MJ and LBJ - First Take
There is no doubt that MJ would be the greatest player in the NBA if we were talking effectiveness to NBA's growth.
But from a pure basketball aspect, is it still MJ?
Was just watching one of the episodes of First take and they were talking about who was the greatest between MJ and LBJ.
Both won first champ around the same age of 27, MJ didnt get a sweet J until just before he started his decline and most importantly the MJ that people are comparing to is the current Lebron. Lebrons shooting % has a very solid increase and seems to be on the rise, therefore in someways it feels like the race has just started for LBJ.
One thing MJ had over LBJ was his education. The education he received before entering into the NBA and because of that, he had the ability to handle things more maturely and focus on basketball. Also having the privilege to share basketball knowledge with Dean Smith would allow MJ to be more mentally ready for the NBA.
Since LBJ is still at his physical prime, he still has room for improvement as he matures and time forces him to play smarter. After two MVP and NBA rings under his belt, LBJ would be hungry for a third and determined. Im sure post moves will be in his game very soon.
Its actually quite scary to think of it. Once he declines and mobility comes into effect, he would just playing and become a low post players with the passing ability of a PG and also able to distribute closer to the rim would make him an absolute monster.
Having the size&strength that allows him to easily play down low and with that ability to pass may be the reason why LBJ would oneday be considered as a better player than MJ. LBJ's effectiveness on the game should decline at a much older age.
Many people say LBJ is soft and doesn't have a killer instinct, I believe so too, however, I also believe that after nine seasons and 2 NBA championship rings, time would have matured LBJ enough to be ready to take his control of the game up to a new level.
I believe the race for greatness has just started. If, LBJ ends up winning 8 MVPs and 4 Rings at the end of his career, would the NBA fans in 2080 still think that MJ is the best player basketball wise?
Not too sure if I read that wrong or not, but Lebron has 4 MVPs
is the greatest player ever.
even magic doesnt agree with that ^
Lebron doesnt have a killer isntinct yet in his first ever playoff series he had a triple double in his first game and 2 game winners in that series. The whole "doesnt have a killer instinct" is kindof stupid.
Not to hate on Lebron or anything, I've seen him take over games every once in a while but how Jordan did it was incredible. It's not just hitting game winners, it's completely taking over the game and making it your game, maybe it's the lack of huge scoring outbursts that make me feel like he doesn't take over enough but whenever I look at old Jordan games it has a completely different feel. Lebron just seems to be less aggressive and sometimes even passive when his team is losing.
10 years in MJ and LeBron are about equal. 3 rings for Jordan, 2 for LeBron (but 3 straight Finals and 4 Finals total), 3 MVP's for both, 3 Finals MVP's for Jordan, 2 for LeBron. 2 Olympic golds for LeBron, 2 for MJ.
Jordan's 11th season was 1995-1996 where he went on another tear: 72 win season, MVP, title and Finals MVP. Years 12, 13, and 14 were just as good for MJ.
The next three years or four years will be critical for LeBron. So far he is on track, but Jordan's 11-14 years were awesome.
lebron has 4 mvps
with derrick rose sneaking one right in the middle of those.
here's the thing, with every generation there is a best player. as a fan, generally fans roll with the best player they have seen that is usually the favorite of the best players within the generation(s) they have seen. if you talk to someon who is really really old school, say 60 years old or something, i often hear oscar robertson is the greatest player to ever live still. oscar robertson i'm no doubting was a great player and i don't doubt he was one of the smoothest players to ever play. i'm sure he could play in the game today and be great if he were in his prime. he also has only 1 championship ring in which he had a young kareem to pair up with in a depleted league, before the merger! you can say the same thing about kareem for vice versa. he has 6 rings. he got 1 with the big o and 5 with magic johnson. magic johnson had a nice supporting cast to get all of his rings. bird had a nice supporting cast to get his. moses malone had a great supporting cast to get his. jordan's supporting cast was good, maybe not as good as magic or bird's, but you can also say he had arguably the best coach in the modern day era. you can make similar debates for duncan and kobe. lebron you can say needed to build a super team to get his. i guess what i'm saying is you can make a case for many. but to overtake a fairly recent legend, in this case michael jordan, lebron has to definitively be better than michael jordan in order for say an above 30ish age group will crown lebron better than jordan. say around 25ish or younger don't know the jordan era as well as the generation before and are just going by hearsay. that younger generation will probably roll with lebron considered as the best ever. now this isn't always the case, but the general consensus of course. that's my take on best player ever. oh and if the best player is your favorite player or on your favorite team, it means it is probably that much harder to consider another player taking over that player as being considered the best. reality is though, if we rewrite history in the nba in so many ways, there are so many different players you may more consider to be the best with a bunch of what ifs to. what if jordan were the 1st pick in the 1984 draft to the rockets and olajuwon was the second pick to the blazers? you have jordan/sampson instead, phill may not win all those championships, olajuwon reunites with drexler earlier in his career and history is re written. what if magic never got hurt in the 89' finals and didn't catch hiv? basketball history is rewritten and possibly the growth of medical research for aids. reggie lewis and len bias didn't pass away and larry bird's back allowed him another 5 years? could we be saying those celtic teams were the best ever making bird a bigger case? what if bill walton never had injury problems? could he be considered as good as kareem? what if orlando and golden state never made that draft day trade and shaq was paired with webber in the front court? what if tracy mcgrady and grant hill or tracy mcgrady and yao ming never had injury plagued seasons? what if michaelray richardson never got banned from drug abuse? or bernard king never got hurt? to be considered the best, everything has to fall in the right place for the right amount of time, during the right amount of time for that audience. i will say this though. i'm a lakers fan. my favorite player ever is magic johnson. nobody ever made the game more fun. i saw michael jordan play and even though it is very very close, even closer than i believe some people realize, jordan was definitively better than magic johnson. that was a tough thing for me to admit for a while. i can't say that about lebron vs jordan. heck, i put magic ahead of lebron still. lebron needs 1 more ring to tie bird for me. that should speak volumes. lebron has a chance to be the best ever, but the achievements posted woudn't justify that. sorry for the rambling, thank you for those listening.
I negged you because you need to learn how to start a new paragraph.
"One thing MJ had over LBJ was his education. The education he received before entering into the NBA and because of that, he had the ability to handle things more maturely and focus on basketball."
Don't forget the casino and golf course.
"After two MVP and NBA rings under his belt, LBJ would be hungry for a third and determined. Im sure post moves will be in his game very soon."
Aside from mentioning the two rings, it sounds like you haven't watched LeBron play basketball since 2011. He's had a post game in his arsenal for two years now.
"Many people say LBJ is soft and doesn't have a killer instinct, I believe so too, however, I also believe that after nine seasons and 2 NBA championship rings, time would have matured LBJ enough to be ready to take his control of the game up to a new level."
Same as before. Sorry, but watching some actual basketball instead of watching Skip Bayless would go a long way.
But...there's no show I despise more than First Take so take my post with a grain or two of salt.
I negged you based off of citing first take. That show is what is wrong with espn, they just do it for the attention it draws.
The whole debate about the greatest player of all time between these 2 is flawed in my opinion because people have said Lebron doesn't have the killer instinct when he had lost 2 final series. Why should he be ridiculed for that when Jordan couldn't even get his team to the finals until his 7th year. It seems we let Jordan slide more because his team was beaten in the conference finals against the Pistons in the 2 years prior to winning his 1st. But isn't getting to the finals more of an accomplishment than the Conference finals? Just seems like flawed logic to me.
I'll give LeBron a pass for his first Finals loss, but I can't give him a pass in his second. I just can't. The Heat were the favorites to win it and had a super team. Not only did the Heat lose, LeBron failed to be aggressive and play up to his capabilities. Dirk was the best player in that series.
Thank you! It's both comical and sad that Lebron fans simply gloss over his disastrous 2011 Finals performance. You simply cannot be the greatest player of all time if you completely disappear in the Finals when you have a more talented team and home court advantage. Not to mention his 2010 disappearing act in the final games against the Celtics.
Jordan under-performed in the '95 playoffs after a year and a half away from the game, and struggled some against the Sonics with Payton guarding him, but he still got the job done, and he never backed down from a challenge.
I think people take the mantle of "greatest ever" too lightly, when you look back on the greatest player ever's career, there shouldn't be these blatant examples of a player failing in big moments.
MIKE and Bron play to different games. Mike game is about scoring, while playmaking is Lebrons. They both are great at what they do but comparing them is to hard. Mike is more of a scoring player, lebron is a elite facillator that can score
Jordan is just a much better player. To me, LeBron isn't even in the top 5.
Jordan Pushed of!!!
I am not bitter
I can let it go any time I want
But i choose to hold on to my Hate!