This topic contains 16 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Hale 12 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #36349
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    JMIKE is a Grizz fan
    Participant

    Is paul pierce underated? i mean passing larry bird to 2nd on the scoring list in that celtics franchise is pretty good.

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  • #633594
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    Hale
    Participant

     No. He’s never been a top 5 player in the NBA and has maybe been a top ten guy for like 2-3 years tops. He’s been overrated for about the last 8 years.

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  • #633595
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Hell no. If anything he is overrated. Everything Y2G said was true.

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  • #633597
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    larryfisken
    Participant

    http://youtu.be/ysT8RA6JQks I think he is good, but he is not among the all time greats for the league as a whole and that separates Bird from Paul

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  • #633598
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    Tongue-Out-Like-23
    Participant

    321-395

    Those numbers indicate why I believe he’s not an all-time great.

    That’s his record before the Boston Big 3 was put together.  Along with only 14 career playoff wins before the Big 3.

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  • #633601
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Almost his whole career he has had another 20 point scorer on his team. Lets look at the years he did not have another 20 ppg guy with him.

    2003-04: 36-46

    2004-05: 45-37

    2005-06: 33-49

    2006-07: 24-58 (He only played 49 games this year so he kind of gets a pass here, but the record when he played still sucked)

    Total without another 20ppg guy or the big 3: 138-181

    Then after that he got the big 3.

    He was never a guy who could lead a team by himself and it looked like he quit on the team during that 06-07 season. He was a fine player, but not the star people seem to think he was. Plus we have him constantly complaining to the refs, dying during the 08 finals only to be revived 3 minutes later, and always flopping. Sorry for the rant, as you can see I am not a Pierce fan.

     

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  • #633609
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    Meditated States
    Participant

    1st ballot hall a famer. Goes one on one against Kobe,Lebron anyone. Ask his peers to get an accurate rating on PP. Kobe will tell you Lebron too. Been one of the toughest guys for them to deal with their whole careers. Hate on y’all.

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  • #633613
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    mcbailey
    Participant

     Unfortunately, Paul Pierce being a douche doesn’t make him overrated.

     

    It does, however, depend on how he is actually rated. I don’t think he’s a first ballot hall of famer (there are plenty of NON hall of famers who were tough defenders, scout), but I think he gets in eventually. But if people are saying he’s better than Bird, Russell, or Havlicek because he’s second on their scoring list, then he’s the most overrated player on the damn planet.

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  • #633641
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    scbe2223
    Participant

     Pierce is a very good, almost great player in my eyes. Sure he flops around a lot, and goes for the dramatic far too often (Wheelchair drama) but he’s pretty damn good. Overrated? Only slightly if any

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  • #633675
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    Ollstar
    Participant

    I think Pierce is a less athletic Kobe, he hits clutch shots posts smaller players. He doesn’t have the work ethic and probably not the IQ, but if you looks at their games there are similarities.

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  • #633731
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    Mkadoza
    Participant

     What makes you think Paul Pierce doesnt have the work ethic or IQ of Kobe? I just do think Pierce was blessed with the elite athleticism of Kobe. But this guy is a superb ball handler, passer, finisher, and as clutch as shooter as the nBA has seen in the past 10 years. 

    And by "Another 20 point scorer", you mean Antoine Walker right? Antoine "No conditioning, stupid crossovers, no defense, never met a three he didnt like" Walker right?

    Where did Hondo go by himself? Bird? Even Russell? These guys won with HALL OF FAMERS! Its like the difference between McKale and Tom Chambers. Its the difference between James Worthy and Mashburn.

    This is a team game, an no one player can take a team of scrubs anywhere. Period. So we need to stop making that a reasonable expectation. Garnett couldnt take anyone anywhere in Minny. Do we deny he’s a first ballet hall of famer? Its conversations like this that make me feel hes underrated. All he does is give you great scoring efficiently, rebounds his position extremely well, can initiate offense off the dribble or running plays and plays effective defense despite not being a dominant athlete.

    Now I wont suggest that hes as good as Bird. Thats stupid. But I will suggest that Hondo is an excellent comparison for Pierce.

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  • #633734
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    FastAndFurious
    Participant

     I agree while Pierce does have some good accolades, he was NEVER a top 5 player, usually people with his numbers and achievements are top 3-5 at some point in their career Pierce could never make that next step.

    Great career will be a HOF, but underrated? Nope

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  • #633753
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    surve
    Participant

     It depends on how you rate him.

    I do not believe he is in the top 5 Celtics of All Time, but I definitely feel he is top 10.  I believe he is no-doubt a 1st ballot HOFer, he simply has accomplished too much and has a championship to boot.

    Yeah, he didnt win til the big 3 was formed but man, nobody wins without another great player or several very good players, I dont remember him having that in Boston….the best players (in their prime) he played with prior to the Big 3 were Kenny Anderson and Antoine Walker and they got to the conference finals.  

    I think he has been rated fairly through out his career, but this season I feel he may be a little underated, he is kind of defying age like Kobe…putting up over 18ppg and nearly 6rpg and nearly 6apg.

    I agree with Ollstar in the fact that there are similarities to him and Kobe, and I think he has just as high an IQ, the difference is, Pierce has never been an elite athlete but his scoring IQ is very high.  A 22ppg career avg is very good for a 13 year career.

    As for him not being able to lead a team by himself, no, he wasnt, but I am not so sure that Pippen or Drexler could either and they were better players than Pierce.  The numbers game is not always clearcut….if just saying he didnt do much without another 20ppg scorer beside him cheapens the perception of the level of play in the league.  There have been plenty of players who avg over 20ppg and didnt have any help and didnt win but were still considered great.  Hell, even MJ had an avg of over 30ppg his 1st 3 years in the league but had losing seasons each year until he started to get some talent around him like Pip and Grant.  Rondo is never going to be a 20ppg scorer but he is one of the best players Pierce has ever played with….and he never had a great PG like Rondo early in his career.

    So once again, it depends on how you rate him.  I see him as an all time great due to his durability, consistency, and longevity.  To be the 2nd leading scorer in Celtics history is quite an accomplishment, being it is the most successful franchise in league history.   I think the top 50 players all time are guys that could make a difference on a team even without much help…..he falls outside of that, he is maybe in the top 75-100, along with guys like Dumars, Bernard King, Chris Webber, etc…

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  • #633773
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    Truett
    Participant

     Anyone who makes the argument that Paul Pierce is better than Larry Bird because he has scored more points in his career is not really getting it(if you believe that then you have to believe that robert parish is better than bird because he has scored more points as well). That said, if you are calling him a overrated in reaction to the above mentioned statement you may suffer from a diminished mental capacity. People can say he is overrated for other reasons if they want(flopping), but personally I think he is rated about where he should be. He has been a top 5 small forward for most of his career (prob in the 5-10 range now). Even Larry Bird said in an interview that Pierce was better at getting to the line than he was during his career so even Bird recognizes his talent and accepts his position as one of the many Celtic greats.

    One thing he has been better at, which he has not been given credit for is staying healthy and being consistent. Believe it or not, both Bird and Pierce had the opportunity to play in close to the same amount of games (Bird played 13 seasons, this is pierce’s 14th but the 1998 lockout shortened his rookie year). In that time Pierce has played almost a full season worth of games more than Bird. This fact is why he surpassed Bird on the Celtics all time scoring list even though Bird was a better scorer, rebounder, etc. 

    Passing Bird means only one thing; Paul Pierce has had a great and lucky NBA Career so far. Quit trying to make comparisons to player X or Y or pre-emptively freaking out that some moron who never saw Bird play might tarnish Bird’s legacy by equating the two…

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  • #633807
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    Gronounours
    Participant

    Comparing W and L before the Big Three doesn’t make much sense. What about Garnett before he joined the Celtics? He was a looser, right? And then suddenly, because at last he got good teammates, he became a great player? What kind of reasoning is that?

    Nobody thinks Pierce is Jordan or LeBron, but he is a very, very good player.

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  • #633808
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    JoeWolf1

     He has an incredibly solid resume, he’s been playing at a high level ever since he came into the league.  You guys are right, he was never a top 5 player in the league, but he’ll pass 22,000 points this season and despite never winning a lot of individual accolades he has a Finals MVP award, which is only given to one player every year, and that player always has a ring.  That’s a game changer on anyone’s HOF resume.

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  • #633823
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    Hale
    Participant

    Garnett made the playoffs 8 times before he went to Boston and was roughly 50 games above .500 there. It’s not like Pierce all of a sudden became amazing when Boston got the Big 3, he was the same except he wasn’t the best player on the team anymore, Garnett was. He just got more credit.

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