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More Scouting Tests from the Past

JonOats
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More Scouting Tests from the Past

This is comparing similiarly sized and skilled players over different draft classes. I've added some comments about each without giving away too much of their identity. The purpose isn't to guess who each player is, but what order you would rank them in and how high you would select them. I'll wait a little longer this time to reveal the player's identity.

Player A-Senior shotblocker, raw on offense, needs to improve strength
Height 6'10" 210 lbs Wing 7'3.5" Max vert 11'10
14 pts, 10 reb, 4.7 blks

Player B-Freshman defensive presence, good facing basket, needs to improve strength
Height 6'10" 220 lbs Wing 7'8" Max vert 12' 2"
14 pts, 9.8 reb, 4.7 blks

Player C Freshman shotblocker, good hook shot and offensive rebounder, good range
Height 6'11.5" 227lbs Wing 7'7" Max Vert 12'
13 pts, 8.9 reb, 5.3 blks

Player D Senior versatile, strong intangibles, lacks toughness
Height 6'9.75" 237 lbs Wing 7'4.5" Max Vert 11'8"
13.9 pts, 9.75 reb, 3.7 blk

Player E Sophomore strong outside shot, good rebounder, needs to improve strength
Height 6'10" 230 lbs Wing 7'1"
21.1 pts, 9.9 reb, .5 blk


ItsVictorOladipo
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Are they all from the same

Are they all from the same conference?

Edit: Oh, they're not, I know who a few of them are. I feel like level of competition is a huge indicator of ability to be fair...

JonOats
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Not this time.

Different conferences and different years. All in the last 5 years though. Was getting too difficult to find similiar players for each year and position.

ItsVictorOladipo
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How I'd rank them if they all

How I'd rank them if they all played at around the same level of competition:

B

E

C

D

A

That being said I know who C is and if I knew his actual age and skill level (he did have a nice hook shot but I don't know if I'd say he has range) he'd probably be at the bottom of the list.

DondiJohn
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Here's mine

1.E

2.C

3.B

4.A

5.D

Its very difficult to select because I dont know if how he played against top competitions or is he the go-to guy of the team.

JonOats
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all from major conferences except C

and all were considered the best player on their team

DondiJohn
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Are all these players considered a 4 or 5?

All power forwards or centers?

JonOats
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b and c

could play some center, but mostly pf

JonOats
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And where would you pick them?

estimates are fine. top 5, lottery, first rd etc.

DondiJohn
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Hindsight

If they have the same schedule, only stats are shown and I dont know who they are, I'd still stick to my choices. Id still would want to see them in the NBA Combine to assess their skills.

RichieRebel
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B by a huge margin, D, E, C,

B by a huge margin, D, E, C, A. by the way I know B's wingspan has not been verified until he goes to the combine.

RichieRebel
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I would pick B # 1. D I would

I would pick B # 1. D I would take # 6, E I would take #21 , C I would take # 33, A I would take #41

DondiJohn
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Question

Why'd you add Player B? He isnt drafted yet. The fact that player B and C are almost identical and we select B most of the time because we know who he is and player C is having a hard time playing.

DondiJohn
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Identities

A- Jarvis Varnardo

B- Anthony Davis

C-Hassan Whiteside

D- Ekpe Udoh

E- Ryan Anderson

RichieRebel
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Because we know Kentucky

Because we know Kentucky plays a much harder schedule than Marshall, and is a much more talented team that is why it is important to know which team a player plays for.

lalaila
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where you found out Anthony

where you found out Anthony has 7'8 wings?? cause i think he is B..

also C has to be Hassan but it's unfair to post only measurements and stats while he played in such a bad conference and team comparing to Davis

JonOats
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Cheaters

Point wasn't to google the stats to figure out who everyone is. I made some educated guesses on Davis's wingspan and vert. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and gave him slightly better measurements than Whiteside. I agree that Whiteside played lower comp game to game, but what about Varnado and Udoh?

Also Whiteside had 18pts 6 rebs 2blks against West virginia (ranked #11) and 22 pts 8 rebs7 blks against Memphis and 20 points 14 rebs 7 blks against UTEP (ranked #24). He's drafted early second round.

Yeah E is Ryan Anderson. Drafted 21st overall.

mikeyvthedon
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At the very least say the type of conference

Marshall was in the MAC and clearly was not on par with the other conferences these guys were playing in. Plus, Davis having a 7'8 wingspan is incredibly farfetched. The guy has major arms, but I think anything over 7'6 (I think more likely 7'4 and a bit) would be surprising to say the least. Maybe you were being sarcastic, as you have displayed your distaste of Davis?

Still, I find that having similar stats do not always produce similar results. That is why it is hard to find cases, these are more in the minority than the majority I believe. You need to know about the mental make-up of the player and also analyze greater details of their game. Here is one of two players in the same draft who played in the same (major) conference, both wings. Which one would you choose?:

Player A: 21 years old 6'7, 7'0.5, 202, 11'6.5 Max Vert

18.6 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.3 TO, 1.7 spg, 0.9 bpg

Head's up: Game 1: 19, 4 and 1 assist Game 2: 27, 5 and 2

Player B: 22 years old, 6'8.5, 7'2, 205, 11'6 Max Vert

16.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.3 TO, 1 spg, 1.9 bpg

Heads-up: Game 1: 22, 7 and no assists Game 2: 15, 7 and 1

Still, tend to not think it is as black and white as this game makes it out to be. With Varnado and Udoh, you forgot to put, "Not even close to Anthony Davis in skill set". Not to mention Davis shooting 66% from the field and being on a team that has bulldozed the competition with him leading the way.

ItsVictorOladipo
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^ Going just by those numbers

^

Going just by those numbers mikey just about everyone would have to pick Player A. Better in almost every number except blocks and just a tad shorter than player B.

JonOats
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kentucky's SOS isn't great

It's def not as strong as you'd think. 40th behind Iowa State, Purdue, Memphis, and ... Marshall this year.

Mashall's SOS in 2010 was 35th btw so the competition arguement is out the window.

Davis in some games against ranked teams:

UNC 7 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blks

Indiana 6 pts, 9 rebs, 3 blks

Florida 16 pts, 6 rebs, 4 blks

Mr. 19134
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You obviously made this post

You obviously made this post this post to get people to select Whiteside over Davis without adding in the fact Davis is the only player on this list who has the ability to win National Player of The Year as freshman and nobody else on this list would even get a vote for that award.

Here's on for ya with PG's

Player A: Sr. 6'1 180, nice athlete with exceptional quickness and penetrating ability. Good on ball defender.

13.6 ppg, 5rpg, 10apg, 1.6 spg, 3.2 t.o.'s. 49%FG, 41% 3Pt. 81%FT

Player B: Soph, 6'4 197, limited athlete, average quickness, game managing ability. Improving defender.

7.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 9.6 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 t.o's, 43% FG, 31% 3pt. 71%FT

Would you take player A or B to have an impact on the league next year?....

ItsVictorOladipo
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Here's on for ya with

Here's on for ya with PG's

Player A: Sr. 6'1 180, nice athlete with exceptional quickness and penetrating ability. Good on ball defender.

13.6 ppg, 5rpg, 10apg, 1.6 spg, 3.2 t.o.'s. 49%FG, 41% 3Pt. 81%FT

Player B: Soph, 6'4 197, limited athlete, average quickness, game managing ability. Improving defender.

7.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 9.6 apg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 t.o's, 43% FG, 31% 3pt. 71%FT

Would you take player A or B to have an impact on the league next year?....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd take Machado, mostly because I feel like he can do more things than Marshall (score, defend, attack the rim and pass). The age difference is just one year as well so I don't really think there is huge difference is potential.

JonOats
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2010 WVU

Made it to the Final Four that year too.

Mr. 19134
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Yeah and Anthony Davis won

Yeah and Anthony Davis won all those games against ranked teams.

I like how you only put "some" here are his stats in "some" other games against ranked teams:

Kansas #11: 14 points, 6 rebounds, 7 blocks, 6/8FG 2-6FT

Louisville #4: 18 points, 10 rebounds, 6 blocks, 3/4 FG 12-13 FT

Florida #13: 22 points, 12 rebounds, 6 blocks, 9/13 FG 1/2 3pt 3-4 FT

JonOats
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I was just showing their similiarities

I think most people still take Davis, but I inflated Davis's measurables to give him the benefit of the doubt. If you'd have put Whiteside on this 'Tucky team everyone would have been going ape for him too.

I like Machado too. The difference there is really the SOS. Whiteside and Davis played a very similiar schedule and Marshall's was actually tougher. UNC's SOS this year is 5th and Iona's is 160th.

We'll see what Marshall's and Machado's measureable really are in May.

JonOats
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First off- They lost to Indiana

Louisville currently unranked in AP poll.

The thing with Davis blocking shots to me is that other people have done it just as well but not for as highly a ranked team.

mikeyvthedon
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Player A

Is Vincent Yarborough. Player B is Tayshaun Prince. See why I think this game makes much less sense than JonOats seems to think it does. Jon, SOS is a pretty stupid statistic. It combines the records of every team you have played, not necessarily factoring in how good these teams actually are.

They were in C-USA by than, but going up against a team with Pierre Henderson-Niles at Center in Memphis is not going up against Festus Ezeli and Patric Young like Davis did. Hassan Whiteside went up against UNC also, and had 7 points, 4 rebounds and 3 blocks. None of them was the potential game saving block on John Henson, I will tell you that much (they lost 98-61). Plus, it was the UNC team that went to the NIT, not this years top 5 squad.

I see the point you are trying to make Jon, but I do not think that it is as applicable as you make it. There is much more to it than stats and attributes. It is knowing where to be on the court, having a want and ability to learn, plus also there are physical concerns that may have to do with injury. You not saying how the team was doing or was ranked is definitely not getting your point across and just trying to trip people up.

If you think that Hassan Whiteside had a tougher schedule than a Kentucky team that played Kansas, North Carolina, Louisville and Indiana before conference play, I think you are on your own. I am guessing you did not know the major flaw in SOS, but adding every teams record together is not necessarily proving you played against better competition. Not to mention, going 30-1 and perfect in conference is not going 24-10 and losing to Appalachian State in the CollegeInsider.com Postseason Tournament.

Jon, you make some points, but you leave too much out. I know you want people to be objective, but I do not think you are being objective yourself. You give "some Davis games against ranked teams" than leave out all of the ones he did well in. He just went for 22, 12 and 6 against Florida, they are still ranked. C-USA got two teams into the tournament that year, and Memphis was not one of them. The SEC is not strong this year, but it was much stronger than the C-USA when Whiteside was playing and should have a minimum of 4 NCAA teams. Not to mention, the 3rd place conference finisher will get a NIT bid instead of the tournament Marshall was relegated to that year with Whiteside at the helm.

mikeyvthedon
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If Hassan Whiteside were on the same "Tucky team

They would not be as good as they are right now. He would be playing with better players, granted, but do you honestly believe that a player who was averaging 26.9 minutes per game and shooting 52.4% from the field on a 24-10 team that went 11-5 in C-USA would be doing what Davis is doing right now? His fouls would go up, he averaged twice as many TO pg as Davis does right now, plus I think you are making much to big a deal about Davis as a shot blocker.

Davis is a pest. He is all over the court on defense and is not afraid to mix it up or be aggressive. That is what separates Davis defensively from these guys who are considered "just shot blockers". This is the reason why Davis' shot blocking ability is praised, because he does so while keeping a low foul rate and effecting the game in many other ways. Ways that I do not think a guy like Hassan Whiteside would effect the game if in the same position.

JonOats
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Really not trying to trip people up

Everyone was already determined to guess who each player was so including more team info would just let everyone fall back to their pre conceived notions about each player.

The list of "can't miss" prospects is fairly long and ignoring the results of similiar type of players and proclaiming Davis as a sure thing super star is crazy to me.

And yeah SOS is flawed but gotta use something for comparing conferences. And it's slightly more complicated than you said.

mikeyvthedon
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By the way

Kentucky's SOS this year is indeed 40.

Marshall's when Hassan Whiteside was playing: 121

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/marshall?season=2009-2010

This year Marshall is #35 this year, but I don't see anyone to compare to Davis on the team right now. Plus, strength of schedule seems to be your record against Division I opponents. It may include who the other teams play as well, but to say that the argument in the case of Hassan Whiteside is not valid when it comes to SOS seems to be actually valid.

I do not proclaim Anthony Davis a "sure thing superstar". But, I think that he certainly has traits that are beyond the players you listed and I think you are oversimplifying it to try to prove a point that might not be there. Anthony Davis has his flaws and will need to work on things, I think the comparisons people are coming up with are lofty and unfair. But, I think that the similarities between he, Jarvis Varnado and Hassan Whiteside are not even close to as plentiful as you think. Not to mention, I dislike using "Max Vert Reach" as a pillar of athleticism.

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