. The Bogdanovic, Ibaka/Tucker, Mcdermott/Gibson trades have settled worked and teams have adjusted. 

NOP Short Term-2017 Playoff Push

Since acquiring DMC the Pelicans are 2-6. One win against Detroit with Cousins suspended for too many techs and the other against the Lakers whos management is trying to lose games. The team has had the slowest pace in the league and is only scoring 96.75 ppg which makes thier opponents 101 ppg for a – 4.25 point differential look much worse. Thier 3-pt %, is below 30% and they are terribly ineffecient. 

When they made the trade they wwere 2 games back from a playoff spot, 11th in the West,  22nd in the league and the draft pick was 9th overall. They are now 4.5 games back 13th in the West, 25th in the league and the pick is 6th overall. 

Last night Davis left the game with a wrist injury. He is day to day and expected to miss a few games. This injury was not a fluke injury. He has had the exact same injury to the same wrist on the same type of play in the past. He was attacking the rim on alley oop when 6’3 200 Norman Powell threw him to the ground probally thinking "get that weak sh! t outta here!". Yes he was injured by a gaurd almost a foot shorter than him on a play to the rim. Soft and predictable. Davis has never played more than 68 games in a season. Cousins isnt quite durable either though. His conditioning is not great and Demarcus hasnt played more than 65 games in his last 3 seasons but will hopefully pass that this year. 

The next three games are important ones all coming against below .500 teams which would have given the team a chance to gain some traction before getting back into a tough part of thier schedule. It seems as if Davis will be reexamined but should miss a couple of games at the very least. 

NOP Longterm- Cap Issues

Jrue Holiday is a free agent this offseason. They will have $15-Mil to spend without resigning him and will likely be in a deficit if they do resign him. They will likely resign him as $15-Mil will not gaurantee they get a better player in the open market. They have no tradabke pieces having invested a third of thier salary in Hill, Asik and Moore in the next three seasons. They can only improve by developing internally and finding gem free agents like Yogi Ferell for Dallas or Ron Baker for New York. 

NOP Overall

Davis needs to add some grown man to his game and hit the gym badly. Cousins needs to grow up and learn how to be a professional. I view  both plays as immature Davis physically andCousinds mentally. It will take three more years for the thier salaries to clear a huge cap increase which is not projected for these guys to properly build around Cousins/Davis and that is if he decides to resign which is highly unlikely. Call me crazy but if I bought the Pelicans today I would literally sign Cousins to an extension and then do a firesale as soon as he signs. Gentry fired. Demps fired. Cousins traded. Davis traded. Keep the bad contracts let them expire while I tank and rebuild and get what I can for the twin-cowards. 

Sacramento Kings

For the Kings its too early to tell how much value they got back but the most important part of this trade is actually that they got rid of Cousins. Addition by subtraction and they didnt even have to give anything up for another team to take him. Thats a joke and bit extreme but you get the point, the organization is alot happier and the Kings spirit seems to be back to the way I remember it and stronger with him gone. 

They currently have the 6th and 7th picks in the 2017 draft which was not the case before the trade. Coach Joeger has full control of the team and is developing his guys strictly having benched Hield and Skal at times for poor effort defensively. This couldnt happen with Cousins there. Offensively Hield is finding his rhythm although he has been turnover prone he is starting to look like the Sooners Buddy. WCS has had his moments but from what Ive seen he kinda has a similar approach mentaly as DMC as his postgame interviews lacked maturity and his game lacks discipline. Next year will be a full on tankfest and they will be on a mission to draft Porter or Ayton to complete the rebuild. After 7 years of suffering with DMC with no playoff appearances they have a chance to complete a rebuild in only two years since they dont have a 2019 draft pick that will likely be the goal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 And no they couldnt have gotten more value in return. Teams have learned and adjusted. Look at the last few superstar trades. Cleveland gets Love for Wiggins and Kevin is always injured and was non existent in last years Championship push. The Nets got screwed twice trading for Deron Williams and then for the Boston package. The Melo trade is looking worse and worse everyday as New York has done everything to accommodate him resulting in losses. 

Ill probally still have everybody disagree with me thats not likely to change even if the Pelicans pick ends up being 1st oberall and DMC demands a trade. 

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 While the pelicans would have preferred to be winning now and making the playoffs, it sometimes takes a while to integrate new pieces (think Detroit after they traded for Reggie Jackson – lost 10 games in a row or something). 

The pelicans move for Cousins was definitely future focussed, even if it meant sacrificing the present possibility of a post season appearance while the two develop chemistry. Let’s see what they’re like next season before we judge them too harshly. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Detroit is still losing and they usually win the games that Ish Smith thrives and Jackson takes a backseat. 

How far in the future? Really. Im just trying to figure this out. Once again one third of thier salary is locked up for the next 3 years by Asik a guy who is a D-League level player, Moore a second/third string gaurd and Hill a rotation player. So when you say this trade was future focused what is going to change in the future? They have no way to adjust the roster. It is what it is for 3 years. 

 

 

[ChoppyParticipant]

 I was referring more to last season, the first full season after trading for Jackson. The end of the season after the trade was all about developing chemistry. The next season (last season) the benefits of that chemistry could be seen in how they made the playoffs. 

This seasons issues have been more to do with the lingering effects of Jackson’s early season knee treatment. 

[Anton123Participant]

I mean, it was the Kings’ management who said that they had better offers, no one is making this stuff up.

All you’re saying in this thread is: "the trade is bad for NOP because I think both Cousins and Davis are trash". 

[surveParticipant]

 I am not 100% sure but I think you may be taking it out of context when they said they had better offers.  They certainly did, but this was BEFORE DMC agent started telling teams not to trade for him because he would not re-sign with them.  I heard Vlade said they had better offer and probably wont get as much now….never heard his say he turned down the offer.

I heard about the Lakers package of young players but I know the one offer that was definitely pulled because of his agent was Drummond.  Detroit was all in on that until the agent told them DMC wouldnt sign.

for the record, I thought this was a good deal for both teams.

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

They arent trash by any means but they cant be relied on to do it alone. Davis has mafe huge strides with his leadership but hes soft and frail. Cousins should never be relied on to lead a teams. They need a better supporting cast thats the main issue. 

In terms of stats sure the Pelicans won. They got one of the best stat stuffers in the league. 

 

 

[publius2481Participant]

While I still think long term this trade works for NO, I will admit it looks better for SAC than it did at the deadline. First, Hield has shown some good progress. He has a 64.2 EFG% since the trade. He also seems to have developed a nice chemistry with Skal. Second, trading Cousins has opened up minutes for Labissiere who has played well since the trade. Third NO has not done as well as many of us thought he would since the trade. Many (including myself) thought this pick would in the 12-16 range. Now, it looks like it will fall into the 4-9 range, so it is a better asset than we first thought. Finally, trading Cousins has caused the SAC’s record to drop, They should now have a pick in the 5-7 range, provided Philly does not get hot (man, was that a bad trade, giving up swap rights and a first for cap space to sign Rondo). 

Now, I still doubt the Kings win the trade. Hield is likely a role player and even if they hit on both picks (which is a BIG if, drafting is not an exact science), they are likely just nice role players. Some things have gone right for them since the trade, but unless they luck out and Hield or their picks turns into a star, they cannot win this trade.

 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I agree with you, Oh Canada, I saw it too. I was not one of those that negged you. The Kings needed that new culture. The Boogie trade brought about that culture. The good thing is while Cousins was still in Sacramento, the Kings made the draft decision they did to prep for this. Drafting Willie Caulie Stein helps down low. They dont have everything Cousins brought, but they can get there with this draft. WCS brings that intensity that Cousins had but he doesnt have the attitude that Cousins had. For those doubters, you may think attitude doesn’t matter but in the locker room it does matter. Now the Kings need some 3 pt shooters and more defenders. I think they are a SF a way from being contenders. Which is why one of their lottery picks needs to be Jayson Tatum. (I’m thinking the pick from the Pelicans) For the Bulls pick they need more defense, more intensity, more potential minus the attidude. I think Robert Williams might be that guy. Yes, the Kings need a PG, but I think they can live with Darren Collison for now, and maybe he is the answer. I do like Koufus but I think he’d be much better if he comes off the bench to back up WCS in the long term. Collison may not be the answer, and management may see that so that is why Williams is one my choices but another good pick would be a PG like Dennis Smith, Frank Ntilikina, or De’Aaron Fox if the management more sees Collison as a backup PG in the long term.

The Kings won the Boogie trade, but it wasn’t in the way everyone expected. 

The Pelicans can get better but it will take more time, than the Kings will need. 

I may have had my doubts about the Boogie trade in the back of my mind at first, but I watched a game against the Jazz and Kings, and the way the Kings played throughout that game convinced me that they are close. Yes the Kings lost, but that’s only because they didn’t really have a closer. Maybe they can get a closer now, but I think they already have that closer in Buddy Hield. He’s not there yet, but with more development he can get there.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 6th and 7th picks plus Buddy Hield looks a bit better on paper than the trade originally was. I still feel that Kings could have got better deals but if say Boston didn’t fancy DMC then the takers  may have been limited.

Ironically people always say that Memphis were stuffed by the Lakers with the Pau Gasol trade but Memphis ended up with Marc Gasol a 3 time All Star and All NBA player out of it.

The Kings with 6th and 7th picks is interesting, last year they dealt Marquese Chriss for a couple of picks and the rights to a player. They have 4 rookies on their roster this year and with a couple more picks this year will have a very young roster next season.

I couldn’t see any logic in them trading one of the pickd down again, they are in rebuild so would be unlikely to flip a pick for a proven player. Packaging 6 and 7 to move up would be unlikely as a team doesn’t usually trade down from top 3. Boston I’d doubt would do it, Lakers aren’t going to pass on a top player, Philly might have two picks and as many rookies as Kings also. So I figure they draft with both picks if they get them.

Certainly one of the PGs with one pick would seem logical and with the other maybe target a SF or PF perhaps or it could be BPA even.

 

 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I’m in No way criticizing the Pelicans either. I like the boldness of the trade for New Orleans b/c they were truly Stuck in that No Man’s Land where many teams find themselves when they have One Star but are neither Bad enough to land a High Lotteyr pick or Good enough to Grow.

The Pelicans can take a Risk on Stud in Boogie Cousins & explore what playing side by side w/ Super Star Unibrow Davis while simultaneously protecting their flank by making the pick Top 3 proetcted & only committing to Cousins for 15 months contractually if the situation turns into a Nightmare

But from the Kings POV, Cousins had run his course. W/ their 2019 1st round Pick already Gone (to Phila) & their 2017 looking like it was going to the Bulls.

The Kings essentially picked up 3 Lottery picks for Boogie: Buddy Hield (2016) plus they will now have the Pelicans 2017 Lottery pick (top 3 protected) & the Sixers 2017 Lottery pick (Pick swap Kings get the lower of Both team’s Lottery picks).

Imagine if the Pelicans finish w/ the #6 Lottery pick & the way the season is shaping up I can DEF see Sacramento & Philadelphia passing Orlando & Phoenix for the 3rd & 4th worst records. What if the Nets get the #1 pick but then the Kings jump the Lakers for the #2 pick & Phila jumps in to the #3 slot.

The Kings would then get the #3 & #6 picks in what looks like a Crazy deep 2017 Draft Lottery. 

So w/ Buddy Hield cemented in as the Kings 2/SG guard let’s say they Draft Josh Jackson & Dennis Smith Jr w/ the 3rd & 6th picks or some other combination impressive young players. Suddenly Hield looks that much better b/c Jackson & Smith Jr are Freak athletes who can break down opposing defenders off the dribble & Both men are Willing passers who luv to kick out to open 3point shooter. It would be Heaven for Buddy Hield.

Like I said this is not a criticism of the Pelicans – I lik ethe trade for both teams b/c New Orleans did not give up much for a Super Star in Boogie. But suddenly the trade looks a Lot smarter from the Kings POV is you plug in Buddy Hield, Josh Jackson & Dennis Smith Jr – instantly Sacramento becomes an Exciting young team that I want to watch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wuzolengzaoParticipant]

In terms of stats sure the Pelicans won. They got one of the best stat stuffers in the league.

[CynthiaParticipant]

Let me bring you back to reality. Both teams sucked before the trade, and both teams still suck after. It will take a while before we truly know if it helped either team, possibly multiple seasons, so there’s not much sense in bickering about it now.

Yes on paper it was one of the most lopsided trades ever, but we all knew the true caveat would be if DMC could mesh. Due to DMC being such a wildcard it’s really up in the air. It’s time this manchild grows up for a change, he has a chance to be apart of something special. But will he do that? Probably not.

[earldaniel31Participant]

Sacramento is in a better spot than New Orleans.. they have cap space & multiple picks. Bogdan Bogdanovic is coming over next season; plus Vlade might be able to convince Milos Teodosic to sign w/ them.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Bump. Kings won the trade.

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