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Overrated All-Time Greats

IndianaBasketball
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Overrated All-Time Greats

It's hard to call a Hall of Fame player overrated, but what players do you think, despite being great, seem to just get hyped up a little too much?

My player is Oscar Robertson. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the top ten or top 15, but I just think he's overrated. I've seen him listed in the top five.

I understand he put up ridiculous numbers and basically averaged a triple double his first four years in the NBA, but I was looking at his team's records and saw that his team missed the playoffs three consecutive seasons (1967/1968 - 1969/1970). Looking at his teams' records (before Milwaukee), his teams were never really THAT great. There were a lot of first round exits. Before he played for Milwaukee, his teams only made it past the first round twice. Missed the playoffs four times... Four first round exits.

Robertson's teams never really went anywhere, until he played for Milwaukee, but he wasn't even the best player on that team. The year they won the title in 1970-1971, that was Kareem Abdul-Jabar's, who was averaging 32 and 16, team.

Once again... Not saying he isn't great, but just think he's somewhat overrated in people's minds just because of the triple double talk. I view him as an old school version of LeBron James. Not the Miami version LeBron of the last two seasons, but of the Cleveland LeBron.

Who's your overrated all-time great?


Toronto16
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Sir, I just don't understand

Sir, I just don't understand how a man averages a triple double and can be over rated.

bouncem24949
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people say WILT is overrated

So if people can make the argument that WILT is overrated they can surely make an argument that says Oscar is overrated. And i will stand behind this Oscar being slightly over rated. He was never the best player on a NBA championship team therefor I can not put him in the top 10 players of all time. Yes he did average a triple double, big deal he played around the same time as Wilt, Wilt scored 100 averaged 50 and 25, led the league in assists one year not to mention he did pull down 55 rebounds one game.

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Bill Walton - Bill was a

Bill Walton - Bill was a dominant NCAA player, NBA champion and elite player in his early years. Injuries destroyed his high level play, but he was still able to reinvent himself as a key part of some very good Celtics teams. It's not that Walton wasn't a great player, but that his level of dominance was cut short.

jjbutler73
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People should stop rating players based on team success

Or Robert Horry is the greatest power forward ever and Randy Brown is a top 5 point guard.

canesboy6
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Controversial

This subject is always gonna get negs. They are all time greats for a reason.

The one guy that comes up to me has got to be Bill Russell. Not because he wasn't a great winner or player, but his 11 titles get brought up all the time. The reality is, the league wasn't nearly as competitive then as it is now. So you have to take numbers like that with an enourmous grain of salt because they didn't have the measures in place to keep teams fair at the time.

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Magic Johnson made a lot of

Magic Johnson made a lot of people look good, and that's all I'm going to say

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Yikes, as much as it hurts to

Yikes, as much as it hurts to say, canesboy6 has a point. But I'm from the school of thought that you can't blame a guy for the era he played in.

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can't have it both ways

Neither Robertson nor Russell is overrated....Robertson's lack of rings was due a lot to the dominance of Russell's Celtics as were a lot of great players of that era

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Fun

1. Karl Malone. Many people have him pegged as the best PF of all-time which is just not the case. He played in a system designed by a great coach that was tailored to his strengths. And defense? Great player, but not the best PF ever. I would take Duncan, KG, Barkely, and McHale ahead of him.

2. Bill Laimbeer. If he wasn't on the loaded Detroit team that won two Championships people wouldn't talk about him as much. Again, great player, but overrated. Big jerk too so he's higher on my list.

3. Kobe Bryant. Ouch. Extremely hard worker, 5 titles, solid defender (early in career) and fierce competitor but, yes, a chucker. Efficiency is not his game. I still rank him the 2nd best shooting guard ever and a Top 15 player. However, because of that inefficiency and team records when not surrounded by talent and top big men, he is overrated.

4. John Stockton. Also on my list for the same reason as Malone. Would he have put those numbers up in the same system? Give me Kidd, Payton, Rose, Paul, Westbrook, thomas, magic, nash, and others in a matchup with Stockton any day. Stats lie.

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Oscar Robertson?

Over-rated? Was Oscar R. over-rated when he helped the Lakers to a 66-16 record? Was he over-rated recording triple doubles for an entire season as a shooting guard when nobody else knew what it was? He won olympic gold. He shaped basketball freeagency in a landmark court case. He was the Jackie Robinson of basketball standing up for rights. What else did you expect out him?

It is crazy to call a player over-rated that help shape modern day basketball the same way Jackie Robinson/Ruth/Cobb/Gehrig etc. did for baseball.

dcase
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Helped the Lakers?

Helped the Lakers?

IndianaBasketball
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You meant the Bucks, not the

You meant the Bucks, not the Lakers. And Kareem Abdul-Jabar was averaging 32-16 rebounds on that squad.

And dude... Get out of here bringing up African American rights, etc. You know good and damn well nothing I posted had anything to do with that. Robertson is from Indianapolis, IN and I'm WELL AWARE of that issue. Would never ever devalue that, especially considering I'm black.

dcase
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The Big O

The Big O being overrated has to be the worst comment posted on this site. Are you serious? The only reason he didn't advance further in the playoffs while playing for Cincinnati is his surrounding cast and the fact he had to constantly go up against the Celtics. Look at his stats for his first 9 or 10 years in the league. They are better than LeBrons. ~10 rebounds a game in many seasons for a point guard is unheard of. Lets also not forget he is a 3-time college player of the year and made 2 Final Fours. It can be argued that he is the greatest player to ever play.

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Look at average shots per

Look at average shots per game from back then, far easier to rack up assists, rebounds and points when each team is taking 10% to 20% more shots per game

dcase
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Partially true

Although there were more possessions per game back then, being credited for an assist was more difficult. It wasn't like it is nowadays where you get an assist by passing it to a guy that does a shot fake, 3 jab steps, drives to the basket (often taking more than two steps) and scores. Additionally, players back then got their points strictly off 2 pt fgs and fts....as there were no threes. Just imagine how many more points Jerry West would have scored if there were 3pt fgs.

You also have to rememeber that the players back in the 50s, 60s and 70s were performing at an extremely high level despite horrible travel/lodging condiitons and poor scheduling (i.e. playing three straight days). Players in todays NBA complain about having to to back-to-back games.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9278137/bob-cousy-elgin-baylor-walt-...

bouncem24949
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ok fine

so then all time greatest players alive where do you put the BIG O

For_Never_Ever
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David Robinson, I thought was

David Robinson, I thought was pretty overrated.

BenchWarmer
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Robinson was professional by

Robinson was professional by every meaning of the word, with had an unparralled work ethic. To me he was hardest working and humble bigman to ever play, not to memtion he had VERY few holes in his game. Oh and you managed to choose a player that had 70+ points in a game and logged a quadrouple double in the Modern era, so congrats.

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Pistol Pete Maravich He was

Pistol Pete Maravich
He was really a glorified, style-over-substance chucker and crappy defender who never won anything, only making it out of the 1st round of the playoffs one time as a token player.

BenchWarmer
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Gotta admit was cool as hell

Gotta admit was cool as hell tho. ;)

bouncem24949
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i love pistol pete

i just love the showman and everything goin on with him. But yes hes terribly over rated if your talking about real basketball, volume scorer, turnover machine, bad defender, couldnt even lead his teams to playoff appearances. Kind of a selfish type of player who would get those selfish type of Maurbury assists. Had tremendous skills but could never put anything together mentally unless, if his dad didnt coach him in college. You really have to think his numbers would have gone down a significant amount.

Siggy
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My understanding is that his

My understanding is that his dad was responsible for reinforcing a lot of his bad habits. He encouraged and coached his son to put up near 40 shots a game. Maybe he would've been a better team player and would've enjoyed more team success if his father didn't coach him

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The problem with this topic

The problem with this topic is that it's so subjective and in some cases relative. Someone could say that Michael Jordan is overrated and technically be right because he's likened to some basketball cyborg god from the future that is fifteen times as good as everyone who has ever played or will ever play the game. I think most people would agree that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, but one stray comment can make someone overrated in even the slightest sense.

antoniom229
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smh

MJ is nowhere near being overrated.

Meditated States
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Reggie

Miller is a hall a famer. Look at the rest of his career stats. Look at all the literally 0 he did besides shoot. Tim Hardaway was better at basketball than him IMO. Oh yeah Mitch Richmond too.

fcb206
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Kareem. Never the best player

Kareem. Never the best player on a title team. Despite gaudy numbers, he was second fiddle to Jerry West and then Magic as a leader. and his crazy career numbers have a lot to do with playing 20+ years. And he was 7'2" in an era where other than Wilt and Walton, teams still had 6'7" centers.

Siggy
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Kareem didn't play with Jerry

Kareem didn't play with Jerry West.
Nice try though.

fcb206
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yeah I forgot west and wilt

yeah I forgot west and wilt played together not west and kareem. Bring negs.

bouncem24949
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smmmmm

how do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic

bouncem24949
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smmmmm

how do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic

IndianaBasketball
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Kareem was better than Oscar

Kareem was better than Oscar Robertson on the 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks title team.

He averaged 32 (led league in scoring), 16 and 3.3 during the regular season. He also led the NBA in win shares that season at 22.3.

During the playoffs, he put up 27, 17 and 2.5 and outplayed Wilt Chamberlain in the 2nd round.

aztwulf
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Oscar

Oscar was at the end of his career at that point in time. Not to take anything away from Kareem, who was terrific, but Oscar in the early to mid 60's was one of the three best players in the NBA year in and year out.

antoniom229
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WTF?

Are you stupid? I guess you are because Kareem is the all time scoring leader. He never played with Jerry West. Jerry had retired before Kareem went to LA. Kareem was a scoring juggernaut until the 80s. He still was productive and that is why he is the all time scoring leader. There were alot of tall centers playing in the 70s and 80s. You are dumb!

For_Never_Ever
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Every player that is

Every player that is mentioned here have great stats for the most part. This is thread is Controversial and Subjective. So if you have any problems with that, be out.

IndianaBasketball
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@Dcase "...has to be the

@Dcase

"...has to be the worst comment posted on this site."

You've not read enough on this site then lol.

Welcome to posting though. I'm happy this thread made you make a post, instead of just reading.

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Yeah, worst comment posted on

Yeah, worst comment posted on this site might have been a bit of a stretch. I have read some really bad posts over the past couple of years. Your post calling Oscar overrated just got me riled up. In many ways I think he is underrated. Many people tend to rank him in the bottom half or out of the top ten of all time. That just blows my mind. It is as if basketball didn't exist before Jordan. In my opinion there are a handfull of guys that can be considered the greatest of all time and Oscar is one of them.

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Worst comment?

He's obviously never read a thread started by Euroballer...

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Original Poster should've

Original Poster should've increased the scope of his question as there are many aspects to greatness.

Memphis Madness
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Big O is top 15 in my book.

Big O is top 15 in my book. Not top 5 though. Walt Bellamy averaged 30 and 20 in Oscar's Triple Double season along with Wilt getting 50 a night. Might have been a "juiced season".

You might put Oscar behind guys like Kobe, Shaq, and Larry Bird.

The other guy, Kareem had a strange career. He battled an older Wilt early on then guys like Ewing and Hakeem late
in Kareem's career but for the rest of the years the centers weren't that great. Bill Walton was good but hurt and Moses Malone
was 6'10. He's hard to place. Is he up there with Wilt or down a bit lower with Tim Duncan? You could make a case for him as second best
ever, or somewhere closer to six or seven.

For me, the hardest guys to rate are the guys before Russell. Guys like George Mikan, Bob Pettit, , and even Bob Cousy. All probably top 30 or so but they are harder to peg. Like who was better, Cousy or Stockton? Cousy had the assists AND the rings but he played in an earlier era.

Ang Puti Lalaki
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Malone

Moses malone I only saw him when he was old slow and fat. Not when he was winning titles in Utah.
Kobe soon the alltime great for missed shots.
Royce white at least the voices in his head think he is the alltome greatest.
Adrian dantley didnt even want to say the word defense.

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I think most of the guys in

I think most of the guys in the HOF are fairly justified and hyped appropriately. To me it's the guys that never made it that get perhaps an unfair hype; the guys like Len Bias, Ben Wilson, Pee Wee and Earl 'The Goat" Manigault. I don't know about everyone else but I find it hard to have conversations about the guys that never could quite get there for whatever reasons.

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smh

Every player that is in the hall of fame were great players. Why should alot of people talk about guys that didn't make it most of the time? That is dumb and you know it!

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How about Reggie Miller? He

How about Reggie Miller? He really didn't bring that much to the table outside of scoring and I wouldn't say he was an elite scorer considering he averaged over 22 ppg twice in 18 years. He was 6'7 and averaged 3 rpg for his career and the same amount of assists. Pretty one dimensional imo.

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He's one of the greatest

He's one of the greatest shooters ever, haven't really seen anyone say anything different about him like he was an all time great scorer.

bouncem24949
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i like it

couldnt rebound, not a great passer, couldnt defend. total one dimensional, I think hes way too high on most of these top 100 nba lists I see. Took a team to the finals only to play poorly and get mopped by LA

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Oops my bad

Malone did play for Utah straight out of high school but was not on the team the year they won the championship.
Sometimes I remember stuff that happened befor I was born wrong.

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Patrick Ewing - Not even a

Patrick Ewing - Not even a top 5 all time center.

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I think everyone will agree

I think everyone will agree Ewing isn't a top 5 center. The consensus top 5 in no order are; Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, and Hakeem.

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Era discussion...might be the JD's

I can not blame the player for the era he played in. But you can blame the era for the position the player is placed in.
If you are telling me the league is not AMAZINGLY more athletically superior today, you're kidding yourself. It is hard for me to not think about the athletic superiority today in the NBA while talking about the best players in any category, whether it be greatest of all-time or best 6th men of all time. Clearly stats, and awards are more "tangible," but why would those accolades not be taken into proper context? Hey if you are going to argue that the 90's NBA was on average better teams and players so be it. But in order to justify a players greatness you have to take into consideration the talent around him and the GAME TO GAME talent he played against.

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Maybe you are saying he's

Maybe you are saying he's overrated becuz he has did everything so effortlessly,wasnt flashy,he didnt win a ring until he joined Kareem and the Bucks and watching him on film, he looks slow....

About 30 years ago,alot of experts said he was the best player of all time..I guess as time goes by,and we compare what he did to what players like Jordan,Magic,Bird,Shaq,Kobe,Duncan,Olajuwon and Lebron has done Robertson applishments become less appreciated...

But no way is he overrated,dude was a beast...Alot of players today use some moves he invented like the fade-away & head fake...Robertson is the only guard in nba history to average 10 rbs during a season..

1.11 time all nba performer
2.MVP
3.averaged a triple double for the first 5 yrs of his career
4.led the nba in assists 7 times
5.five time all star game Mvp

Ahead of his time ,Yes..Overrated NO

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