This is my first time posting a topic on here and I was just wondering about the potential of some of this years college freshman as impact players in college and in the NBA. There are a lot of people on this site with a ton of basketball knowledge and insight so I thought it would be interesting to get some opinions on some players that I haven't been able to see much, if anything at all of.
What I've Seen:
Noah Vonleh- his hype has died down considerably but he has the size and physical gifts to be a very good two way player and mismatch at either forward spot.
Tyler Ennis- Haven't heard much said about him, will be given the keys to the orange offense from day one. Not super athletic but is a crafty and aggressive scorer with decent size and a good bball IQ, the one time i saw him play he dropped 33 in the fiba u19 tourny.
Kasey Hill- Another guy I haven't heard much about in a while, all I've had a chance to see of him are the highlights looks to have a good motor and athleticism, showed some nice passing skills as well.
James Young- Recently there's been a fair amount of hype around him, looks to have elite scoring potential with good defensive skills as well. Good not great athlete but is extremely smooth and fluid on the court. I think he should and will start eventually for UK and will be a lotto pick when he comes out.
Wayne Selden- Elite athlete with high motor, good all around player with underrated passing and handles, big and strong enough to overpower other wings. I'm not a fan of player comparisons but he reminds me a little of oladipo, a little more refined offensively, not as intense defensively.
I know its early to speculate but we all have our opinions, what do you think these players are gonna do in college and in the NBA? Also, which one is the best prospect, particularly between Young and Selden?
Vonleh has good physical gifts, and a nice shooting stroke. But he's a bit between the 3 and the 4 right now.
Tyler could sneak up on people if he shows the ability to defend and get into the lane against quicker guards. improving shot, and great intangibles.
Hill has unreal potential but needs to show half court efficiency and better pg instincts if he wants to be a first rounder this year.
Young is probably the player on Kentucky who can be a successful role player on a very good team. can be a great shooter and 1-2 dribble driver for a strong team ala eddie jones back in the 90's.
I really like wayne selden to put up the most consistent scoring numbers at Kansas. Good at getting to the rim and drawing fouls and has a decent 3. filling out the in between game could get him top 5. great motor.
People are going to disagree but when it's all said and done, Wayne Selden will be a better NBA player than Andrew Wiggins, and Joel Embiid needs some love also.
Wayne has the athleticism, the size,( I don't know why people keep saying he;s 6'3 or 6'4, the last 3 years when he's measured in, he's been 6'5 or 6'6" and in between 223 pounds and 229 pounds.) He also has a nice shooting stroke, and he is a good albeit a little too flashy passer.
I like James Young, I still don't think he will be the best player from Kentucky like some have been saying recently, but Iike him as a steady role player in the NBA, a good 3rd option.
Noah Venleh, I like his potential, I think he will find a legit position at Indiana, after a year or 2. When he settles in, he just seems too hard of a worker to not be successful, not Super star success, but maybe a few all stars like his comparison Jamal Mashburn, no matter the position he needs to work on his wing skills.
Tyler Ennis, I think he's going to be like every other syracuse point guard, great in college but either doesn't make or barely makes the league. MCW made it for his size and athleticism for the position, but he's no where near a lock to be successful.
Kasey Hill, he's the next in line for the Chris Paul comparison, first it was Kyrie Irving, now he doesn't have Kyrie's size, but he's a great athlete, and he's a plus ball handler. I think Billy Donovan will calm him down into the true point guard he can be. Future star. Love the kid. He's going to be amazing in the league.
I think in a few years, Wayne Selden, Kasey Hill, Julius Randle, Aaron Gordon, and Jabari Parker will be the best players from this recruiting class. I think Andrew Wiggins will turn out to be a great player just not what everyone is saying he's going to be.
Scottie Pippen, Dominque Wilkins, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Grant Hill, these are the absurd names that have been thrown out as Andrew Wiggins comparisons.
I think he will be Wilson Chandler with a chance, meaning He will be the number 1 pick and actually get faith put into his career for some time. Wilson Chandler can play 3 positions, he can shoot the 3, He can handle the ball, he can rebound, he can defend, he's athletic, he can attack the basket. I think Andrew Wiggins will be able to do that as well, but Wilson Chandler isn't Scottie Pippen and neither is Andrew Wiggins.
Your write-up is solid, just the Wiggins part of course stands out to me. You have every right to your opinion, I just see no real basketball reasoning behind at least Kasey Hill and Aaron Gordon ending up as better NBA players than Andrew Wiggins. Also do believe he will indeed be better than Selden as well. I know there have been talks about Wiggins "motor" and his mental state, plus people are upset about the hype surrounding him. Let me say, having seen all of these players in person, it is just incredibly difficult Wiggins is not at the very least the third best prospect, I would say the best.
Just wondering, where exactly do you get Wilson Chandler from Wiggins? Why are at the very least the Scottie Pippen and Dominique Wilkins comparisons so absurd? The guy has really special athleticism, which he does indeed combine with real basketball ability. Certain aspects of his game are a work in progress, though having seen him playing at KU's Late Night at the Phog, nothing indicates that he is not going to have a major impact during his one season at Kansas. Really wonder what type of players you expect the 5 guys you listed to become that make them better than Andrew Wiggins. Plus, the Wilson Chandler comparison would be his absolute floor to me.
If you want why I strongly feel that Kasey Hill and Aaron Gordon are not in his class as prospects, here is my take. Kasey Hill is a nice PG, however he is quite small. Defensively he may have issues, he needs to work on his consistency shooting the ball and while he is a strong athlete, he does not necessarily jump off the page for PG's. Hard for me to believe he will be at the level amongst his position that Wiggins should be at the next level.
With Aaron Gordon, he is an impressive athlete and works quite hard. However, his ball skills need quite a bit of work and his offensive game is incredibly raw. Plus, while he can jump and may have a bit more power than Andrew Wiggins, he is not even close to him in terms of lateral speed and quickness. Wiggins has so many more ways to kill you offensively and I do believe has much more potential as a defender as well. Gordon gets credit for playing hard and having a good "motor", however that still does not make up for the fact that Andrew Wiggins is a much more complete basketball player. Gordon will need to catch up quite a bit to be on his level and it is hard to see it happening.
Wayne Selden is the only prospect I have never seen live, just again am hearing he is in no way as explosive an athlete as Wiggins. While his body is impressive and the word was he was "Kansas' most consistent performer", I just believe he is probably not held to the same level Wiggins is in terms of what people expect. Parker and Randle to me are the two best prospects outside of Wiggins in the current freshman class and the only ones I could see being near his level as NBA prospects. In the end, I believe that Andrew Wiggins is just on a different level athletically and defensively is on a much higher course than either. Plus, his offensive game should be perfectly suited to the NBA level.
Wiggins is not a finished product and still has things to work on. I also do believe that he has some fire to him and is a competitor, plus has indeed put in a lot of work to be at the level he is right now. In my mind, people are discounting this due to his oversized expectations. I do not believe he is being compared to people such as Wilt Chamberlain, Danny Manning and LeBron James as much as he may be a prospect at this time in the same vain as they were at their given point in time. He obviously has work to do and even he has deflected such comparisons and cited that he has a lot of work to do.
As far as Scottie Pippen is concerned, I do not see how it is so unfair. Scottie Pippen at 18 was not Scottie Pippen, granted. To me, Andrew Wiggins definitely has the potential to be a lock down defender and while he is probably not going to be a point forward like Scottie was, his potential offensively is even greater. Scottie was nowhere as quick as Andrew on the spin, plus while Andrew needs work to get his shot to Pippen's level, it is far from broken. To me, Wiggins will absolutely stuff the stat sheet at the college level and his ceiling at the NBA level is very high.
I know Scottie Pippen is one of the All-Time greats, just want to know why it is suddenly so popular to believe Andrew Wiggins does not have close to his potential as a prospect? Scottie was not Scottie until Michael Jordan lit a fire under his @ss. Are people already saying Andrew Wiggins will not have that ability to get there without playing a single college game? Is that not as ridiculous as the high level comparisons that have been thrown around and the expectations placed on him? To me, I believe it is. He may not be LeBron James or Kevin Durant, he will need a lot of work before being on the level of those guys. However, how are the other comparisons so absurd and what makes the Wilson Chandler comparison so viable?
I'm going to try to answer all of this in order, that was a long post so bare with me.
1. I think very highly of Wilson Chandler, injuries have started to get the best of him lately, and of course Denver having 1,000,000 wing players. At Knicks his game was really coming along, he was averaging like 16 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, a block and a steal while having some good shooting spurts albeit in different seasons. He can do a little bit of everything, we've seen him play the 2,3, and 4. He also has a great body, which I think Wiggins will eventually have in 2-3 years. He's 6'8" now, around 200 pounds, I think he'll get that extra 25 pounds eventually from working and just getting older. The times I have watched Andrew Wiggins, not in person but on the internet, I can see how special of an athlete he is, it's crazy, but I also see he's a streaky shooter, with a slightly slow jump shot. He kinds of holds it at the top, while he starts coming down. Also everyone talks about how great of a passer he is, but every time I've seen him, he's only got assists out of double teams, now there is nothing wrong with that, he can work on it, but Scottie Pippen was a legit point forward, who averaged over 5 assists a game for his career and had seasons as high as 7. I don't think Wiggins will ever get there, I think highly of Wilson Chandler and think he could have been an all star at one point, maybe everyone else doesn't think as high, So maybe Rudy Gay would be a good comparison for Wiggins. Rudy Gay was compared to Scottie Pippen also, and he had the same question about his game as Andrew when he came out of school, and for the Dominque comparison, Dominque was one of the best wing 2 point scorers ever, he shot 48% on 2 pointers for his career, he only shot 31% from 3. He averaged 25 points a game for his career without being able to shoot 3's. I don't think Wiggins will have a game where he can score almost whenever he wants inside of 15. Also, I think the basketball society needs to temper these comparisons until a player at least plays in college. Let's be realistic, there are a ton of payers who look like the next Jordan in high school. I mean let's look at the recent drafts, Shabazz Muhammed- Kobe Bryant, Austin Rivers at one point was Russell Westbrook/Stephen Curry, Dion Waiters- Dwyane Wade, albeit he got injured- Quincy Miller- Kevin Durant, PJIII also Kevin Durant. Let's just temper these hall of fame comparisons. I think he has an incredibly high ceiling, just not sure he'll reach it.
2. Wayne Selden, man I love his game, he's a hard worker, he's a great athlete (he's not Andrew Wiggins but not many people are), He can shoot it, he can handle the rock, and he has the potential to be a strong defender, and supposedly the word coming out of Kansas is he has a post game coming along. When you're a 6'6, 225 pound shooting guard, having a post game, will make him have a all around game, he also has a fire to him, that I haven't really seen from Andrew yet, that's something you can't teach, you have to have fire. I feel will be able to do everything at a plus level in the NBA. I also wouldn't be honest, if I didn't say i'm scared he could be just like Brandon Rush and Xavier Henry, hopefully Ben Mclemore can break the chain, and maybe Andrew Wiggins will blow up instead of being a better Juliun Wright.
3. Kasey Hill, has all of the potential, i'm counting on Billy Donovan unlocking it, I feel he has things to his game that can be improved on. Trey Burke got the CP3 comparison this year, people just took off on his athleticism, Kasey Hill has better athleticism, and he may be a better ball handler, I don't think at this point he's a better shooter than Burke, but he's working on it. I just feel he has all of the tools to be a successful point guard, but I'm placing this all on Billy Donovan, he could be the next CP3 or he could end up being a Darren Collison as you said or a DJ Augustin.
4. Aaron Gordon, even though he's working 2 play 3, or a really big 2 in some situations as he said, I think he'll end up being a 4 in the league, and his working on his perimeter game will help him at that position, He's already put on 13 pounds since he's been at UA. I don't think he's going to be 250 pounds like Blake, but I do think he'll end up being around 235. He's at 225 now. He's 6'9. I think he'll end up being a relentless worker, blocking shots, getting steals, rebounding, playing above the rim, and stepping out to the 3 point line every once in a while, and he can be a break starter sometimes. I don't think players have to be the same type of player for one to be better. I agree with you that Wiggins is more laterally quicker, but I don't think Gordon will have to use it as much and I don't think it's a huge gap, there is one though. I compare him to Shawn Marion, now you're probably saying, "So Shawn Marion will be the best player from the 2014 draft and one of the best players in the league?" I'm saying I don't think this draft has any top 10 players but it can have a lot of top 50 players. I also believe his hard work and motor will pay off, his shot isn't as broke as say MKG's. Shawn Marion at point was a top 20 player in my opinion.
5. Now that's just my opinion, we can disagree, but I hope that gave you the insight you were looking for.
He will fall under the circumstances of Shabazz Muhammad, Austin Rivers, Quincy Miller and Perry Jones III? I just do not see a lot of basketball reasoning behind that. I know that you deem what may happen based on history, the thing is why does that necessarily have to happen to Andrew Wiggins? He certainly has tools that none of those other players possessed athletically. He alters games in a number of different areas.
The issue with comparisons is that their is never going to be one player exactly like another. Some people view comparisons as being what the player plays like or their role. Others like purely statistical comparisons or comparing body types. With Wiggins, he may never average as many assists as Scottie Pippen, but could he not have a similar impact or possibly do a lot of things similar to Scottie? I agree it is not the best comparison, just do not think it is ridiculous.
My biggest issue I suppose is saying these other players are better than Wiggins due to some perceived mental block or his falling victim to pressure. It basically seems like you are saying the other players will work harder than Andrew Wiggins, which I do not deem as being fair. He has not made these comparisons for himself. They were made due to his play and his upside. I think already suggesting he will not live up to them due to other players being put in a semi-similar situation not doing so is not judging him by the skills he does indeed possess.
Wilson Chandler is a good player, but yes, I do believe that is a major under sell. That may be better than an over sell, though I do believe that the abilities of some of these other players are being over sold to put Wiggins into a category below them as prospects. To me, Andrew Wiggins just has flat out more basketball skill than Aaron Gordon and a much higher upside at his position as opposed to Kasey Hill. Also believe that he will prove to be the more affective freshman as opposed to Wayne Selden and should carry on to move past him as time goes on. Again, could be wrong. I guess I just would like to know why Wiggins will not have the ability to draw double teams and become an absolute terror going to the rim, though. What will prevent him from at least possibly doing so? Plus, why are the other comparisons so loose and the ones with Wiggins so rigid?
I actually think I left the comparisons for other players open.. For Wayne Selden I mentioned, Xavier Henry, and Brandon Rush who were supposed to be the next big things going into college or while in college, they performed okay, and then didn't do much in the league(although both are still fairly young).
For Kasey Hill, I agreed with you on how he could end up being a Darren Collison or maybe even DJ Augustin type player (who even though I love the dude, his family is friends with my family in New Orleans) I think DJ Augustin is not as good as a player as Darren, so that leaves a fairly good range for him.
So I think I actually gave loose comparison for those players. I think you're picking words from what I say, and not reading the whole thing.
I think the only person i'm hard selling on is Gordon. I just think he'll fit into today's new NBA perfectly. With his skills at the 4 position. Everyone still gives MKG the benefit of the doubt on his jump shot because he's a hard worker, so why can't we do that with Gordon?
I think you're underselling Wayne Selden, and what is happening is what always happens with basketball fans, they let athleticism be the number 1 factor. Well last time I checked Gerald Green and James White aren't top players in the league. I think Wiggins will gain weight but I don't think he'll ever have that crazy Russell Westbrook strength with a thin frame, that's why I don't think he will be an absolute terror going to the rim. If you reread what I say, I only mentioned Wiggins fire once and that was when I said I don't think his is as good as Wayne Selden's. So this perceived mental block you said I spoke of never happened. Feel free to go reread it. I never said these players will work harder than Wiggins, I just said they are known to be hard workers.
And the only reason I mentioned Austin Rivers, PJIII, etc is so I could say we should temper expectations, at one point Deshawn Stevenson was compared to Michael Jordan (remember that). That statement isn't just about Wiggins that's about any player, we need to be realistic and temper expectations.
Now this is my opinion once again, and there is nothing wrong with a friendly disagreement, but on this site people are known to have hard-ons for players and they'll never admit they are wrong if the player isn't what they thought.
I'm just not as high on Wiggins as everyone else, everyone mentions his spin move, and crazy athleticism but no one mentions the things he needs to work on, except his "fire". Which that's not even the reason I don't like him as much as others, but it could be a problem if it's true and this is coming from a Rudy Gay fan, he never really figured it out, and you can see him not give his all, all of the time, and we all know Rudy is supremely talented.
So I don't think I was so rigid on Wiggins.
So, to make sure I'm interpriting this correctly...You are worried since Xavier Henry and Julian Wright were busts and Brandon Rush was a late lotto role player then Andrew Wiggins and Wayne Selden won't pan out? That's a little odd considering that you have such an unfavorable opinion on comparing top high school players to elite NBA players. No, those comparisons aren't fair, but comparing guys who haven't played a game of college basketball to former KU players who didn't succeed is?
Comparing top high school prospects to elite talent isn't fair, BUT comparing top high school prospects with games that aren't at all similar to busts that went to the same school 3-5 years ago is?
Don't follow, dude.
Wasn't comparing their games, was comparing shooting guards who went to Bill Self and Kansas, he hasn't really produced quality shooting guards. Maybe it's his system or maybe it's his ability to develop players. His players aren't usually that good in the NBA, but I believe in Selden's talent that much. That's my opinion.
His best player in the NBA is Deron Williams who he only coached for 1 season in Illinois.
So yeah, stop reading too much into stuff, you can ask a question instead of putting your own meanings to my words.
So yeah, you didn't answer my question. Why is it so absurd to compare a current #1 recruit to a former #1 recruit who went on to be an All-Star, but perfectly acceptable to compare two shooting guards that aren't that alike because they played for the same coach?
Maybe I assumed too much, but isn't that what you are doing? What on earth does Xavier Henry have to do with Wayne Selden? Nothing.
The whole, "certain schools don't produce good pro's'' is a weak arguement. Do you think Cleveland cared about Jay Williams, Nolan Smith, or Chris Duhan when they drafted Kyrie Irving? Hell no, but there was that whole "Duke can't produce point guards" sentiment floating around and it's always been weak. Players are individuals, and lets face it...a player's career trajectory when they hit the NBA has little to do with their college coach, especially when they are one year players. You can't blame Bill Self for Julian Wright being the same player he was at 25 than he was at 21, you can't blame Roy Williams for Sean May not controlling his weight, you can't blame Coach K for Nolan Smith not finding a role in the NBA.
Is why you think these players will be better than Andrew Wiggins from a basketball perspective. How is Aaron Gordon better suited for the NBA than Wiggins? Because of his position? I am not so sure he is 6-9/225 right now, though he is listed as such. Still, he may indeed be shorter than that and he needs to gain strength to be a factor in the league. My thing is, what in his skill set makes him better than Wiggins?
Seeing that all I am getting from you seems to be "work ethic", than I am a little puzzled as to why you feel a similarly athletic player, who is faster, more skilled and plays a different forward position is a worse prospect. That is where I am coming from. Wiggins is a better shooter, ball handler and penetrates much more affectively than Gordon. I know you claim I am not giving Gordon the benefit of the doubt on his jump shot, though is that not exactly what you are saying with Wiggins? That is why I am curious as to where you see these guys in the NBA.
The average draft usually has about 3-5 All-Stars. The average HS class usually has more, I suppose, though I just can't help but wonder what is your reasoning behind Wiggins not reaching his potential and Selden being a better player down the road. To me, it seems like it does not have much to do with basketball as it does with comparing players who have had hype and stating a couple of cases that seem to have little to do with Andrew Wiggins, besides his not having played a game yet at the time he was receiving (not making) these comparisons.
If his athleticism were his only factor, I do not think he would be the consensus #1 prospect coming into college. The guy can create, defend and rebound pretty damn well, has been doing so for quite a while. He still has some things he needs to learn, as every freshman does. Again, I think his shot is quite a bit better than Aaron Gordon and probably Julius Randle as well. Jabari is a great shooter and I know Wayne has improved, just do not think Wiggins is that bad at all. He obviously has facets to his game that make him a good prospect beyond athleticism. The guys conditioning is pretty freaking solid and his quick twitch muscles are off the charts for a player his size. This can only lead to amazing things as far as potential for his dribbling and creating space for shots, not to mention defense.
This is why I am having a hard time understanding what you said about Andrew Wiggins being at a level below the other prospects. It seems to be off of superstition as opposed to basketball, which is your prerogative, just do not think it is as applicable as explaining why you think those guys will be better NBA players than Andrew Wiggins. If you believe you did that, I am sorry, just did not really get it I guess. As far as Bill Self as a coach, I think he has done pretty well. Plus, did Billy Donovan unlock Kenny Boynton, Kenny Kadji, James White or Donnell Harvey? Did Sean Miller make Derrick Williams into an NBA ready player or make him look better as a prospect? To me, these are just some players that they have coached, not defining them as coaches.
Also, if you can give me the reason Wayne Selden will be a better basketball player than Andrew Wiggins while they are playing for the same coach, I would like to know. The only thing I am seeing is "fire". Guess I just do not buy that as a reason and think that Wiggins "fire" is only raised as a concern due to coming up short finding other more viable ones. Think he is a competitor and wants to get better, plus has been doing so. You are definitely entitled to your opinion, I just would like basketball reasons for his not being the prospect these other players are rather than his falling victim to the hype that he did not give himself. It was given to him because of his ability as a basketball player in his young career.
I know others have fallen victime to the hype, but I think things happen on a case by case basis rather than in historical patterns of top ranked players not living up to major comparisons. Remember, other players in this class have gotten pretty high praise as far as comparisons as well. To me, the reason I believe you are being rigid on Andrew Wiggins is that you are giving a comparison that does not necessarily put him below these other players who you stated you feel will be the best players in the class. Hope this makes sense, I just would like you to state why these guys will be better than Andrew Wiggins with more basketball reasons, plus maybe explanations behind his shortcomings that would make the other players superior NBA prospects.
Noah Vonleh: As the original poster said, his physical tools are really impressive. His play may be in between positions, yet he is the best type of tweener in that he has the size to play PF while he has a skill set that can also allow him to stretch the floor. He needs to become a bit more aggressive as an offensive player, while maybe refining so go-to moves near the basket. Still young and still has time, to me he is one of the 5-10 better NBA prospects coming into college. It may take more than one year, just seeing it playing out that way down the line. Jamal Mashburn seems to be who he is most often compared to and to me, that is not bad at all. Might not be a guy you build your team around, though he is a guy who can provide some big match-up problems down the line.
Tyler Ennis: Seen him live a few times and his ball skills are very impressive. Great handle, nice vision and he is very good at changing speeds. His defense is something that will need work as far as the NBA level is concerned, however he will play early and often as Syracuse has no other real "true" PG. Tyler uses both hands incredibly well and while he will need to gain consistency as an outside shooter, will be much more consistent than Michael Carter-Williams was in that regard. Of course he is not the all-around player or athlete MCW was, just will be a factor for him possibly being a different type of threat for defenses. Tyler seems almost like a Jarrett Jack type down the line, maybe with an upside similar to Andre Miller.
Kasey Hill: Kasey is a good point guard prospect and is quicker than Ennis. He is probably even more of an offensive threat, though at the same time I feel like Ennis is a tad stronger. The quickness will probably make Kasey more of a plus on the defensive side than Ennis. I just do not see the same level of explosive athleticism that has some comparing Kasey to a few of the higher caliber PG's in the league. Plus he can at times be a bit to passive offensively. He is tough for his size, yet it could also really cause him issues going up against bigger PGs. Just some thing I witnessed when watching him. I have a really hard time finding a good comparison for him, though I could see him being a Darren Collison type option for running your team. Does not have Darren's speed, though he might have more instinct as a playmaker.
James Young: Have not seen him live, though have heard good things. Seems to have solid length and appears to move very well. Has a lot of potential on both sides of the court and appears to be quite aggressive. His half court offense seems to be in the rougher stages at this point, he will need to work on handling the ball under pressure. Nice athlete, though not at an elite caliber level. Still very young and has a lot of upside as a wing prospect. Hard for me to give a good comparison as well, just think he could be a serviceable starter, possibly at either wing position.
Wayne Selden: As I said, have not seen Wayne live either, just know from watching him in the ASG's and online that he is a tank. Seems to be best in a running type game, going to the basket with some space. Not incredibly quick and while I know his shot as well as ball handling has improved, still room for more. Has length to be a solid defender, though want to see how he moves his feet laterally at the next level. Not sure about his ability to create his own offense in the half court set and to get past people using quickness rather than bowling through them with his strength. I know Dion Waiters has become a fairly popular comparison and I am not sure Wayne scores like he does, just very similar frame with some vision to their game.
I've seen Wayne multiple times over the past few years on the AAU and camp circuits. He is EXTREMELY strong and athletic vertically. He does indeed create quite well in the half-court, a fact that surprised me. He is one of those guys who looks like he doesn't move well, but then completely catches you off guard. He has excellent (and I mean excellent) body control and a nasty rip through which, thanks to his physical strength, provides him with the ability to blow by or body up for a step back. His advanced ball-handling does need work, but in space he is just fine and has really nice vision, especially once he gets in the paint for drop offs and kick outs. Biggest areas for improvement: ball handling in tight quarters and outside consistency with the J. All in all- LEGIT. Might actually be a better pro thanks to the extra spacing and man to man D.