Miami Heat -- Are they the big 3, or the big 2
Where does Chris Bosh actually stand right now as a 4 man in this league? There are absolutely 3 better 4 men then Chris Bosh:
After those 3 guys, you could make an arguement that he's in a group with Zach Randolph and LaMarcus Aldridge, and if its not too early, Blake Griffin.
I would probably take Bosh over Al Horford and Kevin Love.
If I'm not missing any big names, that put Chris Bosh definitely as a top 9 Power Forward in the league, probably somewhere between 4 and 7. Does that make him a superstar? I'd say no.
Therefore, does Miami really have a big 3? I'd say no.
What are your thoughts??
I know people on here including myself make fun of bosh but He performed well in the finals compared to what lebron did so I guess yeah i would say its a big 3 they are all allstars so its not like bosh is a player who just had one good season. Shaq is still pissed for chris bosh saying he could score all day in the paint if 3 seconds wasn't called against him. Shaq is known to not give people credit just look at dwight(he just now got some praise). In the end there is a big 3, now is bosh worth a max contract? now thats a whole different story.
They are definitely a big 3. Bosh played great in the finals and is going to be an Allstar for the next 5-6 years. Of course he isn't as good as Wade and James but who is?
Just because he's an all star and performed well in the finals doesn't give him superstar status. When you call the Miami Heat the Big 3, you are lumping him into the same category as Dwayne Wade and LeBron James. I just don't think he belongs in the same category. If they had signed Amare instead, maybe the conversation would be different.
How is Amare definitively better than Bosh? I agree he may be better, but its actually close considering how bad Amare's defense is and considering last year a lot of ppl had Bosh ahead of Amare.
Amare is a game changer. A difference maker. Chris Bosh was that, but on a really bad team. Amare was on a playoff team playing beside another star.
Why do you have to be considered a superstar to be apart of a big 3? Are Allen, Pierce, and Garnett superstars? No but they were considered a big 3. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli were a big 3 as well. Bosh has talent but he is just playing beside 2 of the best players in the league
It is all in how you see it, I suppose. I mean, Chris Bosh was never in the same arena as LeBron James or Dwyane Wade, but what does a "Big 3" even mean? To me, the Celtics had two players that stood out much more so than Ray Allen over his NBA career, but if they are called a "Big 3", than I think Chris Bosh can definitely hack it as well. Still, I do not know why this is made into such a huge deal. It is all on definition of what a "Big 3" is to begin with.
The fact is, the Heat arguably have the two best players at their position in the entire league, while there is no debating that Chris Bosh is a level below that. Still, he is an All-Star not just off of popularity or reputation, but the guy is one of the better PF's in the league. Say what you will about Pau Gasol, but Bosh played him incredibly well in their meetings. Dirk is obviously on another level above everyone, and while Amare had a far superior season, I see he and Bosh being fairly comparable, especially factoring in durability. Blake Griffin may be on the course of being a much better PF than Bosh, but he does not have his length or shooting ability from the mid range. LaMarcus Aldridge and Chris Bosh are incredibly similar, they usually play each other pretty well as they are old friends both training with each other and being from Texas. Love is not on Bosh's level in my opinion, and as well as Zach Randolph played, I still like Bosh over him as well. What does this prove? That Chris Bosh is a top PF, but his value as being a top player is debatable. Also, he is nowhere in the vicinity of the other players.
So, are the Heat a "Big 3"? I guess so, they have 3 perennial All-Stars, two of which might be in the equation for being the two best players in the world. My final thought is, why does what Shaq said surprise anyone? Shaq has every right to say what he did, it should be used as motivation for Chris Bosh and little past that. The fact that ESPN is running with this story means it is REALLY a slow news week. Dwyane Wade and LeBron James are superstars, Chris Bosh is a good player. He is still more than likely better than any other third option in the league, so if that does not count him as being part of the "Big 3", than I guess nothing will. The thing is, as we obviously saw, it takes more than 3 players to win a championship, always has, always will. They came close, but it is still a team game and that will need to be addressed if they hope for more future success. But, they do have three fantastic pieces, and I think they should indeed be in the mix for a ring for a nice while longer.
So mikeyv , you'll saying Paul Pierce has had a better career than Ray Allen?
Bosh isnt the best PF in the league, but that doesnt make the heat the "big 2." He's still an all-star caliber Power Forward in the shadow of Lebron and Wade. He still can put up 20-25 points a game, especially if James or Wade isnt playing well
You can call them the Big 3..Becuz you had 3 all stars coming 2gether..But everyone knows Lebron and Wade are 2 of the top 3 players in the league..Thats where that BIG 2 comes in..
Amare isnt that much better than Bosh..If you watch their games Bosh is the better all around player..Neither guys are great defenders.The only difference is Amare fools people into thinking he's a physical player with those ferocious dunks...But both he and Amare were never top 10 players,maybe top 12 or 15...
In a way i think Lebron going to Miami will hurt the way he will be viewed years from now..Even if he had remained in Cleveland and never won a ring,but had them winning over 60 games every year and finished his career with 5 or 6 MVP awards..It would've been alot easier then him if he never wins in Miami....
^^^ Good write up MikeyV! MJBrown Amare's team barely made the playoffs with a great start and a better supporting cast overall, pre-Melo, than Bosh has ever had. Amare had problems playing to his potential as the 2nd man with the Suns and Melo. I could actually see him having more problems adjusting his game as a third option, than Bosh did. They're both actually pretty close to each other with one not being that much better than the other.
Though I believe Amare has more potential to be much better than Bosh than he is right now
At the time that the big 3 in Boston were put together, all 3 players were playing at HOF caliber level. Maybe we're just splitting hairs here, and this is all semantics, but I feel like if you want to give the group of guys the title of being the big 3, they all have to be on the same level. There is no doubt that if Chris Paul, hypothetically, were to end up in New York, you could flip a coin on any given nite as to who the best player on that team is going to be. In Miami, Chris Bosh is never the best player on that team. He might have the best game of the 3 every once in a while, but he is never the best player on the team. I think that is why Boston had a legit big 3; if it ever happens in NY, they'd have a legit big 3. But in Miami, Chris Bosh is a perennial all-star, posted great numbers on a lousy team, and posted very good numbers as a third option on a great team. But he doesn't belong under the same umbrella as Wade and James. MikeyV, you might be right. Maybe the title really doesn't matter. Maybe we're just arguing with a construct made by the media.
they should be called the Big 0.
For sure Rudeboy. I think it is quite clear that Paul Pierce not only had a better career than Ray Allen, but was a better player than Ray Allen for a large portion of his career, which easily leads to the conclusion that Paul is better given that they played at the same time period. Paul Pierce is a much better All-Around player, and has easily been more valuable than Ray for their entire time playing together for the Celtics. I never remember thinking to myself that Ray Allen was a top 10 player in the league, and I thought that about Paul for years. Ray was a better shooter, but Paul was pretty much better at everything else.
Funny thing is, they have played the EXACT same number of play-off games for their career, and Paul's numbers are much better. Paul was able to get his own shot more effectively, he is a better defender and I think he worked with less than Ray did for most of his career. When the Celtics got Ray Allen, I do not think I thought at one time, "They got someone just as good as Paul Pierce". They got a good player, definite step up from what was there, but it was Paul's team. I think Paul has been better than Ray for years, and fans love of the 3 ball and Ray's shooting make people look past the fact that Paul is a better All-Around player. I think they are both Hall of Famer's, but I think that Paul Pierce has had the better career all things considered. Even with al of Ray's triples, Paul still has averaged 22 to his 20. I know three's are cool, and there has never been anyone who has scored as many as Ray, but at the end of the day, is a point not a point? Well, Paul put in more of those on average, and while his shot might not have looked as nice as Ray Allen's, the guys game made him the better player.
Absolutely agree. I'm not going to say Ray Allen has been a one dimension player for his whole career, but Paul Pierce means so much more to a winning basketball team than what you see on the stats sheet.
James and Wade are superstars, but Bosh is an all-star, but they are still the big three
Bird, Mchale, and Parish- Bird was the only MegaStar of this group but Mchale and Parish were both great hall of fame players-Big Three.
Magic, Kareem, Worthy,- I dont think Worthy was in the same category as Magic and Kareem but he was still a heck of player, but they were still the big three.
Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin- Run Tmc- Hardaway and Mullin were the bigger names, but no one will argue that Mitch wasnt a star in his own right- Big Three
Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Detlet Schrempf- Kemp and Payton were superstars, but Detlet was a 3time all-star and a good player with Kemp and Payton- Big Three
Im not a fan of Bosh but he is too much of a key player for the Heat not to be considered part of the big three.
With all due respect, Kevin McHale was an absolute superstar. If he played in todays league, he'd be unguardable at the 4 spot. His combination of skill and physicality is something we rarely see today.
Bosh isn't a great fit to be playing with two perimeter players like Wade and Lebron, so you have to cut him some slack. He was sort of a franchise level player in Toronto (24 points per game, nearly 11 rebounds). Of course he took a hit in his stats playing with Wade and Lebron, but everyone expected that. In fact, some people said that signing Bosh instead of taking that $16 million a year and getting better roll players probably cost the Heat the championship. They will never get full value out of Bosh because he isn't going to touch the ball enough. Not his fault, Wade and Lebron are just better than him (like they are just about everyone else in the league) so you want them doing their things.
I feel that Bosh was extremely consistant throughout the year. He did a great job to play along side two ball dominant guys like that. As the Heat's success rate goes up he will get more credit. He came up big in some games when the other two didnt so I would say yes, he is part of the big 3.
Mchale was a beast, but he was not with Bird, Magic, Michael. Notice I called bird a MEGASTAR.Bird name was bigger and Bird was more marketable. Mchale was a superstar I agree. But people were arguing that Bosh was not on wade and Lebron's level, true. But Mchale and Parish were not on Bird level, but they still were the Big Three.
Fair enough. Obviously Bird is one of the top 5 or 10 best players of all time. But I'd put McHale closer to Bird, then Bosh to Wade or James. Notice that all 3 Celtics are HOF. Do you see Bosh ever achieving that status?
Run TMC isn't a great example of a big 3. They were just a whole lotta fun to watch.
Maybe the thing that bothers me the most is that this threesome was given so much hype that we were supposed to believe that they were all supposed to play like superstars all the time, and they certainly didn't.
Bosh is a legit all-star and a good player. He's not necessarily a franchise player on a legit contender. He's more of a secondary option on a great team or "the man" on a 30ish win team (like Pau Gasol).
So, it's a Big Three with two superstars and an all-star. The problem is that Wade and LeBron don't complement each other that well. Maybe they can get it together this year. I don't think Bosh is the problem. He can score some around the basket and on mid-range jumpers and can rebound some. The problem is that the Heat don't have a legit center to give them a second rebounder and scorer inside.
Not sure we have seen a Big Three with three superstars in awhile. You might have to go back to the LA Lakers with Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, and Elgin Baylor. Those teams went to a lot of Finals but the Lakers didn't win until Elgin Baylor retired.
The old Bulls teams of Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman were a "Big Three" with two superstars (including the best player in the league) and another all-star caliber talent (Rodman). But, those guys complemented each other better. Jordan was the ALPHA DOG. Pippen was the 2nd option and a very good ball handler and passer and could also score 20 a game. Rodman was the best rebounder in the league, hustled, and got into opponents' heads. Plus, all three played awesome defense and each had won championships before.
The Miami Heat have a big three, but they need an inside enforcer and some more help off the bench. They also need to figure out who the alpha dog is. LeBron also needs to work on a low post game.
I dont know if Bosh will get to the Hall of Fame. I mean he is already like a 5-6 time all-star so thats a step. And if Miami string together a few titles, then I dont see why not. I agree Mchale was Closer to Bird than Bosh is to Wade and Lebron.
Run TMC was alot fun to watch, but those guys could play as well. Mullin was a dream teamer, Timmy was an all-star and Mitch could get 20 a night.
I would be incredibly intrigued to see your player rankings. You were constantly saying you did not think Dirk was top 50, but you know me, I like to know who you take over a person. Well, I clearly just stated I take Paul over Ray, and if you want, I will post my top 50 players with yours man. I am just interested to see your take on this, as I think it could lead to a pretty fun debate. Nonetheless, I think Paul Pierce has had a better career than Ray Allen and that Dirk Nowitzki is easily a top 50 player (though I am pretty sure you cooled off of that one, but I remember these things man, lol). LOL, @ your question getting as many points as my previous or after response as of 3:45.
Its most definitely the big 3 any one who watched the Heat realized how valuable he was when he was on the court. When Lebron and Wade were out there by themselves the team did not run as cohesively. I agree Lebron and Wade aren't the best fit, but they're so talented and the chemistry will only get better. Lebron needs to go to the post more often, he actually does have a post game according to the numbers, and Wade just needs to improve his jumpshot. I expect the big 3 to look much better next year. Chris Bosh is not on the level of Wade and Lebron, but he's good enough, talented enough, and valuable enough to the team to be included thus its the big 3
Bosh is onthe same level as Gasol imo. Better than Amare. dirk is ahead of em all at the 4 right now.
The Heat lost, because the best player on the court in the Finals played for the Mavs. And Jason Terry really went off. The Heat's Big Three ran into a better player and a deeper team who hit the big shots they needed to hit.
I actually think that the Heat are built more for the playoffs than the regular season. I picked the Heat over the Lakers in the Finals, and I thought that the Bulls reminded me too much of LeBron's Cavs (one superstar surrounded by a bunch of role players and no other real playmakers).
I think Mario Chalmers is a really good player and should start for the whole year. Then they need to upgrade at center (I think that Joel Anthony is better as a 20 minute guy off the bench), as well as getting a scorer off the bench. Mike Miller was a big dissapointment which really hurt. Haslem missed a ton of time but played really well when he came back. Chalmers is a decent 4th option and I like Haslem off the bench as a 6th man or 7th man, but they need a better center and one more bench scorer.
I still think the Heat are better than the Bulls and are the best team in the East, and probably the league, going into next year. Depending on who the Mavs resign they will be a contender as will the Thunder. I think that we could still see a Heat/Lakers Finals in 2012, unless the Mavs have one more championship run left in them or if the Thunder's Big Three of Durant, Westbrook, and Harden really starts to gel.
You said bosh is definitly top 9 for his position and probably between 4 and 7. That can't be said for Boston's "Big 3".
Their is only one requirement for a big 3, have 3 good players.
Their a "Big 3", problem is their game don't quite complement one another. You have 2 ball dominant wing player, which leaves Bosh at lost or forgotten at times.
off if they had a strong 5, or a solid 8.
bosh is a great player no doubt...not a superstar, but we all know that
he at times struggled to find a niche in the offense with bron and wade... like mess.eee said, 2 ball dominant wings
he was accumstomed to having the ball in his hands so often in toronto
bosh is a hell of a talent without question and played good in the finals... shaq is wrong!!!
miami is a BIG 3
I don't think it really matters, but they're definitely a BIG three in my opinion.
Just because Chris Bosh isn't a superstar (there are only a handfull or so of true superstars in the league) doesn't mean he isn't worthy enough to be included. After Dirk Nowitzki, I think the way you arrange that power forward list is up for debate and Bosh is right there with Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Lamarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin.
I think it's funny because most people considered the Boston trio a BIG three right away. We all know Kevin Garnett was a supestar. However, I don't think people just automatically considered Paul Pierce and Ray Allen hands down superstars... Especially Allen. Bosh is more elite at his position than Allen was in my opinion. I don't remember anybody calling them the BIG one or BIG two. The reason is because people respected them (which was well deserved).
This is all about dislike towards the Heat and Bosh is an easy target. IF you take out the Decision, the celebration in Miami, arrogant attitudes/quotes, etc... And replace them with respectful and humble things, I don't even think this is a topic of discussion.
LOL this is such a dumb argument. Yall are just arguing to argue.
I know we all like to bash Bosh, but give the man credit. He is among the 50 best players on the planet right now. He can lead a mediocore team to the playoffs while getting 23 and 10. He doesn't complain, he tries to sacrifice for the better of the team, and the bottom line is that this man is a perenial All Star, and deserves credit. He might be behind Pau, Dirk, and Amare, but if you replace Bosh with Pau during the 08-10 playoff run, do you really think it hurts the Lakers tremendously? He is not a Superstar, he might not even be a star. But I can confidently say that he is an All Star, and will be for years to come.
One thing I noticed is that he took way too many Jumpshots for Miami during the season. I think they shoudl try to feed him the ball in the post, try to have an Inside outside sort of game. If he can get going and establish himself as an elite post player, which I think he can with hard work, he gets doubled. What happens when he gets doubled? A perimeter player is open. What happens when a perimeter player is open? A guy like Mike Miller can drill the three, or it might open up driving lanes for D Wade, and Lebron.
I also think that they should try to involve Mike Miller into the offense more. Him and James Jones are vital components to their success. I was so mad that Spolstra didn't even try to get him in in the Finals. If those two can stretch the floor, than that opens up so many more dimensions of Miami's offense. That allows Wade and Lebron to beat defenders off the dribble, allows guys to post up without being doubled, and it allows them to space the floor better.
I hope Spolstra comes up with a different type of Offensive Strategy, cause most of their offense revolves around Lebron and Wade Isos, which is not effective if you have Lebron bricking fadeaway 30 footers. I think they shoudl implement some variation of the flex, cause what they need is better off ball movement. I remember watching some their games and their offense at many moments during the game looks stagmented, and they space terribly, and no one is moving. If you set off ball screen, and cut and try to do things away from the ball, It can really open things up.