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Now What Do You Think of the Carmelo Anthony Trade?

rtbt
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Now What Do You Think of the Carmelo Anthony Trade?

I realize it's only been 16 games, but the Knicks are in disarray. I argued with many of you about the value of team chemistry, something the Knicks had big time before the trade. Many of you thought I was way off base, I wonder what you think now.

The Knicks had a collection of excellent young players who were just starting to come together, build confidence, plus they had excellent team balance. They believed they could beat any team in the NBA and were developing into one of the better teams in the East. I would even say they were beginning to have a bit of a swagger.

Some of you only judge teams on their record, I look at a lot more than just wins and losses. Do they play togther, do they exude confidence, are they unselfish, and most important of all, are they getting better. Prior to the trade, the Knicks were all of the above.

Since the trade they are only 7 and 9, but even worse than their record, is the way they're playing. Just as I predicted, Carmelo Anthony and Amare aren't a good combination. There's a reason Denver never became an elite team, Anthony is a great offensive player, but he isn't much of a team player. He's a black hole, the ball stops dead in it's tracks when he gets it. There are deficiencies in his game that you can see if you watch the Knicks every night. Believe me, he's an elite offensive talent, but not the guy that will put New York over the top.

Finally, I still believe NY gave up too much for Anthony.


Kayjay
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Look

I've been saying the Nuggets got a lot out of the trade, but because of expiring contracts people begged to differ. I think in the long run the Knicks will prove why they got the most out of the deal. Because I mean hell, your talking about the second best small forward in the league(Durant needs time). However, the nuggets took most of their starters, and brought them off the bench. Lol that is incredible. That means you get one starting line up going out, and another coming in after a time out. A long with that Lawson is proving he can lead a team which was the real worry in Denver. I think they both got good deals. Just the one that is panning out early, just happens to be the Nuggets.

Nuggets: Deep &$#%#&@! bench

Knicks: Melo

All in all I fear for the Knicks in the playoffs this year. Other than that, they should be fine in the long run.

nappy headed whitey
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Hard to tell

They have struggled, showing flashes then absolutely dissapointing. I watched the first game with Melo, they did not play well and still won, and i thought "ok if this team puts it together, they'll do some damage in the Playoffs". Then when they beat Miami, I thought this team is FOR REAL. Then I tried to watch them play Dallas and they got WAXED, and I look at their record since the trade and the fact they won one game by Tony Douglas playing out of his mind, I'm quite conflicted. Maybe their just a team that will show up for big games come Playoff time or maybe they just are not very good yet. April 17th......I'm just sayin.....

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I agree with you rtbt, but in

I agree with you rtbt, but in all fairness it is still much too early to tell who the trade will actually be beneficial to. Who knows what kind of players the Knicks are going to try to sign in the near future and it will also be interesting to see how many players the Nuggets get rid of by next season( J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin, possibly Felton) and who they sign as well. Who will be the face of the franchise for Denver how much longer will George Karl stick around????

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Right now, it seems to me

Right now, it seems to me most of the key players (Billups and Melo) does not fit D'Antoni's system. Melo is a half court player, that thrives in ISO while Billups is aging and doesn't have the stamina/speed to run an uptempo offense, he's also been better suited in half court set offense. Those are the issues I see right now for the Knicks, but it is fixable, they just need figure out how to fit the pieces together.

rtbt
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Da1Pot

You made a good point and I agree, it's far too early to make a final judgment. However, we can make assessments on what we've seen so far and I'm not encouraged. We can also talk about our analysis of the trade at that specific point in time.

What we do know is what kind of team the Knicks were building prior to the trade. I believe the trade was a mistake. Prior to the big move, I saw a very bright future for New York. I felt they were balanced, deep, and only one player away from becoming an elite team. Now I see holes at PG, Center, and the bench and wonder where and how they will be filled.

But even more importantly, there is no team chemistry, it's gone! I truly miss the chemistry and camaraderie of the team that New Yorkers were beginning to love.

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definatly agree they gave up

definatly agree they gave up too much.

if guys like felton or gallinari were still on the roster the chemistry would be better and they would play a better style for carmello.

joecheck88
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I think the same as when they

I think the same as when they made the trade. They got the 2 best players in the deal in Billups and Anthony. Chemistry was going to take time to get. This team is not built for greatness right now. They need the offseason to build around their team. They are a team that can scare a team in the first round as they tend to play up in games(and down against bad teams).

All in all, they did give up some good players but they got Melo. If Melo and Amare can figure out how to play with each other on the offensive end, there isn't a better inside outside combo. Also, if they play defense on 50% of possesions and get some players that play D all the time, they will be a 50 win team. This trade was made with the next 4 years in mind as well. They have 4 years to add and tweak their roster around Melo and Amare.

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but the new cba will prevent them from getting another star...

Since that was the plan, they get an F in execution...Melo and Amare will not equal championships, they needed Cp3 to even sniff that and they will not be getting him thanks to owners locking out the league in protest...

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Same

I think the same as before. The Knicks made the right move. I'm not saying it is or isn't going to work out in the future, but the Knicks made the smart move. Melo is too young and talented to pass up when it only costs you role players. I know there was a possibility of Melo coming over as a free agent, but I'm not sure the Knicks wanted to play that game, especially when Melo knew they could get a deal done now. Might have soured him on the Knicks if he did that. As for the actual trade the Knicks got an upgrade at pg (who also has a unique contract that may be useful in the near future) and an all star. The Nuggets got some good players back, but I wouldn't put much stock in any of them ever becoming all stars.

The Knicks weren't going to re-sign Chandler, Gallinari plays the same position as Melo so he's expendable, Mozgov is a long-term project and even though I like Felton he's not starting in Denver and he's not as good as Billups. You can say what you want about Denver's record without Melo, but they already had a lot of good players. I think shipping Melo out probably made some guys excited to know that they were going to get more opportunities on the offensive end. I'm looking at Kenyon Martin thinking, "Oh I didn't know he could still play." JR Smith is jumping up because he gets the ultimate green light. Lawson finally gets to start again. I see Nene and I realize the guy can do a lot more than what he has been enabled to do. Then you add guys that fit what they are already doing and add depth at every position. NY wasn't deep to begin with and they didn't make the move early enough in the year to be able to add quality depth around the guys they have now.

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defense

I think the team chemistry issue is overblown.

The real issue is defense. Neither Melo nor Amare are above average defenders. That's a big issue when matching up with other teams. Most of the stars on the Celtics, Heat, Magic and Bulls, play above average or elite defense.

Good teams just need talent, which is what the Knicks have. Great teams need defense... they won't be a contender unless they can deal with that issue.

The lake show2
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I dont see anything changing

I dont see anything changing much till one of two things happen

Either get a new defensive minded coach or Melo and Amare put as much effort into Defense ( and rebounding) every game as they do offense. There lead will cause the other players to pick up there D

Meditated States
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They will not be defensive players at this stage

I also agree Mike's system needs up tempo players. They would have been better served to get Lawson in that deal. Billups is better, but does not fit that system. Gave up too much.

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Too Early

I agree with most of the comments above. It's too early to make a declarative statement about the knicks. The deal was made for next year and really the year after that. Same time next year we'll have a firmer grasp of the true value of the deal.

Hopefully they will be able to put the right pieces in place.

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It is still too early but

It is still too early but Melo will have to do some soul searching because right now he is a big reason they are not playing well. Also they need to play for all 48 minutes. They are deep enough to do this. Hopefully they can get Earl Barron who played great for them because they are still getting killed by bigger teams.

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And look at the

And look at the Nuggets...

9-4 since they traded away Melo.

I would rather have team players than 1 "do it all by your lonesome" superstar.

The numbers back this up, too, although it still is early.

NYK2010
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Yet everyone was saying Mello

Yet everyone was saying Mello is worth anyone not named Amare. This is what happens when you panic and give the other team what they want great job Dolan.

Should've just went after Mello in the offseason, who were they bidding against esp. if he wanted to come to the Knicks.

Still the Knicks should be okay in the long run if they make smart moves. Forget Chris Paul go after a legit Center in free agency. Draft a PG and sign a veteran one, along with Toney Douglas they'll be okay at PG. They could go the other route keep Billups for next year, use there mid level exception on a Center like Dalembert. Sure beats the lack of production they get at Center right now. Also could use their expirings in Turiaf, Billups in trades.

Plenty of PG's in 2012

Deron Williams, Kirk Hinrich, Nelson, Felton, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd and 2 restricted PG's Bayless & Augustin.

The last 3 trades have really hurt the Knicks. 1st gave up Jordan Hill and a 2012 pick to clear cap room to be able to sign 2 max players. Then sign n trade David Lee, gives them Turiaf's contract, Anthony Randolph who they never played really and Azubuike who hasn't played. This deal was obviously the worse if Gallo keeps improving or Mozgov turns into a decent player big man. Chandler Maybe worst of all was trading Felton a young PG who was playing well in the offense.

Strange how the offense is blowing games now more than the defense.lsh said he regrets the Jordan Hill trade and I'm sure he'd take back the Turiaf deal.

NYK2010
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Yet everyone was saying Mello

Yet everyone was saying Mello is worth anyone not named Amare. This is what happens when you panic and give the other team what they want great job Dolan.

Should've just went after Mello in the offseason, who were they bidding against esp. if he wanted to come to the Knicks.

Still the Knicks should be okay in the long run if they make smart moves. Forget Chris Paul go after a legit Center in free agency. Draft a PG and sign a veteran one, along with Toney Douglas they'll be okay at PG. They could go the other route keep Billups for next year, use there mid level exception on a Center like Dalembert. Sure beats the lack of production they get at Center right now. Also could use their expirings in Turiaf, Billups in trades.

Plenty of PG's in 2012

Deron Williams, Kirk Hinrich, Nelson, Felton, Andre Miller, Jason Kidd and 2 restricted PG's Bayless & Augustin.

The last 3 trades have really hurt the Knicks. 1st gave up Jordan Hill and a 2012 pick to clear cap room to be able to sign 2 max players. Then sign n trade David Lee, gives them Turiaf's contract, Anthony Randolph who they never played really and Azubuike who hasn't played. This deal was obviously the worse if Gallo keeps improving or Mozgov turns into a decent player big man. Chandler Maybe worst of all was trading Felton a young PG who was playing well in the offense.

Strange how the offense is blowing games now more than the defense.lsh said he regrets the Jordan Hill trade and I'm sure he'd take back the Turiaf deal.

NYK2010
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If they don't improve next

If they don't improve next year trade Mello next summer for some young players.

I'd definately keep Amare over him since he's more unselfish and had more success in the playoffs.

rtbt
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Analyze The Situation

Analyze and consider the following.

  • Look at New York's team chemistry before and after the trade.
  • Look at New York's bench after the trade. It's horrible.
  • The Knicks are a disjointed, leaderless team.
  • Before the trade, the Knicks were better than the sum of their individual parts.
  • After the trade, NY is far worse than the sum of their individual parts.
  • Ask yourself if a half court player like Anthony fits into a D'Antoni run and gun team.
  • Do Amare and Anthony compliment each other?
  • Check out how much Denver has improved since the trade and ask yourself why.
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I still feel the same way

I still feel the same way about the trade...

For the short term, Nuggs win by a landslide IMO. They pretty much brought in a whole 2nd team of potential starters. They were probably going 2 lose Melo anyway so they got ultimate compensation for him. The Knicks gave up a TON for Melo, a hell lot more than i expected.

For the long term, its about a push IMO. I think NY feels that to win a championship nowaday you need to have that trio of superstars...ala Miami/Boston/LAL I guess they felt their current cast would never beat out a team like Miami and therefore they might as well go after another superstar even if it means trading the house. Now they have room to play with and can possibly bring in another big name to complete their trio. The Nuggs on the otherhand now have plenty of assets to consider trading, and if not, they have the deepest bench in the league. It was a great move for the Nuggs, and for NY, if they feel they can't win unless they have the Mighty Three, then I guess it was a good move for them too.

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The Knicks will be alright in

The Knicks will be alright in the years to come. They just need a good coach and an active GM in the off-season who can surround them with some talent.

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difficult

The Knicks were faced with difficult choices. Chandler's contract was up this summer, and Felton's and Galinari's were up next summer. While I loved the previous team, once they started paying all those players they would have been over the cap and locked into a team that would never be good enough to win a championship. So they took their chances with Melo, with an eye towards another year of cap flexibility.

The big loser will probably be Dantoni, whose system no longer fits the talent.

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The Knicks offering to Denver

The Knicks offering to Denver has been minimal in their contributions. Gallinari has played in 5 games because of injuries. Mozgov has played 40 minutes total. Raymond Felton is backing up Ty Lawson. Wilson Chandler has been playing like Wilson Chandler. He is not great, but he is the best small forward Denver has.

The true reason the Nuggets have played well is the guys left behind. The Melo trade did not provide a magical formula to keep Kenyon Martin in the lineup. When he is healthy, in the lineup, and able to play 30+ minutes, he is still a very good player. The trade has had nothing to do with being able to pair Nene and Martin in the lineup together for a month. They are a very good frontcourt duo. When both of them have been healthy and able to stay on the court, the Nuggets have always been good. They went to the 2009 Western Conference Finals when that happened. Those two are the big reason Denver has stayed competitive. The other reason is that Lawson and Smith have showed themselves to be capable of handling bigger roles than they had when Billups and Melo were there. Congrats, J.R. Smith is guaranteeing himself more money in his next contract.

Here is the reality, Nene, Martin, Chandler, Smith, and Afflalo are all free agents after the year. They aren’t all going to be back, and then all Denver has to show is a 42 percent shooter, a third string center, and a pick three years from now.

The Knicks have been bad, but they had been bad since late December. They took advantage of an easy schedule early on, and then came back to earth. Guess what, they are on the verge on another easy run of games. Take a look at the schedule after Wednesday night (Mil, @ Cha, Orl, NJ, Cle, Tor, @ Phi, @ NJ, @ Ind). I suspect the story is going to change by the time they close the regular season with Chicago and Boston to the Knick are finally coming together after the trade. It won’t matter when they face Boston or Miami in the first round, but that was always the fate of the 2011 Knicks. The only change is now they have Melo locked in for the next four years as opposed to thinking Danilo Gallinari was anything special and worrying about over paying Wilson Chandler. I'll take that every day of the week.

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Solid

Nice points BTPH. Denvers sucess is in many ways fools gold.

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I agree with BTPH. I think

I agree with BTPH. I think the Nuggets are playing good largely because of the guys who were there (Lawson, Afflalo, Smith, Nene and K Mart) seeing the ball more and being able to contribute, without having to worry aobut getting Carmelo is shots. I like all 3 ex Knicks in the deal, but i would be lieing to say that those 3 have provided the difference so far. The Knicks just stink, and always have stunk. Gutting there roster for another scorer that doesnt care about defense and an overrated washed up point guard wasnt going to change that.

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BTPH just made everyone

BTPH just made everyone else's comments irrellivant... Crazy how he's able to do that lol.

I agree with him 100%.

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Should have just waited

Should have just waited intell the offseason to get him?

The lake show2
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The new players help because

The new players help because the players they already have there can play at max level and when they go to the bench to rest there isn't a drop off from the second group. Its not just the stats that the new players are putting up its that non drop off when they sub in or when the old players sub in for the new players

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Sigh, this guy shows up again

Sigh, this guy shows up again I guess. Alright, I'll restate my point:

The Knicks didn't do this deal for this season. In fact, all Knicks people call it step 5 of 6 (The next step being Chris Paul for the 3 superstar plan, which I don't see it happening, but that's the idea) so the Knicks aren't done yet. The Knicks WILL be looking for a couple guys to go around Fields, Anthony and Stoudemire, so I'm not upset at all. Like I said, Mike D'Antoni will have to add another member to the rotation next season (making it 9 guys) and that opens up alot of people for New York to go look at.

The biggest thing people sleep on is the fact NYK got a buyout guy. You know what that means? These other guys will consider New York. They may not go to NY, but it is in the cards now. The Knicks will be better next year, I promise because the Knicks will have a 2011 1st round pick, in the teens most likely, and maybe some money, depending on Billups. Like I said, the Knicks can let Billups walk, or even pick up the option and move him. If I was New York, I would go and accept the option, and move him to Sacramento for a piece or pick, but that's just me.

Even back then, I said the Knicks have 4 of the 9 members they need for thier rotation. Fields, Melo and Stoudemire are the 3, Douglas, depending on his progression, can be the 4th. The Knicks will look for cheap players, like a Shawne Williams in free agency and in the NBDL, as well as use the Mid-Level to grab another piece for the frontline.

I'm not happy today about the Knicks, but it's been 20 games? I think next season will be the true measuring point.

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Knicks got the best 2 players

Knicks got the best 2 players out of the deal, a Top 5player in the league, a much better marketing package, and a much better oppurtunity to lure star players in. They won the deal, its extremely obvious that in todays NBA anything can happen. They have Melo locked up, they didnt have Chandler, and Felton locked up longterm (although felton probally wouldve stayed). Im pretty sure somebody wouldve paid Chandler out. Gallo is a good player but hes no Melo. Short term they are wounded, but when they heal watch out.

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Even now i would have still

Even now i would have still made the deal. i think its a win win for both teams in the long run

rtbt
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Think About The Following:

Analyze and consider the following.

  • Look at New York's team chemistry before and after the trade.
  • Look at New York's bench after the trade. It's horrible.
  • The Knicks are a disjointed, leaderless team.
  • Before the trade, the Knicks were better than the sum of their individual parts.
  • After the trade, NY is far worse than the sum of their individual parts.
  • Ask yourself if a half court player like Anthony fits into a D'Antoni system.
  • Do Amare and Anthony compliment each other?
  • Check out how much Denver has improved since the trade and ask yourself why.
BKKnicksfan
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Look at New York's team
  • Look at New York's team chemistry before and after the trade.

- They played 18 games together. We banking chemistry of 18 games?

  • Look at New York's bench after the trade. It's horrible.

- Agreed, but we knew that going in. PLUS, they gave up one player from thier bench in the deal...so we already had a bad bench

  • The Knicks are a disjointed, leaderless team.

- Disagree, but the point can be made. I said from day one: Stoudemire is the leader. I was impressed he stepped up and said something about Melo getting into gear recently. Stoudemire is our leader

  • Before the trade, the Knicks were better than the sum of their individual parts.

- Last time I checked, the Knicks were almost in the same spot as they were BEFORE the deal

  • After the trade, NY is far worse than the sum of their individual parts.

- Not really, Billups has gotten hurt alot and Melo isn't used to running this offense. Let us get a offseason to grow and develop

  • Ask yourself if a half court player like Anthony fits into a D'Antoni system.

- As of right now? No, but D'Antoni and Anthony will work on it in the OFFSEASON, you know, the thing they haven't had together yet?

  • Do Amare and Anthony compliment each other?

- Do Wade and James compliment each other? We can RUN down the list of players that don't compliment each other on the same team. FALL BACK on that one.

  • Check out how much Denver has improved since the trade and ask yourself why.

- Denver was a better them then NY before the trade...so you give a solid team depth....they can win games.

DID I MENTION THE KNICKS DIDN'T HAVE A OFFSEASON TO WORK OUT THE ISSUES?

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nuggets fan perspective

We live in Colorado and are big Nugget fans for the last 5 years. been to the Pepsi Center many times including a couple of years ago in the Playoffs for WC finals when we came 1 lost inbounds pass away from beating the Lakers and derailing their championship streak. melo has always been a great offensive player. Before billups came over the Nuggets were good. after billups we were very good. But even at our best we could never defend. If you can't defend you can't win in the playoffs. we also have one of the best home records in basketball and are not good on the road. I blame Melo primarily for both of these problems. His personality is such that he gets up when things are going well, and down when they are not, hence the great home record. He is getting booed in NY. It will only get worse. The big issue though is defense. When the superstar (who in Denver made more money than the whole team put together) won't play defense then nobody will. George Karl has been begging Carmelo to play defense forever and he just won't. It's just not in him. All you need to do is see the smile on Karl!s face when the Nuggets beat Boston and held them to under 90 points. The Carmelo Nuggets could never do that. Watch out in the playoffs. We have 9 very good players with fresh legs. Very dangerous.

rtbt
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Dolan and Walsh Are Ruining the Knicks

Analyze and consider the following.

  • Look at New York's team chemistry before and after the trade.
  • Look at New York's bench after the trade. It's horrible.
  • The Knicks are a disjointed, leaderless team.
  • Before the trade, the Knicks were better than the sum of their individual parts. They were a young team that was getting better every week.
  • After the trade, NY is far worse than the sum of their individual parts.
  • Ask yourself if a half court player like Anthony fits into a D'Antoni system.
  • Do Amare and Anthony compliment each other? Of course not, they're both black holes which means the ball stops when it hits their hands. You can have one black hole on a team but not two.
  • Check out how much Denver has improved since the trade and ask yourself why. Instead of NY, Denver is now the team with great potential and a bright future.
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I swear I answered all those

I swear I answered all those questions in my above post. Even when the trade was completed, many considered it step 2 of 3.

FALL BACK

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i still agree with making the

i still agree with making the trade becasue my brain looking at the players involved simply tells me this was a solid move for NY long term regardless if the results on the court say otherwise.

But i cant help, even in this short time frame of games, but view melo a little differently after this trade. I mean there are people on here who earlier said melo is hands down a top 10 player in the nba. I suppose i can see how the knicks might struggle due to chemistry issues that are out of melo's control. But how to explain the nuggets actually improving when they added role players to replace their 2 best guys including a top 10 player is baffling.

rtbt
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llperez

LLperez asked, " But how to explain the nuggets actually improving when they added role players to replace their 2 best guys including a top 10 player is baffling."

It's not at all baffling to me. Basketball is a team game where Chemistry, Balance and Depth is critical. When those elements are in place, the sum is often greater than the parts.

And that's one of the problems I have with the analysis of this trade. People are examing the individuals as if they exist in a vaccuum. Prior to the trade, NY team chemistry, balance, and depth was very high and improving every week. Since the trade all of the above plummeted.

In Denver, it was the exact opposite. I think the Denver players are enjoying the switch to team basketball versus giving the ball to Carmelo and getting out of his way. In Denver the sum of the parts is now greater than the individuals.

BothTeamsPlayedHard
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Hey look! The Melo Knicks

Hey look! The Melo Knicks have taken advantage of an easy stretch of games just like the team did to open the year.

BKKnicksfan
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Damn....I really hate this

Damn....I really hate this trade. First winning season in 9 years. TERRIBLE DEAL

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